ipaul Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 "The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to taking life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States …" What do people think of this as a general statement? How do people feel about Pacifism in general? Just curious. George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism, 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I don't like George Orwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 My head is too fuzzy to take in that statement. I used to call myself a pacifist, but I'm not, I just couldn't think of the right word. I wore a white poppy on November 11 once and everyone said it was disrespectful. Which was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Is that quote saying that pacifists admire totalitarianism, or that pacifists hate westerners, as they [the westerners] admire totalitarianism? Presumably the latter, in which case I'd say the statement is going to be true. Partly because, arguably, it's the West that instigates everything it's involved in - the west goes and 'frees' a country somewhere. The West is teh active party in the 'war'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I wore a white poppy on November 11 once and everyone said it was disrespectful. Which was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The symbol of remembrance of the war dead in the UK is a red poppy. To highjack and make alterations to the symbol in order to promote your own campaign is very disrespectful. As for the Pacifism thing, I've lived in a house connected to a Quaker Meeting House for 20 years, and have been in there pretty much everyday, and see pacifist posters and material all the time. I find it an overly naive position, really. As for the quote, I'm still on the fence with Orwell. I'll get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReZourceman Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 My head is too fuzzy to take in that statement. My head is incapable of taking the statement in, regardless of amount of fuzz therein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Does this pertain to pacifism as a philosophy, in the same vein that "pragmatism" is a philosophy but is based on an ideosyncratic interpretation of the word "pragmatic"? Because I don't totally understand how totalitarianism is directly linked to pacifism, unless the so called pacifists are arguing that all human conflict arises from western democracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipaul Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 Does this pertain to pacifism as a philosophy, in the same vein that "pragmatism" is a philosophy but is based on an ideosyncratic interpretation of the word "pragmatic"? Because I don't totally understand how totalitarianism is directly linked to pacifism, unless the so called pacifists are arguing that all human conflict arises from western democracy? I don't think he's saying totalitarianism and pacifism are inextricably linked. Just that some pacifists, through their desire to avoid conflict, end up supporting totalitarian regimes - not actively, just passively. That many of them are quick to criticise the West whilst ignoring crimes against humanity elsewhere, particularly by totalitarian regimes. I think that's what he's getting at. I don't like George Orwell. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 The symbol of remembrance of the war dead in the UK is a red poppy. To highjack and make alterations to the symbol in order to promote your own campaign is very disrespectful. The White Poppy isn't anything new, it's been around since the 1930s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Bard said what I said! :P Pacifists isn't passivist, therefore I reject the idea that pacifists support totalitarianism because they're 'standing by' and 'allowing' such a regime to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 I don't like war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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