Jonnas Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 On 5/18/2020 at 6:17 AM, Glen-i said: Reveal hidden contents There's no major punishment for sparing the asterisk holders here. Do whatever you like. Chapter 5 is just one big opportunity to get any jobs you missed. There's a few minor differences in the cutscenes, but nothing major. You seem to be taking the whole "wake the crystals again" quite well. Most people really start to hate the game at this point. You've probably also realised why I thought it was interesting you did Vampire Castle immediately. I don't think the developers anticipated people actually getting the Vampire job in Chapter 4. If you went to fight him again, you'd notice it's the only fight that isn't harder than the original battle. Expand Reveal hidden contents Oh yeah, didn't even think of the idea that the rematches are there for those who missed them. Makes sense, with how little everything's changed. I'm guessing we're supposed to reawaken the crystals, the pillar of light reappears, the loop starts again, and that's when the characters decide that "A'ight, doing the exact same thing expecting a a different result clearly didn't work, let's actually think". Also, that might be the opportunity to do something actually new with the asterisk holders (hopefully). The Vampire Castle thing makes more sense in Chapter 5, too. The sidequest, the lore dump, and the fight, all probably work better during this lull time (especially since Airy's getting more nagging by the second, so the reveal works better while she's like this). However, I could see this point of no return coming from a mile away, so I bothered to the castle at that point in Ch.4. I noticed some of the monsters I gained Blue Magic Genomes from are absent, and I don't know if I'll see them again, so I'm thinking, they made the sidequest available then to learn all that before the time travel... which makes me further pissed off at how they designed this job! (Though, learning two Genomes from DeRosso himself was absolutely delightful. Rereading the bestiary, Energy Burst came from Chaugmar, and it's super useful. Also, the Bestiary outright tells you which moves are Genomes if you read between the lines!) To be honest, I didn't know at first how to feel about "wake the crystals again", because that bothered me from a story perspective first and foremost (stop being dumb and put Airy in a cage!). Unless I'm missing something, it should be as simple as going back to the temples, possibly refighting those easy bosses (probably, since the Bestiary tells me they have Genomes), mashing X, and be done with it. The second thing that bothered me was what I mentioned previously, about the rematches having nothing especially new. I can see why it would bother people: after the Earth Crystal, we're sent to a climactic battle with a major reveal, followed by a lull moment (if you can call all of Ch.5 a "moment"), and that can feel like a letdown. A lot of people prefer going straight to the next story bit, and don't like lull moments, which is why the Triforce Hunt in Wind Waker is so infamous (another large lull moment). There's a reason "fetch quest" is a dirty word, and it's because players only see moments like these as "go here, now go there" parts where the story slows down (though those players should hate Ch.3 too, because fetching Egil 20 times in a row is as annoying as I made it sound). Me, I'm usually patient with these things, and the rematches have been giving me some catharsis, JP, and opportunities to test new stuff. I admit, the lull moment should've ideally come between the Earth Crystal and the Alternis battle, but I don't see how that could've worked.
Glen-i Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 On 5/18/2020 at 8:13 PM, Jonnas said: Reveal hidden contents Oh yeah, didn't even think of the idea that the rematches are there for those who missed them. Makes sense, with how little everything's changed. I'm guessing we're supposed to reawaken the crystals, the pillar of light reappears, the loop starts again, and that's when the characters decide that "A'ight, doing the exact same thing expecting a a different result clearly didn't work, let's actually think". Also, that might be the opportunity to do something actually new with the asterisk holders (hopefully). The Vampire Castle thing makes more sense in Chapter 5, too. The sidequest, the lore dump, and the fight, all probably work better during this lull time (especially since Airy's getting more nagging by the second, so the reveal works better while she's like this). However, I could see this point of no return coming from a mile away, so I bothered to the castle at that point in Ch.4. I noticed some of the monsters I gained Blue Magic Genomes from are absent, and I don't know if I'll see them again, so I'm thinking, they made the sidequest available then to learn all that before the time travel... which makes me further pissed off at how they designed this job! (Though, learning two Genomes from DeRosso himself was absolutely delightful. Rereading the bestiary, Energy Burst came from Chaugmar, and it's super useful. Also, the Bestiary outright tells you which moves are Genomes if you read between the lines!) To be honest, I didn't know at first how to feel about "wake the crystals again", because that bothered me from a story perspective first and foremost (stop being dumb and put Airy in a cage!). Unless I'm missing something, it should be as simple as going back to the temples, possibly refighting those easy bosses (probably, since the Bestiary tells me they have Genomes), mashing X, and be done with it. The second thing that bothered me was what I mentioned previously, about the rematches having nothing especially new. I can see why it would bother people: after the Earth Crystal, we're sent to a climactic battle with a major reveal, followed by a lull moment (if you can call all of Ch.5 a "moment"), and that can feel like a letdown. A lot of people prefer going straight to the next story bit, and don't like lull moments, which is why the Triforce Hunt in Wind Waker is so infamous (another large lull moment). There's a reason "fetch quest" is a dirty word, and it's because players only see moments like these as "go here, now go there" parts where the story slows down (though those players should hate Ch.3 too, because fetching Egil 20 times in a row is as annoying as I made it sound). Me, I'm usually patient with these things, and the rematches have been giving me some catharsis, JP, and opportunities to test new stuff. I admit, the lull moment should've ideally come between the Earth Crystal and the Alternis battle, but I don't see how that could've worked. Expand Reveal hidden contents Don't worry, no Genome is permanently missable. You'll get your chance. I wish I could go into more detail, but I have to be wary of spoilers, so I'm gonna hold back for now. Later though, because I feel Chapter 5 would be a lot better if one thing was changed. 1
