Has Wii lost the hardcore gamer?

[Zechs Merquise]

At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I'm in Hellfires camp here. Its clear that the writer has set out with a message he wants to put across and sought to find information to support this rather than weighing up the research to see if his oppinion is correct. The whole thing seems a little incoherant to me.

 

Its an old worn out point but to me "hardcore" means gaming hobbyist, someone who has a real interest in games and games design in gerneral (or that could be me being elitist). From my point of view the PS2's lead last gen was entirely due to the casual crowd (that is not hobbiyst) I would wager that a great deal of GTA buyers wern't interested in the design or narrative so much as being able to break taboo's they can't in real life. Yet these are considered "hardcore" gamers?

 

Aside from the GTA audience of 12-30 year old males, last gen when you said games to the general populus they thought of playstation, it was the casuals choice. The Wii seems to have attracted these casual gamers and not the GTA crowd, leaving them more visible.

 

I feel the authors pain in that I can see so much potential for Nintendo and it dissapoints me that its not being fulfilled. But I am aware that they are one publisher, yet they seem to be criticised more harshly because they also produce consoles in house. At the end of the day if you'd really didn't like what Nintendo are doing... why waste time moaning? Get going to greener pastures.

 

Great post!

[Marcamillian]

Just to clarify my position, though I am a sole Nintendo system owner this generation (and an admirer of Nintendo in general), I am still first and formost a gamer and to that ends I try to be well informed of whats going on in the entire market even if I lack the ability to splash the cash on every system known to man.

 

There are some wonderful things going on other platforms. I accepted on ownership of the Wii that I would be missing out on advances in physics and AI and I believe that is where the Wii will begin to show its age rather than in terms of graphics. In addition to this nintendo's arcade roots and design philosophy still seem to lack the compelling storytelling of some other developers.

 

Why then am I a happy Wii/DS owner?!

 

To my eyes the Wii and DS (with the exception of the shovelware that comes with a large install base) have games that stray further from the established paths of design in gaming. The driving force that allows this...the so called "casual" audience!

 

Unlike the "hardcore" they don't care whether a first person shooter doesn't play like halo or the differing control schemes between FIFA and ProEvo. Xenophobic gamers make it hard for creativity to exist outside of small itterations to existing ideas because they need to be reassured that the game is something familiar before they'll buy. This is part of the reason for the limited shelf life of games on other consoles... old games are seen as redundant as soon as a new irreration arrives.

 

Wii and DS software has shown unprecidented shelf life in the industry. The titles that achieve this typically don't fall into an existing genre (or come with pack in hardware... im looking at you WiiPlay :p) so havn't been made obsolete and sell consistently. Another good incentive for creative design decisions!

 

So where does this leave us? Galaxy and Twilight Princess... while nice, didn't excite me... itterations on a theme. The popularity of the Wii and DS does mean alot of shovelware but I'm informed enough to pick through it. The silver lining is that there is now a wide range of price points for games encompassing some hidden gems making bold design choices.

 

This makes me a happy man.

 

[edit] p.s I know my excitement for AC:CF flys in the face of this but it's an irrational love

[darksnowman]

A great read and well put together article by Matt.

 

I find it hard to really fault any of what he says because it seems to describe the situation on Wii to perfection. 2009 has the potential for greatness, we all know it, but it is a pity that theres no big blockbuster game this winter on the system.

 

Its true too that the Wii has had its releases spread throughout the year- Easter may have been the most packed period for me with things like Fire Emblem, Mario Kart, Pro Evo and Wii Fit all coming out fairly close to each other, iirc. "Non-casual" gamers tend to be snobby towards the Wii and automatically dismiss the titles on it, but like the article said, you just have to broaden your horizons and try out new stuff and you'll find that theres fun to be had.

[Ren of Heavens]

The common perception is that Nintendo has dropped the ball with the Wii in 2008, especially during the holiday season. Some have even gone on to claim this to be the worst first-party year that Nintendo has ever had - a bold claim given the lean Nintendo 64 and GameCube years. Where does the truth lie? As usual, things are neither as bad as they seem, nor as good as would be hoped, but somewhere in the middle.

 

First, let's take a look at Nintendo-published GameCube titles by year of their US release. Bolded titles were published in the fouth quarter of that year.

 

2001 (4)

 

* Luigi's Mansion

* Wave Race: Blue Storm

* Pikmin

* Super Smash Bros. Melee

 

2002 (8)

 

* Animal Crossing

* Super Mario Sunshine

* Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem

* Mario Party 4

* Metroid Prime

* Star Fox Adventures

* NBA Courtside 2002

* Disney's Magical Mirror Starring Mickey Mouse

 

2003 (12)

 

* The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest

* The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

* Mario Kart: Double-Dash

* The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition

* 1080 Avalanche

* Pac-Man Vs.

