Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Dcubed]

12 minutes ago, Jimbob said:

This leak was different, this one not only leaked out the next 10 years of Insomniac games but also leaked out personal information about their employees.  So for some journalism outlets not reporting on it, i respect it.  As Hero of Time said, people are just getting obsessed with leaks these days.  Look at the GTA VI leak a couple of weeks ago, people were desperate for information on the game.  People will look anywhere for information these days

Piss off with that.  The Capcom Ransomware leak and the Nintendo Gigaleak did the same thing, didn't stop everyone from reporting on it.

Nobody is asking the likes of Gamespot to post private emails and personal data.  But they fundamentally have a duty to report on the myriad of newsworthy information coming out of this leak.  The only reason why they're not doing it is because they're scared of the repurcussions and because they want to protect their friends who work at Sony/Insomniac.  It's nepotistic bullshit.

They are fundamentally failing at their job.  And if they're hoping that their nepotistic grandstanding is going to help protect their friends? They're sorely mistaken, as it's going to get widely reported by forum posters and Youtubers who are now doing their job for them; so they're fundamentally failing at protecting their friends too!

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

1 minute ago, Dcubed said:

They are fundamentally failing at their job.

Are they though? Who decides what they should be reporting on? For example, as much as I dislike the site, Nintendolife rarely report on Nintendo Direct leaks. Are they failing at their job? Same goes for State of Play and Push Square. What about the whole Harry Potter game issue. Many didn't review or even discuss the game. Are they doing a disservice to their readership by shunning that?

I think it's up to the site management whether or not they want to report on. It's not as if the information isn't available elsewhere for those wishing to look for it. 

I think what some outlets have done by saying that there has been a ransomware attack and data has been stolen, was the best course of action. It's informed people whats happened and allowed them to go look for information themselves should they choose to do so.

[Dcubed]

14 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Are they though? Who decides what they should be reporting on? For example, as much as I dislike the site, Nintendolife rarely report on Nintendo Direct leaks. Are they failing at their job? Same goes for State of Play and Push Square. What about the whole Harry Potter game issue. Many didn't review or even discuss the game. Are they doing a disservice to their readership by shunning that?

One would think that an outlet that purports to report generalist gaming news would deem a 10 year Marvel/Sony exclusivity deal to be newsworthy, especially when we know how much percentage margins and budgetary amounts are involved.  Hardly the same thing as choosing not to spoil a gaming hype event (or even hiding it behind a spoiler warning jump, like what sites should be doing if they just want to be PR hype men).

Don't purport to be a legitimate news outlet if you don't want to report news.

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I think it's up to the site management whether or not they want to report on. It's not as if the information isn't available elsewhere for those wishing to look for it. 

I think what some outlets have done by saying that there has been a ransomware attack and data has been stolen, was the best course of action. It's informed people whats happened and allowed them to go look for information themselves should they choose to do so.

Then report where you can find the information then.  Even the most tacky and repulsive of tabloid news outlets will cite their sources.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

I honestly don't know why you're getting all bent out of shape with all of this, Dcubed. I know you have some weird beef with Sony  and have been outspoken about them in the past, hence you getting a ban on Fami , but does any of this have any meaningful impact in your life? For some bizarre reason you seem to be taking it quite personally, when all it comes down to is a decision to not report on something made by some people you've even met. 

[Dcubed]

Nothing to do with Sony, I just hate seeing blatant nepotism on display and such two-faced BS; especially after these same outlets were only too happy to post about Capcom, Rockstar, CDPR and Nintendo when the same thing happened to them.

Oh, and I didn’t get a ban on Fami because I had a pop at Sony, ironically, I got a ban because I had a pop at Nintendo  (only was a temp ban, I just choose not to post there anymore because the discourse just isn’t interesting.  I’m not interested in a Nintendo circle jerk).

[Dcubed]

Here's an example of good reporting from Kotaku...

https://kotaku.com/what-hacked-files-tell-us-about-the-studio-behind-spide-1851115233

Fascinating stuff.  Seems like Insomniac are in the firing line for their skyrocketing budgets and Sony want some significant headcount reductions (between 50-75 people).  Sounds like even Insomniac themselves don't feel that the massive 3x budget increase of Spiderman 2 over the first game was worth it (needing 7 million copies sold just to break even is insane!).

