DCK Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Do we have any proof that Wiimote was really a GC expansion? I mean, sure they plan that kind of stuff all the time, everything's meant to go everythere, but I doubt it was actually going to be like that.No official confirmation by Nintendo, but I think there were several quotes by Nintendo saying they "wanted to expand the possibilities of the GameCube" before discussing a new console. And it's not that simple, you don't just overclock a GC and suddenly poof it fits on a small, quiet package that doesn't overheat or spend lots or power. Not saying they spent a lot or did technological wonders on it, but it does take all kinds of research.Well, the GameCube already ran quite cool and was pretty power-friendly, so their base system was pretty good already. Then they just decreased the system's manufacturing process (which makes it cheaper to produce and reduces power use and heat dissappation), tweak a bit here and there, and there you have Wii.It didn't come free, but it certainly doesn't explain the hundreds of millions of investment. I don't doubt that most their R&D went into the controller: what it is, what it could've been and what will be. It makes perfect sense, they had to invest in various companies, gyroscopes technology present in motion+ only now became financially viable, lots of tests had to made, a lot of prototypes, it's really complex.I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't understand what you mean by not making sense for the R&D to go to the controller. The controller is actually just a Bluetooth gyro mouse, with an additional optical sensor. It's something that cost them money, but it's more a genius' invention than a millionaire's invention. The Wii is something that seems to have come from good ideas and creativity rather than deep pockets, like the 360 and PS3. My reason that I think the N5 was in development were these leaked specs: GameCube Next Now, a bit of clarification is necessary here. We have two sets of specs to talk about. Supposedly Nintendo has two sets of benchmark specifications they're working with, and one will be chosen when they are closer to actual development. We'll talk about both in the analysis. System 1: * 2.7 Ghz PowerPC G5 Processor * 512 Megs total Ram (128 for video, 64 for sound) * 600 Mhz graphics chip System 2: * Dual 1.8 Ghz IBM G5 PowerPC processors * 256 Megs DDR Main memory (64 dedicated to sound, using a 7.1 sound system at 196 Khz) * 128 Megs GDDR3 Video memory * 500 Mhz graphics chip (ATI developed, 16 Pixel Pipe, 220 Million transistors) Shared Information: * Built in 15 Gigabyte harddrive * Blue-laser disk technology * Potential DVD playback * Case design philosophy more like the N64, less like the GameCube They may seem random numbers, but these specs describe G5s used in iMacs not announced at the time, and the GPU perfectly fits the then unannounced Radeon X800XT and X800Pro. I think these systems were considered by Nintendo at the very least.
McPhee Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 And it's not that simple, you don't just overclock a GC and suddenly poof it fits on a small, quiet package that doesn't overheat or spend lots or power All they need to do to achieve that is ask the CPU and GPU manufacturers to remake the GC hardware using modern manufacturing processes. A die shrink and a few other minor customisations later and we have a smaller and cooler version of the GC. It's a standard request, nothing special at all. It happens all the time in the computer world.
Hellfire Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Don't remember saying it was anything special :P DCK the Wii controller doesn't even has gyros it has accelerometers not to forget it's coupled IR. R&D doesn't have have to mean new revolutionary hardware, lots of things have to be explored, knowing how to apply it, when to apply it, this costs a lot of money, even if they didn't invent the technology. About specs I'm sure Nintendo considered all kinds of specs.
Emasher Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Though, remember, they did want to put in gyros in the beginning, I'm sure it took R&D quite a bit of time to decide it was only feasible to use an accelerometer and add in gyros latter on.
Hellfire Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Though, remember, they did want to put in gyros in the beginning, I'm sure it took R&D quite a bit of time to decide it was only feasible to use an accelerometer and add in gyros latter on. Yeah they invested a lot of money in gyro companies, according to the company that makes motion+ tech, those components and implementation only became accessible now, it's drastically cheaper than it was. "Press ReleaseJune 26, 2007 InvenSense’s Patented MEMS Fabrication Process Meets High Volume and Low-Cost Consumer Market Requirements New Fabrication Technology Brings Next Generation MEMS Gyroscopes and Inertial Sensors to Market with Greater than 10X Reduction in Cost" "INVENSENSE™ IDG-600 MOTION SENSING SOLUTION SHOWCASED IN NINTENDO'S NEW Wii MotionPlus ACCESSORY InvenSense has introduced an entirely new class of high performance silicon-based MEMS rate gyroscopes that offers smaller package sizes, lower power consumption, and lower price points suitable for consumer markets."
DCK Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Should be good for Wii2. Hopefully Nintendo can continue to license the technology exclusively.
Hellfire Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 They did patent some holographic memory stuff, of course that won't be for soon and they're patenting and researching things all the time, but it's still interesting :P
Blue_Ninja0 Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Guys guys! I know it's not worth much anyway and it's old news but: http://www.gamersmark.com/news/2006/05/1/7878 May 11th, 2006 (2:37pm) - During a Q&A session yesterday at E3, Nintendo’s Shigeru Miyamoto spoke on HD technology in defense of not supporting the tech in the Wii. However, Mr. Miyamoto did add that Nintendo’s Wii-successor would be support the HD format. I didn't read the rest of the thread mind you, but to any nay-sayer I think it's more than obvious than any console released from now will be HD. 720p or 1080p I don't know. But I'm betting it will be 1080p.
Emasher Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 The HD format would probably refer to 1080p. I could be wrong though.
gothic_hobbit Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 My money is on it being 720p. In fact I just found out recently that some Xbox 1 games can do 720p. So for the Wii not to have had 720p as standard for certain key titles is a bit embarrassing and inexcusable imho. If the original Xbox can manage why not the Wii ?
