Election 2010 - Con/Lib Government

[Raining_again]

Non voters annoy me. I swear they should make politics compulsory at secondary education.

 

 

Couldn't agree more, an impartial explanation would be brilliant, then people would actually know who to vote for.. Especially in this country, politics is messyyy.

[danny]

Their tax plans are absolutely fucking insane. Why get rid of inheritance tax? Why make people earning 150k+ pay the same tax as those on 10k? It's so regressive.... Then after you've messed up the tax system, increase the budget of the military by 40%...sounds great.

 

How can you support that shit?

 

Why not? I bet statisticaly people on 10k are more likely to take more out of the system than people on 150k who have private health care and send there kids to private schools.

 

And if you read there plans they would have to raise the budget by 40% it woudnt be possable to do what they say without doing that.

 

Like i said in my post it wont ever happen and UKIP need sectioning for actually putting it forward. But if there was a way of that all being achieved i would support it. I work in defence why woudnt i want us to get an extra 40%?

 

Also, ending support for multiculturalism? I just don't get nationalism ...

 

Muliticulturalism dosent work it puts up borders and divides communitys (it shoudnt but it does) I like the idea of a new all inclusive British ID take the best parts from what we have and forge a new British ID.

 

Well the two points you raise i agree with. But if you're gonna tax normal folk 31%, then rich people should be maybe ...55%?

 

I think we all agree here :P

 

Yeah I think you're right on that' date=' personally I'd go for a higher tax free limit, say £15k, the next £85k taxed at 25-30% (Tax and NI combined) and then anything over £100k tax the hell out of, say 60% or so. You'd obviously need to know the real figures to tweak that correctly but I don't see why it couldn't work.[/quote']

 

I just dont get why you should punnish people who create the countrys wealth. Im not saying it should be equal but never more than 50%. If possable less. Many of these buisness people give more to the country than just the money from there taxs but the entire basis of our economy why punish them for it? And if you do whats to make them stay? Look a F1 drivers yes they mover abroad to live somewhere sunny. But they also do it because its not worth them living here. Footballers would do the same if they could but they have to train everyday.

Whats to stop buisnessmen moving to france if its worth say 50K a year upwards to them? Then you loose all there tax.

 

Non voters annoy me. I swear they should make politics compulsory at secondary education.

 

I think it should be the law that you must vote (like australia i think) even if you dont vote for anyone. But still have to go and tick a box saying you arnt voting for anyone.

[Will]

At the end of the day the government have to make their money somewhere. Ideally I'd totally agree with a flat rate of tax for all but I just don't think it's financially viable, if it is then it should be brought in asap.

 

As for the moving away from the country thing - it's just not going to happen. Sure some people where it's viable for them may do, but the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people will be staying put. As for the F1 driver thing, in reality they are traveling so much their nominated home doesn't make much difference, of course you would say you live somewhere with a low tax rate in that situation. In reality I doubt it makes much difference to them being here or anywhere else and would happen regardless of actual tax rates.

 

Basically it's a balancing act, everyone wants a 0% income tax but the money has to come from somewhere.

 

Everyone should vote, even if it's just by spoiling their ballot paper and dropping it in the box. It's one of the few times we have a chance to make a big change and a high turnout really does make a difference.

[danny]

 

Basically it's a balancing act' date=' everyone wants a 0% income tax but the money has to come from somewhere.

[/quote']

 

I understand that. And i understand a flat tax probably isnt viable. But i think if you had say a 60% tax rat you would suffer a loss of people. I mean the sort of people we are talking about deffinaly have the money to move away. And a very large part of our economy is based on (in comparisson) a quite small group of people.

I just hate the idea of tax him hes rich. I just think well good for him hes gone and done somehting to get that money why punish him/her for it.

[Raining_again]

no tax bracket should be over 50%. Getting less than half of what you earn is unfair.

 

People in 100k jobs are under stress and make big decisions, so they've every right to a fair sum, as much as a person on min wage.

 

I'd be mortified if I earned 100k and was expected to pay 60k of it in income tax!!!

[danny]

no tax bracket should be over 50%. Getting less than half of what you earn is unfair.

 

People in 100k jobs are under stress and make big decisions, so they've every right to a fair sum, as much as a person on min wage.

 

I'd be mortified if I earned 100k and was expected to pay 60k of it in income tax!!!

 

It would never be a true 60% as you would be taxed as normal up until a certain ammount. Then anything over that would be at 60% but its still shit.

[Will]

I do agree with you, but at the end of the day for most people it's not just a financial consideration. You still have to be able to generate more money and have the lifestyle you're used to. I think the argument of people will move away if you tax them too much is one of the worst thought out things ever. Did the country empty back in the days when the top rate was something like 80%?

