Retro_Link Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) Firstly don't get hung up on the episode title or anything, it's just one part of a really enjoyable, well rounded discussion on Nintendo's current situation, with plenty of topics, thoughts and ideas. Enjoy. Edited May 8, 2014 by Retro_Link
Ronnie Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Great episode with some good points all round. IGN gets a lot of negative rep but I really enjoy their Nintendo coverage.
Wii Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Damn! Now I've to do a google search for Shadowgate to see if that's coming to Wii U. I hope it is, I like games like that. Very good episode, I don't visit IGN anymore, fell out of love with them after everyone leaving and their hate for Nintendo. I still visit their forums daily but not the main site. I'd be interested in more stuff like that. All very relevant about Iwata and agreed with nearly everything they said. The thing is it's Iwata's mess, so he should fix it and he has had some great successes. If he was this side of the pond, he'd have been toast a long time ago.
Goron_3 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Looking forward to this! Cheers. On a related note, here's a fantastic article from Emily Rogers about Iwata and his continued failure as CEO to understand western markets. http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/04/02/satoru-iwata-hubris-versus-western-culture/ His quotes throughout are hilarious. Nice guy. Awful, awful CEO.
liger05 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 The guy is bullet proof. I just don’t understand how someone so out of touch, so clueless and someone who continues to fail in his job can manage to stay in such an important position. Every company can go through hard times but with Iwata I have not one bit of confidence that he has a plan to turn it around. He got made lucky with the Wii and the decisions since then tell me he doesn’t even know why the Wii was a success other than it was simply lightning in a bottle. The Wii & DS phenomenon gave Nintendo more cash than they could of imagined and in a short space of time Iwata has managed to blow it. Nintendo were top of the pile and in a position where they could afford to take risks, be brave and take on the competition in this generation.
Ville Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Looking forward to this! Cheers. On a related note, here's a fantastic article from Emily Rogers about Iwata and his continued failure as CEO to understand western markets. http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/04/02/satoru-iwata-hubris-versus-western-culture/ His quotes throughout are hilarious. Nice guy. Awful, awful CEO. Great article! What dawned on me while reading that was that Nintendo really doesn't have a clue of who they're trying to attract with the Wii U. The Wii was its own thing, while the Wii U tries to be everything at once like she says in the article. Also, the bit about the off-tv play...jesus christ, did they even do any research before committing to that? Most households in the US and UK have more than one tv? Well who would've friggin' guessed! Just shows how out of the loop they are what comes to the western markets...
Goron_3 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Great article! What dawned on me while reading that was that Nintendo really doesn't have a clue of who they're trying to attract with the Wii U. The Wii was its own thing, while the Wii U tries to be everything at once like she says in the article. Also, the bit about the off-tv play...jesus christ, did they even do any research before committing to that? Most households in the US and UK have more than one tv? Well who would've friggin' guessed! Just shows how out of the loop they are what comes to the western markets... Nintendo of America have no power or authority anymore, it's incredibly sad. Iwata completely got rid of all of NoA's western support/2nd party support and that's why Nintendo are such a weak brand in the west. I'm not sure if it's that article or another one on the website but Iwata, during the GC days, was a big believer in having a diverse software line-up and he believed 'one big title' wasn't enough to make people buy a title. Strange how with the Wii U he's constantly saying 'One title changes everything'. Hypocrite. This game scoop podcast was pretty great! The only thing I disliked was the talk of a hybrid; Nintendo won't release just 1 handheld system but instead will release a handheld and home console with the same architecture and OS where games will be cross compatible. Hybrid isn't the right term.
liger05 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Great article! What dawned on me while reading that was that Nintendo really doesn't have a clue of who they're trying to attract with the Wii U. The Wii was its own thing, while the Wii U tries to be everything at once like she says in the article. Also, the bit about the off-tv play...jesus christ, did they even do any research before committing to that? Most households in the US and UK have more than one tv? Well who would've friggin' guessed! Just shows how out of the loop they are what comes to the western markets... This is why I'm amazed the Wii u got greenlit but obviously the amount of market research and focus groups etc etc done to determine whether people actually need or want a 2nd screen was minimal at best. Households dont have 1 tv and the idea that people would rather use the Gamepad than a flatscreen given the choice is laughable. This was simply a reaction to the Ipad craze and trying to find a middle ground between consoles and tablets. Nothing but a gamble and not a caculated one at that.
