Hellfire Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Exactly, most 3rd parties weren't counting on it, and now they don't know what to do and are playing catch up. Nomura-Enix for example, they clearly thought Wii would go down the drain, but they still didn't get it. EA at least is actually doing something.
killer kirby Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Hellfire said: Nomura-Enix for example, they clearly thought Wii would go down the drain, but they still didn't get it. Nomura wants all his zippers, belts and Gackt characters in glory HD.
Emasher Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Choze said: That is quite naive. All these games would be on Wii but arent because of Sony and MS. There has been a ton of investment in developing for 360 for example. Wii's success kind of puts a wrench into that. There are plenty of people out there who dont like Wii's success. EA for example are paying badly now. They put their bets on the 360 and that didnt quite work out. Now they are floundering everywhere. So its Nintendo's fault that EA is doing badly because they put their bets on another console and Nintendo's console is doing better?
dazzybee Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Hmmm, interesting debate, wish I could have added my rant but it's all died down now But I will add this; Hellfires epic post was fantastic! Great insight and inbiase, brilliant! spirited away said: The thing with the 360 atm: it's providing me with many 'wow' moments. Engrossing gameplay, cutting-edge technology, incredible storylines - these are all things I consider synonomous with the platform. The vision, the scope, the drive to innovate in terms of narratives, and gameplay; the connectivity and the sheer visual splendour that more and more games possess. This vision is just more in line with my gaming styles and perception of the industrie's direction. I see solid games on the Wii - but nothing that makes me go 'wow', and invokes any substantial reaction. From a selfish point of view, i'm not a fan of the change. I couldn't care less if Nintendo is the market leader, or has introduced new people to gaming; I'm not liking the direction Nintendo have chosen to take and I know quite a few others feel the same. The thing is though, I love film for my great stories and dialogue. I don't think any game has really even got close - GTA4, Fable 2, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, they TRY and be all cinematic with great stories etc. But I just find them awful (not the games, but how hard they are obviously trying to have great stories and scripts); games are there to be played, so for me, how the game PLAYS is of primary importance. Maase said: Yes, now that i look at that perspective, Nintendo has been working so much, and yet its the most hated console on the net. Humans love the underdog. We ALWAYS bring down the winner! ALWAYS!!
steggy Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 dazzybee said: The thing is though, I love film for my great stories and dialogue. I don't think any game has really even got close - GTA4, Fable 2, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, they TRY and be all cinematic with great stories etc. But I just find them awful (not the games, but how hard they are obviously trying to have great stories and scripts); games are there to be played, so for me, how the game PLAYS is of primary importance. Have you ever played Anachronox, it's one of my favourite games for cinematic feel, here's a clip of one of the cutscenes. Escape From Sunder
darkjak Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 This is pretty much fingerpointing. Rather than developing core games to prove that there is an audience on the wii by releasing some different games, Nintendo are yet again pointing their finger against the third parties, saying "that's their fault/job". To increase their proffits, Nintendo need to start new studios and create new franchises. Nintendo also need to start convince/pay developers to make certain big name games Wii exclusive. I've said this so many time it's not funny anymore, but contact Bizzare Creations and ask for MSR2.
Emasher Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 But there are a bunch of hardcore games coming soon from Nintendo.
Hellfire Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 darkjak said: This is pretty much fingerpointing.Rather than developing core games to prove that there is an audience on the wii by releasing some different games, Nintendo are yet again pointing their finger against the third parties, saying "that's their fault/job". To increase their proffits, Nintendo need to start new studios and create new franchises. Nintendo also need to start convince/pay developers to make certain big name games Wii exclusive. I've said this so many time it's not funny anymore, but contact Bizzare Creations and ask for MSR2. I appologize for using this overused image, but It's not even worth it to further into it, as we've had this discussion so many times, with lists always showing core games and new games, but somehow it's like a gaping hole in reality. And yeah, they really need to increase their profits. Also, Nintendo should really take the blame and Reggie should throw himself onto a sword when commenting on the quality of 3rd party games, because you know, 3rd party games are made by Nintendo. Yes Reggie, we know you're knew here, you just came out of school, but next time when asked about the status of 3rd party games, for the love of God, be evasive and talk about the weather, do not, I repeat, do not answer the question you were asked.