Jonnas Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Hasten World has to be the most OP technique I've unlocked so far. When I got "Slow World", I imagined the opposite would be there too, but not like this! I thought it'd be an extra BP every two turns, but this is bonkers! It doesn't just make me stronger, it also wrecks the enemy AI, too. I've complained about Special Move parts being overpowered before (since there's no interesting combos to be had, nor setup choices to make), and I think Hasten World is the only Job Skill that comes close to that. It should cost 4 or 5 slots, to be perfectly honest. Reveal hidden contents First of all, I had thought Ominas Crowe was the easiest rematch (cast Reflect on everybody, and watch him be helpless), but Kamiizumi has taken that dubious honour, and it's all because of Hasten World. It guarantees he'll always have positive BP, and thus never do a Bushido counter, so my Ninja Tiz kept using Kairai on him to make him target Edea (a Swordmaster, using Know Thine Enemy and Ironclad every turn), and a slower Ringabel kept using Cure/Cura on her at the end of the turn. Agnés was on buffing duty (not that I needed it). At least with Crowe, I needed to pay attention to renew the Reflect, but this fight I left on Auto, hitting Kamiizumi with 9999 every turn with this Swordmaster/Ninja/Salvemaker/Performer combo. Probably should've worked the Pirate somewhere in there for full irony. Also, the Spiritmaster's skills trivialise Alternis' Bane moves, too. Probably would've done that the first time around too, but I didn't know what the Dark Knight did back then. But enough of that, I need to rant: Yulyana: "Children, I'm 1900 years old, and I was visited by an angel with Agnés' face way back then" Tiz&Agnés: *surprised Pikachu face* (the same one they do during party chat)Me: "WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS ALREADY!" Alternis: "I've come for that peculiar Fairy! She's been deceiving you, vestal!"Me: "YES!"The party: "I wonder what he meant by that"Me: "ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?" Ringabel: "We should probably rethink this crystal quest we've been repeating"Me: "Okay, just like I predic-"Agnés: "We should reawaken them again"Me: Iamsurroundedbyidiots.gif I am fuming at the idiocy right now. The map is back to what it was in Chapter 5, and the boss rematches seem the same (I've seen some new dialogue, but there's no interest in doing the boss fights themselves again right after Ch.5). The excuses to ignore diplomacy are getting flimsier too. Edea: "Heinkel, you can't hurt Agnés!"Heinkel: "...I wasn't planning to. My orders are to protect her."Edea: "Oh, that's nice-"Heinkel: "HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW ABOUT THE ORDERS I LITERALLY JUST GOT? I MUST FIGHT BOTH YOU AND THE VESTAL! Also, my superior Alternis seems to be with you, he'll die too." I didn't do the fight. The characters' stupidity is through the roof right now. The only intriguing thing is that the Venus sisters aren't on the new map, but at this point I'm expecting them to pop up, explicitly describe us the rest of the plot, get ignored, and then start a fight over Egil's custody or something. And I still don't have the last asterisk! It would still make sense for it to be Yulyana (and hey, maybe in this universe he'll start a fight over the Bravo Bikini), but if it's Tiz's brother, that'd be amazing. Plot developments have been very frustrating.
Glen-i Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) Reveal hidden contents If I'm remembering right, Chapter 6 is the first point where you can get the final job. One of those side quests should be in a place that never had one before, try and find it. Once you've done that, move on through the main plot until the next chapter. Also, you're not the only one who thinks that the characters here are really dumb. Edited May 24, 2020 by Glen-i 2
Jonnas Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 Due to a review, my playthrough here got slow. Still... I have finally unlocked the last job and... it's kind of unimpressive. The passive skills are great, but the active skills only buff yourself for horrendous MP, which is... not great. Other skills can do that, and are versatile enough to include the whole party. On the other hand, I decided to finally use the Merchant class in a fight (I had been low-key grinding it in the background for More Money), the intention being that the boss was undead, and I could use Big Pharma to profit off of him (and I'm pretty sure I did)... Holy cow, Low Leverage and Full Leverage are immense! You can use these to manipulate damage up the wazoo in your favour, or finagle just enough with BP costs to reinvent everything. Low Leverage in particular is hilarious, because it's like a permanent defence boost. As luck would have it, my teammates for that fight had Performer, Pirate, Valkyrie, and Vampire, and all of them were affected in different ways: Low Leverage allows Pirate to apply its debuffs without wasting much MP (as well as use Double Damage for affordable MP). Plus, if your setup is stronger than 9999 a turn, high damage classes can tip the battle in your favour while LL is active. On the other hand, due to a speed mishap, I accidentally used Full Leverage before the Pirate was supposed to attack thrice with Double Damage... so he only attacked once But FL should still boost regular attacks without extra cost, at least; Low Leverage --> Valkyries jump for half the BP (and for two turns, with the right setup) --> Full Leverage --> Valkyries fall --> Low Leverage again; During LL, "My Hero" reduces its cost to 1BP. That's it, the BP gains are unchanged. I can't believe the developers allowed things to round out like this; Other than MP cost, White Wind was unaffected by Leverages... I have to assume the same is true for Minus Strike and Phoenix Flight. And I just scratched the surface. Heck, I can see Ninjas being great during FL, and Knights being great during LL. It's amazing, that the hitherto worst class in the game overhauled the meta like this. Reveal hidden contents "Airy Lies". HAH! Even the title screen's shouting at the main characters. Funny, because at one point, this thread's title made me think "Flying Fairy? Mo'like LYING FAIRY!", and now I'm glad I didn't type it, because that's apparently the joke the developers intended all along But truth be told, the slow buildup towards Ringabel regaining his memory, the increasingly blatant hints of Airy's treachery, the way everybody figures it out individually, and the chilling realization that we're all unspokenly hostage, playing cloak&dagger with each other... It's actually excellent. I've never seen a traitor reveal quite like this, where a traditional RPG adventure shifts into a suspenseful spy thriller, where I know they know she is, but I don't know if she knows they know, on account of everybody knowing how to act like nobody knows. Speaking of which, Ringabel manipulating events to get a covert message to Agnés and cover it up with the joke about the unresolved romance subplot, all with the quality banter of party chat (and Edea having THE most fitting reactions)... was absolutely amazing. It's clever, funny, built up correctly... it's genius writing. I swear, this game's writing has the highest highs and the lowest lows. Speaking of high, the Conjurer Yulyana sidequest might just be the best in the game. They're finally taking advantage of the "parallel universes" plot device to ask piercing questions and permit character growth. Plus, Braev actually had a legitimately good reason to fight, for once. Oh, and fighting the Venus sisters all at once? YES, finally, a creative use of the rematches. Finally, I'm now at a dilemma: on one hand, the game is strongly suggesting I ought to disobey Airy, press X a lot more, and break a crystal. On the other hand, it's also subtly hinting (via her wings) that I should do two more worlds of this. Logically, and following the story's themes, I should just break one of the things and get out of the loop, fucking Airy completely over. On the other hand, if there's one thing Bravely Default has been consistent at, is prioritising videogame logic over in-universe common sense: I somehow think following Airy like a chump ("Until the very end of it all!", like she said during the opening) leads to a more satisfying conclusion (because it will naturally lead to us seeing more worlds, sidequests, items, hidden bosses, etc). @Glen-i, if you can answer me this on the broadest of terms, am I right in thinking I'll create a split in the story if I break a crystal? Would you advise me to copy my save file and try to do both? Or is breaking a crystal this early just an amusing Game Over?
