Why Zelda Wii will probably be the best game ever.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Yeah cos I'm really bitching about it! Fucks sake!

Yes you were "really" bitching about it. The castle being near Lake Hylia is a sensitive issue. Regardless of the fact that it appears to be situated under a shitload of water in an apprarent bubble which means Link can fap about [with added glitches it seems]

[Emasher]

Actually, I think SMG has a lot of levels. I haven't played SM64 in years (I still have it for the N64 in a drawer ) but I think SMG might be the 3D Mario game with more "paths". And with that I mean that each star in the same level has a very different path to it than the others.

 

For example, whilst in SM64 in Tall Tall Mountain you basically just scaled the fucking moutain 7 times (one for each star) with very little variation in paths, in SMG you have completely different paths for different stars in the same level. Plus you have a lot more secret or stand alone levels like the Cookie Galaxy, Bonefin Galaxy, etc, etc. SMG has a lot of levels and a lot of variation. They should just have changed the hub which was, IMO, boring.

 

 

 

 

As for your suggestion of a Metroid style structure, I've thought about it too, and I think I've said it here also a few months ago. It would be cool. For me, anything that would be different from a lame hub would be nice for a change in the next Mario game(s).

 

 

 

But compare that to the number of levels in the 2D games. There were quite a bit more if I remember correctly.

 

Well after having fought to save Hyrule in OOT, and seeing as WW follows on from OOT...

Once you get down to the flooded Hyrule in WW it would have been nice to actually see a place and field I recognised, the Hyrule I had fought to protect, frozen in time.

Instead I looked out on a place I didn't recognise and just thought WTF this isn't Hyrule!

 

 

I didn't realize it was possible to get off the given path in that area. I'll have to give it a try.

[...]

Mario levelling up and finding new abilities to use later on?

 

Awesome as that sounds. I doubt they'll make a future game with that.

 

I was reffering to Emasher's suggestion:

Perhaps what they could do is instead of having levels, do something like Metroid Prime where there's an open world and you need to travel around in it exploring.

 

No levelling up, no need to change Mario that much, it's not an RPG. Mario should always be a platformer, I just think they could do away with the hub idea, it's been done to death now.

[RPGfan]

Tapedeck wrote:

 

Isn't a link to the past just after the flood? It's all wrong I tell yaz!

 

Oh, sod it, the timeline doesn't even exist. Shigsy made it up. They make games 1 at a time and they barely ever continue from the last one. Hence Mario 1-2-3-world/yoshis island 1/2/story all being completely, utterly bloody different.

__________________

 

And that is why the new Zelda Wii will likely be just as different. They like to bring out something new and exciting each time. And just like any inventor, they can´t get it right every time. But I think Nintendo has stretched the whole innovation-scheme too far concerning games.

 

I must confess that I would love a return to the OOT Hyrule with larger worlds, updated graphics. When I played TLP, inside some areas there were great elements from the OOT world expertly (re-)made. But the rest of the experience was ruined by a surrounding countryside which had close to no more than a lot of neat 3D structures and distant scenery coupled with too many samey enemies wandering around aimlessly like braindead berks making it all even more dissapointing and not replayable. And don´t get me started on the mockery in the totally out of place and haunting Malon´s song from Lon Lon ranch to the backdrop of an awefully dark and scarily barren Hyrule field that sort of ripped out the heart of the cherished nostalgia I had from my times with OOT in that area of that game. It all felt incredibly rushed.

 

I think that Nintendo should look back at what made OOT so loved by people, and work with that in mind at creating the next Zelda. They should be careful about innovating all of the time, because there is a lot of gamers who want a return to more of the same. And I don´t think I am completely wrng if I say we gamers can get awefully pissed at them if they don´t pay attention to what WE want as opposed to what they want.

 

We are the paying customers, and if a game has sold damn well it means people loved it so why not make more of the same? Are they in business to make money off of their own creative aspirations or to serve their customers wants? Where is the good old developer desire to make great games for their fans.....in making games that constantly change the rules of engagement in either graphics, setting or story? If I get a great dish served at a restaurant, I would like more of it - wouldn´t I?

