The Mass Effect Mafia (Game Thread)

[DuD]

Reply in Sheikah style

I don't see any rational basis for this comment if I'm being honest. I have already admitted that there was an attempt to send me to Dedede but I reached Yvonne regardless, which in my opinion hardly accounts to a direct clash with what he says he knows.

DeDeDe said his PM was pretty much a Carbon Copy of the write-up. Theres your rational basis. I'll trust the writ-up thanks

 

To put it bluntly, if Jon is a power reflector then he will have failed to target me, as I was protected. If he was a tracker then equally he would have failed to target me. Jimbob specifically told me I was protected from all night actions last night due to protection from another as well as being a Spectre. So I'm left wondering quite how he would have known there was an attempted sending of me to him, which leads me to think the obvious.

Again, just your words here no evidence. Now lets look at fact.

Peeps DIDN'T target you.

Nintendohnut is DEAD

Your (tall) story relies on a highly dubious 3rd Protector

 

Second, Yvonne's reinforcement of Jon's statement actually further hurts Jon's statement about me not reaching Yvonne. As I pointed out before, there really is only a very small chance that Yvonne happened to have the right power and targeted the right person that night that would conveniently provide him an exonerating statement to use to use in retaliation the very instant Yvonne is accused of being Mafia. It's really not likely, so this post is really starting to tell me more about your angle. Yvonne backing up Jon's statement, certainly in my eyes, tells me all I need to know.

All Hear'Say.. it is actually possible for the above to have happened. No facts to support or dismiss this.

 

In what capacity does this not add up? It only doesn't add up because you choose to view it that way.

For you to be telling the truth this game needs 2 alignment investigators, 3 protectors and DeDeDe and Yvonne are both lying.

 

And yet, the crumbling piece to that argument is that neither arguing side supports this - I state that I targeted Yvonne and was untargetable (Rummy could not target me to support this), while Yvonne argues I targeted Dedede. No one except you is claiming I could have roleblocked mr-paul.

[/quote}

I've not siad you roleblocked Mr-P. Go back and re-read.

I've said that YOU, RUMMY or YVONNE is lying.

Now follow this closely..

If you are lying, obviously your info is shit and your mafia.

If Rummy is lying, you being untargetable is made up and DeDeDe and Yvonnes claim is backed up.

If Yvonne is lying, DeDeDe's still clears Yvonne.

 

From theyour story's reliance of a 3rd protector i'm less inclined to believe it over a more logical story.

 

I'd also like to bring up previous points that you didn't address:

 

- Why, when Yvonne was clearly accused by me that he shouldn't have been able to target me, did he not immediately point out that I was not his target? In fact, he quoted my post to say that I had valid comments, aside from commenting that it was right to call out Jimbob.

 

- Why have you not also focused on Yvonne's quick change of heart yesterday from being reserved in holding back on a Cube vote, to rapidly placing a vote down on Aqui1a with zero justification?

 

- I think we're one vote from majority. Don't you find it a little odd that the Mafia haven't jumped, and that it has taken the majority of the day to garner the required votes on Yvonne? Aqui1a was lynched on far less in a ridiculously less amount of time.

 

I would appreciate the final vote on Yvonne to come. I would hope to most by now that the arguments I have presented are thorough enough to convince you.

1st. Because it is based on opinion of behaviour rather than something indisputable.

 

2nd. Yvonne didn't hammer. I'd be inclined to vote Ganepark maybe. I was getting frustrated waiting for Aqui1a myself and was thinking of voting.

 

3rd. There plenty of evidence on a few people today so its another point that is based on opinion not fact.

 

Your posts have not gave me any evidence to change my mind, rather further convinced me my decison is correct.

[Jimbob]

A lot of chit-chatter indeed, so hopefully i got this right at the moment

 

Vote Count (as it stands)

 

Yvonne - Sheikah, Mr-Paul (2)

 

Magnus Peterson - Himself (1)

 

Ganepark32 - Rummy (1)

 

Sheikah - Jon Dedede, DuD (2)

 

Majority is 6

 

Day ends 11pm Wednesday

[Sheikah]

Ah, convolution. Guaranteed to stop the lynch on account of half the audience losing track of what seemed pretty simple to everyone before.

 

Reply in Sheikah style

 

DeDeDe said his PM was pretty much a Carbon Copy of the write-up. Theres your rational basis. I'll trust the writ-up thanks

 

Again, just your words here no evidence. Now lets look at fact.

Peeps DIDN'T target you.