Glen-i Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 On 6/2/2020 at 11:28 PM, Jonnas said: Due to a review, my playthrough here got slow. Still... I have finally unlocked the last job and... it's kind of unimpressive. The passive skills are great, but the active skills only buff yourself for horrendous MP, which is... not great. Other skills can do that, and are versatile enough to include the whole party. On the other hand, I decided to finally use the Merchant class in a fight (I had been low-key grinding it in the background for More Money), the intention being that the boss was undead, and I could use Big Pharma to profit off of him (and I'm pretty sure I did)... Holy cow, Low Leverage and Full Leverage are immense! You can use these to manipulate damage up the wazoo in your favour, or finagle just enough with BP costs to reinvent everything. Low Leverage in particular is hilarious, because it's like a permanent defence boost. As luck would have it, my teammates for that fight had Performer, Pirate, Valkyrie, and Vampire, and all of them were affected in different ways: Low Leverage allows Pirate to apply its debuffs without wasting much MP (as well as use Double Damage for affordable MP). Plus, if your setup is stronger than 9999 a turn, high damage classes can tip the battle in your favour while LL is active. On the other hand, due to a speed mishap, I accidentally used Full Leverage before the Pirate was supposed to attack thrice with Double Damage... so he only attacked once But FL should still boost regular attacks without extra cost, at least; Low Leverage --> Valkyries jump for half the BP (and for two turns, with the right setup) --> Full Leverage --> Valkyries fall --> Low Leverage again; During LL, "My Hero" reduces its cost to 1BP. That's it, the BP gains are unchanged. I can't believe the developers allowed things to round out like this; Other than MP cost, White Wind was unaffected by Leverages... I have to assume the same is true for Minus Strike and Phoenix Flight. And I just scratched the surface. Heck, I can see Ninjas being great during FL, and Knights being great during LL. It's amazing, that the hitherto worst class in the game overhauled the meta like this. Reveal hidden contents "Airy Lies". HAH! Even the title screen's shouting at the main characters. Funny, because at one point, this thread's title made me think "Flying Fairy? Mo'like LYING FAIRY!", and now I'm glad I didn't type it, because that's apparently the joke the developers intended all along But truth be told, the slow buildup towards Ringabel regaining his memory, the increasingly blatant hints of Airy's treachery, the way everybody figures it out individually, and the chilling realization that we're all unspokenly hostage, playing cloak&dagger with each other... It's actually excellent. I've never seen a traitor reveal quite like this, where a traditional RPG adventure shifts into a suspenseful spy thriller, where I know they know she is, but I don't know if she knows they know, on account of everybody knowing how to act like nobody knows. Speaking of which, Ringabel manipulating events to get a covert message to Agnés and cover it up with the joke about the unresolved romance subplot, all with the quality banter of party chat (and Edea having THE most fitting reactions)... was absolutely amazing. It's clever, funny, built up correctly... it's genius writing. I swear, this game's writing has the highest highs and the lowest lows. Speaking of high, the Conjurer Yulyana sidequest might just be the best in the game. They're finally taking advantage of the "parallel universes" plot device to ask piercing questions and permit character growth. Plus, Braev actually had a legitimately good reason to fight, for once. Oh, and fighting the Venus sisters all at once? YES, finally, a creative use of the rematches. Finally, I'm now at a dilemma: on one hand, the game is strongly suggesting I ought to disobey Airy, press X a lot more, and break a crystal. On the other hand, it's also subtly hinting (via her wings) that I should do two more worlds of this. Logically, and following the story's themes, I should just break one of the things and get out of the loop, fucking Airy completely over. On the other hand, if there's one thing Bravely Default has been consistent at, is prioritising videogame logic over in-universe common sense: I somehow think following Airy like a chump ("Until the very end of it all!", like she said during the opening) leads to a more satisfying conclusion (because it will naturally lead to us seeing more worlds, sidequests, items, hidden bosses, etc). @Glen-i, if you can answer me this on the broadest of terms, am I right in thinking I'll create a split in the story if I break a crystal? Would you advise me to copy my save file and try to do both? Or is breaking a crystal this early just an amusing Game Over? Expand Ah, you're finally thinking about it... Reveal hidden contents You don't need to make a second file, nothing will be missable if you go ahead with that idea. It's also not a Game Over. Whether you do that or continue to awaken the pillar of light is up to you. And that's all I'm saying on the matter. I want to see which choice you make. And then judge you on it. Oh, and now that you're up to this point in the story. A lot of those optional rematches are going to be a lot more interesting in battle. I recommend trying them from now on. They're some of the most fun fights in the game. "My Hero" is probably one of my favourite skills. The setup I had abused it to hell and high water! Again, in a different way to the way you're doing it. 1