 

I don´t want to see the chefs suddenly changing the menu because they want to "innovate"? Any vendor in the world should have an ear to the customer base and measure the reactions to a product. And keep serving what people want. With slight, not exaggerated (WW), modifications over time. Or arrogant reactions to rightfull complaints. Wasn´t Iwata using the metaphor of "cooking great meals" (and how he liked to prepare those specially to his customers delight), when he was touching on the subject of being the head of NCL at E3 2006? Where is the "delight" in waiting since 1998for an overhyped would-be OOT actual remake (not alike the unnecessary upgrade that was Master Quest), and winding up with a huge dissapointment? Surely Nintendo should know better?

 

In the latest issue of EDGE Magazine there is a special article that deals with Nintendo´s reputed departure from the old way of catering mostly to the core gamers over to having taken a double path now catering to both the core, and expanded audience of gamers. Having turned around the very formula of success by shifting it´s very focus on the games alltogether.

 

They now get away with making games being far simpler, far easier to make that with the right brandnames tucked on to them sell in greater numbers than at any time previously (having fully utilized the Blue Ocean strategy to the terror of their dumbfounded competitors stuck in the Red Ocean still) even to the extent of some saying the Wii is flooded with shovelware and whereas the good-old awesome undertakings like OOT and SM64 are fewer and further inbetween. I don´t know if this means a lesser Nintendo in the future, but they should keep that ear to the fan community instead of "upturning the teatable" at the apparent whim of the man who created the foundation of its so far formidable worldwide succeses. Otherwise Sony´s prediction that the Wii will wear of as a gimmick could come through one day. I have this feeling that the core fanbase will eventually tire of Nintendo if all that´s mostly found on it, is simple and in the end inadequate games.

 

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Nintendo once again sits at the top of power right now. Just like it wanted. It has been indeed - the return of the King! I for one do hope that Miyamoto will remain the same great little meek man he became famous through being; loyal to his customers and all and not become blind to the needs of his fans and sighted to only his own ambitions as a chief game designer. For so it seems these days. And since there are many competitors vying for domination he and Iwata should be carefull what direction they take their games in. EDGE Magazine outright calls it dangerous for them to further embark on the innovation course. Fortunes can change swiftly, with Fable 2 and many other great games right around the corner. And then - I don´t think the DS will be enough to save them! Keeping my fingers crossed for Nintendo. For they are right where I want them, but I also want the games that made me love them! Am I alone is this desire?

[Emasher]

I was reffering to Emasher's suggestion:

 

 

No levelling up, no need to change Mario that much, it's not an RPG. Mario should always be a platformer, I just think they could do away with the hub idea, it's been done to death now.

 

I didn't really mean character upgrades, well maybe health upgrades, but other than that I more meant finding starts like you would find the pickups in metroid.

[...]

I didn't really mean character upgrades, well maybe health upgrades, but other than that I more meant finding starts like you would find the pickups in metroid.

 

I know, I was just clarifying the other dude. :awesome:

[Oxigen_Waste]

My friend has a N64 and a Gamecube, we had a Zelda mahraton (we love Zelda)

I played all the 3D games, and to me, no one compared to the first one i played, TP.

 

Honestly, think about it in perspective... I mean, TP is my favourite Zelda, either that or Link To The Past, and I never really completed OOT, I played like 10 hours and (honestly) I just got bored and tired of it. But that's just me, if I look at it from an impartial stand, taking into account when it was made... it's just... well, perfect, literally... we're just a little too late to the party, Maase. Unfortunately.

 

Seriously, there must be something wrong with me... I can play any game from the Nes/Snes era, but I can't bring myself to play the games from the PS1/N64 era, it's not that I don't like them or anything, I just always loose interest halfway through... SM64, OOT, FFVII, Vagrant Story, MGS (thank god for Twin Snakes)... I started them all and kept on playing them all for a while (except FFVII, of which I played like 10 hours and gave it because it's a shit game, no offense) and always stopped cos I lost interest... SM64 I've got 80 stars, I've played till the fifth dungeon of OOT, 15 hours of Vagrant Story... and so on... I just can't play them, don't really know why...

[Emasher]

Honestly, think about it in perspective... I mean, TP is my favourite Zelda, either that or Link To The Past, and I never really completed OOT, I played like 10 hours and (honestly) I just got bored and tired of it. But that's just me, if I look at it from an impartial stand, taking into account when it was made... it's just... well, perfect, literally... we're just a little too late to the party, Maase. Unfortunately.