darkjak Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Hellfire said: It's not even worth it to further into it, as we've had this discussion so many times, with lists always showing core games and new games, but somehow it's like a gaping hole in reality. These lists of core games allways lack stuff. There's yet to come a good "realistic" racer for the Wii. There's yet to come a good FPS that doesen't take place during WWII (MAYBE the Conduit will improve on that). There's yet to come a good RTS. (Has there even been an RTS at all for the Wii yet?). There's yet to be a good fighter (beyond Smash Bros). Frankly, what's happening on this forum is similar to what here in Sweden's called homophobia-phobia, which refers to people who refuse to say anything negative about any homosexual ever, in fear of being called homophobes. Hellfire said: And yeah, they really need to increase their profits. Also, Nintendo should really take the blame and Reggie should throw himself onto a sword when commenting on the quality of 3rd party games, because you know, 3rd party games are made by Nintendo. Reggie commenting the third party games is a good thing. Like I wrote in my first post in this thread, It's great that Nintendo are seing the situation. However, that the most successful console manufacturer of the current generation should set the bar for games on their console, rather than just saying how bad everyone else is. The only reason Nintendo weren't making more games has been a lack of resources, and low probability in making profit. Nintendo now have the larger market that can buy more different types of games, and they have enough resources to start a whole s**tload of new teams to create these games. All companies strive to expand, make more profits and to dominate the market they're involved in. Nintendo will not be able to get a secure position on the market without beating Sony and MS at their own game, and steal their audience. Nintendo will surely dominate this generation, but what about next gen? Hellfire said: Yes Reggie, we know you're knew here, you just came out of school, but next time when asked about the status of 3rd party games, for the love of God, be evasive and talk about the weather, do not, I repeat, do not answer the question you were asked. Nintendo are not trying to help the third parties in making the right decision. Would it really hurt them that much to do like they've done in the past and say go to third parties, and ask to cooperate on some project. Imagine if you'd go into a game store and see the following on the shelf Not likely today, but in the past it would be highly likely. Nintendo went through quite some lengths to get Ridge Racer on the N64 and to get Final Fantasy and Metal Gear to the Gamecube.
darksnowman Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 darkjak said: There's yet to be a good fighter (beyond Smash Bros). Argh, this isn't the beginning of the list wars, ok? I just feel the need to point out... Reveal hidden contents Guilty Gear darkjak said: Imagine if you'd go into a game store and see the following on the shelf msr2.jpg If I was to see MSR II Wii on the shelf I'd bypass it. Yucky and boring realistic racing games, keep them on the PS3 and 360 I say. Now, if I was to see a Wii F-Zero on the shelf...
mcj metroid Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 thought you didn't like f-zero gx darksnowman ?