[Raining_again]

It would never be a true 60% as you would be taxed as normal up until a certain ammount. Then anything over that would be at 60% but its still shit.

 

Yes that would be fairer, but still crappy nonetheless.

 

I've seen the sort of money my dad pays in tax (40% super tax!), and he has minimal "use", private pension, private healthcare, etc.

 

Whereas i pay comparably nothing, but probably take my equivalent net wage from the government in health costs..

 

It'll never be 100% fair, but gotta get a bit of damage control in there somewhere.

[ipaul]

Why not? I bet statisticaly people on 10k are more likely to take more out of the system than people on 150k who have private health care and send there kids to private schools.

 

 

Alright, so your argument is that rich people don't use the system and therefore shouldn't pay much for the system? Way to completely miss the fucking point of the public sector. Things like the NHS and the police are publicly run so that everyone can benefit from them, not just the wealthy few. Regardless of whether they use it or not, they should pay more, because it is unjust that they spend all their money on material goods and live in luxury whilst others are struggling for any kind of education or healthcare.

 

I know you're incredibly right wing danny, especially on this forum, but do you really think that because poor people use public services more, they should be taxed as much as rich people?

[dwarf]

I thought law was compulsory. As in you have to spend a few hours of lessons doing it, that's why I said 'barely'. Our school said it was a compulsory thing they had to do along with sex ed and some sort of citizenship. I'm not even eligible to vote until November so it may have changed for my year?

[danny]

I do agree with you' date=' but at the end of the day for most people it's not just a financial consideration. You still have to be able to generate more money and have the lifestyle you're used to. I think the argument of people will move away if you tax them too much is one of the worst thought out things ever. Did the country empty back in the days when the top rate was something like 80%?[/quote']

 

No it didnt but i still think that these days it is easier to move abroad than it was, the world is a smaller place than it was. Easier to travel back if you want to see family etc. And if we are going to abuse people whats to say other countrys arnt going to give them big tax breaks to move there and create them wealth, infact im pritty sure this has already come about with bankers and places sch as dubai.

I dont believe a flat tax rate is actually possible but i am strongly against taxing the rich to death. Im far from rich and none of my family are, a fairly typical family really. I dont stand to benefit from reduced taxs for the super rich. I just dont agree with it.

 

Alright, so your argument is that rich people don't use the system and therefore shouldn't pay much for the system? Way to completely miss the fucking point of the public sector. Things like the NHS and the police are publicly run so that everyone can benefit from them, not just the wealthy few. Regardless of whether they use it or not, they should pay more, because it is unjust that they spend all their money on material goods and live in luxury whilst others are struggling for any kind of education or healthcare.

 

I know you're incredibly right wing danny, especially on this forum, but do you really think that because poor people use public services more, they should be taxed as much as rich people?

 

If you read my posts i say i dont think it is possible. But i just hate the argument to tax the super rich. In an ideal world i would like a flat tax rate.

Im not saying they shoudnt pay as much for the system. But by the fact of being rich paying 33% of 100k is still more than 33% of 15k.

[Dyson]

And yet one thing a lot of people seem to skirt over is the issue of non-doms, which is something that'd help. I havn't seen any of the parties address this issue (though to be fair I haven't dug too deep) - can anyone enlighten me as to where the three main parties stand on this?

[Mr_Odwin]

It's more about what's left after the tax comes out. The rich are still rich.

[danny]

I think dyson that theres a law in the works to stop MPs being non doms. Apart from that i dont think theres much you can do to stop it.

[ipaul]

No it didnt but i still think that these days it is easier to move abroad than it was, the world is a smaller place than it was. Easier to travel back if you want to see family etc. And if we are going to abuse people whats to say other countrys arnt going to give them big tax breaks to move there and create them wealth, infact im pritty sure this has already come about with bankers and places sch as dubai.

I dont believe a flat tax rate is actually possible but i am strongly against taxing the rich to death. Im far from rich and none of my family are, a fairly typical family really. I dont stand to benefit from reduced taxs for the super rich. I just dont agree with it.

 

 

 

If you read my posts i say i dont think it is possible. But i just hate the argument to tax the super rich. In an ideal world i would like a flat tax rate.

Im not saying they shoudnt pay as much for the system. But by the fact of being rich paying 33% of 100k is still more than 33% of 15k.