* F-Zero GX

* Kirby Air Ride

* Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour

* Mario Party 5

* Pokemon Channel

* Wario World

 

2004 (12)

 

* Pokemon Box: Ruby & Sapphire

* The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures

* Pikmin 2

* Custom Robo

* Donkey Konga

* Mario Party 6

* Mario Power Tennis

* Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

* Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

* Pokemon Colosseum

* WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$

* Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles

 

2005 (11)

 

* Battalion Wars

* Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix

* Donkey Konga 2

* Donkey Kong Jungle Beat

* Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance

* Geist

* Mario Party 7

* Mario Superstar Baseball

* Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness

* Star Fox: Assault

* Super Mario Strikers

 

2006 (4)

 

* Baten Kaitos Origins

* Chibi-Robo!

* Odama

* The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

 

 

 

The GameCube launch started off relatively strong with three top-tier titles released before Christmas. 2002 was a bit of a slow follow-up, with only 8 games released all year, and only Mario Party 4 accompanying the critically-acclaimed Metroid Prime. 2003 saw an increase in first-party games, though the number of quality titles barely increased and in November and December Pacman Vs. was the only notable game released. 2004 and 2005 were both similar in quality and quantity to 2003, though with more titles slotted into the critical November-December time period.

 

 

 

Now let's take a look at Nintendo-published Wii games by year in the US:

 

2006 (3)

 

* Wii Sports

* Excite Truck

* The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

 

2007 (13)

 

* Wii Play

* WarioWare: Smooth Moves

* Super Paper Mario

* Mario Party 8

* Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree

* Pokemon Battle Revolution

* Mario Strikers Charged

* Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

* Donkey Kong Barrel Blast

* Battalion Wars II

* Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

* Super Mario Galaxy

* Link's Crossbow Training

 

2008 (8)

 

* Endless Ocean

* Super Smash Bros. Brawl

* Mario Kart Wii

* Wii Fit

* Mario Super Sluggers

* Wario Land: Shake It!

* Wii Music

* Animal Crossing: City Folk

 

 

 

Initially, this comparison looks weaker for the Wii, as 2001 had 3 strong titles at launch for GameCube, compared to 2 for Wii. 2007, however, had a huge number of first-party titles for Wii compared to 2002 for GameCube, including three high-quality Wii holiday titles compared to GameCube's single one. This has resulted in a deficiency in 2008 for Wii compared to 2003 for GameCube, especially in the holiday season, though GameCube's biggest holiday titles released in October.

 

It shouldn't be a surprise that a large number of Nintendo titles in 2007 has lead to a dearth of them in 2008 - after all games usually take at least two years to make, especially the quality titles. It is therefore of interest to note that through the first 3 years, both GameCube and Wii had exactly 24 Nintendo-published games on the system.

 

Of course, the comparison gets a little silly when we look at the plethora of downloadable Nintendo titles available on the Wii:

 

First, Virtual Console games published by Nintendo by year in the US:

 

2006 (13: 10 NES, 2 SNES, 1 N64)

 

* Donkey Kong (NES)

* The Legend of Zelda (NES)

* Mario Bros. (NES)

* Pinball (NES)

* Soccer (NES)

* Wario's Woods (NES)

* Donkey Kong Jr. (NES)

* Ice Hockey (NES)

* Tennis (NES)

* Super Mario Bros. (NES)

* F-Zero (SNES)

* SimCity (SNES)

* Super Mario 64 (N64)

2007 (38: 20 NES, 9 SNES, 9 N64)

 

* Baseball (NES)

* Urban Champion (NES)

* Ice Climber (NES)

* Kid Icarus (NES)

* Kirby's Adventure (NES)

* Excitebike (NES)

* Punch-Out!! (NES)

* Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (NES)

* NES Open Tournament Golf (NES)

* Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES)

* Mach Rider (NES)

* Yoshi (NES)

* Balloon Fight (NES)

* Metroid (NES)

* Donkey Kong Jr. Math (NES)

* NES Play Action Football (NES)

* Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (NES)

* Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)

* Volleyball (NES)

* Wrecking Crew (NES)

* The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES)

* Super Mario World (SNES)

* Donkey Kong Country (SNES)

* Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest (SNES)

* Kirby's Dream Course (SNES)

* Super Metroid (SNES)

* Kirby's Avalanche (SNES)

* Vegas Stakes (SNES)

* Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble (SNES)

* Mario Kart 64 (N64)

* The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)

* Star Fox 64 (N64)

* F-Zero X (N64)

* Paper Mario (N64)

* Wave Race 64 (N64)

