killer kirby Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 I've been thinking about why I feel DQVIII is more tactical, and it's not that the game is particularly difficult, rather that the bosses are a lot harder compared to the minions in their dungeons. For example, you can level up until you can get through the dungeon easily, but you still have to think a lot on the boss battles. Also, the bosses can psyche, so you have to adapt your tactics on the fly - whether to attack, defend, heal, buff, insulate, diffuse their psyching etc. It just seems like it's more important to the battle. The special moves also let you control your tactics a lot more, eg. lower the enemy's defence, one with a 50% chance of critical hit, 50% risk of missing. But thats the same with all bosses in all DQ games, from what I have read from your previous posts revolving around DQ series it seems you are not really far into DQIV or V. The bosses are always easy to begin with in any DQ game (Well...besides the one in the first DQ game) Plus you can still take your time on the decisions on what you make in DQ it's not fast pace like Chrono Cross and Baten Kaitos Origins As you continue on in the games in the DQ series, you continue to grow as well as the monsters (And of course bosses) since you need to make sure you use all types of things you have learnt or gotten from treasure chests and in stores (Thats why I love playing Dragon Quest as a whole, most RPG, I could get something and still never use it)
Sheikah Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Really? To be honest I think DQVIII is still a bit on the easy side, like yeah you can't just go attack attack attack all the time, but if you get jessica with the whip skill twin dragon lash, Angelo's falcon blade, Hero's special spear attack (Forgot what you call it but you attack 3 times rather then one) and have Yangus have his axe lvl up, it's really quite easy to get through the game. Umm, it only really becomes easy towards the 'endgame' stuff. Like when you have falcon blade/uber falcon blade and use falcon slash, or Yangus's axe technique (executioner) for taking down King Metal Slimes.... Jessica's twin dragon lash is cool but only all that useful when you get a better whip (Gringham from the casino is good, but costs a lot). Timbrel of Tension (even getting two) makes the game really easy indeed. And if you level the hero to the get dragon soul, you're laughing. DQVIII is much harder than the other DQ games I've played. Hard in the sense that you can't just storm through it...you often need to level up a fair bit before bosses (this applies to a few bosses, actually). Just going straight to the first boss will get you killed. But if you mean hard in a skillful sense...tactical RPGs are very rarely ever this as they're all about leveling up, which is never hard, just a time burner. And this is more of a time burner than most of the other DQ games. Edited August 6, 2009 by Sheikah
killer kirby Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Umm, it only really becomes easy towards the 'endgame' stuff. Like when you have falcon blade/uber falcon blade and use falcon slash, or Yangus's axe technique (executioner) for taking down King Metal Slimes.... Jessica's twin dragon lash is cool but only all that useful when you get a better whip (Gringham from the casino is good, but costs a lot). Timbrel of Tension (even getting two) makes the game really easy indeed. And if you level the hero to the get dragon soul, you're laughing. It's odd, because through my play, I onlyever had REAL trouble with two bosses in all, I never ran away from a fight, always used the alchemy pot to make sure I had all healing items etc etc... It's perhaps harder for the people who were really new to the game playing this, because most RPG's you just use what you have with fighting skills and then you use your items after a fight, but items are a BIG help in DQ. DQVIII is much harder than the other DQ games I've played. Wow, you really need to play Dragon Quest I+II on the SNES (Or NES whatever you prefer) as well as Dragon Quest VII. Hard in the sense that you can't just storm through it...you often need to level up a fair bit before bosses (this applies to a few bosses, actually). That's why there are very easily missable side quests you can do that make most fights easy once you have done them. DQ is always said to be about grinding, well, I have not grind in a DQ game since DQ I+II and DQVII and even then it was very little amount. Like right at the start of the game. Go behind the waterfall and get the mans tools, by then you should have enough money to go buy a boomerang which really helps you out at the start ^^ just a time burner. And this is more of a time burner than most of the other DQ games. It doesn't have to be a time burner ^^ Just look for little things you could do before going into a cave instead of going in, die, go back in, die, go back in and beat him.