Jonnas Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 On 6/3/2020 at 6:45 AM, Glen-i said: And then judge you on it. Expand I have found the joys of a double-shielded Templar. Judge me all you want. Reveal hidden contents ...just to watch him fidget. I swear, why is the writing so good, but only occasionally? That exchange is golden. You weren't kidding about the rematches, cool combos there. It's like this is the one reasonable world in the multiverse where everybody's nicer, healthier, and the fights are friendly bouts that don't need to end in senseless death. Ominas actually having friends and a pet (seeing him "Summoning Bahamut", only for a tiny-ass dragon to show up was the most hilarious letdown ever); Mephilia was taken off drugs and went through therapy and a journey of self-discovery with friends, which is super wholesome. Then Yulyana said "Let's gang up on these assholes!" and I unironically thought "Yeah, that's fair"; "I want to have a concert in my city" "HOW DARE YOU!?". I know the context of Khamer enslaving the populace, but in a vacuum, that fight was the pettiest of all. Still, nice to hear nobody died there, not even Khamer; "Our white and black contrast looks great! WE MUST FIGHT!" Never change, Braev. They even salvaged Victoria! Looking at the "girl power" exchange, I think Victoria would be far more tolerable if she was just a prissy overachiever, instead of a psychotic murderous child who attacks her own allies, disobeys orders, still somehow part of a military council, and also living with a creepy enabler who keeps making excuses for her. Man, that rant was a long time coming. Also, I figured out Qada's AI during my rematch with him. When he has 1 BP, he'll go "Dark Breath", then a normal attack, then a poison Hi-Potion. To counter this, I have Edea use Kairai to force him to attack her, Utsusemi to dodge Dark Breath, then "Know Thine Enemy" to counter the rest. I was causing around 16000 damage to Qada on a single turn's counters... during Low Leverage. "Know Thine Enemy" was the best name they could've given this skill, because I read that fat man like a book. Anyway, I've made my choice a while ago (just got sidetracked by the rematches): I don't want a blackened ocean, or still winds, or for Eternians to lose healthcare. But fuck Eisenberg, I'll destroy the fire crystal. 1
Glen-i Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 Oh man, I love Dual Shields! Sounds awful on paper, but then I figured out an amazing use for it and never looked back.
Jonnas Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 4:52 PM, Glen-i said: Oh man, I love Dual Shields! Sounds awful on paper, but then I figured out an amazing use for it and never looked back. Expand Protect Ally? Kairai? Shield Strike to beef up defence? Or is it that one Chivalry skill where you attack with your defence stat? Cool unconventional uses to be had. Reveal hidden contents Turns out, destroying the fire crystal cleared up the seas and wind. Ain't that peachy? Anyway, super happy with how the plot turned out there. Loved the fact that, instead of the party members slowly realising the truth, they took turns revealing how they already figured everything out (including Edea. Nice one, girl). I'd like to thank Airy for being as despicable as I hoped she'd be. I don't need moral ambiguity for this endgame. Bravely Default keeps its writing style to the end, with the final exchange between Airy and Agnés being a 10/10, and the one with Tiz being a 0/10. So, funny story. By Dark Aurora, I had mastered every job I wanted to master, so I switched everybody to Freelancers whenever their respective time came. To beat that dungeon, I just equipped everybody with their preferred weapons and gave them Vampire as a secondary job to wipe out random encounters (other than Ringabel, who was tasked with the Assassin's dagger, to kill those sturdy dinosaurs. He got Red Mage as a secondary, for healing duties). When the final battle came, I decided to save the game and waltz into Airy unchanged, just to scout and get an idea of what she had. In a way, fighting all of those trios of asterisk holders spoiled me, because I spammed the shit out of Fira and Fireballs, with a team of improvised Freelancers. No joke, I absolutely destroyed both of her forms like this. Ominas Crowe wishes he could burninate bugs like I just did. The only crazy thing I did was use one of my Megalixirs at one point. Like, damn, I finished off a JRPG final boss almost by accident. ...Or so I say, because between the game sending me back to before I broke the crystal, and Airy going on about a Lord Ouroboros (who, I'm guessing, is a serpent looking to bite his own tail once all the worlds are pierced?), I'm pretty sure there's another ending waiting for me when the counter on her wings reaches zero. I'll wait a bit before doing that, though. So yeah, for now I'm content.