Also sounds like Sony are planning to close one of their Playstation development studios... (“there will be one studio closure.”).  Wonder who could be on the chopping block? I can't imagine that it'd be one that they acquired just recently, so my guess is that Bend Studio isn't long for this world.

Now THAT'S newsworthy.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

Yeah, this is just crazy stuff. Needing 7 million sales just to break even is ridiculous. Surely the AAA space can't keep going on the way it is? I mean, 1 flop and that's your studio done for.

[Hero-of-Time]

6 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Also sounds like Sony are planning to close one of their Playstation development studios... (“there will be one studio closure.”).  Wonder who could be on the chopping block? I can't imagine that it'd be one that they acquired just recently, so my guess is that Bend Studio isn't long for this world.

Sounds like cuts are being made across all their studios. I say they should close Naughty Dog. No recent new output and a recently cancelled game. Makes sense.

The reporting here could be seen as doing damage though. Was there any hint of these cuts happening yet? If not, then the people who work for these studios will be reading these reports and fearing for their jobs. Not a great way to feel before Christmas. On the other hand, some may appreciate the heads up and start questioning management what is going on.

[Dcubed]

9 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Yeah, this is just crazy stuff. Needing 7 million sales just to break even is ridiculous. Surely the AAA space can't keep going on the way it is? I mean, 1 flop and that's your studio done for.

It's bonkers isn't it? There's no way this is sustainable.

It's not hard to see why Jim Ryan was pushing for recurrent GAAS revenue, but surely the ultimate answer is to curtail these budgets?  It's just like Ted Price himself said, "is 3x the investment in [Spider-Man 2] evident to anyone who plays the game?” No it bloody isn't!

Cut your budgets, reduce your scope, reduce your graphic fidelity, get games out in 2-3 years instead of 5-6.  Nobody cares if they can't see each individual pore and body hair on your character models; they just wanna swing around as Spiderman like in the old PS2/GCN/Xbox game!

Like, what's happened with Naughty Dog is crazy.  4 years of development work and potentially $100-200 million just down the toilet... and now they'll be lucky to get a single PS5 game out for the entire generation! This has to stop!

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Sounds like cuts are being made across all their studios. I say they should close Naughty Dog. No recent new output and a recently cancelled game. Makes sense.

The reporting here could be seen as doing damage though. Was there any hint of these cuts happening yet? If not, then the people who work for these studios will be reading these reports and fearing for their jobs. Not a great way to feel before Christmas. On the other hand, some may appreciate the heads up and start questioning management what is going on.

 

Not publicly at least.  But I can imagine that Sony's other studios are being forced to make cuts to pay for the sins of Naughty Dog... that's a huge amount of money and time just thrown away.

It's also quite shocking to see how small a margin that they're even making on their first party titles.  Sony do have some legitimate megahits now that can seriously give Nintendo's own first party productions a run for their money (both in terms of sales power and critical appeal), but they're only making ROI margins of around 40-60% at best... nowhere near as much as you would expect.

They really are making most of their money off of 3rd party microtransaction royalities.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

It's bonkers isn't it? There's no way this is sustainable.

It's not hard to see why Jim Ryan was pushing for recurrent GAAS revenue, but surely the ultimate answer is to curtail these budgets?  It's just like Ted Price himself said, "is 3x the investment in [Spider-Man 2] evident to anyone who plays the game?” No it bloody isn't!

Cut your budgets, reduce your scope, reduce your graphic fidelity, get games out in 2-3 years instead of 5-6.  Nobody cares if they can't see each individual pore and body hair on your character models; they just wanna swing around as Spiderman like in the old PS2/GCN/Xbox game!

Like, what's happened with Naughty Dog is crazy.  4 years of development work and potentially $100-200 million just down the toilet... and now they'll be lucky to get a single PS5 game out for the entire generation! This has to stop!