* Yoshi's Story (N64)

* Sin & Punishment (N64)

* Pokemon Snap (N64)

 

2008 (10: 4 NES, 1 SNES, 5 N64)

 

* StarTropics (NES)

* Yoshi's Cookie (NES)

* Donkey Kong 3 (NES)

* Clu Clu Land (NES)

* Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (SNES)

* 1080 Snowboarding (N64)

* Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (N64)

* Cruis'n USA (N64)

* Pokemon Puzzle League (N64)

* Mario Golf (N64)

 

61 total Virtual Console games published by Nintendo, though granted these ones don't really eat up much in terms of development resources. Holiday 2008 is not yet over, of course, so there may be more in there, but for the most part Nintendo put out a lot of Virtual Console games in 2006-2007 and then let the third-party games (and WiiWare) take over in 2008.

 

Speaking of WiiWare, let's look quickly at the Nintendo-published WiiWare games by year (US):

 

2008 (6)

 

* Art Style: Cubello

* Art Style: Orbient

* Art Style: Rotohex

* Dr. Mario Online Rx

* Magnetica Twist

* My Pokemon Ranch

 

That makes 67 total downloadable games through the first 3 years.

 

Seems to me like for the most part, Nintendo has kept the same number of games flowing, but moved up some titles from 2008 into 2007 in order to cover for a lack of third-party support, and also let out a flood of Virtual Console games in 2007 at the same time, with far fewer downloadable games released in 2008. Based on an average development time of 2-3 years, we should see a lot out of Nintendo in 2009 and 2010, and given Nintendo's recent strategy of only announcing games within 6 months of release, we probably don't even yet know what will be available for 2009's holiday season.

 

What does this mean for 2008? Yes, there does seem to be a bit of a gap in Nintendo's first-party development, particularly in this holiday season - early 2008 actually wasn't too bad. For the most part, the gap can be attributed to Nintendo covering for weak third-party support in 2007, and perhaps Nintendo was either hoping the third parties would step up in 2008, or merely allowing them the opportunity to do so.

 

Either way, that quality third-party support has by and large failed to materialize so far. You have to wonder if the third-party companies have missed a crucial opportunity to really see a lot of commercial success on the Wii platform this holiday season, or if that window will still be open in early 2009, because the Nintendo first-party machine is still churning away and third-party publishers that haven't caught on by now probably never will.

 

As for this holiday season, you can expect that the millions of new Wii owners will be picking up games released in the first half of 2008, or even earlier - particularly Wii Play, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart Wii, in addition to first-party core champions Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy, and even The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Overall software sales will probably still be high, as these new owners will be buying something to play.

 

How about the Wii owners who purchased their system in 2006 or 2007, and have already purchased these titles? There are a handful of new quality games out there, but for the most part you'd have to think they'd be stuck buying and playing older games, playing on another system altogether, or just not playing anything at all, and that could be a problem in getting these early adopters to maintain enough interest in the Wii to pay attention to 2009's software lineup next year.

 

I don't want to be too negative here, because for most people the number of games already released is enough to keep us busy and happy (myself included). To conclude on a high note, here's a small sample of what potential quality titles we already know are on the way for the Wii through spring 2009:

 

* Rock Band 2 (just before Christmas 2008)

* Deadly Creatures (possibly late 2008)

* The Conduit

* MadWorld

* Little King's Story

* Rune Factory Frontier

* House of the Dead: Overkill

* Tenchu 4: Art of the Ninja

* Sonic & the Black Knight

* Punch-Out

* Wii Sports Resort

* Sin & Punishment 2 (could be late 2009)

[Guest Jordan]

* Rock Band 2 (just before Christmas 2008)

 

After reading your huuuuge post, I saw this and chuckled a little.

 

Why would you buy Rock Band 1 or 2 on anything other than a 360 or PS3? I mean, DLC and features were ripped out of the Wii version and thats most of the point of the game.

[S.C.G]

Can someone put some highlights? I'm too casual to read it all.

 

skim-read it, I did... godd article btw but it doesn't tell us anything that we don't allready know... *goes back to playing on 360*

[LazyBoy]

Why then am I a happy Wii/DS owner?!

 

To my eyes the Wii and DS (with the exception of the shovelware that comes with a large install base) have games that stray further from the established paths of design in gaming. The driving force that allows this...the so called "casual" audience!

 

Unlike the "hardcore" they don't care whether a first person shooter doesn't play like halo or the differing control schemes between FIFA and ProEvo. Xenophobic gamers make it hard for creativity to exist outside of small itterations to existing ideas because they need to be reassured that the game is something familiar before they'll buy. This is part of the reason for the limited shelf life of games on other consoles... old games are seen as redundant as soon as a new irreration arrives.