Glen-i Posted June 12, 2020 Posted June 12, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 7:05 PM, Jonnas said: Protect Ally? Kairai? Shield Strike to beef up defence? Or is it that one Chivalry skill where you attack with your defence stat? Cool unconventional uses to be had. Reveal hidden contents Turns out, destroying the fire crystal cleared up the seas and wind. Ain't that peachy? Anyway, super happy with how the plot turned out there. Loved the fact that, instead of the party members slowly realising the truth, they took turns revealing how they already figured everything out (including Edea. Nice one, girl). I'd like to thank Airy for being as despicable as I hoped she'd be. I don't need moral ambiguity for this endgame. Bravely Default keeps its writing style to the end, with the final exchange between Airy and Agnés being a 10/10, and the one with Tiz being a 0/10. So, funny story. By Dark Aurora, I had mastered every job I wanted to master, so I switched everybody to Freelancers whenever their respective time came. To beat that dungeon, I just equipped everybody with their preferred weapons and gave them Vampire as a secondary job to wipe out random encounters (other than Ringabel, who was tasked with the Assassin's dagger, to kill those sturdy dinosaurs. He got Red Mage as a secondary, for healing duties). When the final battle came, I decided to save the game and waltz into Airy unchanged, just to scout and get an idea of what she had. In a way, fighting all of those trios of asterisk holders spoiled me, because I spammed the shit out of Fira and Fireballs, with a team of improvised Freelancers. No joke, I absolutely destroyed both of her forms like this. Ominas Crowe wishes he could burninate bugs like I just did. The only crazy thing I did was use one of my Megalixirs at one point. Like, damn, I finished off a JRPG final boss almost by accident. ...Or so I say, because between the game sending me back to before I broke the crystal, and Airy going on about a Lord Ouroboros (who, I'm guessing, is a serpent looking to bite his own tail once all the worlds are pierced?), I'm pretty sure there's another ending waiting for me when the counter on her wings reaches zero. I'll wait a bit before doing that, though. So yeah, for now I'm content. Expand None of the above. My use was a lot more straightforward. More on that later. Reveal hidden contents So yeah, funny story with me. I broke the crystal in chapter 5. The first opportunity I got. My jaw hit the floor, I had no idea what was going on. Then Airy bugged out and I felt like the cleverest person ever. I genuinely felt that I, as the player, totally messed up Airy's plan through my actions. (Ignoring the fact that it was a complete accident... I didn't think it would actually break) I struggled a lot more with that final boss than you did, mind. Probably because of a lower level and less jobs mastered. You should totally go for the other ending some time. It's pretty interesting. And there's still more tougher rematches to do. 1
Jonnas Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) On 6/12/2020 at 6:24 AM, Glen-i said: None of the above. My use was a lot more straightforward. More on that later. Expand I decided to read a few pages back, see how others handled their playthroughs. Interesting to see the different team options, like Grazza favouring Knights so much, or other people just going for a couple of jobs per character... And also, I found your team composition. Double Shields on the Performer? You little cheeky devil. You also mentioned using Mimic, which surprised me, so I looked it up, and wouldn't you know it, literally the only skill I haven't unlocked yet Those 9999 JP are really worth it, huh? (Posting my own setups might require a paragraph per character, though) Reveal hidden contents Also, you weren't kidding about the crystal hate! I totally get feeling daunted when you realise this is what the plot has become though, as my previous comment on "lull times" didn't really apply to this game after all. The game does feel like it enters stasis after Ch.5, especially with the rematches that must be done in a specific chapter, and worldbuilding that kinda falls apart at that point. Debug Mode even mentions that the original Japanese release didn't have the novelty rematches from Ch.7, and apparently Ch.8. It's mindboggling that the original was even more repetitive, but it does explain something: the way they were written, those Ch.7 rematches felt like extra material, like a slice-of-life manga or a radio drama, and those do tend to have sillier, more lighthearted writing. So that's it, it really was extra material, written after the initial release. I had to laugh at Sheikah's vitriolic hatred for the crystals, though. Like, not just the plot device, or the repetitiveness, he seemed to hate the presence of coloured rocks specifically. He called them "inanimate" at one point as if it were an insult They're just minerals! And kudos on H-o-T for calling out Ch.3 like it is, too. Totally with him on that. On an unrelated note, I decided to tackle the lowest levelled Nemesis in Norende: a Lv.80 Leviathan. Apparently, he's from 4 Heroes of Light, which makes sense, since he had unique music, a detailed look, and a well researched name (associating Leviathan with Envy is a relatively obscure piece of biblical trivia). Very interesting battle, but let me tell you, Blizzaja ignoring the Spiritmaster's Elemental protections is absolute rubbish (especially since the Fire&Ice Shield still works), but on the bright side, the resulting tries made me realise Vampires can learn it, so I did. Anyway, I ended up winning with one persistent Conjurer/Summoner Ringabel repeating Deus Ex for 9000+ damage every time, and three support units (Tiz as a Ninja/Vampire, Agnés as a Performer/White Mage, and Edea as a Templar/Salve-Maker). No Mimic as of right now, either. The secret is Summoning Substitute (the skill that auto-casts a summon every time the Summoner dies), with a dash of Rise From the Dead and See You in Hell for the other chars (best skill names ever, btw). Edited June 14, 2020 by Jonnas
Sheikah Posted June 15, 2020 Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) On 6/14/2020 at 10:15 PM, Jonnas said: I decided to read a few pages back, see how others handled their playthroughs. Interesting to see the different team options, like Grazza favouring Knights so much, or other people just going for a couple of jobs per character... And also, I found your team composition. Double Shields on the Performer? You little cheeky devil. You also mentioned using Mimic, which surprised me, so I looked it up, and wouldn't you know it, literally the only skill I haven't unlocked yet Those 9999 JP are really worth it, huh? (Posting my own setups might require a paragraph per character, though) Spoiler Also, you weren't kidding about the crystal hate! I totally get feeling daunted when you realise this is what the plot has become though, as my previous comment on "lull times" didn't really apply to this game after all. The game does feel like it enters stasis after Ch.5, especially with the rematches that must be done in a specific chapter, and worldbuilding that kinda falls apart at that point. Debug Mode even mentions that the original Japanese release didn't have the novelty rematches from Ch.7, and apparently Ch.8. It's mindboggling that the original was even more repetitive, but it does explain something: the way they were written, those Ch.7 rematches felt like extra material, like a slice-of-life manga or a radio drama, and those do tend to have sillier, more lighthearted writing. So that's it, it really was extra material, written after the initial release. I had to laugh at Sheikah's vitriolic hatred for the crystals, though. Like, not just the plot device, or the repetitiveness, he seemed to hate the presence of coloured rocks specifically. He called them "inanimate" at one point as if it were an insult They're just minerals! And kudos on H-o-T for calling out Ch.3 like it is, too. Totally with him on that. On an unrelated note, I decided to tackle the