 

Seriously, there must be something wrong with me... I can play any game from the Nes/Snes era, but I can't bring myself to play the games from the PS1/N64 era, it's not that I don't like them or anything, I just always loose interest halfway through... SM64, OOT, FFVII, Vagrant Story, MGS (thank god for Twin Snakes)... I started them all and kept on playing them all for a while (except FFVII, of which I played like 10 hours and gave it because it's a shit game, no offense) and always stopped cos I lost interest... SM64 I've got 80 stars, I've played till the fifth dungeon of OOT, 15 hours of Vagrant Story... and so on... I just can't play them, don't really know why...

 

I imagine the reason you can play NES/SNES games but not N64/PS1 games could be the fact that NES and SNES games were some of the latter and because of that better 2D games. N64 and PS1 games were some of the first 3D games and so obviously the developers were still figuring it out. We've now seen much more advanced 3D games, but in the case of 2D games, NES and SNES games are still pretty much the best. On consoles at least.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Tapedeck wrote:

 

__________________

 

And that is why the new Zelda Wii will likely be just as different. They like to bring out something new and exciting each time. And just like any inventor, they can´t get it right every time. But I think Nintendo has stretched the whole innovation-scheme too far concerning games.

 

I must confess that I would love a return to the OOT Hyrule with larger worlds, updated graphics. When I played TLP, inside some areas there were great elements from the OOT world expertly (re-)made. But the rest of the experience was ruined by a surrounding countryside which had close to no more than a lot of neat 3D structures and distant scenery coupled with too many samey enemies wandering around aimlessly like braindead berks making it all even more dissapointing and not replayable. And don´t get me started on the mockery in the totally out of place and haunting Malon´s song from Lon Lon ranch to the backdrop of an awefully dark and scarily barren Hyrule field that sort of ripped out the heart of the cherished nostalgia I had from my times with OOT in that area of that game. It all felt incredibly rushed.

 

I think that Nintendo should look back at what made OOT so loved by people, and work with that in mind at creating the next Zelda. They should be careful about innovating all of the time, because there is a lot of gamers who want a return to more of the same. And I don´t think I am completely wrng if I say we gamers can get awefully pissed at them if they don´t pay attention to what WE want as opposed to what they want.

 

We are the paying customers, and if a game has sold damn well it means people loved it so why not make more of the same? Are they in business to make money off of their own creative aspirations or to serve their customers wants? Where is the good old developer desire to make great games for their fans.....in making games that constantly change the rules of engagement in either graphics, setting or story? If I get a great dish served at a restaurant, I would like more of it - wouldn´t I?

 

I don´t want to see the chefs suddenly changing the menu because they want to "innovate"? Any vendor in the world should have an ear to the customer base and measure the reactions to a product. And keep serving what people want. With slight, not exaggerated (WW), modifications over time. Or arrogant reactions to rightfull complaints. Wasn´t Iwata using the metaphor of "cooking great meals" (and how he liked to prepare those specially to his customers delight), when he was touching on the subject of being the head of NCL at E3 2006? Where is the "delight" in waiting since 1998for an overhyped would-be OOT actual remake (not alike the unnecessary upgrade that was Master Quest), and winding up with a huge dissapointment? Surely Nintendo should know better?

 

In the latest issue of EDGE Magazine there is a special article that deals with Nintendo´s reputed departure from the old way of catering mostly to the core gamers over to having taken a double path now catering to both the core, and expanded audience of gamers. Having turned around the very formula of success by shifting it´s very focus on the games alltogether.

 

They now get away with making games being far simpler, far easier to make that with the right brandnames tucked on to them sell in greater numbers than at any time previously (having fully utilized the Blue Ocean strategy to the terror of their dumbfounded competitors stuck in the Red Ocean still) even to the extent of some saying the Wii is flooded with shovelware and whereas the good-old awesome undertakings like OOT and SM64 are fewer and further inbetween. I don´t know if this means a lesser Nintendo in the future, but they should keep that ear to the fan community instead of "upturning the teatable" at the apparent whim of the man who created the foundation of its so far formidable worldwide succeses. Otherwise Sony´s prediction that the Wii will wear of as a gimmick could come through one day. I have this feeling that the core fanbase will eventually tire of Nintendo if all that´s mostly found on it, is simple and in the end inadequate games.