 

I want to address this as someone who has begun to lose their love for Nintendo this generation. I bought the Wii because I also thought it would allow a new wave of gameplay, inventive, creative fresh. I didn't stop playing the Wii because, I now think differently. I stopped playing because I think it hasn't delivered. Animal crossing, Disaster, Smash Bros, Zelda, Mario Kart. These are in no way new or creative. Smash Bros and Zelda may be great games, but they're not what I came for. Now I love having them because you need those traditional games as well, and they kept me going whilst I waited for my sword fighting game. But we're not getting those anymore either. (And don't try and show me Animal Crossing here, there is a difference between fresh and creative games and improved games. Animal Crossing is neither of these). The games now fall into three categories: traditional, gimmiky (Raving Rabids), or new but insubstantial (elebits).

 

The 360 and PS3 are, yes, lacking in new creative games. But the point is they still have those substantial traditional games instead. The Wii IMO has neither at the moment. Start showing me substantial traditional games or substantial new and inventive games and i'll flock back.

[darksnowman]

Start showing me substantial traditional games or substantial new and inventive games and i'll flock back.

 

I'm gonna have to step in and take this opportunity to point you in the direction of your avatar, Mrs Coulter.

[LazyBoy]

It's not here yet. Instead right now i'm playing GOW2. Call me when it arrives.

[darksnowman]

You could pre-emptively flock back though. Buy a shooter for the Wii to tide you over!

[LazyBoy]

I'd love to, recommend me any shooter on the Wii. Oh but it's gotta have offline multiplayer. Which one should I buy?

[killer kirby]

This year has been a gem for me. So many posts of gamers crying over how there are no games for the Wii and that they won't touch something that the the whole family can play, been enjoyable to read

Yeah, it's true that Nintendo hasn't brought out the best for this year...but shit, the way everyone is acting, it's like the end of the world.

I don't know about you, but the Wii IMO had fantastic games this year...

Mario Kart

Super Smash Bros Brawl.

Disaster Day Of Crisis.

Wii Fit

Wii music

Animal Crossing (It's the first time for me playing it so I don't care what you guys say)

 

So Nintendo are taking it a lot easier. Shit, I'm happy. I have far too many games to get through at the moment, you just have to look at the DS line-up to see that(and the PS2).

 

In the end, I don't care. As long as Nintendo bring out the games which I enjoy I really couldn't care less if they were bringing out more to the casual, heck, that's good for me, means I have more fun with other people.

[dazzybee]

After reading your huuuuge post, I saw this and chuckled a little.

 

Why would you buy Rock Band 1 or 2 on anything other than a 360 or PS3? I mean, DLC and features were ripped out of the Wii version and thats most of the point of the game.

 

Erm, Rock Band 2 has all the features, so before you come here with your anti-Wii vibe do a bit of research :P

 

I want to address this as someone who has begun to lose their love for Nintendo this generation. I bought the Wii because I also thought it would allow a new wave of gameplay, inventive, creative fresh. I didn't stop playing the Wii because, I now think differently. I stopped playing because I think it hasn't delivered. Animal crossing, Disaster, Smash Bros, Zelda, Mario Kart. These are in no way new or creative. Smash Bros and Zelda may be great games, but they're not what I came for. Now I love having them because you need those traditional games as well, and they kept me going whilst I waited for my sword fighting game. But we're not getting those anymore either. (And don't try and show me Animal Crossing here, there is a difference between fresh and creative games and improved games. Animal Crossing is neither of these). The games now fall into three categories: traditional, gimmiky (Raving Rabids), or new but insubstantial (elebits).

 

The 360 and PS3 are, yes, lacking in new creative games. But the point is they still have those substantial traditional games instead. The Wii IMO has neither at the moment. Start showing me substantial traditional games or substantial new and inventive games and i'll flock back.

 

Your post is bollocks; you pick traditional games to give an example of not having creative software.

 

It's like me saying 360 doesn't have any hardcore games because I've played Viva Pinata! Why give examples of software which AREN'T what we're talking about?! Why didn't you meantion Lostwinds or World of Goo? Why didn't you meantion De Blob, Boom Blox, Zack and Wicki, Wii Music, or Wii Sports? WHy didn't you mention Pro Evolution Soccer or Tiger Woods? Why didn't you mention that the Wii houses EASILY the best FPS controls on a console?

 

As an aside - I prefer Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy and Metroid Corruption more than every single 360 and PS3 game I've played!

[darkjak]

You know where I stand in this debate.

While casual games are worthy of a place in the industry, Nintendo now have to do something to further broaden their demographic. This should be done by giving the audience all the experiences you can get from the other consoles, thus giving a complete range of games. This could be done via exclusivity deals, starting new teams and a bunch of other stuff.

