Magnus Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 If all it takes to find out if someone is indoctrinated is looking at their eyes, the protheans must have felt pretty silly when they were betrayed from within by indoctrinated protheans. Honestly, people are giving Mac Walters way too much credit. Have you read his comic books?
ViPeR Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Actually made it into BBC news...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17444719.
LegoMan1031 Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 That point where Shepard is randomly bleeding form the same position she shot Anderson is a really, really good one. This post appears to have been overlooked (sorry if someone else has mentioned it since). Going from memory I do seem to remember that happening but I never registered it in my head! Another excellent point!! Actually made it into BBC news...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17444719. Lol.
flameboy Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 This post appears to have been overlooked (sorry if someone else has mentioned it since). Going from memory I do seem to remember that happening but I never registered it in my head! Another excellent point!! Lol. Yeah I kind of did notice that but thought nothing of it, the whole anderson shooting scene was so odd.
Cube Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/ As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility. I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game. Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that. To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback. Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue. The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better. Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary. If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback. As artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support. Thank you for your feedback – we are listening.
flameboy Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/ All pretty much makes sense. I do hope they don't go whole hog and make a super happy ending. I mean they've said for a while that the theme of 3 certainly was sacrafice and you only have to look at the paragon decisions that can mean death. Likewise I hope they don't explain absolutely everything we need some kind questions still lingering....just maybe not ones caused by blatant plot holes. I also hope they don't backtrack too much on the endings each having bitter sweet nature. Hell you wanna destory the Reapers why shouldn't you lose the mass relays they created?
Magnus Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 At this point, all I want is an interview with Mac Walters explaining the thought process behind the the ending. I suspect the answer would be, "well, I'd watched The Matrix the night before...".
Aimless Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 At this point, all I want is an interview with Mac Walters explaining the thought process behind the the ending. I suspect the answer would be, "well, I'd watched The Matrix the night before...". You have seen the piece of paper, right? That seems to lay out the thought process pretty clearly.
ViPeR Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 If they can't understand why the endings are bad in the first place then there's something wrong.
Magnus Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 You have seen the piece of paper, right? That seems to lay out the thought process pretty clearly. The Matrix --> plenty of alcohol --> drunken scribblings --> wake up the next morning with the ending scrawled on a piece of paper. "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE"
ViPeR Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Almost as if they intentionally wanted to piss people off.
Aimless Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 To be fair I imagine a lot of plots share similar origins. The ending's issue is one of execution, which they can hopefully resolve — or at least make less abrasive — with a director's cut. Just whatever you do, BioWare, don't condemn the expansion of the ending to a Dark Horse comic. That goes beyond honest mistake.
Magnus Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Oh God, that would be hilarious. Now I don't know what to wish for.
flameboy Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I feel like this could disprove the indoctrination theory....if that was the real reason they could be a lot more coy about it and say look things will be answered eventually. Whereas this full out statement doesn't suggest this. UNLESS they are only referring to a reworking of the crew segments and alterations to the post decision. I guess also even a knowing piece of dialogue here or there could make a huge difference. I don't have any problem with us not knowing the true nature of the reapers yet.
Aimless Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 The indoctrination theory has always been disappointed fans clutching at emergency induction ports. Does some of the reasoning make sense? Sure, but rationalisation doesn't equal intent; http://squallsdead.com is a fine example of this. Frankly such conspiratorial storytelling is completely outside BioWare's wheelhouse, the evidence provided for such a theory being far more easily explained by the realities of game development and simple human error. As an ending it's also even less fulfilling then the one we actually got unless it's twinned with with 'true ending' DLC, which we aren't going to see.
Cube Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I prefer "the end was a dream and we didn't actually get an ending" to the one we actually got.
flameboy Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 The indoctrination theory has always been disappointed fans clutching at emergency induction ports. Does some of the reasoning make sense? Sure, but rationalisation doesn't equal intent; http://squallsdead.com is a fine example of this. Frankly such conspiratorial storytelling is completely outside BioWare's wheelhouse, the evidence provided for such a theory being far more easily explained by the realities of game development and simple human error. As an ending it's also even less fulfilling then the one we actually got unless it's twinned with with 'true ending' DLC, which we aren't going to see. I did intially think the same but now I'm not so sure. How else do you explain the weird noises and the swirling black mist during the illusive man conversations, the weird repeating of lines during the chat with space baby? A few other things too but Also the still unexplained black out in Arrival? I still maintain I liked the ending just can see where calls could be made to fine tune the dialogue as such to better explain and fill plot holes. I still don't really think that the ending renders all your choices throughout the game meaningless this is an event of galactic importance so what if the fact you went shooting with garrus didn't reflect in the ending? the choices still mattered for the journey....Sure they need more than they had but I'm not sure to the extent people expected.