 

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Nintendo once again sits at the top of power right now. Just like it wanted. It has been indeed - the return of the King! I for one do hope that Miyamoto will remain the same great little meek man he became famous through being; loyal to his customers and all and not become blind to the needs of his fans and sighted to only his own ambitions as a chief game designer. For so it seems these days. And since there are many competitors vying for domination he and Iwata should be carefull what direction they take their games in. EDGE Magazine outright calls it dangerous for them to further embark on the innovation course. Fortunes can change swiftly, with Fable 2 and many other great games right around the corner. And then - I don´t think the DS will be enough to save them! Keeping my fingers crossed for Nintendo. For they are right where I want them, but I also want the games that made me love them! Am I alone is this desire?

 

Post of the month.

[...]

 

 

I think that Nintendo should look back at what made OOT so loved by people, and work with that in mind at creating the next Zelda.

 

We are the paying customers, and if a game has sold damn well it means people loved it so why not make more of the same?

 

Because it's not that easy? No artist can replicate past works. Look at bands from the 70's or 80's that are still going, they can't make music today like they used to. Filmmakers from the 70's/80's can't make movies today like they used to either. Because every work of art that marks its time isn't just the sum of its parts, it cannot be replicated by applying a formula. That's why many sequels of 20 year + old movies most often don't work, because that little something can't be fabricated, it just happened to work at the time by some kind of magic.

 

What Nintendo must do is exactly the opposite of what you suggest. They mustn't try to cater to fans, they have to do their own thing.

[Edjamakated]

Tapedeck wrote:

 

__________________

 

And that is why the new Zelda Wii will likely be just as different. They like to bring out something new and exciting each time. And just like any inventor, they can´t get it right every time. But I think Nintendo has stretched the whole innovation-scheme too far concerning games.

 

I must confess that I would love a return to the OOT Hyrule with larger worlds, updated graphics. When I played TLP, inside some areas there were great elements from the OOT world expertly (re-)made. But the rest of the experience was ruined by a surrounding countryside which had close to no more than a lot of neat 3D structures and distant scenery coupled with too many samey enemies wandering around aimlessly like braindead berks making it all even more dissapointing and not replayable. And don´t get me started on the mockery in the totally out of place and haunting Malon´s song from Lon Lon ranch to the backdrop of an awefully dark and scarily barren Hyrule field that sort of ripped out the heart of the cherished nostalgia I had from my times with OOT in that area of that game. It all felt incredibly rushed.

 

I think that Nintendo should look back at what made OOT so loved by people, and work with that in mind at creating the next Zelda. They should be careful about innovating all of the time, because there is a lot of gamers who want a return to more of the same. And I don´t think I am completely wrng if I say we gamers can get awefully pissed at them if they don´t pay attention to what WE want as opposed to what they want.

 

We are the paying customers, and if a game has sold damn well it means people loved it so why not make more of the same? Are they in business to make money off of their own creative aspirations or to serve their customers wants? Where is the good old developer desire to make great games for their fans.....in making games that constantly change the rules of engagement in either graphics, setting or story? If I get a great dish served at a restaurant, I would like more of it - wouldn´t I?

 

I don´t want to see the chefs suddenly changing the menu because they want to "innovate"? Any vendor in the world should have an ear to the customer base and measure the reactions to a product. And keep serving what people want. With slight, not exaggerated (WW), modifications over time. Or arrogant reactions to rightfull complaints. Wasn´t Iwata using the metaphor of "cooking great meals" (and how he liked to prepare those specially to his customers delight), when he was touching on the subject of being the head of NCL at E3 2006? Where is the "delight" in waiting since 1998for an overhyped would-be OOT actual remake (not alike the unnecessary upgrade that was Master Quest), and winding up with a huge dissapointment? Surely Nintendo should know better?

 

In the latest issue of EDGE Magazine there is a special article that deals with Nintendo´s reputed departure from the old way of catering mostly to the core gamers over to having taken a double path now catering to both the core, and expanded audience of gamers. Having turned around the very formula of success by shifting it´s very focus on the games alltogether.