 

Creating a new team isn't really that hard. A bunch of previous students at my university have, after just learning the theory of developing games, without ever having worked in the industry created a team, developed a game and got it published in under a year. Nintendo have been developing games and creating teams for 20 years, they should be able to surpass that by far!

 

 

That said, there's plenty of secrecy going on, and the comparasint to the cold war isn't so far fetched. The sides have no idea of what "weapon" the other is going to be "equiped" with, and they both dislike the others "ideology". 2009 will surelly be a great year, but the truly frustrating thing is that we don't know.

 

I'm hoping that this supposed Wii Motorsports will turnout to be a Gran Turismo-killer, and you can allways hope that Retro Studios are going to release an FPS based on the MP3 engine.

[dazzybee]

You know where I stand in this debate.

While casual games are worthy of a place in the industry, Nintendo now have to do something to further broaden their demographic. This should be done by giving the audience all the experiences you can get from the other consoles, thus giving a complete range of games. This could be done via exclusivity deals, starting new teams and a bunch of other stuff.

 

Creating a new team isn't really that hard. A bunch of previous students at my university have, after just learning the theory of developing games, without ever having worked in the industry created a team, developed a game and got it published in under a year. Nintendo have been developing games and creating teams for 20 years, they should be able to surpass that by far!

 

 

That said, there's plenty of secrecy going on, and the comparasint to the cold war isn't so far fetched. The sides have no idea of what "weapon" the other is going to be "equiped" with, and they both dislike the others "ideology". 2009 will surelly be a great year, but the truly frustrating thing is that we don't know.

 

I'm hoping that this supposed Wii Motorsports will turnout to be a Gran Turismo-killer, and you can allways hope that Retro Studios are going to release an FPS based on the MP3 engine.

 

Anything called Wii Motorsports will NOT be a GT killer!!

 

PS It will be infinitely better, but completely different!

[darksnowman]

I'd love to, recommend me any shooter on the Wii. Oh but it's gotta have offline multiplayer. Which one should I buy?

 

I only have Red Steel- it has offline multiplay which ain't too bad. I read that the new Call of Duty game has a character thats voiced by Keifer Sutherland so I'd go for that one if I were you! As for multiplayer:

 

Multiplayer -- Call of Duty: World at War will support intense, online multiplayer action using the Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare engine. Bringing multiplayer to the Wii for the first time in the Call of Duty franchise, players will be able battle it out in a variety of game types, plus upgrade and customize characters by using perks and completing challenges.

 

That specifcally mentions online play but not offline. There is offline two player in it, but it seems to be strictly for co-op purposes-

 

Squadmate -- This cooperative mode lets players team up to play alongside friends and family. At any moment, a second Wii Remote can be activated, giving the second player their own aiming crosshair to provide cover and added firepower while fighting alongside their Squadmate.

 

I nabbed that info from the IGN CoD: WaW page.

 

Looking at the page for Medal of Honor Heroes 2, I see that its at a loss for local multiplay too. I thought split screen was pretty standard in this day and age?

 

Multiplayer Functions

• Online Versus Multiplayer (32 players)
  
• Online Multiplayer

So the way I see it is you have two options- get Red Steel if you haven't played it and decided you hate it already. Approach it with an open mind and you will be surprised by how decent the one player is, and how fun the split screen can be. Failing that, whip out the N64 and play Duke Nukem 64. (Seriously, I'm not joking! Dukematches are so good!)

[LazyBoy]

Erm, Rock Band 2 has all the features, so before you come here with your anti-Wii vibe do a bit of research :P

 

 

 

Your post is bollocks; you pick traditional games to give an example of not having creative software.

 

It's like me saying 360 doesn't have any hardcore games because I've played Viva Pinata! Why give examples of software which AREN'T what we're talking about?! Why didn't you meantion Lostwinds or World of Goo? Why didn't you meantion De Blob, Boom Blox, Zack and Wicki, Wii Music, or Wii Sports? WHy didn't you mention Pro Evolution Soccer or Tiger Woods? Why didn't you mention that the Wii houses EASILY the best FPS controls on a console?

 

As an aside - I prefer Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy and Metroid Corruption more than every single 360 and PS3 game I've played!

 

The Wii easily houses the best FPS controls on a console. Shame it doesn't have the best FPS games on any console.

 

And you seem to have completely missed my point since all those games that you mentioned are fun but lacked substance, except pro evo and tiger woods which are (imo) inferior to their 360 & PS3 counterparts. Lost winds is an hour long, world of goo is inferior to the PC version, de blob doesn't do anything that couldn't be done on another console (though I am actually a fan of the game), I've now played wiimusic and thought it was freaking retarded, and I love wiisports. But I've had it for a couple of years now.