Pit-Jr Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 darksnowman said: . Now, if I was to see a Wii F-Zero on the shelf... You probably will! in the form of F-Zero GX 'Play on Wii'
Emasher Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 darkjak said: These lists of core games allways lack stuff. There's yet to come a good "realistic" racer for the Wii. There's yet to come a good FPS that doesen't take place during WWII (MAYBE the Conduit will improve on that). There's yet to come a good RTS. (Has there even been an RTS at all for the Wii yet?). There's yet to be a good fighter (beyond Smash Bros). Frankly, what's happening on this forum is similar to what here in Sweden's called homophobia-phobia, which refers to people who refuse to say anything negative about any homosexual ever, in fear of being called homophobes. Reggie commenting the third party games is a good thing. Like I wrote in my first post in this thread, It's great that Nintendo are seing the situation. However, that the most successful console manufacturer of the current generation should set the bar for games on their console, rather than just saying how bad everyone else is. The only reason Nintendo weren't making more games has been a lack of resources, and low probability in making profit. Nintendo now have the larger market that can buy more different types of games, and they have enough resources to start a whole s**tload of new teams to create these games. All companies strive to expand, make more profits and to dominate the market they're involved in. Nintendo will not be able to get a secure position on the market without beating Sony and MS at their own game, and steal their audience. Nintendo will surely dominate this generation, but what about next gen? Nintendo are not trying to help the third parties in making the right decision. Would it really hurt them that much to do like they've done in the past and say go to third parties, and ask to cooperate on some project. Imagine if you'd go into a game store and see the following on the shelf Not likely today, but in the past it would be highly likely. Nintendo went through quite some lengths to get Ridge Racer on the N64 and to get Final Fantasy and Metal Gear to the Gamecube. Do we really need a realistic racer? Realism tends to be less fun in games, why not just have a fun racer and not care about weather its realistic or not. Basically what you're doing with FPS games is listing all the decent ones that are on the Wii and saying they don't count. Just because a game takes place in WWII doesn't mean its automatically bad. MOH:H2 was great, and I've been hearing good things about COD:WAW. And then there's Metroid Prime 3, though you're probably going to come up with some reason why you thought it was bad anyway. There might not have been an RTS, but RTS isn't really a genre thats common on consoles to begin with in general. Pikmin 3 is hopefully still coming though. Is there any reason we can't support Nintendo. Most of us have had some great experiences this generation with Nintendo. Just because all the games don't specifically cater to your unique taste doesn't mean its not catering to anyone else. Nintendo have set the bar with games like Mario Galaxy. So you work for Nintendo then, you know all their secrets and what their up to? You don't know what they're up to at all. None of us do. But judging by the amount of money they're making, I'm pretty sure they're going to do something with it. They know next generation every console is going to have a Wii Remote knock off, and that they're going to have to have something new. Nintendo aren't stupid, they know the market very well. I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing them do that. But If I saw that game on a store shelf I probably wouldn't buy it as I'm not really that into generic racers, and a lot of other people I think will agree with this.
darksnowman Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 mcj metroid said: thought you didn't like f-zero gx darksnowman ? Really? F-Zero is one of my favourite series, always has been since the Snes one! The only thing I didn't like about GX was the music. (Btw, tis Metroid that I don't like. )
mcj metroid Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 darksnowman said: Really? F-Zero is one of my favourite series, always has been since the Snes one! The only thing I didn't like about GX was the music. (Btw, tis Metroid that I don't like. ) ah i knew it was one of them haha
Hellfire Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 darkjak said: Frankly, what's happening on this forum is similar to what here in Sweden's called homophobia-phobia, which refers to people who refuse to say anything negative about any homosexual ever, in fear of being called homophobes. Except that most people on this forum are usually bashing Nintendo and most users are mainly 360 fans, but yeah whatever works. Like I said, it's pointless to start a list wars, since you say it's always missing stuff, even if it isn't. Also, because other consoles have a perfectly complete catalogue. They have everything! Lack of resources? When? Nintendo has always been swimming in money, they never lacked resources. They need to show developers? What about the fact that their titles are high quality, diverse, old IPs and new IPs and taking casual games seriously instead of what 3rd parties are saying? Or the fact that they're implementing the controls with great success? What he says is perfectly correct, most 3rd parties don't get it, to them making a casual game is synonim of making a cheap rushed game, while Nintendo is releasing new and original casual games, well developed and well pushed, which is the opposite of most 3rd parties and the best example that can be given to them. And this is the core of the matter. Funny how you ignore the fact that they secured games like Tenchu, Fatal Frame, Endless Ocean, Sin & Punishment 2 and Monster Hunter and how they pushed 3rd party games at E3 and other shows like they never did before. They were never this involved with 3rd parties. Just because you want Nintendo to make every single genre on the Earth so they can dominate everything, doesn't mean they need to do it. Monopolies and moneyhats aren't a necessity in my book. Yes, it would be nice to see some 360/Ps3 franchises on the Wii, yes it would be nice to see some Wii franchises on 360/PS3, but you know, that's pretty much the norm in a multi-console market.
