Jonnas Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 I thought it was a good game. I liked that my role was one that depended on flavour. I started to phrase my PMs like JJ Jameson after a while (I may have exaggerated a little bit, though ). I liked the ideas in the game, though a 3-townie group in a small mafia is a tad too much, I agree. (Also, damn protectors always protecting themselves...)
Nintendohnut Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 I enjoyed the game too, despite not being involved as much as I would've liked. I only protected myself twice I believe, the first night because I didn't know who to trust (nothing had come out of the day phase) and last night because I thought I'd be a prime mafia target. I protected Cube a few times, as I thought he might've been bluffing about losing his powers and didn't want him to be killed. Sadly it didn't make much difference. Still, good game Peeps! It may have been slightly overpowered, but the fact that the mafia were confident enough to go for a lynch train suggests they thought they had it wrapped up, so maybe it wasn't as unbalanced as it appears at the end.
Sheikah Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) You got rid of my investigation power rather quickly, and someone was using Tales to do their bigging throughout most of this game. Jon Dedede could have passed on this information, using us two as pawns. But then if one of us was Mafia why wouldn't we kill one of you so that you didn't have the power to two-against-one vote to kill one of us? Additionally, you imply that as you lost your power quickly that it could have been the result of a Mafia teammate. Question - does this mean you were all initially told each other's powers by Peeps? If you really thought one of you could be Mafia then I don't see why you would tell your teammates you were a cop so early on. And if you didn't tell them (ie. all teammates knew each other's abilities by way of Peeps) then you would have died N1. If we knew you were a cop from the start you wouldn't have lived to D2, at least not if we could have helped it. :p Again not a direct confirmation you're all town, but a pretty good indicator. Edited February 26, 2013 by Sheikah
Nintendohnut Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 I think you're kind of missing the point about the team trusting each other. You've suggested that the best system if there had been a traitor would've been to kill the other members. In fact, a much better system would be for the mafia mole to direct them away from his team mates, gather information and share it with the mafia, and then convince them to use the killing power to get rid of someone innocent. They would all lose their powers and pose no threat to the mafia at all, and seeing as they probably wouldn't be able to talk any more, they would likely be trusting of the other two for the rest of the game (as long as the mole planted the killing idea gently enough). I've literally played the role before. I've been a mafia mole in a townie group, AND I've been in a townie group which contained a mole, AND I've been in a townie group which (it turned out) didn't contain a mole, but I sure as hell didn't trust my team mate. In fact, while posting one thing in the forum, I actually PMd the GM to send a different target because I didn't trust my teammates. Basically, I'm suggesting two things. First, that the townie group shouldn't have assumed that their team mates were also townie, regardless of whether their powers were posted in a thread by Peeps. Second, that if the mafia had a mole inside a townie group, killing the other members of that group not only loses the mafia a huge tactical opportunity, it also means the mafia would waste a night removing protection. Had that been the case (and I know it wasn't so this is all irrelevant), killing Cube night 1 would've been a terrible decision, even if the mafia knew he was an alignment investigator!
Sheikah Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) I think you're kind of missing the point about the team trusting each other. You've suggested that the best system if there had been a traitor would've been to kill the other members. In fact, a much better system would be for the mafia mole to direct them away from his team mates, gather information and share it with the mafia, and then convince them to use the killing power to get rid of someone innocent. They would all lose their powers and pose no threat to the mafia at all, and seeing as they probably wouldn't be able to talk any more, they would likely be trusting of the other two for the rest of the game (as long as the mole planted the killing idea gently enough). I've literally played the role before. I've been a mafia mole in a townie group, AND I've been in a townie group which contained a mole, AND I've been in a townie group which (it turned out) didn't contain a mole, but I sure as hell didn't trust my team mate. In fact, while posting one thing in the forum, I actually PMd the GM to send a different target because I didn't trust my teammates. Basically, I'm suggesting two things. First, that the townie group shouldn't have assumed that their team mates were also townie, regardless of whether their powers were posted in a thread by Peeps. Second, that if the mafia had a mole inside a townie group, killing the other members of that group not only loses the mafia a huge tactical opportunity, it also means the mafia would waste a night removing protection. Had that been the case (and I know it wasn't so this is all irrelevant), killing Cube night 1 would've been a terrible decision, even if the mafia knew he was an alignment investigator! Sorry but I don't agree in this particular case that directing the team would be better than an early end to Cube, if one of the team was Mafia. Cube was an alignment investigator - at the end of the day like you said, you're free to submit your own targets so the Mafia would have had had no control who he decided to investigate. I simply don't believe for a second that if you knew your teammate was a cop that you would leave him alive. Sure you can try convince your team to make a kill but chances are they won't bite for a while since you need some time before they'll risk using that. No, far safer than the potential gain of them killing one townie some point in the game is to remove the cop straight away. Cube got me on N2 so that would pretty much negate any town kill they could have made later. Also Tales being alive was useful to Mafia as he was a target for control, so making all the team lose their powers wasn't completely beneficial. Also note that if Cube was killed on N1, I don't think Tales would auto assume Mafia. Often the N1 kill is assumed to be random. Lastly I'm not saying always trust your teammates. I'm saying that in these circumstances, by about D2, it was likely that all players were town based on all I've said. Edited February 27, 2013 by Sheikah
Nintendohnut Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 Sorry but I don't agree in this particular case that directing the team would be better than an early end to Cube, if one of the team was Mafia. Cube was an alignment investigator - at the end of the day like you said, you're free to submit your own targets so the Mafia would have had had no control who he decided to investigate. I simply don't believe for a second that if you knew your teammate was a cop that you would leave him alive. Sure you can try convince your team to make a kill but chances are they won't bite for a while since you need some time before they'll risk using that. No, far safer than the potential gain of them killing one townie some point in the game is to remove the cop straight away. Cube got me on N2 so that would pretty much negate any town kill they could have made later. Also Tales being alive was useful to Mafia as he was a target for control, so making all the team lose their powers wasn't completely beneficial. Cool. Let's agree to disagree
Rummy Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 The thing about balance is it always differs in hindsight, and depending on your team's outcome. Tbh, I'd say that this game was perfectly balanced because it was almost literally determined on the flip of a coin. It was fortunate that night that aqui1a's targets were mr-paul and DuD, despite it not being his doing(ie making mr-paul kill DuD), it appeared exactly like it and lead to mr-paul's lynch. That's just such good coincidence, nothing at all related to mechanics. His choices and the town militia's choices matched up, and there was a coin flip involved that decided everything. If anything I felt before that that the mafia seemed so untouchable!
Jonnas Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 If it helps, I targeted the killer the night I died. If the mafia had killed anybody else, I would've outed Jimbob at the first opportunity.
Recommended Posts