Grazza Posted August 7, 2009 Author Posted August 7, 2009 But thats the same with all bosses in all DQ games, from what I have read from your previous posts revolving around DQ series it seems you are not really far into DQIV or V. The bosses are always easy to begin with in any DQ game (Well...besides the one in the first DQ game) I've completed DQ IV. I've become king At the end of the day, I don't have a problem with the difficulty of any Dragon Quest games I've played. I just think DQ VIII is a lot better than the others, as it's on a machine three generations ahead of some of them and the team have had all that time and experience to improve the gameplay. To me, a top class game on a more powerful system will always be better than a top class game on a less powerful system. Dragon Quest VIII is the "Ocarina of Time" of its series - it doesn't make the 2D ones obsolete, but it takes it into a whole new dimension. Processing power matters. It is not just about graphics. Machines have a GPU these days, but they also have a CPU, RAM and storage space. The game needs processing power to calculate the entire gameworld - huge canyons, things hidden behind trees - to me this is "gameplay" as much as "graphics". Look at how you can climb a castle or hill and get a realistic view of where you might want to go next, or go into 1st-person mode and look up at a ceiling. You say how good Dragon Quest VII is (which I don't doubt at all), but surely this is partly because of what the PlayStation could do over the SNES? I think you said it was a very big game. Well, this was surely helped by the space available on the CD. Yes, it may have been an overhead game with sprites, but that was completely appropriate for the time and the machine. The reason I say this is because that's what the team felt they could do at the time. It was not actually a backwards step. Putting a main series game on the DS is actually a backwards step for the overall game engine, and I think that's why people have questioned it. To my mind, they are not upset or angry about it, nor are they taking it out of proportion. Personally, I'll say my piece and then very much look forward to the game. The Wii game will probably be based on the DQVIII engine, so has a chance of being as good (or better), as long as they don't use accelerometers for the main gameplay! After that, well, I can't wait to see what they could do with the HD machines. Yes, I trust their judgement and ability, but I dare to dream they can take the series even higher! Anyway, sorry for all that. I mean it in a friendly way, but I just wanted to get off my chest all my feelings about Dragon Quest and horsepower etc.
killer kirby Posted August 8, 2009 Posted August 8, 2009 You say how good Dragon Quest VII is (which I don't doubt at all), but surely this is partly because of what the PlayStation could do over the SNES? I think you said it was a very big game. Well, this was surely helped by the space available on the CD. Yes, it may have been an overhead game with sprites, but that was completely appropriate for the time and the machine. The reason I say this is because that's what the team felt they could do at the time. It was not actually a backwards step. . pic of Dragon Quest VII Pics of other PS1 games Just kind of stating that if we were back in the PS1 era, and all of us getting excited about Dragon Quest VII coming out on it (Waiting 6 years for it) imaging that the game will look like the games I just showed you, I think a lot of people would hit the roof knowing that it looks exactly like a SNES game. Thats why I am loving the fact that it's on the DS, gives the finger to all those people that think the handheld is only for spinoffs which is well, sad. Yes it doesn't look as good as DQVIII, but hey, won't stop me from enjoying a handheld game that is 2gb big in size and has over 100 hours of gameplay put into it ^^ Plus the game looks smooth as when going on a field and having enemies as well as your whole party walking.
Ike Posted August 8, 2009 Posted August 8, 2009 pic of Dragon Quest VII<snip> Pics of other PS1 games <snip> I'd take the DQVII graphics over the "other" PS1 games any day. I hope they remake DQVII for the DS or maybe Wii so I can actually play it. I Still need to play DQIII, DQVI (just need to wait for the DS release) and DQVII. I might buy DQIII (GBC version) on Amazon, but I'm don't really want to end up with a fake copy, especially since the cheapest is £30.
Grazza Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 I'd take the DQVII graphics over the "other" PS1 games any day. I hope they remake DQVII for the DS or maybe Wii so I can actually play it. Same here. Dragon Quest VIII was the first one ever released in Europe. It's funny to think that and the remakes of IV and V are still the only ones available here. What I'd love is for a new 3D game engine built for the PS3 and for the entire series to be remade on it! It'd be a big task, but there'd be one big database of textures, models and such, like these DS remakes. Imagine being able to view the interiors up close of all those castles and mansions from the 2D games!