 

They now get away with making games being far simpler, far easier to make that with the right brandnames tucked on to them sell in greater numbers than at any time previously (having fully utilized the Blue Ocean strategy to the terror of their dumbfounded competitors stuck in the Red Ocean still) even to the extent of some saying the Wii is flooded with shovelware and whereas the good-old awesome undertakings like OOT and SM64 are fewer and further inbetween. I don´t know if this means a lesser Nintendo in the future, but they should keep that ear to the fan community instead of "upturning the teatable" at the apparent whim of the man who created the foundation of its so far formidable worldwide succeses. Otherwise Sony´s prediction that the Wii will wear of as a gimmick could come through one day. I have this feeling that the core fanbase will eventually tire of Nintendo if all that´s mostly found on it, is simple and in the end inadequate games.

 

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Nintendo once again sits at the top of power right now. Just like it wanted. It has been indeed - the return of the King! I for one do hope that Miyamoto will remain the same great little meek man he became famous through being; loyal to his customers and all and not become blind to the needs of his fans and sighted to only his own ambitions as a chief game designer. For so it seems these days. And since there are many competitors vying for domination he and Iwata should be carefull what direction they take their games in. EDGE Magazine outright calls it dangerous for them to further embark on the innovation course. Fortunes can change swiftly, with Fable 2 and many other great games right around the corner. And then - I don´t think the DS will be enough to save them! Keeping my fingers crossed for Nintendo. For they are right where I want them, but I also want the games that made me love them! Am I alone is this desire?

 

I'm sorry, but as much as I love the classics, I've grown to love more Nintendo's ability constantly surprise me with better and better games. Look at the evolution of any Nintendo series that began on the NES and you'll see what I mean.

[Rummy]

Rummy, answering to your question, its simple:

Better graphics, great sound (well, that's like the others xD), great story, and better dungeons, the items are better too (excepting, maybe the Masks)

 

Its pretty much to me the best Zelda Game ever, and it was the first i played.

 

I can guarantee to you, that no matter how many times i'l try, i'l never be able to like some other Zelda game as much as i liked this one, simply because this was my first one, just like your case.

 

I see. That's fair and all, I'm not here to say I'm right and you're wrong, but I feel all the things you describe are generic to all 'good' games, for me what makes a Zelda game a Zelda game are the little things. Minigames, trading sequences, side quests, heart pieces. Side quests encompass the sometimes optional items(like item capacity upgrades), masks like in MM, skulltulas in MM and OoT(though i guess that's also item capacity upgrades), and one very important part of Zelda for me is NPCs and interaction. I think TP is a stellar game, but not a great Zelda due to its comparitive lack of all these elements. As I said however, my first Zelda(LttP) is not my favourite, though I'll admit I often change my mind, but I put OoT and MM above it usually, and would definitely have to put the Oracles above it(they're built very much upon its foundation though), but LttP is not better than OoT and MM, though I would say it was significant in the Zelda line.

 

In the latest issue of EDGE Magazine there is a special article that deals with Nintendo´s reputed departure from the old way of catering mostly to the core gamers over to having taken a double path now catering to both the core, and expanded audience of gamers. Having turned around the very formula of success by shifting it´s very focus on the games alltogether.

 

They now get away with making games being far simpler, far easier to make that with the right brandnames tucked on to them sell in greater numbers than at any time previously (having fully utilized the Blue Ocean strategy to the terror of their dumbfounded competitors stuck in the Red Ocean still) even to the extent of some saying the Wii is flooded with shovelware and whereas the good-old awesome undertakings like OOT and SM64 are fewer and further inbetween. I don´t know if this means a lesser Nintendo in the future, but they should keep that ear to the fan community instead of "upturning the teatable" at the apparent whim of the man who created the foundation of its so far formidable worldwide succeses. Otherwise Sony´s prediction that the Wii will wear of as a gimmick could come through one day. I have this feeling that the core fanbase will eventually tire of Nintendo if all that´s mostly found on it, is simple and in the end inadequate games.