lowest levelled Nemesis in Norende: a Lv.80 Leviathan. Apparently, he's from 4 Heroes of Light, which makes sense, since he had unique music, a detailed look, and a well researched name (associating Leviathan with Envy is a relatively obscure piece of biblical trivia). Very interesting battle, but let me tell you, Blizzaja ignoring the Spiritmaster's Elemental protections is absolute rubbish (especially since the Fire&Ice Shield still works), but on the bright side, the resulting tries made me realise Vampires can learn it, so I did. Anyway, I ended up winning with one persistent Conjurer/Summoner Ringabel repeating Deus Ex for 9000+ damage every time, and three support units (Tiz as a Ninja/Vampire, Agnés as a Performer/White Mage, and Edea as a Templar/Salve-Maker). No Mimic as of right now, either. The secret is Summoning Substitute (the skill that auto-casts a summon every time the Summoner dies), with a dash of Rise From the Dead and See You in Hell for the other chars (best skill names ever, btw). Expand Hell yeah, crystals are dull as dish water (they are inanimate) and recycled as a plot device so many times across Final Fantasy / Square Enix games. I swear to god whenever the main writer goes on holiday for a Final Fantasy style game, "crystals" are used as a placeholder that nobody ever quite gets round to replacing. I associate them more with the very early years of Final Fantasy when they were much more prominent in the plot, and no surprise that those games generally have the weakest stories. Unfortunately though they do still pop up in more recent games from time to time, like this one. Thanks for reminding me though, I'd pretty much managed to forget this game. My god, what a flaming sack of shite the story is in this game (and the manner in which it plays out). The way the story goes down with all the repetition is one of the most egregiously disrespectful wastes of time across all the video games I've played! Edited June 15, 2020 by Sheikah
Jonnas Posted June 15, 2020 Posted June 15, 2020 On 6/15/2020 at 12:41 AM, Sheikah said: Hell yeah, crystals are dull as dish water (they are inanimate) and recycled as a plot device so many times across Final Fantasy / Square Enix games. I swear to god whenever the main writer goes on holiday for a Final Fantasy style game, "crystals" are used as a placeholder that nobody ever quite gets round to replacing. I associate them more with the very early years of Final Fantasy when they were much more prominent in the plot, and no surprise that those games generally have the weakest stories. Unfortunately though they do still pop up in more recent games from time to time, like this one. Expand They might be inanimate, but if they were moving around the world map, I'm betting your opinion of them would remain the same I'm guessing "Macguffins" is the term you were getting at? I'm aware of the classic crystals. They were in FFV, where they shatter super easily. FFIX has a dungeon made of crystals. FFVII is the most crystal-focused of them all (they may call it Materia, but they don't fool me).
Sheikah Posted June 15, 2020 Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) On 6/15/2020 at 8:09 PM, Jonnas said: They might be inanimate, but if they were moving around the world map, I'm betting your opinion of them would remain the same I'm guessing "Macguffins" is the term you were getting at? Expand Inanimate means they're not living, not that they don't move. Which is essentially me saying "they're not people". Crystals are inanimate; they don't have feelings, don't betray, don't express emotion on their faces (on account of, you know, not having faces), and generally are fucking stupid. That last one is especially true. Don't even get me started on the plot of Final Fantasy IX, where they brought up the crystal and the bollocks about the shared consciousness at the eleventh hour. Yeah, I don't care if it was on the box art, it's still true! Crystals taint everything they've ever touched! Edited June 15, 2020 by Sheikah
Glen-i Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 On 6/15/2020 at 8:14 PM, Sheikah said: Yeah, I don't care if it was on the box art, it's still true! Crystals taint everything they've ever touched! Expand What about the Orbs in the NES version of Final Fantasy? That do it for you? 1
Jonnas Posted June 24, 2020 Posted June 24, 2020 So, I've gotten the long ending, and I think I'm wrapping up the rest of the content. Reveal hidden contents Man, Dimension's Hasp gives out disgusting amounts of EXP and JP. I mastered some extra jobs, and got everybody to Lv.99 without trying much. As happy as I was to see Durandal at the end of that dungeon, I thought it was oddly underwhelming. Looked up if I was missing something, and yeah, an extra boss was there. Really good challenge, and really good boss! Needed Ringabel on support duty (as an extra Performer) for that fight. So yeah, time to talk about Ourobouros... Can't say I'm happy with the long ending. I know it's supposed to be the "true" ending, but it felt more like the "idiot" ending. No disobeying Airy, just be led by her, and then be led by the Sage, the Vampire, and the Angel's voice. Airy's real form was okay, but it's super counter-intuitive that her "perfect" form resembles a fairy so much: I thought she adopted that form to trick vestals? But her real form is a tiny butterfly after all? Ourobouros had the best voice in the entire game, actually felt like an otherworldly God. The fight with him felt more like an interactive cutscene, but it was a good one. Nice that one of his attacks, "Armageddon", was directly tied to the plot, this was a good integration of story and gameplay. The alternate worlds, though... That made no sense. The multiverse is supposed to be formed of the worlds that Airy awakened/pierced over millions of years, right? Then what are my Amigo-Bots doing there? Were they led by her too, but somehow still alive? Very incongruous with the actual world(s)building. It even runs counter to other themes in the story! Edea finally confesses she was wrong to see the world in black&white... just as the true black villain shows up, and reveals that his desire is to corrupt/feed on the "white" realm. Fookin' hell, they wanted to throw their pie and eat it too. Ringabel goes through something similar, deciding in a side-quest that he can't go back to being Alternis, but the ending seems to have him go back to being Alternis literally from where he left off (how does that work anyway? Airy wasn't time travelling, she was a multiversal entity. There shouldn't be alternate Airies). And then the spirit Tiz had inside him all along (something teased waay back in Ch.2)... was me? I thought it was going to be Til or something, but this... is pretty dumb. I guess this was foreshadowed by that very first AR movie, and... *sigh* Airy's identical sister... So, the Celestial Realm is just the real world, and that story of it being devoid of war, disease, and jealousy was just bullshit, then? Why does Tiz's conscience depend on me, anyway? Meh, he turns out to be alive for the sequel, so not too fussed. At least DeRosso's sacrifice was pretty poignant. His backstory was optional to find too, so that's a point in this finale's favour. Anyway, as of right now, all I'm missing is the Nemeses fights (yes, this game still has me by the Ba'als. Both of them) and the Ch.8 asterisk rematches. They all fled to Eternia by this point (the groups were stupidly easy with my setup, only the Black Blades gave me trouble), so Imma barge in for those last fights, and then bust some Ba'als. After those, I'll be done with it. I'll give a more complete set of general thoughts in the Gaming Diary thread once I'm done. For now, I'll just say that I'm not in a rush to get Bravely Second. It sounds like it improved in a lot of areas (is it true you can save setups there? That sounds like the biggest thing), Magnolia looks great, and a story centered around the abominations known as Ba'als sounds super intriguing, but I do feel a tad burnt out of Braving so much. And when I do recover, I'll probably want to jump into BDII instead.