Grazza Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 King_V said: Exactly how I feel. *man hug + pat on back* Very butch hug back! darksnowman said: Really? F-Zero is one of my favourite series, always has been since the Snes one! The only thing I didn't like about GX was the music. (Btw, tis Metroid that I don't like. ) I love F-Zero too, and 2D Metroid, whereas I'm not keen on 1st-person Metroid and I can't stand any version of Mario Kart, ever! You know, Emasher is 100% right that all systems need the masses, and that good games are available on all of them. It's not that I like the shooters on the 360, or think they're more "hardcore" than the Wii games, because I don't. What I'm saying is that Mario, Zelda et al would benefit far more from that kind of horsepower (and dual-analogue controller, for that matter) than they would from anything about the Wii. The mainstream are happy with Call of Duty, Gears of War etc, the other type of casuals are happy with Wii Sports etc. It's actually only the Nintendo fan who loses out - those of us who know how good their games can be when they've evolved a full generation. My general point in this is that Nintendo have spent the past three and a half years telling gamers what we want and developers what they want. "You don't need processing power, you don't want HD" etc... It's about time they listened. Take the hint, Reggie! It's not that they don't "get" the Wii, it's just that they don't much like it. You can't tell developers what they want in a system. It's not that Nintendo's 1st-party games are bad. In general, the quality is still there, but nothing about the machine is able to elevate them in the same way the N64 and GameCube games were from their previous versions. If Nintendo can't demonstrate that the Wii can improve their own games, why should 3rd-parties think it can improve theirs?
Hellfire Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Grazza said: Very butch hug back! I love F-Zero too, and 2D Metroid, whereas I'm not keen on 1st-person Metroid and I can't stand any version of Mario Kart, ever! You know, Emasher is 100% right that all systems need the masses, and that good games are available on all of them. It's not that I like the shooters on the 360, or think they're more "hardcore" than the Wii games, because I don't. What I'm saying is that Mario, Zelda et al would benefit far more from that kind of horsepower (and dual-analogue controller, for that matter) than they would from anything about the Wii. The mainstream are happy with Call of Duty, Gears of War etc, the other type of casuals are happy with Wii Sports etc. It's actually only the Nintendo fan who loses out - those of us who know how good their games can be when they've evolved a full generation. My general point in this is that Nintendo have spent the past three and a half years telling gamers what we want and developers what they want. "You don't need processing power, you don't want HD" etc... It's about time they listened. Take the hint, Reggie! It's not that they don't "get" the Wii, it's just that they don't much like it. You can't tell developers what they want in a system. It's not that Nintendo's 1st-party games are bad. In general, the quality is still there, but nothing about the machine is able to elevate them in the same way the N64 and GameCube games were from their previous versions. If Nintendo can't demonstrate that the Wii can improve their own games, why should 3rd-parties think it can improve theirs? So you can vouch for the entire demographic about what we want and need? I don't feel like I'm losing out at all, on the contrary, specially because I feel their Wii games are better than the previous ones, but maybe it's because I'm one of those who can't tell how good a game can be when evolved a whole generation. Which apparently means better graphics and HD.
D_prOdigy Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Grazza said: Very butch hug back! I love F-Zero too, and 2D Metroid, whereas I'm not keen on 1st-person Metroid and I can't stand any version of Mario Kart, ever! You know, Emasher is 100% right that all systems need the masses, and that good games are available on all of them. It's not that I like the shooters on the 360, or think they're more "hardcore" than the Wii games, because I don't. What I'm saying is that Mario, Zelda et al would benefit far more from that kind of horsepower (and dual-analogue controller, for that matter) than they would from anything about the Wii. The mainstream are happy with Call of Duty, Gears of War etc, the other type of casuals are happy with Wii Sports etc. It's actually only the Nintendo fan who loses out - those of us who know how good their games can be when they've evolved a full generation. My general point in this is that Nintendo have spent the past three and a half years telling gamers what we want and developers what they want. "You don't need processing power, you don't want HD" etc... It's about time they listened. Take the hint, Reggie! It's not that they don't "get" the Wii, it's just that they don't much like it. You can't tell developers what they want in a system. It's not that Nintendo's 1st-party games are bad. In general, the quality is still there, but nothing about the machine is able to elevate them in the same way the N64 and GameCube games were from their previous versions. If Nintendo can't demonstrate that the Wii can improve their own games, why should 3rd-parties think it can improve theirs? This is more than a bit contradictory. You're complaining about Nintendo "telling" gamers and developers what they want while you're telling every single console owner what they want. As Hellfire said, I am happy with the games I have on Wii, and have no interest in buying a secondary console for the games that appear exclusively on them. Must make me some sort of arm-flailing granny.