 

This, I do agree with. Sunshine, but more so SMG, I felt were too linear and held my hand too much, and also did not pose the challenge that SM64 posed me(Srsly, I STILL struggle with some stars on that and end up fluking through, so it's not just a being a dumb retarded kid thing). Honestly, in SMG it TELLS you where to find a secret star after like 5 seconds, that's no challenge and no fun! TP was very one way too(i felt the items were limited in use as well, basically in the dungeon you get them then not much after), not enough to do outside of its line. Phantom Hourglass, to its credit, was very innovative and fun, but in terms of challenege it was definitely lacking, sometimes I want a game that'll push me! I feel alot of recent games have attempted to appeal to both markets at the same time, but it'll alienate the core cos they're too easy and simple, but if they were harder it'd alienate the casual market who aren't seasoned gamers like ourselves, used to the sorts of challenges a game would throw at you.

[darkjak]

Oh hell no. The Oracles were the shit! What about Phantom Hourglass? Haven't played it yet, but because it has toon Link it strikes me with the fear of a letdown.

 

Was it the DS game of the year? I don't think it is. Every stationary Zelda has to be voted best game EVER in Nintendo-mags, and Game of the Year in most multi platform magazines. If it's not, it's an epic failure.

Four Swords, Crossbow training, Minish Cap, Oracles, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are all bif failures. Zelda should be the Creme de la Creme of Nintendo games. The development time should be as long as it takes to acheive the result, and so shuould the budget be.

 

Zelda 1, A Link to the Past and Ocarina of time were all considered to be the best game ever when they were released, and Link's Awakening was considered the best portable game ever. Nintendo have damaged the Zelda reputation immencily since then, with cashcows and half-assed attempts. Nintendo should have made a second games series, rather than making Zeldas that dissapoint certain fans, and don't reach the level of quality that fans have gotten used to.

 

We're talking about probably the company with the best average in software sales, and the currently best earning console manufacturer. Zelda has allways been Nintendos flagship, so in other words, I'm expecting the next Zelda to be a technical marvel, with better controlls than any other game for any format. With higher immersion, better story, longer lifespan, more to do and as many gameplay innovations that Ocarina of Time had.

 

To be controversial, I think Nintendo should keep the artistic style of Twilight Princess, at least when it comes to characters. I don't want a new Celda.

[EEVILMURRAY]

To be controversial, I think Nintendo should keep the artistic style of Twilight Princess, at least when it comes to characters. I don't want a new Celda.

Word.

 

 

.

[Hellfire]

I remember "disliking" you eevil, because of your Celda arguments. lol, good times.

 

Won't go deep here, no point, but it's so hilarious how people can consider the Oracles, Phantom Hourglass, Minish Cap, TP and even FSA cashcows or half assed atempts. The only Zelda game that can be accused of being a cashcow is crossbow training. Bif failures. Dear Lord, do you even realise that if they are or not "considered" the best of their gen is a completely subjective and moot point?

 

What will happen? Hard to say, because Nintendo likes to risk and shock people, but in the eyes of the interwebz folks, they can never win. When MM was out it was clone, OoT rocked, WW out kiddy, shit and short, MM was a psychological masterpiece, TP was out, it's shit and shallow, WW was beautiful and awe inspiring. This cycle will continue and as people keep growing more and more cynical and thirsty of some good bashing it won't stop.

[EEVILMURRAY]

I remember "disliking" you eevil, because of your Celda arguments. lol, good times.

Then you realised I was oh so right and you loved me like you used to

[Hellfire]

Then you realised I was oh so right and you loved me like you used to

 

I love you, you got that right! :heart:

[darkjak]

I remember "disliking" you eevil, because of your Celda arguments. lol, good times.

 

Won't go deep here, no point, but it's so hilarious how people can consider the Oracles, Phantom Hourglass, Minish Cap, TP and even FSA cashcows or half assed atempts. The only Zelda game that can be accused of being a cashcow is crossbow training. Bif failures. Dear Lord, do you even realise that if they are or not "considered" the best of their gen is a completely subjective and moot point?

 

What will happen? Hard to say, because Nintendo likes to risk and shock people, but in the eyes of the interwebz folks, they can never win. When MM was out it was clone, OoT rocked, WW out kiddy, shit and short, MM was a psychological masterpiece, TP was out, it's shit and shallow, WW was beautiful and awe inspiring. This cycle will continue and as people keep growing more and more cynical and thirsty of some good bashing it won't stop.

