Boycott US / Buy EU

[Will]

So this popped up in my Reddit feed a while back and I ended up spending quite a bit of time thinking about it, with all the new Trump tariffs it seems like a good time to discuss it. Essentially the premise is that with this and the other madness Trump is up to plus the fact we’ve become so reliant on the US it’s time to be more mindful about putting our money and time with things more closely aligned to us. There is a similar movement for buying from the UK though I don’t see much of a difference between EU/UK here.

Anyone else been keeping up with it? What are your thoughts? Generally I think I’m in support of it, and will try to move away from US products and services where I’m able to.

I’ve long been trying to keep my data out of the hands of “big tech” - probably relying on Apple too much and their privacy first stance. Until late last year I’d deactivated Facebook but had to get back on it due to so much school stuff going through it. As of last week I’ve deactivated everything with them again and can’t see myself going back.

On my commute this morning they were listing off everything that originates in the US and basically concluded that it’s so difficult to boycott you may as well not bother. I think I see it more as a stepped process, where possible buy EU/UK. Over time you can change your habits bit by bit and get to a good place with this.

Anyone else making an effort with this?

Edited Thursday at 09:32 AM by Will
Spacing weird on mobile posts

[Hero-of-Time]

Honestly, this should have happened after the pandemic when it was highlighted just how things were being made elsewhere and we couldnt get them into the country.

As a country, we should have started to rely more and more on British products and started bringing everything back in house. Instead we kinda went the other way and closed down more industries and factories and sourced it out to countries with cheap/slave labour. 

As for the question at hand, it's like a lot of these types of problems, people do right by trying to make changes but it's very hard to do in practice. I mean, look how much electronic stuff is made in China, in no doubt very poor working conditions and little pay, but we are happy enough to continue to buy it.

[Will]

31 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

As for the question at hand, it's like a lot of these types of problems, people do right by trying to make changes but it's very hard to do in practice. I mean, look how much electronic stuff is made in China, in no doubt very poor working conditions and little pay, but we are happy enough to continue to buy it.

Yeah I think that is very much the key issue, and one I think will be the most difficult to deal with. We're probably too far gone to expect things like that to come back but we can buy things that are more friendly to the cause. I'm seriously considering a Fairphone next time I need to upgrade and I think that sort of thing is a good move in the right direction.

What I do wish we'd do here is be more protective of our public industries. We should be self-reliant on things like power, transport, food (to the extent its possible) but as you say, seem to outsource the lot of it. I think a lot could be done if we underpinned our mass-consumer/free market desires with a very socialist approach to the fundamentals.

[Julius]

25 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Honestly, this should have happened after the pandemic when it was highlighted just how things were being made elsewhere and we couldn't get them into the country.

As a country, we should have started to rely more and more on British products and started bringing everything back in house. Instead we kinda went the other way and closed down more industries and factories and sourced it out to countries with cheap/slave labour. 

Agreed. I thought this was one of the falsehoods Brexit was supposed to be built on, bringing back our factories and industries and creating new jobs, but it feels like it's gone even further the other way – and everything is more expensive in a post-COVID world. 

Not to derail the thread with Brexit talk, but Brexit or not, this is something we should've been looking to do anyways 

But yeah, as for your question @Will, I think for me I might have a bit of a read up on things, but ultimately like H-o-T says, it's something difficult to do in practice, though I do think a good number of these have been highlighted over the last year and a half or so with people boycotting certain companies over what was going on in Palestine.

Personally, I struggle to see it much differently to how I view boycotting some games (because of crunch, bigoted views of licensors, etc.) – where you can do it and it suits your day-to-day needs, in this case I guess in a way which is cost effective more than ever given the rising cost of living, great; but otherwise, depending on your circumstances and maybe product preferences, I think it's fine to continue as you are as and where you see fit. 

I suppose a difference here, too, compared to my examples of games, is just visibility and conversation – this is honestly the first I'm even hearing of this, whereas comparable boycotts in the gaming space seem like all-encompassing pieces of news when they happen.

Now that I'm aware, though, it's something which I imagine will at least make me second guess and want to check things for a time – even if it's just out of curiosity more so than a want to take action. 

[Will]

1 minute ago, Julius said:

people boycotting certain companies over what was going on in Palestine.