All of this here is what Shawn Layden warned about and wanted changing. Iwata warned everyone back in the Wii generation that this would happen as well. 

What's hilarious is that both Sony and MS build these high end machines but rarely are they fully utilised. How many games can even run at a locked 60FPS? It's madness that they keep pushing for more power.

[Dcubed]

10 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

All of this here is what Shawn Layden warned about and wanted changing. Iwata warned everyone back in the Wii generation that this would happen as well. 

What's hilarious is that both Sony and MS build these high end machines but rarely are they fully utilised. How many games can even run at a locked 60FPS? It's madness that they keep pushing for more power.

They should just be lowering the graphical fidelity and letting the consoles just run the games at 4k 60FPS.  That's what they sold these consoles on.  Stop increasing the focus on graphical fidelity!  Nobody is forcing you to keep pouring more and more manpower and money into shiner graphics; the most popular games are rarely the most graphically intensive ones anyway.  We live in a world where stuff like Vampire Survivors can sell over 10 million copies and literally look like a bootleg Mega Drive game.

Also, the average selling prices of their games are quite low too... averaging around $30 or so going by the leaks.  They're probably being too aggressive with discounting their games as well (and ironically not agressive enough with their pricing on PC, or release timing for that matter).  It's all well and good selling 10 million copies, but if you're only selling most of those at an average price of $30 on discount? You may as well have sold only 5 million at full price.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

Reading the PS thread on Era and some are suggesting that if a studio is getting closed down then Media Molocule has to be high on the list. Gotta agree with that guess. Their games aren't big sellers and Dreams seemed to have be a big flop for them, especially given how long it took to develop.

[Sheikah]

14 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Speaking of sales lost due to PS+, this information comes from the hacked documents.

Insomniac asked that Ratchet was kept off the service for as long as possible.

This is exactly why subscription services are causing long-term damage and its no wonder Sony doesn't want to add their games to PS+.

Horizon Forbidden West is a great example. Once it hit PS+ it's trade in/sell value plummeted, as did the cost of a retail copy. You have that, along with people no longer needing to buy it, meaning the sales will flatline. 

The question is whether or not there was an increase in subscribers and if so, was it enough to offset the loss of physical sales.

I honestly hate how Game Pass/Microsoft have devalued gaming but as long as people get to play their games for "free" who cares, right? 

It's all very interesting and it's to be expected that game sales drop massively once it goes onto the subscription service, but we don't have the information to know if it's causing "damage", per se. We certainly know from these graphs that "retail purchases" go down once it goes on Plus, like you'd expect. But they wouldn't be putting these games onto the subscription if it was purely a bad thing for their profit margins - they must surely be seeing a return in terms of new Plus subscriptions, new console buyers, etc. Like I say, without that information it's hard to tell if it's hurting the industry. All we see here is that they want to hold off putting the game on Plus as long as possible to maximise sales before it becomes included in the sub. Have their cake and eat it, so to speak.

I do think that Microsoft are hurting the industry (or at least themselves) by putting games onto the subscription at day 1. I just don't see them making anywhere near the profit by doing this, especially with all the workarounds for ludicrously cheap (or short duration) Game Pass subs. Plenty of people cheesing the system to get Starfield or whatever the latest blockbuster is for far cheaper than a game should normally cost.

In unrelated news, I just saw that the PS5 hit 50 million consoles sold, less than a week behind the PS4 in terms of reaching this milestone. I know this discussion popped up recently that console gaming was deteriorating in popularity, and I think this statistic really puts this idea to bed. Given the huge shortage issues the PS5 had relative to the PS4 over the last few years this is essentially proof the PS5 would be way out ahead if supply was unrestricted.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Sheikah

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

 

In unrelated news, I just saw that the PS5 hit 50 million consoles sold, less than a week behind the PS4 in terms of this milestone. I know this discussion popped up recently that console gaming was deteriorating in popularity, and I think this statistic really puts this idea to bed. Given the huge shortage issues the PS5 had relative to the PS4 this is essentially proof the PS5 would be way out ahead if supply was unrestricted.

Indeed. Plus the PS5 is more expensive than the PS4 and only recently got a price cut. The PS4 dropped in price a couple of years into its life.