 

And most of all show me the game that couldn't be done on any other console, that also lasts long enough to validate a forty pound purchase. Show me that game that makes it alright that the Wii is underpowered, because the games do things the other consoles can't.

 

Show me my 1:1 lightsaber game.

 

I only have Red Steel- it has offline multiplay which ain't too bad. I read that the new Call of Duty game has a character thats voiced by Keifer Sutherland so I'd go for that one if I were you! As for multiplayer:

 

So the way I see it is you have two options- get Red Steel if you haven't played it and decided you hate it already. Approach it with an open mind and you will be surprised by how decent the one player is, and how fun the split screen can be. Failing that, whip out the N64 and play Duke Nukem 64. (Seriously, I'm not joking! Dukematches are so good!)

 

Played and disappointed in Red Steel years ago. Sorry, but thanks for trying. Shame, because it is the bare minimum for me for an FPS to have split-screen offline, so I can play with my Dad and brother. Otherwise I would of totally bought the conduit.

[Phube]

I only have Red Steel- it has offline multiplay which ain't too bad. I read that the new Call of Duty game has a character thats voiced by Keifer Sutherland so I'd go for that one if I were you! As for multiplayer:

 

 

 

That specifcally mentions online play but not offline. There is offline two player in it, but it seems to be strictly for co-op purposes-

 

 

 

I nabbed that info from the IGN CoD: WaW page.

 

Looking at the page for Medal of Honor Heroes 2, I see that its at a loss for local multiplay too. I thought split screen was pretty standard in this day and age?

 

So the way I see it is you have two options- get Red Steel if you haven't played it and decided you hate it already. Approach it with an open mind and you will be surprised by how decent the one player is, and how fun the split screen can be. Failing that, whip out the N64 and play Duke Nukem 64. (Seriously, I'm not joking! Dukematches are so good!)

 

 

Well that can't be right... because the Wii isn't even "Online"!?!?

[S.C.G]

Erm, Rock Band 2 has all the features, so before you come here with your anti-Wii vibe do a bit of research :P

 

 

Can you rip and convert all of the tracks on the RB1 disc for use with RB2 on the Wii version? As I was pretty sure that you couldn't... there is also a wealth of DLC that has been readily available on Xbox Live for ages that Wii owners will be missing out on also unless Harmonix decide to backtrack with their DLC.

 

Also no cross compatability with instruments from other games, unless you buy that extra add on for £15? from Datel or w/e... also RB/RB2 is a game all about audio and while it may not matter for some people I would take Dolby Digital over Pro Logic II any day, granted if you don't have a setup / system that can decode it then it doesn't matter but if you do then you will easily notice the difference.

 

Just small things I guess but they all add up and so for me, Xbox 360 is the platform of choice for Rock Band games.

[Jonnas]

You know where I stand in this debate.

While casual games are worthy of a place in the industry, Nintendo now have to do something to further broaden their demographic. This should be done by giving the audience all the experiences you can get from the other consoles, thus giving a complete range of games. This could be done via exclusivity deals, starting new teams and a bunch of other stuff.

 

They've been focused on tapping the unexplored part of the market, obviously. With games like MP3, Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros, Wario Land, etc, one would think that the "hardcore" share of the market would be already covered. And it is, actually.

 

Creating a new team isn't really that hard. A bunch of previous students at my university have, after just learning the theory of developing games, without ever having worked in the industry created a team, developed a game and got it published in under a year. Nintendo have been developing games and creating teams for 20 years, they should be able to surpass that by far!

 

Was the game good? Was it polished? Properly tested to check for glitches? Was it translated into several languages?

 

You, of all people, should know that a rushed/bad game becomes a waste of time.

 

That said, there's plenty of secrecy going on, and the comparasint to the cold war isn't so far fetched. The sides have no idea of what "weapon" the other is going to be "equiped" with, and they both dislike the others "ideology". 2009 will surelly be a great year, but the truly frustrating thing is that we don't know.

 

The cold war had no middle ground, just so you know. That is not the case here.

[dazzybee]

The Wii easily houses the best FPS controls on a console. Shame it doesn't have the best FPS games on any console.

 

And you seem to have completely missed my point since all those games that you mentioned are fun but lacked substance, except pro evo and tiger woods which are (imo) inferior to their 360 & PS3 counterparts. Lost winds is an hour long, world of goo is inferior to the PC version, de blob doesn't do anything that couldn't be done on another console (though I am actually a fan of the game), I've now played wiimusic and thought it was freaking retarded, and I love wiisports. But I've had it for a couple of years now.