My wife hates me when we do the shopping and I go through all of the avocados to find the acceptable ones.

2 minutes ago, Julius said:

Personally, I struggle to see it much differently to how I view boycotting some games (because of crunch, bigoted views of licensors, etc.) – where you can do it and it suits your day-to-day needs, in this case I guess in a way which is cost effective more than ever given the rising cost of living, great; but otherwise, depending on your circumstances and maybe product preferences, I think it's fine to continue as you are as and where you see fit. 

Yeah I totally agree on this. I think its just about being more aware and making changes where it makes sense to you. If everyone just considers it a little, and makes a 5% change then it adds up to a huge swing overall.

3 minutes ago, Julius said:

I suppose a difference here, too, compared to my examples of games, is just visibility and conversation – this is honestly the first I'm even hearing of this, whereas comparable boycotts in the gaming space seem like all-encompassing pieces of news when they happen.

I guess it comes down to interests and what media you look at. I'd expect people here to be way more clued up on games than your average person who probably has no idea about those game boycotts. Since I started having a long commute twice a week I find I'm a lot more clued up on events simply because I listen to the news for a lot longer than I did three months ago.

[Hero-of-Time]

16 minutes ago, Julius said:

 

Personally, I struggle to see it much differently to how I view boycotting some games (because of crunch, bigoted views of licensors, etc.) – where you can do it and it suits your day-to-day needs, in this case I guess in a way which is cost effective more than ever given the rising cost of living, great; but otherwise, depending on your circumstances and maybe product preferences, I think it's fine to continue as you are as and where you see fit. 

 

This is a good point. It's easy to take the moral high ground when it's a luxury purchase but when it's part of your everyday needs, that's when it becomes more difficult. Even more so now, what with everything constantly going up in price. There are so many families living on the breadline, by paycheck to paycheck or even losing their homes. It's ridiculous that it's even got to this.

[sumo73]

I'm not in favour of boycotting things unless I hold a strong view about it. I get it, people especially on Reddit hate Trump but to boycott American companies, what real difference will that make unless it is done with a large number of people. People are quite happy to moralise about America but frequently turn a blind eye to various parts of the world where people are forced into slave labour and work under very harsh conditions. I would like people to take a wider view on this rather than signal on Reddit to farm for up points.

From a UK point of view what exactly do we produce apart being a largely service lead industry? The government wants to carve up the countryside to make way for more housing (we do need more housing) but at the cost of reducing more farm land meaning we will import more food. Everything just feels like short term answers but they won't fix long term issues. We already have a government that wants to be a leader in A.I, the very thing that I believe will damage many jobs. We look to America for everything and forget the mess right in front of our eyes. It's been more expedient and quicker just to buy everything from the middle kingdom. Even if we bought more from the E.U can we be sure it's not dropped shipped from somewhere else? The last question is why can't we make and buy it from here?

[Hero-of-Time]

19 minutes ago, sumo73 said:

The last question is why can't we make and buy it from here?

It's mainly down to cost. Businesses want higher profits and you aren't going to get that in a country where you have things like workers rights, a minimum wage etc. You ship or sell the business to the likes of India or China and you bypass these things. Raw materials cost more over here as well.

For example, I work for a company and we do R&D work and make synthetic diamonds. The cost of various chemical powders and other materials we need to do this is crazy over here in the UK. Go on places like AliExpress and you can get it for a fraction of the price from China. Surprisingly, their customer service is far more responsive and caring compared to companies I've used in the UK. 

I don't use the sites myself but many use the likes of Temu or Shein for the same reason when buying personal goods. The majority don't think or want to think of the ethical side of things as long as they are saving money. Given the way the economy is, I honestly can't blame for just wanting to get theirs.

[sumo73]

22 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It's mainly down to cost. Businesses want higher profits and you aren't going to get that in a country where you have things like workers rights, a minimum wage etc. You ship or sell the business to the likes of India or China and you bypass these things. Raw materials cost more over here as well.

For example, I work for a company and we do R&D work and make synthetic diamonds. The cost of various chemical powders and other materials we need to do this is crazy over here in the UK. Go on places like AliExpress and you can get it for a fraction of the price from China. Surprisingly, their customer service is far more responsive and caring compared to companies I've used in the UK. 