Nintendohnut is DEAD

 

How can you discount my role on account of your own beliefs on how a game should be balanced, then continue on to argue that most of my points are based on hearsay? It's a weak argument and you know it.

 

 

All Hear'Say.. it is actually possible for the above to have happened. No facts to support or dismiss this.

 

By that logic it's also possible that within a week a natural disaster could wipe out the Earth. But you certainly wouldn't bet on it. Well, I wouldn't.

 

 

For you to be telling the truth this game needs 2 alignment investigators, 3 protectors and DeDeDe and Yvonne are both lying.

 

As I've already stated, I'm limited to 3 uses and the other investigator was also handicapped in a different way. It's Jimbob's method of spreading risk.

 

And yet, the crumbling piece to that argument is that neither arguing side supports this - I state that I targeted Yvonne and was untargetable (Rummy could not target me to support this), while Yvonne argues I targeted Dedede. No one except you is claiming I could have roleblocked mr-paul.

I've not siad you roleblocked Mr-P. Go back and re-read.

I've said that YOU, RUMMY or YVONNE is lying.

Now follow this closely..

If you are lying, obviously your info is shit and your mafia.

If Rummy is lying, you being untargetable is made up and DeDeDe and Yvonnes claim is backed up.

If Yvonne is lying, DeDeDe's still clears Yvonne.

 

Not true at all. Both Rummy and I are telling the truth. Jon may be telling the truth as far as he knows but I did reach Yvonne. Yvonne is definitely lying and Dedede does not clear Yvonne at all, because Yvonne clearly made up his claim to exonerate himself.

 

From theyour story's reliance of a 3rd protector i'm less inclined to believe it over a more logical story.

 

 

1st. Because it is based on opinion of behaviour rather than something indisputable.

 

No. The crux of my argument is based on three things:

 

1. Alignment investigation. A given.

 

2. Succinct behavioural analysis of Yvonne that only a raving fool would ignore.

 

3. The clear hiccup made by Yvonne in not denying having targeted me when accused, rather stating my points were fair aside from one unrelated one.

 

2nd. Yvonne didn't hammer. I'd be inclined to vote Ganepark maybe. I was getting frustrated waiting for Aqui1a myself and was thinking of voting.

 

It doesn't matter if Yvonne hammered or not. What mattered is that Yvonne's sudden change in behaviour from considering Cube to outright lynching Aqui1a, combined with no justification was enough for me to investigate him and get a verdict.

 

 

Your posts have not gave me any evidence to change my mind, rather further convinced me my decison is correct.

 

While on the contrary, your post has been really useful for me and the rest of town. I've no doubts now that both Yvonne and you are part of the Mafia. Whatever happens, I would hope people remember that I have campaigned to try to get Yvonne lynched on account of what I know to be true, and that should I be lynched that people bear this paragraph in mind when hunting down scum.

 

I honestly don't know which side to vote with. Neither side has anything truly concrete so it really is down to instincts. Would people prefer to vote no lynch for this phase? It won't really work in the town's favour all that much but it would at least stop us from lynching a townie.

 

This may sound cheesy, but whatever. Believe in me. It's pretty clear that people are more likely to follow you than me. This was not a Mafia organised lynch. The Mafia could have ended this lynch so easily if they wished it, which is ideal in a short game. They did not.

 

The details that have emerged here at times may seem contradictory, but I want you to know that I would find it impossible to muster anywhere near this amount of effort and dedication to secure the lynch of someone if I was Mafia. I am committed to obtaining the lynch, and winning the game for town. In all honesty, if I was Mafia now I wouldn't have bothered. If I was Mafia and I knew we had taken out a cop and a protector, I certainly wouldn't be seeking lynches.

 

Anyway. End of heartfelt plea, etc. It's up to town to pick a side. Or not, but to do nothing is to help the Mafia too.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Sheikah
Automerged Doublepost

[DuD]

You either completely ignore key FACTS or go completely at a tangent to make your arguments and then call mine weak when I've been through the thread from day 1 looking for stories that tie up and those that don't. What does a natural disaster have to do with anything?

 

Peeps asked for my opinion.. I analysed the thread.. Your version of events is riddled with holes.. I conclude it is false..

 

DeDeDe says Sheikah is the liar and that there is a line in the write up that is basically his PM. I would say this info is therefore correct and That Makes Sheikahs Info FALSE

There's also the 2 investigator, 3 Protector part which I just don't buy, but whatever?