Glen-i Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 7:20 PM, Jonnas said: So, I've gotten the long ending, and I think I'm wrapping up the rest of the content. Reveal hidden contents Man, Dimension's Hasp gives out disgusting amounts of EXP and JP. I mastered some extra jobs, and got everybody to Lv.99 without trying much. As happy as I was to see Durandal at the end of that dungeon, I thought it was oddly underwhelming. Looked up if I was missing something, and yeah, an extra boss was there. Really good challenge, and really good boss! Needed Ringabel on support duty (as an extra Performer) for that fight. So yeah, time to talk about Ourobouros... Can't say I'm happy with the long ending. I know it's supposed to be the "true" ending, but it felt more like the "idiot" ending. No disobeying Airy, just be led by her, and then be led by the Sage, the Vampire, and the Angel's voice. Airy's real form was okay, but it's super counter-intuitive that her "perfect" form resembles a fairy so much: I thought she adopted that form to trick vestals? But her real form is a tiny butterfly after all? Ourobouros had the best voice in the entire game, actually felt like an otherworldly God. The fight with him felt more like an interactive cutscene, but it was a good one. Nice that one of his attacks, "Armageddon", was directly tied to the plot, this was a good integration of story and gameplay. The alternate worlds, though... That made no sense. The multiverse is supposed to be formed of the worlds that Airy awakened/pierced over millions of years, right? Then what are my Amigo-Bots doing there? Were they led by her too, but somehow still alive? Very incongruous with the actual world(s)building. It even runs counter to other themes in the story! Edea finally confesses she was wrong to see the world in black&white... just as the true black villain shows up, and reveals that his desire is to corrupt/feed on the "white" realm. Fookin' hell, they wanted to throw their pie and eat it too. Ringabel goes through something similar, deciding in a side-quest that he can't go back to being Alternis, but the ending seems to have him go back to being Alternis literally from where he left off (how does that work anyway? Airy wasn't time travelling, she was a multiversal entity. There shouldn't be alternate Airies). And then the spirit Tiz had inside him all along (something teased waay back in Ch.2)... was me? I thought it was going to be Til or something, but this... is pretty dumb. I guess this was foreshadowed by that very first AR movie, and... *sigh* Airy's identical sister... So, the Celestial Realm is just the real world, and that story of it being devoid of war, disease, and jealousy was just bullshit, then? Why does Tiz's conscience depend on me, anyway? Meh, he turns out to be alive for the sequel, so not too fussed. At least DeRosso's sacrifice was pretty poignant. His backstory was optional to find too, so that's a point in this finale's favour. Anyway, as of right now, all I'm missing is the Nemeses fights (yes, this game still has me by the Ba'als. Both of them) and the Ch.8 asterisk rematches. They all fled to Eternia by this point (the groups were stupidly easy with my setup, only the Black Blades gave me trouble), so Imma barge in for those last fights, and then bust some Ba'als. After those, I'll be done with it. I'll give a more complete set of general thoughts in the Gaming Diary thread once I'm done. For now, I'll just say that I'm not in a rush to get Bravely Second. It sounds like it improved in a lot of areas (is it true you can save setups there? That sounds like the biggest thing), Magnolia looks great, and a story centered around the abominations known as Ba'als sounds super intriguing, but I do feel a tad burnt out of Braving so much. And when I do recover, I'll probably want to jump into BDII instead. Expand Reveal hidden contents I mean, you basically have infinite universes, you really expect Airy to link all of them? I guess the whole "alternative universe helps you out" thing has a bit more weight to it when it's the people on your friend list doing the helping out. Literal "Power of friendship", you know? I quite enjoyed how meta it got. I do agree with your assessment of it being the "idiot" ending. You remember how I said there was one thing I'd change in order to improve it? Simply put, I would have swapped the two endings. Have the player fight Ouroboros and get the true ending by destroying a crystal instead. Would have been much more satisfying. Just to make sure, you do realise that Tiz died along with everyone else in Norende right from the get-go? He's basically a vessel for the player to interact with that world. And once you're done, he's back to being dead. As for why he's alive in the Bravely Second Cliffhanger? Well, that would be telling. Speaking of Bravely Second, it does let you save setups. Gameplay wise, it's more polished. Jobs are more imaginative too, there's some real creativity there. Whether the plot and soundtrack is better is a point of contention. And some people get a bit annoyed that a lot of places from Default are reused. You probably will get burned out if you jump straight in, but if you ever decide to, play the demo first, it actually has some importance to the plot, believe it or not. 1
Jonnas Posted June 26, 2020 Posted June 26, 2020 On 6/25/2020 at 6:30 AM, Glen-i said: Reveal hidden contents I mean, you basically have infinite universes, you really expect Airy to link all of them? I guess the whole "alternative universe helps you out" thing has a bit more weight to it when it's the people on your friend list doing the helping out. Literal "Power of friendship", you know? I quite enjoyed how meta it got. I do agree with your assessment of it being the "idiot" ending. You remember how I said there was one thing I'd change in order to improve it? Simply put, I would have swapped the two endings. Have the player fight Ouroboros and get the true ending by destroying a crystal instead. Would have been much more satisfying. Just to make sure, you do realise that Tiz died along with everyone else in Norende right from the get-go? He's basically a vessel for the player to interact with that world. And once you're done, he's back to being dead. As for why he's alive in the Bravely Second Cliffhanger? Well, that would be telling. Speaking of Bravely Second, it does let