Posted August 24, 2012 As I'm sure you all know, Breivik was sentenced to 21 years in jail. What's everyone's reaction? It's worth reading up on Norway's prison system. It's blood fascinating. Norway's controversial 'cushy prison' experiment - could it catch on in the UK? Can a prison possibly justify treating its inmates with saunas, sunbeds and deckchairs if that prison has the lowest reoffending rate in Europe? Live reports from Norway on the penal system that runs contrary to all our instincts - but achieves everything we could wish for. (Excuse the Daily Mail link.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Cushy prison link: Obviously, it's a smaller country, so more room to do these kinds of things. Still, found it pretty curious/tragic how every prisoner photographed in the article was called an "inmate", as if they were not people anymore... Edited August 24, 2012 by Ville Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 I find myself in such a moral dilemma in such cases. From a rational standpoint I can easily understand people's wish to punish and even take revenge on especially mass murderers like Breivik and their not wanting such criminals to live out a "comfortable" life in prison (the level of comfortability heavily dependent on the country of the imprisonment, obviously), but on the other hand it has just always seemed completely ethically illogical to me to punish murder with murder, i.e. the death penalty (or worse, i.e. torture or some equivalent thereof, as has been suggested by some people). In addition I've always been a huge supporter of prison being rehabilitative and not, as is currently the case in a lot of countries, simply reinforcing the criminal lifestyle. But yeah, massive grey area to me, hence why I thought it'd make for interesting debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) The way I see it, the Norwegian people have conducted themselves very well over this. They risked making a martyr out of this guy, as I'm sure there are plenty of people in Europe who share his views. But, they kept the case relatively simple: This man committed murder and he must be tried. On that basis, he received the maximum life sentence possible for the crime committed. So, going by the rules of their legal system, he was given a fair trial and the right outcome was reached. It would have been farcical if he had gotten off with an "insane" classification. Some could argue that rules could have been bent/remade/broken to ensure he spends longer than 21 years in prison. But, I feel that would have been wrong. In a way, I feel that would have served as a victory for Breivik, to know that in some way he had caused a change in Norway, which is what he set out to do. As for their "cushy" prisons, I don't know anything about it. If they feel its working and they can back it up with facts, then who are we to criticise? Edited August 24, 2012 by Fierce_LiNk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 They can extend the sentence at the end of it if he is still deemed to be a danger to society. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 They can extend the sentence at the end of it if he is still deemed to be a danger to society. Yeah, they can do that. But, as of now, the maximum sentence that can be handed out is 21 years, which is what he received. What I was saying was that they didn't amend that law specifically for him, so he received the same treatment as any other person out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 Aye, when you look at the situation properly the decision makes a lot of sense. The media here will have a field day with it, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 ...Why does he keep doing the 'Black Power' sign? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 Isn't it also used by White Pride supporters? Or am I thinking of some other gesture? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 ...Why does he keep doing the 'Black Power' sign? Isn't it also used by White Pride supporters? Or am I thinking of some other gesture? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist It's actually pretty common. It's been used by all sorts of movements including black supremacists, white supremacists, feminists, socialists, and OWS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 21 does seem little, but I think they've done well in treating him just like any other criminal. The last thing he needs is more attention, and this piece of news actually puts the Norwegian prisons in the spotlight, not him. Regarding the Nordic prison system... If we can turn off our irrational senses of vengeance and retribution, it makes perfect sense. It may be hard to swallow, seeing a criminal you hate being sent to a "cushy" prison, but in the end, it is the best for everyone. Also, I recall reading about a similar prison in Austria, but it's been a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 21 does seem little, but I think they've done well in treating him just like any other criminal. The last thing he needs is more attention, and this piece of news actually puts the Norwegian prisons in the spotlight, not him. Regarding the Nordic prison system... If we can turn off our irrational senses of vengeance and retribution, it makes perfect sense. It may be hard to swallow, seeing a criminal you hate being sent to a "cushy" prison, but in the end, it is the best for everyone. Also, I recall reading about a similar prison in Austria, but it's been a while. And again we are in uncanny agreement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2012 I think it's a very good thing that their justice system is clearly set up to keep popular feelings and emotions away from doing more harm than good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 25, 2012 I guess I'm more of a vengeance kind of guy. If you don't kill him, at least cut off his hands and feet and poke out his eyes. Let him carry out his sentence living like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 25, 2012 Apologies in advance for not reading the rest of the thread and also being drunk. I feel that the concept of jail/prison is incredibly outdated. Our rehabilitation methods largely haven't changed in hundreds of years. It's pretty clear that imprisoning people does nothing to make the a better citizen and not reoffend when they get out. I completely realise and understand that someone who is found guilty of reckless driving and causes a major injury or death to someone should be punished; should that punishment be locking them up? What is that actually going to do for them when they get out? There must be a better method. Unfortuantely I don't have the answer, however, I don't feel that prison is the answer for all crimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 25, 2012 I can't wait till One Direction tour Norway. I'll probably just get a fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