Grazza Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 D_prOdigy said: This is more than a bit contradictory. You're complaining about Nintendo "telling" gamers and developers what they want while you're telling every single console owner what they want. C'mon, it's obvious unbiased, general gamers are disappointed with the Wii. Fanboys are happy though, as it says "Nintendo" on it.
dazzybee Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Grazza said: C'mon, it's obvious unbiased, general gamers are disappointed with the Wii. Fanboys are happy though, as it says "Nintendo" on it. Made do you read your comments? Are you TRYING to annoy people? What the fuck are you talking about? "General gamers are unhappy with the Wii" What the fuck does this mean? Whats a general gamer? Mate, you're a fucking moron and if you don't have any insight or any substance to your posts can you please just post in the OTHER CONSOLES board and be a little more positive in life. You wanna have a debate, fine; but start being a little more intelligent and insightful with your posts.
Emasher Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 General gamers are people who just sort of buy the console that looks more popular or looks more interesting rather than being a fanboy I think. Grazza has a few good points though. I do think however that Reggie should be telling off third parties. I mean the Wii might not be an HD console, but it has a huge market, and there are tons of Hardcore Wii owners who will buy anything really decent. With the PS3 and 360, there are lots of hardcore games coming out, so rather than the majority of hardcore users buying the game on the Wii, you would get less on the other two. And there are a lot of games that could easily be brought to the Wii but just aren't. Reggie is also the President of Nintendo's American Division. Its his job to do this so don't diss him just for doing his job. I mean, isn't he saying what most of us have been saying for the last year or so? The next generation is going to be very different I think, the playing field will be more level in terms of horsepower and we'll be getting all these games that are currently only coming out on PS3, 360 and sometimes PC. Next generation will again be I think about the big exclusive games rather than Hardware.
Ganepark32 Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 It's been interesting to sit back and read this. Reggie does have a point about the third party devs but in some respect he is also talking about Nintendo because do THEY really get the Wii? I think the problem is that noone knows what the Wii is about. It's about families sitting down and playing together. It's about kids playing more interactive stuff. It's about this and about that. The problem is that the Wii is shooting for several demographics and so devs are feeling that they need to do things for all of them in the games, which means they end up muddled and awful trying to do too many things. Third parties though do need to get a finger out on their games. We've had some absolutely great 3rd party games but a lot of awful ones. A little more time invested into a game that is only meh could make it great. The Wii isn't lacking anything, game wise. It's got all of the Wii titles and all of the Gamecube ones in it's catalogue. Looking for a racer, try F Zero GX. Want something more realistic, try R Racing. People just need to get over the moaning about there not being this and there not being that on the console. The Wii won't get an equivalent to something like Gears of War and for that I think it's great. Not having a console bombarded with shooters makes for a change.