I would have loved to have seen what numbers the PS5 would have done if not for supply issues/pandemic.

[Sheikah]

1 minute ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Indeed. Plus the PS5 is more expensive than the PS4 and only recently got a price cut. The PS4 dropped in price a couple of years into its life.

I would have loved to have seen what numbers the PS5 would have done if not for supply issues/pandemic.

Yep, that too. The PS5 in fact got a price increase!

[Dcubed]

More interesting stuff regarding the ballooning budget dillema...

A presentation from 2022 was found that shows Insomniac presenting how mid-sized games like Miles Morales could be more profitable than mega AAA budget games like Spiderman 2...

Here Insomniac are showing that three mid-sized games could be made for the budget of just one AAA game, and bring in more revenue; while also being made quicker.

Of course, given that we know Insomniac's 10 year plan going forward, it seems that there's a disconnect between what Insomniac want to do and what Sony/Playstation want from the studio...

... still, it's nice to know that Insomniac leadership seem to agree with me and @Hero of Time here!

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Reading the PS thread on Era and some are suggesting that if a studio is getting closed down then Media Molocule has to be high on the list. Gotta agree with that guess. Their games aren't big sellers and Dreams seemed to have be a big flop for them, especially given how long it took to develop.

Good shout, you may well be right.  They're amongst Sony's most unproductive studios... I'm sure that if one studio is getting the axe, it'll be either them or Bend.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

Yup, it's crazy that higher ups can't see the sense in this. Nobody was complaining about games like Miles Morales, Ratchet and Clank or Uncharted: Lost Legacy and these are the types of games that we need more of.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Hero-of-Time

[drahkon]

I'm gonna interrupt this broadcast for a very special message:

Been playing Metal: Hellsinger for a bit just now. Finished the tutorial and the first level so very early impressions.

What is this game? A rhythm FPS.
Is it good? So far, yes!
How does it work? You run around and attack enemies to the beat of the song. The better you are (i.e. if you keep staying on beat), the higher your combo meter (and in turn your damage) goes. The higher the combo meter, the more layers of the song are revealed (vocals at the max level).

Now, I've listened to some metal back in my younger days but the older I got the more I preferred rock. Couldn't enjoy the screams in metal anymore.

However, I still do enjoy the riffs and holy cow there are some bangers here. Granted, I've only got access to three songs but man...the first boss' music:

Pretty sure I headbanged my way through the boss fight

[drahkon]

18 hours ago, drahkon said:

Metal: Hellsinger

It's really good!
4 levels left and it's been such a blast! Also quite challenging, even on normal difficulty.

Beating a level also unlocks some challenges, which add interesting twists like: on each kill your weapon changes or only kills with ultimates count. Makes for some good variety.

Speaking of variety, the only thing that sucks is that the game suffers from Nintendo's "you have to fight the same boss a million times" syndrome

[Hero-of-Time]

Insomniac responds to the hack

 

[drahkon]

Didn't think I'd finish one more game this year, let alone such a banger!

When a game makes you feel badass even when you reload, then it's a great game

Was very surprised to see who sings the final boss' theme:

Spoiler

Serj Tankian

Yupyup, highly recommended! PS+ Extra delivers yet again

[Hero-of-Time]

I downloaded it after you were raving about it. No idea when I'll get to it though.

[drahkon]

Just now, Hero-of-Time said:

I downloaded it after you were raving about it. No idea when I'll get to it though.

Good man.

The trophy list is also very fun. Aside from one trophy which is just tedious (clear a level with the weakest weapon only...).

 

[Dcubed]

https://comicbook.com/gaming/amp/news/god-of-war-games-ps5-remaster-release-rumor/
 

Hope this is true.  I have no interest in the reboot GOW games, but the original trilogy? Yes please!

[Happenstance]

Got Star Trek Resurgence for Christmas so started that earlier now my niece and nephew have left. I've got a feeling I'm going to love it because it's Star Trek but if it was based on any other series I would be disappointed. Feels very stilted in it's movement and animations, at least a generation or two old. Bit glitchy already as well.