I don't use the sites myself but many use the likes of Temu or Shein for the same reason when buying personal goods. The majority don't think or want to think of the ethical side of things as long as they are saving money. Given the way the economy is, I honestly can't blame for just wanting to get theirs.

I should have clearer, the question was meant as a rhetorical question and 'the middle kingdom'=China. However, it's interesting that you mention customer service which is more responsive and caring than the UK companies that you have used. If the UK doesn't learn from this, it will lose out further.

Edited 14 hours ago by sumo73

[Hero-of-Time]

Just now, sumo73 said:

However, it's interesting that you mention customer service which is more responsive and caring than the UK companies that you have used. If the UK doesn't learn from this, it will lose out further.

It's just from my own experience but yeah, that has defiantly been the case. The amount of times I've sent emails to UK based companies about various things and heard nothing back is ridiculous. Makes me wonder how these places stay in business. Whereas the companies I've dealt with in China have always been prompt and polite.

[Will]

2 hours ago, sumo73 said:

I'm not in favour of boycotting things unless I hold a strong view about it. I get it, people especially on Reddit hate Trump but to boycott American companies, what real difference will that make unless it is done with a large number of people.

I think the main thing is to support local as much as possible. Particularly with tech we’ve sort of allowed American companies to own everything about our digital lives and maybe that’s not the best thing for us? I agree you need a large number of people to make a difference but it starts with a few considered actions and grows from there.

2 hours ago, sumo73 said:

People are quite happy to moralise about America but frequently turn a blind eye to various parts of the world where people are forced into slave labour and work under very harsh conditions. I would like people to take a wider view on this rather than signal on Reddit to farm for up points.

You’re absolutely right, but I would imagine there is a high amount of overlap between those groups of people. It always made me laugh when people said we should use Brexit as a chance to be more like Singapore without having any idea of what allows Singapore to be Singapore.

2 hours ago, sumo73 said:

The government wants to carve up the countryside to make way for more housing (we do need more housing) but at the cost of reducing more farm land meaning we will import more food.

Is this actually a thing? I honestly don’t know enough about housing policy of the current government but certainly hadn’t heard they wanted to reduce farmland for housing. I think we’re way too protective over a lot of areas and should be forcing progressive development a lot more than we do.

2 hours ago, sumo73 said:

We already have a government that wants to be a leader in A.I, the very thing that I believe will damage many jobs.

It will damage some jobs and eliminate some jobs, but it will also create jobs. Isn’t it better that we create those jobs here rather than letting someone elsewhere take them? AI is going to advance whether we like it or not.

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I don't use the sites myself but many use the likes of Temu or Shein for the same reason when buying personal goods. The majority don't think or want to think of the ethical side of things as long as they are saving money. Given the way the economy is, I honestly can't blame for just wanting to get theirs.

Yeah it’s totally understandable, often being able to protest anything means you’re coming from a privileged position. When everything is so expensive getting ‘good enough’ for cheap is going to entice a lot of people to use them regardless of the hidden ‘cost’ in other areas.

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It's just from my own experience but yeah, that has defiantly been the case. The amount of times I've sent emails to UK based companies about various things and heard nothing back is ridiculous. Makes me wonder how these places stay in business. Whereas the companies I've dealt with in China have always been prompt and polite.

Definitely my experience too. I dread having to deal with anything in the UK as I know it’s going to be a complete pain and it will be handled by people utterly uninterested in solving the issues. Totally the opposite with Chinese companies, they’ll bend over backwards to ensure things are sorted as you expect them.

[bob]

6 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It's just from my own experience but yeah, that has defiantly been the case. The amount of times I've sent emails to UK based companies about various things and heard nothing back is ridiculous. Makes me wonder how these places stay in business. Whereas the companies I've dealt with in China have always been prompt and polite.

We occasionally get prototype stuff manufactured at work, and we've dabbled with some Chinese companies. You can get the exact same part sent over from China, usually quicker, and for about a quarter of the cost of getting it done locally (one company offered to make us the first few parts for FREE). Obviously if there's anything wrong or if you need a quick mod, you can't do anything, but it's easy to see why people will turn to Chinese companies.