2 People need accounting for last night a roleblocker (on Mr-P) and an (unsuccessful) killer. From everyone else's info, (that all seems to tie in and make sense) SHEIKAH, RUMMY or YVONNE are the only possible liars.

Rummy and Sheikahs stories only tie in with each other, so if they're lying we have a killer and a roleblocker.

If Yvonne is lying is he both the killer and roleblocker?

 

So yeah, there is plenty reason to distrust you.

All evidence on Yvonne is based on an alignment investigation that we only have your word on or is opinion based on behavior or just your speculation because what he's saying doesn't help your argument.

As I've been playing mafias longer than you'll ill do my own behavioral analysis, I would expect anyone else to, hence why behavioral patterns are missing from my analysis.

 

I love how your arguments always turn to an 'agree with me or your mafia statement'. its boring and just doesn't help your case in my eyes.

If all the evidence was stacked up on someone else like this you'd jump on the vote and you know it.

 

I'm not arguing it anymore. That's what I've found in the thread, in black and white, that people have claimed.

If you are town and a 3rd projector does exist.. I will policy lynch them on reveal.

Vote stands.

[Mr-Paul]

One second, going back to yesterday, Cube/Peeps said the Asari had the power to reflect someone's power.

Did we say this info is on Jon Dedede? Or someone else?

 

If it is Jon Dedede, it really doesn't match up with his claim that he's a tracker.

 

Whoever this person is, I strongly believe they are mafia.

[Dedede]

I am an Asari called Samara - some blue bint who looks like something from Avatar.

 

I have 2 powers, one is to reflect, the other is to target. I haven't used the reflect power, statistically it seemed less likely to get a result earlier in the game.

 

As close as what my PM said without quoting is as follows:

 

I tracked Sheikah, he was waiting in my room for me to show up. Sheikah did not find anything because I was untargettable.

[DuD]

I was beginning to think I was going mad.

[Mr-Paul]

Why were you untargetable, Dedede?

[Dedede]

Not saying right now, What do you do?

[DuD]

But you do know then? Is it to do with yourself? or someone else?

[Rummy]

Could someone be a jailkeep? Maybe I was protected and blocked.

 

Does anyone want to claim as the illusive man?

 

 

ANOTHER protector? I wondered however, if Peeps was a jailkeeper.

 

The comment about me being unreachable rather than you being screwed with was that you didn't claim anyone to have told you to go anywhere nor did you claim anyone directly stopped you in any way. Rather from your writeup it sounded like I wasn't there - which agrees with me being protected rather than you being targeted.

 

In the case of offering my own lynch tomorrow, Mafia cannot win with their own votes, even if they have a double voter. Ok, they could jump on a town vote; but really, if I convinced you all to vote Yvonne based on a cop verdict and then Yvonne was found to be town, would every townie not instantly lunge to eradicate me tomorrow? I'd say most likely.

 

Nono, what it sounded like(because it litereally sounds like that) is that I could not find you. That does not mean you were not there, it means that I failed in finding you.

[Cube]

Samara is essentially a crimefighter who follows a unique and very strict code.

 

She travels the galaxy righting wrongs. To her, ever action is either "good" or "evil" (nothing in between) and she determines the justice (usually death).

[Rummy]

I honestly don't know which side to vote with. Neither side has anything truly concrete so it really is down to instincts. Would people prefer to vote no lynch for this phase? It won't really work in the town's favour all that much but it would at least stop us from lynching a townie.

 

Go with Ganepark.

 

Seriously, we can't decide of these two today; let's lynch Ganepark. He hammered aqui1a, has been rather quiet(classic mafia tactic ), and has a convinient alibi for last night in targetting DuD when we knew DuD wouldn't be targettable and that this info would not be confirmable - I'd hazard a guess that he actually targetted mr-paul.

 

Rummy and Sheikahs stories only tie in with each other, so if they're lying we have a killer and a roleblocker.

 

Not completely, Magnus' and Peeps info somewhat ties in with my story. I can see where you're coming from however. Unless Sheikah can somehow confirm this third party protector(by outing them, or them coming forward) I don't think anyone is going to go with it on just my word. Which, again, I'm not saying means he was protected. I just couldn't find him myself, nobody else seems to have had that trouble iirc.

[Sheikah]

I am an Asari called Samara - some blue bint who looks like something from Avatar.

 

I have 2 powers, one is to reflect, the other is to target. I haven't used the reflect power, statistically it seemed less likely to get a result earlier in the game.

 

As close as what my PM said without quoting is as follows:

 

I tracked Sheikah, he was waiting in my room for me to show up. Sheikah did not find anything because I was untargettable.