 

I personally still think that OOT is a masterpiece, that Majora's Mask is frustrating and that Wind Waker is easy, and has a graphical style that alone should have made the game into a different franchise. Zelda games used to have long development cycles, and the franchise was never loaned to any outside studios. Now we're getting Zeldas too often, and the games don't have the polish they should. Look at OOT. Basically nothing from the first screens correspond to the final game, because the team remade everything time and time again, untill they could give us what several magazines considered the best game of all time.

 

Zelda games should be so damn great that noone can complain. Yet here we are, with a bunch of Zelda games that people are arguing about whether they're masterpieces, or if they as a matter of fact are half-assed.

 

I want the next Zelda to be more challenging, have "realistic" graphics, 1:1 sword controls (no TP-ish waggle please), and a more open overworld. Half the fun in OOT was to explore the, for the time enormous overworld, and listen to what all the inhabitants in the world had to say.

[Grazza]

We are the paying customers, and if a game has sold damn well it means people loved it so why not make more of the same?

 

That's a logical thing to say, but I still disagree. In my view, it's their job to keep the best aspects but improve in the areas they genuinely think they can. To me, they consistently improved the formula from LttP to WW. Twilight Princess even had a number of improvements to add to the overall formula.

 

EDGE Magazine outright calls it dangerous for them to further embark on the innovation course.

 

Good for EDGE. I'll have to read that.

 

I don´t know if this means a lesser Nintendo in the future, but they should keep that ear to the fan community instead of "upturning the teatable" at the apparent whim of the man who created the foundation of its so far formidable worldwide succeses.

 

Yes, I don't know why they boasted about Miyamoto upturning the teatable so much considering Twilight Princess wasn't so great. I honestly can't decide whether Eiji Aonuma would have made a better game if left to his own devices or Miyamoto genuinely improved what would have turned out to be an even more controversial game.

 

Fortunes can change swiftly, with Fable 2 and many other great games right around the corner.

 

Absolutely. They have stiff competition from Fable 2, the new Prince of Persia and the next Team ICO game, which all have the advantage of being on hardware that is one generation ahead.

 

And then - I don´t think the DS will be enough to save them!

 

To be fair, the DS and Wii will probably both remain popular for as long as each other. It's a different approach and might not actually go out of fashion. So, I would disagree that Nintendo themselves are in any danger, but it remains to be seen if the quality of their games is. They still make good games, but I haven't been bowled over by anything of their own on either DS or Wii.

 

...

 

There are a few other things I wanted to say about Zelda Wii...

 

Twilight Princess had fantastic graphics, but you were rarely close enough to the action to appreciate them. I initially thought they had downgraded the graphics, but on the odd occasion when the camera would get close enough, I realised how good the "Link" character model was (eg. in Agatha's house or climbing up from the basement of the circular house in Kakariko). The detail on the shield was great!

 

With this in mind, I wouldn't mind an over-the-shoulder view, as long as the shield was still fully visible. It could change to 1st-person for aiming as usual, and maybe even traditional 3rd-person when you're riding mounts etc.

 

Regarding voice acting, if they do it, I hope they leave the Japanese voices on there like Team ICO's games. I've seen so many games ruined by English-language voiceovers! The Japanese make the game, so they should set the tone.

 

Also, we need a massive/infinite wallet like Phantom Hourglass. No more putting rupees back!

[RPGfan]

Grazza wrote:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGfan

We are the paying customers, and if a game has sold damn well it means people loved it so why not make more of the same?

 

 

That's a logical thing to say, but I still disagree. In my view, it's their job to keep the best aspects but improve in the areas they genuinely think they can. To me, they consistently improved the formula from LttP to WW. Twilight Princess even had a number of improvements to add to the overall formula.

 

My comment: There may have been some improvements in TLP, but it didn´t make it a better game. So adding new things in a game doesn´t seem logical if it doesn´t improve the overall playing experience. If people tire of it too quickly, it´s a waste of innovation effort. What TLP lacked in was a technical premise for deeper and longer immersion into the gameworld. The new ideas introduced in the game seems to have been not been properly incorporated.

 

Quote:

EDGE Magazine outright calls it dangerous for them to further embark on the innovation course.

