Wii U General Discussion

[Sheikah]

Looking at films though, I remember seeing them first time and thinking it looked fairly good. A few years later I look back and think it is terrible :P

The film is still great, but the graphics show it's age. It's not about resolution, but how natural the movement looks, how light falls, colour palette choices I suppose.

 

You are right though, I think, if you insinuated that we will reach a point where budget will constrain how much goes into a game more than the hardware - I don't think any of us would be happy spending another £40 on a game just for minor barely noticeable graphical enhancements.

 

Resolution is a small part of what makes films look old - you can see the difference immediately even in films released right now, between DVD and Blu Ray versions. Aspect ratio is another point as old films tended to be 4:3, unlike these days (same with games). Add to that artefacts in the film (common in old films), black and white, poorer sound recording...

 

Of course there are artistic choices and the way people talk and behave in old media that can also make it seem old-fashioned years down the line...however, Witcher 3 is set in a Medieval fantasy period and these choices are therefore somewhat timeproof, because it's supposed to mirror a particular time period.

 

 

Most of those factors then don't have as big a bearing this day and age, which is why talking about the the leap from NES doesn't as easily apply to games of this era. Ok, resolution and framerate will continue to climb, but I think what we're seeing with Witcher has got to a point where it will still look nice years down the line. We're not going to see anywhere near the same level of games becoming outdated so easily because they're approach a much greater level of sophistication.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Sheikah

[Rummy]

Oh you guys. Didn't I say this was going to happen?

 

@Sheikah - you need to learn to let things go here rather than continue your arguments on a point that is clearly not Wii U discussion. If you must insist on not dealing with people's opinions and 'calling someone out if they start with the generalisations' - why not quote their post and take it to the more relevant thread rather than continue the derailment of this one? Just as some of us needn't leap to the defence of the WiiU every time it's criticised with a comparison to the competition, some of us also needn't leap the other way either. I would actually call dazzybee's original point fair myself - he was talking about this generation and the alternative to Wii U that he owns - is that not an argument given by yourself in the past to justify criticism of the WiiU?

 

 

Nonetheless, this has all been delightful, but as both mr-paul and S.C.G both seemed to want to keep the topic more on the WiiU whilst others just came and threw their other arguments around, I'm going to ask people to keep it Wii U related going forward, please! I'll delete posts continuing the arguments about PS4/The Witcher etc

[Rummy]

Where are the GameCube equivalents of Splatoon, Donkey Kong Country, Captain Toad, Wonderful 101, Super Mario U, Hyrule Warriors, Yoshi's Wooly World etc?

 

I think if anything - that proves his point. People's tastes maybe haven't changed - Nintendo's output may have instead.

[Ronnie]

The Gamecube had shooters, so you could say Timesplitters 2, for example, was it's Splatoon equivalent (this is the hardest given Splatoon's unique nature, it's arguable there is no equivalent).

It had platformers, so DKC, Yoshi and Mario are covered.

For Hyrule Warriors, it had Mystic Heroes which was the same type of game.

 

So basically it had equivalents on them.

 

The WiiU doesn't have a broad enough spectrum of games really. On the list you posted, of 26 games, 7 are platformers and 5 are party-style minigame compilations. Almost half of the list belong to just 2 genres. That was my point.

 

My point was you have unique experiences on both. 2D Mario, Donkey Kong and Yoshi are key franchises yet where nowhere to be seen on Gamecube. Wonderful 101 is a brand new game. Splatoon isn't just 'another shooter'.

 

You're also comparing a SD console that was out for five years, with a HD one that's barely over two and a half years old. Not exactly fair. Cut the Gamecube's library in half then compare them.

[Kav]

My point was you have unique experiences on both. 2D Mario, Donkey Kong and Yoshi are key franchises yet where nowhere to be seen on Gamecube. Wonderful 101 is a brand new game. Splatoon isn't just 'another shooter'.

 

You're also comparing a SD console that was out for five years, with a HD one that's barely over two and a half years old. Not exactly fair. Cut the Gamecube's library in half then compare them.

 

That's fair enough then, we're making slightly different points... but yours goes to prove my second point which is diversity amongst Nintendo's, and the console as a whole, output.

Their lack of diversity in games they're releasing may be the reason why they're losing more and more of their core fanbase with each passing generation.

 

Also, of the games I listed, they were all released within the first 2.5 years of the Gamecube's lifespan. Killer 7 and Resident Evil 4 being the exceptions, although REmake was released within that timeframe. So halving the GC's list wouldn't make a difference.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Kav

[Ronnie]

That's fair enough then, we're making slightly different points... but yours goes to prove my second point which is diversity amongst Nintendo's, and the console as a whole, output.