 

I know you said you didn't think it was possible but that doesn't matter when talking about ideals. WELL DUH. I'm saying rich people should pay a higher proportion of tax and I think a flat tax rate is close to immoral. Thankfully, even the more right wing of the tory party would agree with me that generally, rich people should be taxed more than the poor. Going over 50% isn't great I agree but poor people shouldn't have to pay much tax like the rich should.

 

I'm sorry but I just find your entire political stance utterly perverse. Nearly everything that you post I find contemptible. Your positions on policing, on the army, that quotation you have and now your position on taxation I just often find ill thought out, hugely right wing and sometimes just insane.

[danny]

I know you said you didn't think it was possible but that doesn't matter when talking about ideals. WELL DUH. I'm saying rich people should pay a higher proportion of tax and I think a flat tax rate is close to immoral. Thankfully, even the more right wing of the tory party would agree with me that generally, rich people should be taxed more than the poor. Going over 50% isn't great I agree but poor people shouldn't have to pay much tax like the rich should.

 

I'm sorry but I just find your entire political stance utterly perverse. Nearly everything that you post I find contemptible. Your positions on policing, on the army, that quotation you have and now your position on taxation I just often find ill thought out, hugely right wing and sometimes just insane.

 

The quote i just find amusing it dosent mean i believe in what it says. Just as the charicter dosent in the program it is from. My bold forgot i had chaned it. I stand by the comment if you are not on our side then bassically you are sentanicing women in afghan to a life with virtually no rights. I would say thats pritty facist. Dont respond to this here tho as this thread is about the election PM if you want to discus it.

Im not going to respond about the policing ad army issues as i cant be arsed with it in this thread feel free to PM me or MSN me though.

And my opinion on taxation is why should people who have done well for themselves be punished? A flate rate of tax isnt even really a flat rate as its not like i am saying everyone should pay £5k a year. Rich people still pay more, i just dont see why the country should take the piss. The idea of a 60% tax rate its sickening to me. These people earn there money and get very little in return where as plenty of people put nothing in and get a great deal out.

Edited April 14, 2010 by danny

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Muliticulturalism dosent work it puts up borders and divides communitys (it shoudnt but it does) I like the idea of a new all inclusive British ID take the best parts from what we have and forge a new British ID.

While it's true that multiculturalism can divide people into groups - which I'll argue several other things can do as well, as it's natural for humans to divide themselves into communities - you really think the solution is forcing everybody to have the same culture? You want everybody to be one, homogenous bunch? Not only is it unrealistic, I also really doubt it would do any good at all.

[ipaul]

The quote i just find amusing it dosent mean i believe in what it says. Just as the charicter dosent in the program it is from.

Im not going to respond about the policing ad army issues as i cant be arsed with it in this thread feel free to PM me or MSN me though.

And my opinion on taxation is why should people who have done well for themselves be punished? A flate rate of tax isnt even really a flat rate as its not like i am saying everyone should pay £5k a year. Rich people still pay more, i just dont see why the country should take the piss. The idea of a 60% tax rate its sickening to me. These people earn there money and get very little in return where as plenty of people put nothing in and get a great deal out.

 

Taxation isn't a punishment. Ultimately, more equal societies just do better. I'm not saying I would go as far as 60%. I'm not sure that's fair. I'm also not sure it's fair that footballers get paid £100k+ a week. I'm not sure it's fair that bankers who have fucked up our economic system get paid millions of pounds in bonuses. All in the game though, right?

 

 

[danny]

While it's true that multiculturalism can divide people into groups - which I'll argue several other things can do as well, as it's natural for humans to divide themselves into communities - you really think the solution is forcing everybody to have the same culture? You want everybody to be one, homogenous bunch? Not only is it unrealistic, I also really doubt it would do any good at all.

 

Dannyboy i dont know how things are in denmark having never been. But in the UK things cant continue as they are its clearly not working. It probably is unrealistic but i think it is a goal that should be worked towards. Someone once said there will be rivers of blood in the streets. (im not saying i wish this to happen) but i fear that one day this could happen. If the country was less divided there would be less chance of this happening. A few years ago now there were a fair few mass riots in the north west of england whites and blacks (strangely) on one side and mostly people from the indian sub continent on the other. Again i repeat i never want this to happen but i think there is a very large chance in years to come this could becombe a common scene. I mean we live in a country where there are still two waring communitys although it is far far better than it once was.

[gaggle64]

So, is anyone aware of the LibDem manifesto at this point? No?