 

Then you are a liar, as I was untargetable. Jimbob told me that I was immune to tracking last night when I double checked this with him. Further, Rummy could not reach me, and from the sound of his writeup it was not due to a direct roleblock or redirect.

 

So @DuD, you want me to believe that this happened:

 

- Dedede is a tracker and happened to track the one person who comes out to accuse Yvonne.

 

- Yvonne is also a tracker of sorts (never rushed to deny targeting me when accused, let's not forget), and happened to target the exact right person to exonerate himself by validating Dedede as soon as he himself is accused of being scum.

 

- Rummy is making this whole thing up about not reaching me, whereas you two both magically can. Yes, Rummy doesn't want to commit to saying I was blanket untargetable, but his writeup doesn't suggest to me that he was screwed with.

 

I'd like to draw everybody's attention to very valid point:

 

If Yvonne reverse tracked Dedede to corroborate his info then he should have failed because Dedede claims to have been untargetable!

 

So what are we to believe? That both Yvonne and Dedede are trackers (who tracked the exact same person, a person Rummy could not reach?

 

How about, whoever the protector is, if they don't want to reveal themselves, target me again tonight. Then someone else can target me too. The crux of DuD's bleeting is that there can't possibly be another protector, which I know to be bollocks.

 

Let's also not forget that DuD claims to be untargetable on even nights, while Dedede claims to have been untargetable last night. So if they're going to accuse of extra protection being suspicious, they should look to themselves first. Given they both have protection to some degree and that I think they're both Mafia, clearly the Mafia have a high degree of protection. It wouldn't surprise me if therefore if there was another townie capable of protection (even if it was 3 uses like my cop role).

 

 

In fact, fuck it. The town won't commit which is disappointing. I confess that the text here is long and tedious, but the important stuff is there if you dig. I'm more use dead to you guys right now. Once my lynch happens you'll see Yvonne and Dedede are liars.

 

So Yvonne, DuD and Dedede - keep your votes on. Yvonne and Dedede will be lynched after me, so long as my lynch happens.

 

Join in all:

 

Change Vote: Sheikah

[Rummy]

Ok, I'll take the argument about Yvonne shouldn't have reached Dedede. I'll ChangeVote:Yvonne. Tbh I'm not sure how Jimbob's designed the game, but there's almost too many powers for people - not necessarily bad, I've never seen such pandemonium and discussion in mafia in ages! It's almost so un-meta that meta doesn't hold any weight.

 

 

But seriously, I really really really want to lynch Ganepark at some point. Remember this if I die tonight.

[Sheikah]

Ok, I'll take the argument about Yvonne shouldn't have reached Dedede. I'll ChangeVote:Yvonne. Tbh I'm not sure how Jimbob's designed the game, but there's almost too many powers for people - not necessarily bad, I've never seen such pandemonium and discussion in mafia in ages! It's almost so un-meta that meta doesn't hold any weight.

 

 

But seriously, I really really really want to lynch Ganepark at some point. Remember this if I die tonight.

 

Right, I want people to be clear - if people believe me then all vote for Yvonne. If not, vote for me. Obviously I am grateful for support for voting Yvonne but if neither Yvonne nor I are lynched today then I don't see how town can win.

 

If no one is lynched the Mafia will likely kill tonight and then the same meek support for me will probably happen again next day. At least if I die tonight then you will have two Mafiosos to go for next day. Obviously Yvonne lynch would be preferable as we'd be one Mafia down and I'd be trusted without being killed.

 

I'll Remove Vote for now. If I don't get enough support I urge you all to vote for me.

[Mr-Paul]

Not saying right now, What do you do?

 

Not accepting that as an answer. Explain why you were untargetable or you can't expect anyone to believe what you say.

[DuD]

Good morning! OK so I'm going to lay this out now so we can put it to bed; Sheikah is lying. vote Sheikah

 

Let's start with some show and tell.

 

I am Kazumi Goto.

“I'm the best thief in the business, not the most famous. Need to watch my step to keep it that way.”

 

I can track and I can mirror track. The mafia gods spoke to me, and told me to mirror track myself N1 and N2. N1, my faith was faltering, but N2, I was given a message - Sheikah tried to target me and ended up at Jon Dedede. This is consistent with my role as I am told about redirections.

 

I can prove these powers if people need verification.

 

Now for Sheikah, 12 player game, two cops? And a cop that can ignore redirection? And get sane results while doing it?