Their lack of diversity in games they're releasing may be the reason why they're losing more and more of their core fanbase with each passing generation.

 

They've been losing more of their core fanbase since the NES days. Compared to the rest of the industry, their diversity is fine. They have something their competitors don't have, world renowned well loved IP, it makes sense to use them.

[Serebii]

That's fair enough then, we're making slightly different points... but yours goes to prove my second point which is diversity amongst Nintendo's, and the console as a whole, output.

Their lack of diversity in games they're releasing may be the reason why they're losing more and more of their core fanbase with each passing generation.

 

Also, of the games I listed, they were all released within the first 2.5 years of the Gamecube's lifespan. Killer 7 and Resident Evil 4 being the exceptions, although REmake was released within that timeframe. So halving the GC's list wouldn't make a difference.

I'd argue the games they've put out are more diverse than ever.

[Kav]

They've been losing more of their core fanbase since the NES days. Compared to the rest of the industry, their diversity is fine. They have something their competitors don't have, world renowned well loved IP, it makes sense to use them.

 

But they're not really using them! Where's the new F-Zero, Waverace, 1080, Excite series, Metroid, Earthbound, Fire Emblem, Battalion Wars? There are plenty of franchises that would add so much to the console that they're just sitting on.

 

Also, what on earth makes you think the competitors don't have franchises that are world renowned and loved?! Of course they do! All you need do is look at games sales for franchises to see they're more loved than Nintendo's these days.

 

I'd argue the games they've put out are more diverse than ever.

 

You'd only argue out of blind love for defending them though.

 

I could argue terrorism is good... but I'd be wrong.

 

I'm only joking Serebii... partly, haha.

 

I agree that they given diversity themselves with Splatoon and Cpt Toad.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Kav
Automerged Doublepost

[Serebii]

You'd only argue out of blind love for defending them though.

 

I could argue terrorism is good... but I'd be wrong.

 

I'm only joking Serebii... partly, haha.

 

I agree that they given diversity themselves with Splatoon and Cpt Toad.

 

Nonsense, the games they've published are more diverse than they ever have been.

[Ronnie]

But they're not really using them! Where's the new F-Zero, Waverace, 1080, Excite series, Metroid, Earthbound, Fire Emblem, Battalion Wars? There are plenty of franchises that would add so much to the console that they're just sitting on.

 

Battalion Wars isn't world renowned. Nor is Earthbound or 1080. I'm talking about Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Kirby etc...

 

Also, what on earth makes you think the competitors don't have franchises that are world renowned and loved?! Of course they do! All you need do is look at games sales for franchises to see they're more loved than Nintendo's these days.

 

Because they don't. They have quality games that people love, but in terms of characters, not so much. Certainly nowhere near the vast cupboard of IP that Nintendo have at their disposal. It's why everyone wants to see Nintendo games on PS4/XBO. Nintendo have 30 years of nostalgia and IP at their disposal, Playstation has... Drake, Sackboy and erm, Crash Bandicoot. Xbox has Master Chief.

[Rummy]

You'd only argue out of blind love for defending them though.

 

Don't make it about the person behind the arguments - stick to the points being made! This is how everything ends up going wrong around here.

 

Nonsense, the games they've published are more diverse than they ever have been.

 

Could you actually argue the point though? Like qualify it with how you think it's more diverse than ever? I can definitely see the arguments in the lack of diversity in the Wii U's output.

[Ronnie]

Could you actually argue the point though? Like qualify it with how you think it's more diverse than ever? I can definitely see the arguments in the lack of diversity in the Wii U's output.

 

Splatoon: team-based online shooter

Smash Bros: Beat-em-up/brawler

Mario Kart 8: Racing game

Mario 3D World: 3D Platformer

Mario U, DK, Yoshi: 2D Platformer

Pikmin 3: RTS

Hyrule Warriors: Hack and Slash

NintendoLand: Mini game collection

Wonderful 101: Strategy/Action

Bayonetta 2: Action

Captain Toad: Puzzler

Mario Party 10: Party game

Super Mario Maker: Level creator

Starfox Zero: Arcade shoot-em-up

Xenoblade Chronicles X: RPG

Mario Tennis Ultra Smash: Sports

Project Zero: Horror

Zelda U: Action/Adventure

[Kav]

Battalion Wars isn't world renowned. Nor is Earthbound or 1080. I'm talking about Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Kirby etc...