 

And most of all show me the game that couldn't be done on any other console, that also lasts long enough to validate a forty pound purchase. Show me that game that makes it alright that the Wii is underpowered, because the games do things the other consoles can't.

 

Show me my 1:1 lightsaber game.

 

 

 

Played and disappointed in Red Steel years ago. Sorry, but thanks for trying. Shame, because it is the bare minimum for me for an FPS to have split-screen offline, so I can play with my Dad and brother. Otherwise I would of totally bought the conduit.

 

Metroid is the best FPS......

Lost winds an hour long? It's short but an hour? Jog on!

 

And I didn't miss your point at all. If you have played pro Evo Wii and think the 360/PS3 version is better...well....you can't like football, surely. Pro Evo controls on the Wii are simply phenomal, and is also an example I will give on something that COULDN'T be done on PS360!!

 

And De Blob could be done on the 360 and PS3 - BUT IT ISN'T!!! Why do you keep moving the goalposts? I want traditional games, I want creative original games, I want creative, original games that couldn't be done on 360, I want traditional, creative and fun games that are worth £40!!!!! HOW DOES DE BLOB NOT COUNT!!?!?!?!?!

 

And what constitutes as worth £40? Is it Cod4's 6 hour one player campaign? Is it Gears of Wars 10 hours?!?! Are these worth more than the 20-odd hours of Metroid, the 50 of Zelda. De Blob lasts longer then Gears of War and CoD4 - of shit, no De Blob doesn't count does it!!?? Well Zack and Wicki lasts longer than CoD4 and Gears put together.

 

Fact is, the point is stupid! Trust me, I understood your whole point.

 

And the 1:1 lightsaber game? Well 1. It'll come next year and 2. Show me it on the 360!

 

Will you show me the Turtle Simulator on the PS3 please!!

 

PS Wii games costs £30

PPS How is the PC version of Goo better?

PPPS I don't believe you have played Wii Music for more than 15 minutes

 

Can you rip and convert all of the tracks on the RB1 disc for use with RB2 on the Wii version? As I was pretty sure that you couldn't... there is also a wealth of DLC that has been readily available on Xbox Live for ages that Wii owners will be missing out on also unless Harmonix decide to backtrack with their DLC.

 

Also no cross compatability with instruments from other games, unless you buy that extra add on for £15? from Datel or w/e... also RB/RB2 is a game all about audio and while it may not matter for some people I would take Dolby Digital over Pro Logic II any day, granted if you don't have a setup / system that can decode it then it doesn't matter but if you do then you will easily notice the difference.

 

Just small things I guess but they all add up and so for me, Xbox 360 is the platform of choice for Rock Band games.

 

Thats not what he meant, he was talking about the gimped Rock Band 1; when 2 is fully featured.

[LazyBoy]

Metroid is the best FPS......

Lost winds an hour long? It's short but an hour? Jog on!

 

And I didn't miss your point at all. If you have played pro Evo Wii and think the 360/PS3 version is better...well....you can't like football, surely. Pro Evo controls on the Wii are simply phenomal, and is also an example I will give on something that COULDN'T be done on PS360!!

 

And De Blob could be done on the 360 and PS3 - BUT IT ISN'T!!! Why do you keep moving the goalposts? I want traditional games, I want creative original games, I want creative, original games that couldn't be done on 360, I want traditional, creative and fun games that are worth £40!!!!! HOW DOES DE BLOB NOT COUNT!!?!?!?!?!

 

And what constitutes as worth £40? Is it Cod4's 6 hour one player campaign? Is it Gears of Wars 10 hours?!?! Are these worth more than the 20-odd hours of Metroid, the 50 of Zelda. De Blob lasts longer then Gears of War and CoD4 - of shit, no De Blob doesn't count does it!!?? Well Zack and Wicki lasts longer than CoD4 and Gears put together.

 

Fact is, the point is stupid! Trust me, I understood your whole point.

 

And the 1:1 lightsaber game? Well 1. It'll come next year and 2. Show me it on the 360!

 

Will you show me the Turtle Simulator on the PS3 please!!

 

PS Wii games costs £30

PPS How is the PC version of Goo better?

PPPS I don't believe you have played Wii Music for more than 15 minutes

 

Metroid is not an FPS, its an FPA, massive difference. Metroid is about adventure, FPS are about action. Completely different type of game.

 

Pro evo is better on 360. Online, there's your reason. And who gives a fuck if it controls differently, I want a different type of game. Hardly a revolution in gaming is it?

 

My point is DeBlob doesn't substantiate the Wiis lack of power in favour of an expensive control system.

 

Go and ask anyone on the other consoles board if CoD4 is only 6 hours long. It has an online mode something the likes of which anything on the Wii doesn't even come close to. And Zack & Wiki has hardly got replay value has it?