killer kirby Posted August 8, 2009 Posted August 8, 2009 What I'd love is for a new 3D game engine built for the PS3 and for the entire series to be remade on it! It'd be a big task, but there'd be one big database of textures, models and such, like these DS remakes. Imagine being able to view the interiors up close of all those castles and mansions from the 2D games! Ugh...Grazza, your a cool guy, but I get saddened by these comments a lot nowadays. Yes, I am waiting for HD game of Dragon Quest, the fact is that it will come ONE DAY!!! Just not now, instead Yuji Horii is using his head and putting Dragon Quest on the systems that are selling the best, not just the ones that are pretty but sell like shit (I bet any money Square must be feeling the pressure from the 100000000000000000000 games Nomura is making for the PS3 because the only two things which are perfect in his eyes are Gackt and Sony) Remaking is fucking pointless, I now have decided that after playing Final Fantasy VII and VIII (Yeah played and finished it finally I might go back to the other thread about FFVIII and take back some of my comments *Gasp* ) Why remake a game, especially a game going on HD? You know how much that would cost to make? A shit load. I would rather have a 100 developing team work on a BRAND NEW GAME see how I said brand new and not remake. Why remake something that we already have? I would rather have something new. The Dragon Quest remakes are ok for one reason...not much of a big team at all making it...perhaps around 20-30 people or even less are making it, it's not the main developing team of the main series.
Grazza Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 Ah, killer kirby, I didn't mean to sadden you! I only meant as a side project, and I was trying to save money with the shared resources idea.
Sheikah Posted August 8, 2009 Posted August 8, 2009 Ugh...Grazza, your a cool guy, but I get saddened by these comments a lot nowadays. Yes, I am waiting for HD game of Dragon Quest, the fact is that it will come ONE DAY!!! Just not now, instead Yuji Horii is using his head and putting Dragon Quest on the systems that are selling the best, not just the ones that are pretty but sell like shit This is something that benefits the company and not the consumer (said that before). It's all to easy to put it on the DS because it sells more...to be honest Square Enix are god damn rich and DQ is famous enough (esp. in Japan) to make a huge profit whatever system it's on. But for the consumer...it's much better to have what you could have plus more!
Android18a Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I liked DQ8, and managed to get through it. It was a struggle though, and many times through it I wished it was a bit easier, particularly the boss encounters were very stressful. I prefer my RPGs a little lighter though. FFX is ideal for me (until those bloody dark aeons, at least).
Patch Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Well, I've finally started playing it. I'm in love with the graphical style - it's like playing a cartoon. There's nothing revolutionary in there so far, but it's easy to get into, light-hearted and most of all, fun. I'm really enjoying it. I laughed out loud when seeing the 'monster' in the first town Farebury. Most RPGs let you ransack people's houses for items, but for some reason in this game, I feel really guilty for doing so! My first venture out of town ended very swiftly. After only two battles, I was scurrying back to town, needing a rest and a save, feeling a little like a whipped dog. Thankfully you gain quite a few levels early on and I felt some satisfaction in leaving town by one gate and crossing the outside world to enter it by the other! After a few more battles, getting some better armour and the Hero learning Heal, I was striding around. The 'secret project' that King Trode works on at night is very intriguing. Looking forward to playing more in the next few days. So now I'm two hours in and I've only just made it to the waterfall cave, though I like to take my time, exploring everything thoroughly.
Grazza Posted September 21, 2009 Author Posted September 21, 2009 Ah, Patch, glad to hear of your progress. I'm also glad you don't dislike it! The Waterfall Cave is quite difficult (I recommend being at approx Level 7-10 ), so you're certainly not taking it too slowly or anything.
Patch Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Haha, though I was fairly certain I would enjoy it, I wouldn't have minded otherwise as I bought the cheap Platinum version. Thanks for the tip. Sounds like this game is going to last quite some time.
killer kirby Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 So now I'm two hours in and I've only just made it to the waterfall cave, though I like to take my time, exploring everything thoroughly. The Waterfall Cave is quite difficult (I recommend being at approx Level 7-10 ) It's not difficult, one of the aspects of Dragon Quest is that you never go to point A to point B, because in the end you will surley die going through it. There are always side quests around that point of time where you can get other equipment, items and exp. Like the waterfall for instance, don't go right in, buy a couple of medicinal herbs and walk around the waterfall to find a hill that leads to a house where a man wants his tool kit, go and get that, then fight 2 strong monsters that are around (You can find them easily by well...being able to see them and going up too them) sell the copper coins and then buy a boomerang. This shouldn't take long and it will give you about 1 hours max, and you only need to be at lvl 5 really to survive the waterfall
Patch Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I've now completed the Waterfall Cave, defeating the hilarious Hammer Head dude along the way. I was at level 8 and didn't have any trouble with the boss. Thankfully Yangus woke up from being cursed fairly quickly. I did the side-quest mentioned by Kirby; I thought I would have trouble with this due to red / green colour blindness, but thankfully the distinction was obvious! I'm 5 hours in, which might seem like a lot, but I spent quite a while trying to get enough gold to buy the best equipment from town including the boomerang, before attempting the Waterfall Cave. I'm glad I did - the 'rang made short work of most battles. I can't kill the raptor creature outside town yet though. He's a bit hard. I did run past him for the nice item though! Next stop: Checkpoint.