 

Because they don't. They have quality games that people love, but in terms of characters, not so much. Certainly nowhere near the vast cupboard of IP that Nintendo have at their disposal. It's why everyone wants to see Nintendo games on PS4/XBO. Nintendo have 30 years of nostalgia and IP at their disposal, Playstation has... Drake, Sackboy and erm, Crash Bandicoot. Xbox has Master Chief.

 

Battalion Wars, 1080 and Earthbound would still offer something to the console's library though, more diversity. You can't argue that.

 

Also, you're talking about characters there, not franchises. Yoshi may be loved, as is Kirby, but their games will not sell more than the Halo, Gears, God of War, Uncharted etc. franchises. The franchises of the competition are more loved by the majority of gamers today, that's the truth.

I'm not saying I love them more but the majority of gamers do. Sales prove it.

[Ronnie]

Battalion Wars, 1080 and Earthbound would still offer something to the console's library though, more diversity. You can't argue that.

 

I never said they wouldn't. Would they sell much? Doubtful.

 

Also, you're talking about characters there, not franchises. Yoshi may be loved, as is Kirby, but their games will not sell more than the Halo, Gears, God of War, Uncharted etc. franchises. The franchises of the competition are more loved by the majority of gamers today, that's the truth.

I'm not saying I love them more but the majority of gamers do. Sales prove it.

 

I never said otherwise.

[Happenstance]

Because they don't. They have quality games that people love, but in terms of characters, not so much. Certainly nowhere near the vast cupboard of IP that Nintendo have at their disposal. It's why everyone wants to see Nintendo games on PS4/XBO. Nintendo have 30 years of nostalgia and IP at their disposal, Playstation has... Drake, Sackboy and erm, Crash Bandicoot. Xbox has Master Chief.

 

This is because for the other companies at least, the era of the mascots came and went. We had all that stuff in the 90s and early 2000s but its just not needed as much anymore.

 

Personally this is why I prefer the other companies and have gone off Nintendo. They all have IPs but the other companies will move onto something new while Nintendo will keep mining that well.

[Ronnie]

The age of the mascot came and went for them because nothing stuck. Show 100 people off the street photos of Mario, Link, Picachu and most will tell you who they are. Show people off the street pics of Drake, Master Chief, COD/Battlefield/Division shooter and they'll have no idea. That's a huge positive for Nintendo.

[Happenstance]

And thats why Nintendo are leading the pack at the moment.

[Rummy]

Splatoon: team-based online shooter

Smash Bros: Beat-em-up/brawler

Mario Kart 8: Racing game

Mario 3D World: 3D Platformer

Mario U, DK, Yoshi: 2D Platformer

Pikmin 3: RTS

Hyrule Warriors: Hack and Slash

NintendoLand: Mini game collection

Wonderful 101: Strategy/Action

Bayonetta 2: Action

Captain Toad: Puzzler

Mario Party 10: Party game

Super Mario Maker: Level creator

Starfox Zero: Arcade shoot-em-up

Xenoblade Chronicles X: RPG

Mario Tennis Ultra Smash: Sports

Project Zero: Horror

Zelda U: Action/Adventure

 

Do you really class diversity as being able to slot games into different genres? I don't want to come up with a counterpoint of offerings on other systems, but I'm sure one could make an equal if not greater list for them.

 

I would also mention that some titles above have both overlap, but rather more annoyingly, a bad case of sequel-itis. I struggle to find diversity in playing the racing game I've played 7 times before, let alone others like 2D mario, 2.5D mario, and even Smash - a title I never thought I'd find not fresh.

 

The age of the mascot came and went for them because nothing stuck. Show 100 people off the street photos of Mario, Link, Picachu and most will tell you who they are. Show people off the street pics of Drake, Master Chief, COD/Battlefield/Division shooter and they'll have no idea. That's a huge positive for Nintendo.

 

Really? Like...did you just completely make up hypothetical numbers to try and prove a point? There's absolutely no basis in what you're claiming. You can't just make up stuff to hope it helps your point. Additionally, a ton of people can probably tell you who pac-man is - what does that count for though?

 

In fact, if you went out and showed 100 people a picture of Master Chief, I'm pretty sure at least 110 of them would be able to tell you who it is

 

Though it is an excellent excuse for me to post this video again;

Edited July 30, 2015 by Rummy

[Ronnie]

Do you really class diversity as being able to slot games into different genres? I don't want to come up with a counterpoint of offerings on other systems, but I'm sure one could make an equal if not greater list for them.