dazzybee Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Grazza said: Very butch hug back! I love F-Zero too, and 2D Metroid, whereas I'm not keen on 1st-person Metroid and I can't stand any version of Mario Kart, ever! You know, Emasher is 100% right that all systems need the masses, and that good games are available on all of them. It's not that I like the shooters on the 360, or think they're more "hardcore" than the Wii games, because I don't. What I'm saying is that Mario, Zelda et al would benefit far more from that kind of horsepower (and dual-analogue controller, for that matter) than they would from anything about the Wii. The mainstream are happy with Call of Duty, Gears of War etc, the other type of casuals are happy with Wii Sports etc. It's actually only the Nintendo fan who loses out - those of us who know how good their games can be when they've evolved a full generation. My general point in this is that Nintendo have spent the past three and a half years telling gamers what we want and developers what they want. "You don't need processing power, you don't want HD" etc... It's about time they listened. Take the hint, Reggie! It's not that they don't "get" the Wii, it's just that they don't much like it. You can't tell developers what they want in a system. It's not that Nintendo's 1st-party games are bad. In general, the quality is still there, but nothing about the machine is able to elevate them in the same way the N64 and GameCube games were from their previous versions. If Nintendo can't demonstrate that the Wii can improve their own games, why should 3rd-parties think it can improve theirs? Okay, maybe I should have read back through everything, you do have insight and put forward an intellgient respsonse I completely disagree with it, but at least it's thougt out. So please ignore the harshness of my last pst when I thought you were just being a git!! I completely disagree with 1st party games not being up to standard. During the Gamcube people were saying exactly the same thing then too - "The quality is no where near the N64 and SNES"; next generation people will be saying "Games arent a patch on Gamecube and Wii!" It's just the way things go! Also disagree about the third parties, though I understand my disagreement is completely subjective; I think HD and horsepower have advanced things EXTREMELY little and the Wii has moved genres on WAY more and introduced new ones too. History, I'm sure, will show this as the case. But again, I like some traditional games occassionally too and believe 3rd perties will start releasing some amazing software - Conduit, Madowlrd, Monster Hunter 3 is just the start of some potentially AAA 3rd party releases!! Would I prefer the Wii to be HD and as powerful as the next gen, in theory yes. At the sacrifice of the motion controls, simplicity and style? Not a chance
darkjak Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Emasher said: Do we really need a realistic racer? Realism tends to be less fun in games, why not just have a fun racer and not care about weather its realistic or not. Do you really want me to answer that? OK, suit yourself. Yes, the Wii needs a high quality realistic racer to have a good variety of games. Just because you don't like realistic racers, doesen't mean that we shouldn't get one. And also, MSR isn't that realistic. It's got real cars, and takes place in real cities, but the cars aren't that hard to drive. Emasher said: Basically what you're doing with FPS games is listing all the decent ones that are on the Wii and saying they don't count. Just because a game takes place in WWII doesn't mean its automatically bad. MOH:H2 was great, and I've been hearing good things about COD:WAW. And then there's Metroid Prime 3, though you're probably going to come up with some reason why you thought it was bad anyway. MOH:H was a good game the first time I played through it. But I've noticed that I have no will whatsoever to play any of the levels again, like in Goldeneye, Perfect Dark or Timesplitters. Plus that the graphics were barelly N64 level. CoD:WAW was supposedly a good FPS, I'm thinking of buying it, but the game lacks some features that the other versions have (voice coms, zombie mode). What I'd like is a game that from beginning to end was developed for the Wii. Something with the feel of Timesplitters, Goldeneye or Perfect Dark. Metroid Prime 3 was an amazing game, but was it really an FPS? And of course, if it would have had online multiplayer, it would be a swift kick across genre borders against Master Cheifs scrotum. Emasher said: Is there any reason we can't support Nintendo. Most of us have had some great experiences this generation with Nintendo. Just because all the games don't specifically cater to your unique taste doesn't mean its not catering to anyone else. ALL of us have had some great experiences on the Wii. All the games don't have to cater to me. But there should be games that cater for all of us. Emasher said: But judging by the amount of money they're making, I'm pretty sure they're going to do something with it. My point exactly. And my suggestion is to use it to get a larger variety of games for their system. Emasher said: I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing them do that. But If I saw that game on a store shelf I probably wouldn't buy it as I'm not really that into generic racers, and a lot of other people I think will agree with this. A lot, but not everyone. I'm a gamer, and I'm really bumed out that I'll have to buy a second console to get all the gaming experiences I want. Especially since I bought the right console this time. The Wii will probably stand for a majority of my gaming this generation, but I still think that the Wii, with it's lower development costs, and much larger audience should have more and better games than the rest. And no, I'm not saying that the other formats have games for everyone. But they're striving towards it, and so should Nintendo.
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