Grazza Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 I'm 5 hours in, which might seem like a lot, but I spent quite a while trying to get enough gold to buy the best equipment from town including the boomerang, before attempting the Waterfall Cave. I'm glad I did - the 'rang made short work of most battles. Yeah, you'll have the most fun experimenting with all the weapons. The boomerang is definitely the best one for groups of enemies in dungeons. What I will say is that the boomerang's special skills are not very useful. It might be worth putting some points into it just for strength, but not really for the skills. Spears: 77 Swords: 66 Boomerang: 66 Fisticuffs: 0 Courage: 90 You may not get that many skill points, but that's just an idea of what it's nice to have eventually. Spears are good for levelling-up and essential for two of the post-game bosses (unless you're level 65). If you are going to take your character all the way to Level 65, he learns a good spell, and you'll be pleased if you put 90 into Courage. I can't kill the raptor creature outside town yet though. He's a bit hard. I did run past him for the nice item though! Oh yes, don't worry about that. He's a league above the other monsters at this stage. Are you enjoying the music, Patch?
Patch Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 You may not get that many skill points, but that's just an idea of what it's nice to have eventually. Spears are good for levelling-up and essential for two of the post-game bosses (unless you're level 65). Thanks as always for the tips. I'll be concentrating on finishing the game first and foremost. Based purely on the length of the game as it is, it will take considerable drive and determination for me to continue playing after that! Much appreciated though, mate. Are you enjoying the music, Patch? Yes indeed - I haven't mentioned that yet. The music is a mixed bag for me. At first I loved the orchestrated feel, then I found it to be irritatingly repetitive (probably down to me levelling up in the same areas at the beginning) and now I'm very much enjoying it again. I haven't been able to get it out of my head all day today! I need to open up some more areas I guess.
killer kirby Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 The music is a mixed bag for me. At first I loved the orchestrated feel, then I found it to be irritatingly repetitive (probably down to me levelling up in the same areas at the beginning) and now I'm very much enjoying it again. I haven't been able to get it out of my head all day today! I need to open up some more areas I guess. The music, even though awesome, it didn't feel as epic as what Dragon Quest VII was and the games before it, perhaps out of the music in Dragon Quest VIII, 5 songs really were outstanding (Although 1 of them was a remake to the flying song of Dragon Quest III) I still like most of Koichi Sugiyama's music, but yeah, comparing it to other Dragon Quest games makes it sound bad, comparing it too any other gaming series, then well all DQ games looks like a God send when I compare them I don't even like that list of mine of my favorite Dragon Quest games, as it's the only series that I can say with confidence...How can you compare perfection ^^
Patch Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 I made a fair bit of progress over the weekend. I hopped across the bridge to the Alexandria region and popped in to the next town. I had a feeling the missing Jessica would be the buxom girl on the front of the game case. At last, getting a first look at the Dhoulmagus felt gratifying, but at the same time disturbing. The manner in which he killed Alistair was cold and brutal - not what I was expecting at all! I don't blame Jessica for turning her back on her family for vengeance. In quick order, I marched to Port Prospect and didn't have any trouble with the Khalamari. I think levelling up at the beggining for that boomerang has allowed me to march quite quickly through rest of the game. So far anyway. So now I've finally seen Trode's secret project - the Alchemy Pot. The potential for this sounds amazing. By the way, anyone know what I should combine with the nail, given to me by one of the less salubrious ferry passengers? Next stop is Simpletown (Simpleton?) p.s. Kirby, I now recognise your avatar. I think the Slime variations are hilarious. Bubble Slime, She-slimes, etc...