tapedeck Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) Nothing but a gamble and not a caculated one at that. As much as the WiiU is failing, this is completely wrong. Just as they did with the Wii's Blue Ocean strategy, Nintendo had carried out extensive research into market trends - specifically linking to the uptake of multiple screens in households. They frequently cited Sherry Turkle's book from 2011 entitled Alone Together: why we expect more from technology and less from each other. Turkle had pioneered research into relationships with technology from 1980 onwards and is a highly respected American researcher. (Her Ted talk from last year is great, highly recommended). Her findings and changes in how we engage with our entertainment were cited as reasons for the WiiU having a GamePad in a Nintendo direct and presentations during the unveiling of the hardware. And the logic was sound. We now spend more time on electronic devices, engaging with shorter, sharper experiences that can be used at a moments notice whilst in the same space as our friends and family. The idea of the GamePad was to embrace this train of thought. The market was everyone. I really enjoy gaming while my other half watches TV and pausing to talk to her or showing her where I am in a game. Even uploading images to Miiverse and accessing them on a mobile is Nintendo leaving behind the boundaries of TV and engaging with this train of thought. Unfortunately Nintendo haven't pushed that angle effectively. Their reasons were sound. Their follow through was confusing/costly and, just like with Wii, the newest tech (compared to other consoles) was found in the controller. I also believe that the thought of quick, accessible gaming arguably remains at odds with the ideologies of gamers who want epic (in size and scope) games. The biggest surprise for me so far is how well the PS4/XBox are selling. That core audience of gamers have spoken, and they don't want change. Read about the ideology behind WiiU here. Edited May 9, 2014 by tapedeck
liger05 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 As much as the WiiU is failing, this is completely wrong. Just as they did with the Wii's Blue Ocean strategy, Nintendo had carried out extensive research into market trends - specifically linking to the uptake of multiple screens in households. They frequently cited Sherry Turkle's book from 2011 entitled Alone Together: why we expect more from technology and less from each other. Turkle had pioneered research into relationships with technology from 1980 onwards and is a highly respected American researcher. (Her Ted talk from last year is great, highly recommended). This was cited as a reason for the WiiU having a GamePad in Nintendo's directs and presentations during the unveiling of the hardware. And the logic was sound. We now spend more time on electronic devices, engaging with shorter, sharper experiences that can be used at a moments notice whilst in the same space as our friends and family. The idea of the GamePad was to embrace this train of thought. The market was everyone. Unfortunately Nintendo haven't pushed that angle effectively. Their reasons were sound. Their follow through was confusing/costly and the thought of quick, accessible gaming arguably remains at odds with the ideologies of gamers who want epic (in size and scope) games. Read about the ideology behind WiiU here. But that’s the problem, the market being everyone. The videogame market is big enough on its own and I don’t think Nintendo really looked at that market and what they would think of a controller like the gamepad. The sales of PS3/360 and now PS4/XB1 all say the same thing. People like to use a standard controller. Why ignore that data when it’s staring right at them. I accept plenty people pick up there phones, tablets, 3DS, Vita while they watch TV but somehow trying to make a videogame console become an another electronical device such as the above mentioned to me was a huge mistake. I wont play games on the gamepad when I can use a better TV. I wont watch a film on my phone when I can use a better TV.
tapedeck Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 But that’s the problem, the market being everyone. The videogame market is big enough on its own and I don’t think Nintendo really looked at that market and what they would think of a controller like the gamepad. The sales of PS3/360 and now PS4/XB1 all say the same thing. People like to use a standard controller. Why ignore that data when it’s looking at them right in the face. I accept plenty people pick up there phones, tablets, 3DS, Vita while they watch TV but somehow trying to make a videogame console become an another electronical device such as the above mentioned to me was a huge mistake. I wont play games on the gamepad when I can use a better TV. I wont watch a film on my phone when I can use a better TV. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Nintendo gambled and lost. With the Wii, I do believe two things happened that had a significant impact on Nintendo's vision for the future landscape of the industry: Sales were incredible for the first half of the systems life. Sales fell off a cliff years later. Due to a culmination of: smartphone gaming became standard/Nintendo not being able to come up with motion ideas anymore/the casual audience leaving/a lack of horsepower/lack of third party software. This must have been concerning for Nintendo. They had sold the Wii on the strength of their own games (particularly Wii Sports which led Iwata to change his idea that a single piece of software couldn't change the industry). But with WiiU they needed third parties back as I'm sure they may have guessed the Wii casual crowd might not come back. Unfortunately they have been stuck between a rock and a hard place ever since. As I said above, they gambled on how the world of technology was changing. To be honest, I am actually surprised gamers are still buying the latest FIFA/COD/GTA/Battlefield/Madden/Assassins creed as much as Nintendo probably are. This is now a period of transition for Nintendo. Just as EA/SONY/MS/UBI/Activision are doing to sell hardware and software, let the IP extraction commence!