 

I would also mention that some titles above have both overlap, but rather more annoyingly, a bad case of sequel-itis. I struggle to find diversity in playing the racing game I've played 7 times before, let alone others like 2D mario, 2.5D mario, and even Smash - a title I never thought I'd find not fresh.

 

Not sure how you can criticise a once-a-console Smash or Mario Kart when the rest of the industry has YEARLY sequel-itis. 5 Mario Karts spanning 23 years isn't too bad. Nor is 4 Smash games spanning 16 years.

 

Yes I do class diversity as being able to slot into different genres. Every one of those types of games are drastically different from each other. Sure many use the same IP, but the gameplay between each is totally different. Sure there are lots of platformers on the system, but every console has it's stable, shooters and action games being the equivalent on other systems.

[Rummy]

Not sure how you can criticise a once-a-console Smash or Mario Kart when the rest of the industry has YEARLY sequel-itis. 5 Mario Karts spanning 23 years isn't too bad. Nor is 4 Smash games spanning 16 years.

 

Yes I do class diversity as being able to slot into different genres. Every one of those types of games are drastically different from each other. Sure many use the same IP, but the gameplay between each is totally different. Sure there are lots of platformers on the system, but every console has it's stable, shooters and action games being the equivalent on other systems.

 

What you ignore are the games that DON'T suffer from the sequel-itis on other platforms though. I'm not denying there are games that do, but there are plenty that don't. Nintendo has so much less of that - hence why I view it lacking in diversity.

[Ronnie]

Really? Like...did you just completely make up hypothetical numbers to try and prove a point? There's absolutely no basis in what you're claiming.

 

Hypothetical numbers? All I claimed was a sample size of 100. Make it 1000 if you want, the point is the same. It's fairly obvious that more random people off the street will recognise Mario or Link than Drake or Master Chief.

 

What you ignore are the games that DON'T suffer from the sequel-itis on other platforms though. I'm not denying there are games that do, but there are plenty that don't. Nintendo has so much less of that - hence why I view it lacking in diversity.

 

Like NintendoLand, Wonderful 101, Hyrule Warriors, Captain Toad, Splatoon, Super Mario Maker? I think the sequel-itis is present on both Nintendo and the competition to the same degree. The biggest franchises on the other consoles, FIFA, COD and Assasin's Creed see a new installment every year. The biggest franchises on Nintendo consoles see a new installment every generation.

[Kav]

People on the street will not recognise Link... most people on the street think he's Zelda!

[Eddage]

Hypothetical numbers? All I claimed was a sample size of 100. Make it 1000 if you want, the point is the same. It's fairly obvious that more random people off the street will recognise Mario or Link than Drake or Master Chief.

 

What about asking 1000 gamers though?

 

Doesn't matter if people who don't play video games recognise the characters or not since they wont be buying any video games any way, therefore the recognition is of no benefit.

[Ronnie]

What about asking 1000 gamers though?

 

Doesn't matter if people who don't play video games recognise the characters or not since they wont be buying any video games any way, therefore the recognition is of no benefit.

 

So you're saying having world recognised IP is of no value whatsoever? Come on, it opens up a huge market.

[Rummy]

Hypothetical numbers? All I claimed was a sample size of 100. Make it 1000 if you want, the point is the same. It's fairly obvious that more random people off the street will recognise Mario or Link than Drake or Master Chief.

 

Maths and science are not based off 'fairly obvious' assumptions. Even so - you moved far off the point of franchises presented by Kav and moved it to characters. How many people would recognise Niko Bellic? Does that then even have any bearing on the hugeness of the franchise that is GTA?

 

Like NintendoLand, Wonderful 101, Hyrule Warriors, Captain Toad, Splatoon, Super Mario Maker? I think the sequel-itis is present on both Nintendo and the competition to the same degree. The biggest franchises on the other consoles, FIFA, COD and Assasin's Creed see a new installment every year. The biggest franchises on Nintendo consoles see a new installment every generation.

 

Why are you still focusing on the point of sequels when I've already said that it isn't about that. What I'm saying is there's MORE alternatives on the competition, giving more diversity.

 

You've named...5/6 games there. Where's my...Journey, FeZ, Terraria, Geometry Wars, PixelJunk Eden, Metal Gear or GTA to name a few but 7? I already said I could come up with an equal if not greater list of the diverse titles on alternatives but didn't want to; I've easily just exceeded your 6 alone. The caveat - some are PS3/360 rather than current gen because I'm not familiar with it, but I can do some further research if you like(and the last two will surely appear).

 

People on the street will not recognise Link... most people on the street think he's Zelda!

 

I was so tempted to mention that :p

Edited July 30, 2015 by Rummy