I'm an easy kill from the info that's come out, granted, and my living situation hasn't helped as I'm intermittent, but the reality is that Sheikah has invented his role and his information just like Cube's invented information in the previous game. If he's town he's playing a reckless move and if he's mafia, he's trading his life for mine, as presumably you will nail him tomorrow if I die.

 

Further, a bit of meta information. I advised Jimbob about OP roles back when we messaged each other about design, and Sheikah's one is exactly the kind of thing I advised him to avoid.

So when did Yvonne say he targeted DeDeDe again?

I must have missed it.

[Sheikah]

So when did Yvonne say he targeted DeDeDe again?

I must have missed it.

 

- Why would a reverse tracker continuously track themself (both N1 and N2)? How is that helping town locate a killer? Yvonne dies and learns who targeted him - then can't convey it because he's dead! This is made up bollocks to help Yvonne exonerate himself.

- If the above was true, and I was instead sent to Dedede, why would a) Yvonne know I tried to target him if I never made it to him, and b) Why would Yvonne suddenly gain the ability to learn who I actually went to, given nothing in his power should allow him to directly track me?

- As I was protected I could not be sent to Jon Dedede. Ergo, both Jon's and Yvonne's info is false. Rummy could not target me, which strengthens my info.

- Jon certainly could not track me as I was protected against everything.

 

So question time everybody - Are you going to vote for Yvonne or me?

 

There needs to be enough votes to lynch one or the other. If town don't lynch one of them tonight they will learn nothing, the same arguments will repeat tomorrow and the Mafia will win shortly after.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Sheikah
Automerged doublepost

[DuD]

I know EEvilmurray has done it before. I used the same argument against his claim.. turned out he was telling the truth.

 

Who protected you?

 

DeDeDe is saying his info is corroborated by the write up yet your still saying it's wrong and your right.

 

DeDeDe's info has substance to it. if he is lying I will lynch his ass as he'll have no defence.

So I will agree with you in as far as a lynch is necessary to determine the liar.. find the liar, find the mafia.

[Sheikah]

I don't know who protected me. Funnily enough protectors have a habit of not making themselves known.

 

Reverse trackers might target themselves but Yvonne doing it twice in a row confirms my thoughts that it's made up to exonerate himself. He's not going to find any killers or roleblockers this way. And it's way too much of a coincidence that he would have the role and targeted correctly to just happen to verify Dedede's claim to save his own ass.

 

Jon's info is negated by Rummy's in my opinion. If Rummy cannot reach me, why would a redirector be able to?

 

I'm fed up with the writeup being brought in to validate Dedede. Have you considered that the person waiting for someone who never turned up is someone who targeted me?

[Cube]

So question time everybody - Are you going to vote for Yvonne or me?

 

If it comes down to it, at the end of the day I will flip a coin and vote. I'm obviously not the best person to make the choice, but a lynch is still probably the best option over letting this continue for another day.

 

As both sides have compelling arguments, I think a coin flip is fair.

[Sheikah]

@DuD why aren't you asking Dedede why he was untargetable too? Why is my protection so occult, whereas his is unworthy of mention?

 

If it comes down to it, at the end of the day I will flip a coin and vote. I'm obviously not the best person to make the choice, but a lynch is still probably the best option over letting this continue for another day.

 

As both sides have compelling arguments, I think a coin flip is fair.

 

If it comes down to it you should go with the majority and not split the vote. Like I say, if neither is lynched then it strongly benefits the Mafia. I'll be trusted whoever is lynched, but it's better if it's Yvonne.

[Rummy]

Jon's info is negated by Rummy's in my opinion. If Rummy cannot reach me, why would a redirector be able to?

 

Every single time you bring this up, I have to correct you. Every single time you bring it up, it makes me want to lynch you more. *I* could not reach you, yes; that alone and in itself does not mean that NOBODY could reach you - I have no idea if somehow I was interfered with. I am not saying nobody could reach you, only that *I* could not.

[Sheikah]

Every single time you bring this up, I have to correct you. Every single time you bring it up, it makes me want to lynch you more. *I* could not reach you, yes; that alone and in itself does not mean that NOBODY could reach you - I have no idea if somehow I was interfered with. I am not saying nobody could reach you, only that *I* could not.

 

Yes, which adds support to my point. If you couldn't reach me and don't have any info to say that says someone directly roleblocked or redirected you, then obviously it strengthens my claim.

 

If you want to lynch me, do it. If you believe his argument more than mine then lynch me. The town needs to know that I'm telling the truth one way or another.