Emasher Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Yes, but the Wii HD will be much more powerful. It will easily be able to do 1080p and still have "HD" graphics.
DCK Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Wii can't handle it because the GPU isn't quite as flexible (the Xbox used a PC GeForce 3 meant to be able to do different resolutions). One Xbox game even did 1080i I think. It's much too heavy on the rescources to reasonably do HD on last generation hardware though. As Emasher said, Wii2 will probably be Full HD. Full HD TVs are as cheap as HD Ready TVs two years ago already, Nintendo can't ignore that.
darksnowman Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Outta curiosity, any ideas what Xbox game that was, DCK?
DCK Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Outta curiosity, any ideas what Xbox game that was, DCK?I can't remember. I know that the title I'm thinking of is some "I'm-a-knight-gotta-save-the-princess" game in a castle. It was cel-shaded too. Might be Dragon's Lair 3D, but I doubt a 2002 title would've done HD.
Will Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 There's a good few Xbox titles that supported 1080i. Off the top of my head I can't remember exactly how many but a quick google search should find them easily enough.
DCK Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Apparently: 720p games: Amped® 2 (Xbox Live™-enabled) Crash Nitro Kart™ Delta Force®—Black Hawk Down™ (Xbox Live-enabled) ESPN Major League Baseball (Xbox Live-enabled) ESPN NBA Basketball 2005 (Xbox Live-enabled) Freedom Fighters™ MVP Baseball™ 2004 NBA® 2K3 (Xbox Live-enabled) NBA® Ballers™ Sega Sports™ World Series® Baseball 2K3 SoulCalibur® II Steel Battalion™—Line of Contact (Xbox Live-enabled) Street Hoops Terminator® 3: The Redemption The Sims™ Bustin’ Out Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 4 Tony Hawk’s Underground True Crime: Streets of L.A. 1080i games: Dragons Lair 3D: Return to the Lair Enter the Matrix™ MX Unleashed™ Syberia Surprised to see so many multiplatform 720p titles.
darksnowman Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 I don't remember the fact that some Xbox games were in 720p and 1080i being flaunted about...? Considering the way the 360 has been championing HD, I would have thought they would have done something similar with the first Xbox wherever possible. I take it those multiformat games weren't 720p on the Cube?
DCK Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 They most certainly weren't. Cube was limited to 480i in Europe even. It's quite bizarre the Xbox would've pulled this off... It's more than twice the amount of pixels. Maybe they halved the framerate in each game or something. Dragon's Lair and Enter The Matrix apparently look horrible.
darkjak Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 They most certainly weren't. Cube was limited to 480i in Europe even. It's quite bizarre the Xbox would've pulled this off... It's more than twice the amount of pixels. Maybe they halved the framerate in each game or something. Dragon's Lair and Enter The Matrix apparently look horrible. The box was a fair bit more powerful than the other formats. If I recall correctly, the XB was twice as powerful as the PS2, which should mean that certain PS2/low budget games had so low polycounts and textures that the XB could handle it.
Dante Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 here is a very good topic on the developed history of nintendo consoles: Dolphin was to have: 202 MHz GPU, upto 64MB RAM (32MB minimum), 20-30M fully featured polygons/s, built in modem with internet access and some online network (i.e. 'Star Road') GameCube had: 162 MHz GPU, only 24 MB main fast RAM, around 12-15M fully featured polygons/s, no standard modem, no online network. Wii has: 243 MHz GPU, 88 MB RAM, roughly somewhere around 20M+ fully featured polygons/s (50% more than GameCube) built in WiFi, internet access + some online capabilities. (Wii Connect 24) I think it would be good read to know what nintendo plans would be for the next console.
DCK Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 It wasn't in fact any more powerful than the Cube on 480p for sure. But your theory is probably right. In fact, all of those games appeared on PS2. None except SC2 are very good games either.
Hellfire Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 The box was a fair bit more powerful than the other formats. If I recall correctly, the XB was twice as powerful as the PS2, which should mean that certain PS2/low budget games had so low polycounts and textures that the XB could handle it. GT4 supports 1080i too, there could be more PS2 games that do that. You don't need to reach a certain number in certain specs to output "HD", Blue Dragon for the 360 supports 1080p for example, so it's not like 360 can't handle higher than 720p (not like that's being discussed). I'd have to say Xbox's DirectX based API and the fact that it was largely a PC with lots of RAM made it easier to output such resolutions, while the GC couldn't do it, because of the frambuffer.
D_prOdigy Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Weren't there rumours a while back that someone (could have been Factor 5) managed to get Wii outputting 720p? From what I remember though, whatever they got to run at that resolution ran horribly.
DCK Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 GT4 didn't do proper 1080i, the PS2 didn't have close to the amount of power for that. Apparently they composed the picture out of a normal 480i/p picture (not upscaling per se). The Xbox games are all 'true' HD games. @ D_prodigy: It's not surprising, the Wii and GameCube hardware setups simply weren't designed to do that. The actual framebuffer simply doesn't allow anything above 480p to be rendered on it, there's not enough space.
darksnowman Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 GT4 supports 1080i too, there could be more PS2 games that do that. You don't need to reach a certain number in certain specs to output "HD", Blue Dragon for the 360 supports 1080p for example, so it's not like 360 can't handle higher than 720p (not like that's being discussed).I'd have to say Xbox's DirectX based API and the fact that it was largely a PC with lots of RAM made it easier to output such resolutions, while the GC couldn't do it, because of the frambuffer. I'm gonna have to chip in with another noobish comment, but isn't it a given that the 360 can pump out games in 1080p? It comes as no surprise to me anyway.
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