 

You're saying there will be a 1:1 lightsaber game next year? Can I see this.

 

No the 360 can't do it. Instead this gen it went for more power and better online. The 360 is fully realising what it is capable of.

 

PC goo has better online options.

 

Only took me 15 minutes to realise Wii Music wasn't worth my money. 15 years of playing games means i've got fairly good at judging it.

 

I'm not criticising the Wii because I get off to getting argument with the guys on this board or because i'm some sony fanboy. It's because right now, imo, the ps3 and 360 are delivering and the Wii is not. I play my 360 all the time. My wii is in the cupboard. My fault? No. Really no.

[darksnowman]

...that also lasts long enough to validate a forty pound purchase.

 

This reminded me that DKC on the Snes was like... £60 when it came out over here, and you can complete it in under four hours at a doddle. Its still great value for money though!

 

Played and disappointed in Red Steel years ago. Sorry, but thanks for trying. Shame, because it is the bare minimum for me for an FPS to have split-screen offline, so I can play with my Dad and brother. Otherwise I would of totally bought the conduit.

 

Fair enough if you tried it. What about DS then? Get three and play Metroid Prime: Hunters with your Da and bro. Or how about putting the backwards compatibility of the Wii to use and getting Timesplitters 2? Come on Lazyboy, one way or another I'm gonna save you from this non-Nintendo mire you've lapsed into!

 

Well that can't be right... because the Wii isn't even "Online"!?!?

 

With the Wii "not being online," the mind boggles at how we play Mario Kart! How has it been possible? It must be down to those friend codes and... Shigsy is clearly a witch.

[Phube]

Metroid is not an FPS, its an FPA, massive difference. Metroid is about adventure, FPS are about action. Completely different type of game.

 

Pro evo is better on 360. Online, there's your reason. And who gives a fuck if it controls differently, I want a different type of game. Hardly a revolution in gaming is it?

 

 

I don't care about you whole argument thing... but can I just say... an RTS style football game, to my knowlegde, has never been done before hence "a different type of game". That you hanker after!

[dazzybee]

Metroid is not an FPS, its an FPA, massive difference. Metroid is about adventure, FPS are about action. Completely different type of game.

 

Pro evo is better on 360. Online, there's your reason. And who gives a fuck if it controls differently, I want a different type of game. Hardly a revolution in gaming is it?

 

My point is DeBlob doesn't substantiate the Wiis lack of power in favour of an expensive control system.

 

Go and ask anyone on the other consoles board if CoD4 is only 6 hours long. It has an online mode something the likes of which anything on the Wii doesn't even come close to. And Zack & Wiki has hardly got replay value has it?

 

You're saying there will be a 1:1 lightsaber game next year? Can I see this.

 

No the 360 can't do it. Instead this gen it went for more power and better online. The 360 is fully realising what it is capable of.

 

PC goo has better online options.

 

Only took me 15 minutes to realise Wii Music wasn't worth my money. 15 years of playing games means i've got fairly good at judging it.

 

I'm not criticising the Wii because I get off to getting argument with the guys on this board or because i'm some sony fanboy. It's because right now, imo, the ps3 and 360 are delivering and the Wii is not. I play my 360 all the time. My wii is in the cupboard. My fault? No. Really no.

 

My I'm sorry, but I know for a FACT that you are talking about things you don't fully understand. Other than the fact that Pro Evo Wii is unlike any other football game ever and you are dismissing it!! WHAT!?!?! But Pro Evo Wii is AN ONLINE GAME. And what's more, is WAY SMOOTHER than the 360 version. Trust me, I have both! If you actually played both games you know you'd be talking shit. Trust me, this isn't subjective opinion, it's FACT.

 

And playing games for 15 years and can know a game in 15 minutes Are you real?!?! You're intellgient, you have strong opinion, I like you; but this comment doesn't do you any favours.

 

Zack and Wicki no replay. Well it does actually, again if you played it you'd know that there are loads of hidden challenges in the game. But like most Wii games it sounds like you haven't really played them. And personally a 20 hour adventure with more original design then most NEXT GEN games is good enough for me.

 

I don't need to go on other console board, because unlike you, I only talk about games I have played or own. Call of Duty 4 I own. And guess what, I play Mario Kart online 100 times more than I play CoD4 - but that can't be. Wii has shit online and to enjoy online you must have a 360!!!!

 

Mate, prefer the next gen machines, fine; there are some amazing games for all consoles; but your dismissal of the Wiis games, your moving of goalposts in its software, your clear lack of actually playing a lot of the software....well......you sound a little uninformed whilst pretending to know a lot