Magnus Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 If the indoctrination theory is true, then presumably Shepard never made it to the Citadel (seeing as how the fact that he/she wakes up in the rubble on Earth if you pick the right ending is such an important part of the theory), so he or she never opened it and the Reapers were never defeated. The Reapers probably destroyed the Crucible while Shepard was busy dreaming about Joker and some grandfather trying to get his grandson to pay for DLC. Eh, I guess it's not much worse than the real ending. I still don't really think that the ending renders all your choices throughout the game meaningless this is an event of galactic importance so what if the fact you went shooting with garrus didn't reflect in the ending? Well, it's more things like making peace between the quarians and the geth so the quarians can finally return to Rannoch, and then stranding all/most of them on Earth.
flameboy Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) If the indoctrination theory is true, then presumably Shepard never made it to the Citadel (seeing as how the fact that he/she wakes up in the rubble on Earth if you pick the right ending is such an important part of the theory), so he or she never opened it and the Reapers were never defeated. The Reapers probably destroyed the Crucible while Shepard was busy dreaming about Joker and some grandfather trying to get his grandson to pay for DLC. Eh, I guess it's not much worse than the real ending. Well who knows how long in real terms that indoctrination scene was it might have been mere seconds in the real world and shepard can get out of rubble and up to the citadel and sort it out. EIDT: this article sheds further light and has another youtube vid that furthers leds its weight to this theory: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/21/did-the-real-mass-effect-3-ending-go-over-everyones-heads/ Also... And I did in fact make the “wrong” choice according to this, and I was disturbed when I realized that two of the three options, controlling the Reapers and combining organic and synthetic life, were also the aims of the indoctrinated Illusive Man and Saren respectively. Uh oh. Puts laid to my idea about the sythesis being the pure ending lol I never played one and didn't really realise this was Saren's plan I thought he just wanted to work with them. Edited March 21, 2012 by flameboy
Cube Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Even if it wasn't planned, the theory the fans have come up with to explain why it's so wrong actually gives them an opportunity to simply try again, should they want to.
ViPeR Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 It's pretty crazy how well that Indoctrination theory fits. If it's not the case, I'm still making it my ending.
flameboy Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I watched this properly now even though it does make more loose links it does also give some stronger links, like its analysis of the conversation between Anderson/Illusive Man/Shepard where by your responses don't actually seem to be like your talking to the Illusive man and when it's made out that Anderson is telling you that your indoctrinated not that the Illusive man is.... For me it's getting to the point where are far to many pieces that fit for indoctrination, maybe they truly did think they had demonstrated this appropriately when really they hadn't if people got this angry.
Aimless Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I did intially think the same but now I'm not so sure. How else do you explain the weird noises and the swirling black mist during the illusive man conversations, the weird repeating of lines during the chat with space baby? A few other things too but Also the still unexplained black out in Arrival? Confirmation bias is largely to blame, people only looking for evidence that fits the theory. I'm not entirely sure what you mean about the Illusive Man scene, as during that Shepard is explicitly indoctrinated. By your second point I assume you're referring to Casper's voice being backed by Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale, to which I suspect the boring answer is that they have those two actors on retainer so it made sense to use them to give the ol' deus ex machina a greater sense of otherness. As for Arrival, I suspect the blackout was a pacing and plot issue: they needed to ratchet up the tension by not having long left on the countdown clock, plus if you still had several days before the Reaper arrival there's no reason you couldn't have warned the nearby Batarian colonies to evacuate; the DLC very specifically doesn't allow you to get through to them, even if you try.
ViPeR Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I guess we'll find out in April....probably the 1st.
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