 

Here's the jist of it anyway:

 

Raise income tax allowance to £10,000

Future tax rises not ruled out

"Mansion tax" on £2m homes

Scrap ID cards

No like-for-like replacement for Trident

£400 cap on pay rises in the public sector

£2.5bn "pupil premium" to reduce primary class sizes

Raise pay of new members of armed forces

Scrap strategic health authorities

3,000 more police officers

Cut number of MPs by 150

 

Anyway, I'll leave you gentlemen to... whatever it is that you're doing. *flees*

[ipaul]

Dannyboy i dont know how things are in denmark having never been. But in the UK things cant continue as they are its clearly not working. It probably is unrealistic but i think it is a goal that should be worked towards. Someone once said there will be rivers of blood in the streets. (im not saying i wish this to happen) but i fear that one day this could happen. If the country was less divided there would be less chance of this happening. A few years ago now there were a fair few mass riots in the north west of england whites and blacks (strangely) on one side and mostly people from the indian sub continent on the other. Again i repeat i never want this to happen but i think there is a very large chance in years to come this could becombe a common scene. I mean we live in a country where there are still two waring communitys although it is far far better than it once was.

 

Surely though the whites and blacks were at ends with each other when black people first started to come here? I don't really see why it has to be so different with indians, or anyone else.

[danny]

Taxation isn't a punishment. Ultimately, more equal societies just do better. I'm not saying I would go as far as 60%. I'm not sure that's fair. I'm also not sure it's fair that footballers get paid £100k+ a week. I'm not sure it's fair that bankers who have fucked up our economic system get paid millions of pounds in bonuses. All in the game though, right?

 

 

 

I dont agree that bankers should get the bonuses for failure. But there are some banks that didnt get any direct aid. So i have no problem with tere bankers gettng any bonuses that can afford to be paid.

But then theres the argument with the govenment owned banks that if you dont pay the bonuses are those staff going to leave that bank, to go and work for one that can pay bonuses. Then banks need these people to make the money, much like the country needs people who have the drive, ambition and ability to create money and jobs. Which is why i dont agree with taxing them to death.

As for footballers if the club can afford to pay 100k a week then why shoudnt the footballer get it? At the end of the day thats what people pay to see. And clearly people are willing to pay the prices for tickets so i dont see an issue with it.

I cant watch the videos as im on a dongle and the signal is crap. A brief idea what there about?

[ipaul]

So, is anyone aware of the LibDem manifesto at this point? No?

 

Here's the jist of it anyway:

 

Raise income tax allowance to £10,000

Future tax rises not ruled out

"Mansion tax" on £2m homes

Scrap ID cards

No like-for-like replacement for Trident

£400 cap on pay rises in the public sector

£2.5bn "pupil premium" to reduce primary class sizes

Raise pay of new members of armed forces

Scrap strategic health authorities

3,000 more police officers

Cut number of MPs by 150

 

Anyway, I'll leave you gentlemen to... whatever it is that you're doing. *flees*

 

I like pretty much all of those policies. The thing that concerns me most in this election really is civil liberties and I think the Liberals came out pretty strongly for them. I really despise the I.D card scheme.

[McPhee]

This election is beginning to annoy me. It seems that the general consensus among a lot of people is that Labour cannot be allowed to get back in and therefore they MUST vote Conservative because voting for anyone else means Labour get back in. I've been told repeatedly over the past few days that I'm an idiot for wanting to vote LibDem by people who have been brainwashed in to actually believing that their only salvation relies in protest voting Cameron in to office.

 

Last I checked I was voting LibDem because their policies (and as of today, their Manifesto) are the best. If I was voting for Labour I'd be ticking a different box at the polls.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Dannyboy i dont know how things are in denmark having never been. But in the UK things cant continue as they are its clearly not working. It probably is unrealistic but i think it is a goal that should be worked towards. Someone once said there will be rivers of blood in the streets. (im not saying i wish this to happen) but i fear that one day this could happen. If the country was less divided there would be less chance of this happening. A few years ago now there were a fair few mass riots in the north west of england whites and blacks (strangely) on one side and mostly people from the indian sub continent on the other. Again i repeat i never want this to happen but i think there is a very large chance in years to come this could becombe a common scene. I mean we live in a country where there are still two waring communitys although it is far far better than it once was.

 

People fight. Humans always have done and humans always will. Plenty of whites and blacks (as you put it) still fight amongst themselves. Things have got better, as you say, but it still happens. People still fight over football teams (I'm looking at you, Millwall fans) and there's gang warfare. As Dannyboy said, humans will always put themselves into smaller communities. It's a bit unfair, in my opinion, to blame multiculturalism purely for these riots. Maybe we should look at why they're rioting in the first place.

 

So, we force everyone to follow one ideal. What then? Yes, we should be proud of our country and we should be proud to live here, but that doesn't automatically mean people are going to start loving each other and that these riots will suddenly stop.