you save setups. Gameplay wise, it's more polished. Jobs are more imaginative too, there's some real creativity there. Whether the plot and soundtrack is better is a point of contention. And some people get a bit annoyed that a lot of places from Default are reused. You probably will get burned out if you jump straight in, but if you ever decide to, play the demo first, it actually has some importance to the plot, believe it or not. Expand Reveal hidden contents Your idea of swapping the endings makes a lot of sense. I'd say that maybe... if breaking one of the crystals made Airy desperate enough to call Ourobouros, we could still get this lengthy ending by doing so (he could even eat worlds and everything). By going along with Airy's plan, the party kills her at Grandship, and she never gets to summon the Dark Aurora (leaving our heroes certain that all they can do is wait for Airy's dark master to one day waltz in and eat their world, leading to an oppressive ending). Yeah, this way it would definitely work. Bravely Second does sound appealing (amen for saving setups), but I think the next one I touch in this series shall definitely be BDII (for the reasons I mentioned). Maybe one day I can visit Second, though, it's the sort of game that will stay in my mental backlog. I'll play the demo, at least. Judging by the Second teaser, I'm assuming those scientists are infusing Tiz with a player again. And about that, I did think that's what the ending was getting at (despite him not having any injuries when he was found)... but it doesn't make sense. We don't play the whole thing from Tiz's perspective: there are several scenes the player sees, but Tiz doesn't; we straight up play as Edea alone for a couple of sections in the game; there are Tizzes from other worlds (for example, the one Ringabel came from, or the one we never see from Chapter 5), but there's no indication they're players (I mean, what are they doing losing to Airy, when they could be resetting?), nor can the same be said of Til from Chapter 6; when the player makes the decision to break or awaken a crystal... we control Agnés, not Tiz; in fact, Tiz never makes the decisions the player does, nor is he the one asking us the question. Even that opening FMV has us looking at the four characters (including Norende pre-destruction), not waking up as Tiz. Baten Kaitos has a similar plot device (where "The Player" takes the role of the fairy helper), and that game does a lot to embrace that 4th wall breaking aspect (for example, the fixed camera in towns is supposed to be "our" perspective, there are no cutscenes taking place outside of our party's vicinity, your lack of knowledge of the setting is explained by amnesia, etc.), but Bravely Default seems like it threw that into the game just because. It's like one writer came up with the idea, but didn't tell anybody else (aside from the folks in rebuilt Norende, maybe). "I mean, you basically have infinite universes, you really expect Airy to link all of them?" ...yes? Maybe not all of them (that alternate Airy that Ringabelternis faces in the end had to come from somewhere), but they explicitly say that every single world that Ouroubouros is consuming (or attempting to consume) in the final battle was linked by Airy at some point. Pal-Bot, Buddy-Bot... Airy was there, but left them alive even though they had Grandships. (And if those worlds are our Friends that are also playing Bravely Default... what are they doing with a crew of Dan Goodman, Alternis, etc. instead of Datz and Zatz? Kinda silly to see our real life friends represented by parties they obviously don't actually have. The idea of being helped by alternate versions of yourself can be good, but this case wasn't done very well, I think) In other news, I just beat a very tricky, fiery team. That was a bonkers boss fight, kudos to the developers for the challenge. 1
Jonnas Posted June 28, 2020 Posted June 28, 2020 Well, I tried the Bravely Second demo. Didn't play it to completion, as I only wanted to feel the changes, so I did it up until the cutscene where "Missus Aimee" appears (Love the name). My view of it was generally positive. Better voice acting, new jobs (some of which seem to be replacing FF staples), pleasant music, new places, and a redone background for the Wind Temple. Yeah, I'll keep this one in the back of my mind. As for Default 1: Reveal hidden contents The status effect team was super annoying (likely because I was refusing to use Spiritmaster), but I did them in. My team was very unoptimized for this (Low Leverage ended up benefiting the enemy more than me, for example), but I felt like brute-forcing it anyway. A good sign I'm feeling burnt out after the fire team (ba-dum tsh). Thankfully, the fight with Braev was easy enough. Then the Ba'als... I can't do it. First I did Turtle Dove, I was managing to wear her down thanks to clever use of Kairai (casting Fall in Love on the same person twice or more in a row)... and at half health, she just gives herself 3 BP! What the fuck!? My defenses were good enough that I survived three of those onslaughts, but just as we were 10,000 from her demise, she does the cleverest move (which I know is "luckiest", considering the AI): cast love triangle, then the following turn attack the object of love (Edea) three times, because the lovebirds will die alongside her. Edea had Utsusemi and Rampart at the same time, and that still wasn't enough. I wanted her to revive Tiz and use Kairai to deflect attention (Tiz has Rise From the Dead, he's supposed to be bait), but... ...Look, I've kept quiet about this throughout the game, but fuck the way speed is calculated in this game. Speed just gets randomly increased or decreased by as much as 10 each turn? Fuck that noise, my entire strategy depended on Edea moving before Turtle Dove, but no, let's just not have that happen on the most crucial turn. It was a slog to get that far, and then the game just nopes on me. And then I was doing fine against Goldie (thank the lord for Rampart), but then she used Festival Music. A confused Agnés used Run and it fucking worked. I am not retaking that match, even if I can do Confuse Immunity, that goes beyond cheap. I'm done. It's a shame I have to leave these two bosses behind, but I do think I've hit my patience limit. I need to give the series a rest now.
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