Goron_3 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 The bizarre thing about the Wii U is that they ditched the whole 'blue ocean' strategy and created such a complicated device. Again, highly recommend Emily Roger's in depth articles regarding Iwata and Wii U. There's also an in depth interview with a former NoA guy who was very high up and he comments in some detail about the problems Nintendo have (NoJ rule the roost, no one at NoA understood why the GC wasn't selling, Iwata/Miyamoto didn't understand why GTA et al were successful). The problem isn't just that they gambled on their understanding of the market and it failed, it's that they don't understand cultural differences between Japan and the western world. This was evident during the GC days when they thought Giest was a Halo 2 killer. Hmm, maybe this deserves another thread actually. Maybe I'll start one
Retro_Link Posted May 9, 2014 Author Posted May 9, 2014 Yep, like IGN say, the Wii U literally does it's best to push everyone away that the Wii U attracted/converted. Very strange. Also whilst Nintendo saw (as everyone else did it has to be said, it's not as though they spotted this trend) that handheld devices such as phones and tablets were taking off, the Gamepad itself never really targeted that market due to such a lack of other functionality. It confuses the message even more.
dazzybee Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Good video. That Colin is a bit if a prick though. Also hate the textbook corporate mentality of people needing to fall on their sword, the American blame culture, makes me a bit sick personally. E3 will tell us everything of the future I think. Do they have a reason for the gamepad? Do they have enough software? Or are they letting it die... Their forecast is the terrifying aspect in all this!
Goron_3 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Good video. That Colin is a bit if a prick though. Also hate the textbook corporate mentality of people needing to fall on their sword, the American blame culture, makes me a bit sick personally. E3 will tell us everything of the future I think. Do they have a reason for the gamepad? Do they have enough software? Or are they letting it die... Their forecast is the terrifying aspect in all this! I see it as more of an asian mentality thing tbh. You know, honor and all that But yeah, Colin. Hate him haha.
Ronnie Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I don't mind Colin at all, I think his aggressive stance on Nintendo is needed next to Jose's flowery chat. He clearly wants to see them succeed, as do most of the IGN staff. The day Daemon or Brian Altano leave IGN is the day I stop visiting as well though!
Retro_Link Posted May 9, 2014 Author Posted May 9, 2014 Yeah have to agree. I don't mind his attitude at all, it's still one that wants to see Nintendo succeed, I think IGN have a good group atm and I've been enjoying their videos more and more. Also I thought that discussion group was quite representative of this forum and the differing views/stances we have, perhaps partly why I enjoyed it all the more. We may argue on here at times, but maybe all it would take is a few comfy sofa's and it'd be a healthy debate
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 Looking forward to this! Cheers. On a related note, here's a fantastic article from Emily Rogers about Iwata and his continued failure as CEO to understand western markets. http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/04/02/satoru-iwata-hubris-versus-western-culture/ His quotes throughout are hilarious. Nice guy. Awful, awful CEO. I read/skim read through the majority of this and thought it was brilliant. Right from the start with the quotes related to the droughts. It's very damning. Iwata needs replacing with somebody who is more relevant, more ruthless and more exciting.
Goron_3 Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 I read/skim read through the majority of this and thought it was brilliant. Right from the start with the quotes related to the droughts. It's very damning. Iwata needs replacing with somebody who is more relevant, more ruthless and more exciting. There's a more recent one where a guy who used to work with Reggie is interviewed and he's asked why Nintendo don't support the Smash community, and he said it's because they don't like to support the image of Nintendo characters beating each other up. In a fighting game.. About Nintendo characters beating each other up. Honestly, so much problems.
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 There's a more recent one where a guy who used to work with Reggie is interviewed and he's asked why Nintendo don't support the Smash community, and he said it's because they don't like to support the image of Nintendo characters beating each other up. In a fighting game.. About Nintendo characters beating each other up. Honestly, so much problems. Not sure if srs. I don't even know where to begin with that one. Ha.
Grazza Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 Let's see how good E3 is. I don't like to criticise individuals, but what I sense these days from Nintendo is a lack of either passion or logic. The GameCube was passionate, the Wii was logical. Whilst I much prefer the Wii U to the Wii, I see less logic in who it's aiming at. When you see the average Nintendo Direct, and Iwata is standing in front of those wood panels (sorry!) and showing off the GamePad or something like Nintendoland, I think to myself "Did this excite the staff at Nintendo? Were they passionate about working on it?" Because when you look at something like Twilight Princess, you can really see the point in making that, but most of their newer releases don't give me that feeling at all. As I say, it's all about E3. If it positions the next few years of the Wii U as a recreation of the GameCube days - Metroid, Zelda, F-Zero - I'll be ecstatic. But if it's more like Skylanders, SNES Remix and more Nintendoland-esque GamePad ideas I'll be more critical.
dazzybee Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 There's a more recent one where a guy who used to work with Reggie is interviewed and he's asked why Nintendo don't support the Smash community, and he said it's because they don't like to support the image of Nintendo characters beating each other up. In a fighting game.. About Nintendo characters beating each other up. Honestly, so much problems. Quotes? Because them holding the smash tournament at e3 negates this beyond belief!
Retro_Link Posted May 10, 2014 Author Posted May 10, 2014 Quotes? Because them holding the smash tournament at e3 negates this beyond belief! No the point is they now realise they have to embrace such communities.
dazzybee Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 No the point is they now realise they have to embrace such communities. Which shows they're learning yeah?
Retro_Link Posted May 10, 2014 Author Posted May 10, 2014 I don't get your point, no one said contrary... it's just an interesting insight.
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