Grazza Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 I hopped across the bridge to the Alexandria region and popped in to the next town. I had a feeling the missing Jessica would be the buxom girl on the front of the game case. Make sure you create her best outfits, like the Divine Bustier! At last, getting a first look at the Dhoulmagus felt gratifying, but at the same time disturbing. The manner in which he killed Alistair was cold and brutal - not what I was expecting at all! Oh yes, this is not a kids' game at all. The whole series tackles mature themes in an unpretentious way. I reckon killer kirby will agree with me on that! In quick order, I marched to Port Prospect and didn't have any trouble with the Khalamari. I think levelling up at the beggining for that boomerang has allowed me to march quite quickly through rest of the game. So far anyway. This was generally the point at which I started loving the game even more. I mean, sailing out to sea to fight a giant squid who talks to his tentacles... It just spoke to me somehow! So now I've finally seen Trode's secret project - the Alchemy Pot. The potential for this sounds amazing. By the way, anyone know what I should combine with the nail, given to me by one of the less salubrious ferry passengers? The Bronze Knife. Then, when you get another Iron Nail, combine it with the Boomerang. I really recommend this. It's not cheating, in my opinion: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=583527&topic=40808249 Next stop is Simpletown (Simpleton?) There are loads more puns to look forward to!
Patch Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 Make sure you create her best outfits, like the Divine Bustier! And the Bunny Ears presumably. Oh yes, this is not a kids' game at all. The whole series tackles mature themes in an unpretentious way. I reckon killer kirby will agree with me on that! Yep, I have let the cartoon trappings and light-hearted banter fool me into thinking this was a kid's game. I look forward to more shocks. This was generally the point at which I started loving the game even more. I mean, sailing out to sea to fight a giant squid who talks to his tentacles... It just spoke to me somehow! LOL! I felt similarly drawn into the game at this point, mainly due to having a third character involved, and there being less of a linear exploration path. Also, learning Zoom, like you mentioned in an earlier post. The Bronze Knife. Then, when you get another Iron Nail, combine it with the Boomerang. I really recommend this. It's not cheating, in my opinion: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=583527&topic=40808249 Thanks! That's a very thorough guide and will be extremely useful. I can see there being a lot of cool items to miss out on without it. And it will probably significantly help those who are struggling with hard bits in the game? There are loads more puns to look forward to! Actually that's one thing that has impressed me about the game - the translation is top-notch, with some very subtle humour.
killer kirby Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 Oh yes, this is not a kids' game at all. The whole series tackles mature themes in an unpretentious way. I reckon killer kirby will agree with me on that! Yes and no, it's still a game that kids can still enjoy and play with the simple battle features and easy to use navigation with the menu's Too me this is like the old Disney films, which could be watched by both adults and children and both getting the same amount of joy from it, but in different perspectives. Hence why I prefer DQ over FF by a mile And the Bunny Ears presumably. Well, Grazza went way overhead in telling you about that suit of armour (What else can you call it?) He is basically telling you the greatest in visual and strategic outcome. Yep, I have let the cartoon trappings and light-hearted banter fool me into thinking this was a kid's game. I look forward to more shocks. All Dragon Quest games are like that and it's what makes it so awesome and charming. Although, too me this game is a bit weaker compared to the other Dragon Quests in terms of story wise. But I rate all the Dragon Quest stories so far high anyway Basically Dragon Quest VIII story is still far greater then most RPG's...just it's not as good as the other DQ stories I believe. LOL! I felt similarly drawn into the game at this point, mainly due to having a third character involved, and there being less of a linear exploration path. Also, learning Zoom, like you mentioned in an earlier post. Zoom is one of the greatest things to ever be created ever in an RPG, It's nice to know that if your injured and can't take the chance of walking right back to the last spot, that you can just go straight there without fighting, meaning you won't have to lose half the money you have from fighting. Thanks! That's a very thorough guide and will be extremely useful. I can see there being a lot of cool items to miss out on without it. And it will probably significantly help those who are struggling with hard bits in the game? I think Grazza should stop helping you now, as well as myself, just play and really enjoy the game, DQ is always about exploration and learning new little things that make it a DQ game and a DQ world. It's more fun just going through trail and error with the pot. Actually that's one thing that has impressed me about the game - the translation is top-notch, with some very subtle humour. Don't say that too weeaboos (God I fucking hate them) Some people don't like the translation because it's 'bringing in new humor that the japanese version didn't have' well idiots like them have to realize that we are english, and we should enjoy a game which has great english humor. So yeah I give the finger to the haters and I welcome even more great and awesome translation in the DQ games to come that I hope they continue to do.
Pit-Jr Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 I can't believe this thread exists without screenshots. Oh wait heres some!
killer kirby Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 This pic alone makes me know why the jap version is better then the US version
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