 

Good for EDGE. I'll have to read that.

 

My comment: Best EDGE in a long time.

 

Quote:

I don´t know if this means a lesser Nintendo in the future, but they should keep that ear to the fan community instead of "upturning the teatable" at the apparent whim of the man who created the foundation of its so far formidable worldwide succeses.

 

Yes, I don't know why they boasted about Miyamoto upturning the teatable so much considering Twilight Princess wasn't so great. I honestly can't decide whether Eiji Aonuma would have made a better game if left to his own devices or Miyamoto genuinely improved what would have turned out to be an even more controversial game.

 

My comment: I doubt Aonuma would have made a worse game. I even think that the day may come where Miyamoto leaves the reins to him and things get like they were in the old days. I think they are tired of Miyamoto ultimately deciding everything. He seems to be the one who pushes for the innovation all of the time.

 

Quote:

Fortunes can change swiftly, with Fable 2 and many other great games right around the corner.

 

Absolutely. They have stiff competition from Fable 2, the new Prince of Persia and the next Team ICO game, which all have the advantage of being on hardware that is one generation ahead.

 

My comment: Yes, Ninty has to watch out!

 

Quote:

And then - I don´t think the DS will be enough to save them!

 

To be fair, the DS and Wii will probably both remain popular for as long as each other. It's a different approach and might not actually go out of fashion. So, I would disagree that Nintendo themselves are in any danger, but it remains to be seen if the quality of their games is. They still make good games, but I haven't been bowled over by anything of their own on either DS or Wii.

...

 

My comment: I think that it is exactly the issue of the quaility of Nintendo´s games which will decide whether they are in any danger or not. Sometimes I get the feeling that Miyamoto has his hand into too many things and may periodically lose touch of the course of the other games he is - also - overseeing.

 

There are a few other things I wanted to say about Zelda Wii...

 

Twilight Princess had fantastic graphics, but you were rarely close enough to the action to appreciate them. I initially thought they had downgraded the graphics, but on the odd occasion when the camera would get close enough, I realised how good the "Link" character model was (eg. in Agatha's house or climbing up from the basement of the circular house in Kakariko). The detail on the shield was great!

 

With this in mind, I wouldn't mind an over-the-shoulder view, as long as the shield was still fully visible. It could change to 1st-person for aiming as usual, and maybe even traditional 3rd-person when you're riding mounts etc.

 

Regarding voice acting, if they do it, I hope they leave the Japanese voices on there like Team ICO's games. I've seen so many games ruined by English-language voiceovers! The Japanese make the game, so they should set the tone.

 

Also, we need a massive/infinite wallet like Phantom Hourglass. No more putting rupees back!

 

My comment: Immersion, immersion, immersion!!! Replayability, replayability, replayability!!!

[Sheikah]

My view? Let them put change in each game; it's not like it's the end of the world if the game isn't so great on occasion. Video games aren't the be all and end all. Majora's Mask felt very different to OoT in my opinion, mostly due to the dark aura the game gave out as well as the novel concept of time. So really, they made a fair jump from OoT to MM and produced a gem, instead of just a generic sequel. Change is needed for great things.

 

Wind Waker graphics aren't for everyone, yet I liked them. The point is, big changes make playing new games worthwhile. There's no point to playing such a similar seeming game with improved graphics (sheer graphics alone, not the visual style). To me, TP was like a modern OoT with the addition of transforming into a wolf. It didn't have enough change to excite me, or make me look back on it thinking 'what a game'. That, and there were some uninspired areas (namely Link's hometown and the boomerang dungeon).

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

When MM was out it was clone, OoT rocked, WW out kiddy, shit and short, MM was a psychological masterpiece, TP was out, it's shit and shallow, WW was beautiful and awe inspiring. This cycle will continue and as people keep growing more and more cynical and thirsty of some good bashing it won't stop.

 

You know, for the first time in N-Europe history, I agree with hellfire.

His right though. But I think that is human nature in general. Like the way your girlfriend leaves you and thought 'fine, get the F out then'...But then as time passes you begin to realise perhaps how precious that slut was and so you re-analyse and start to see the good things rather than pointing out the bad.

[EEVILMURRAY]

WW out kiddy, shit and short.

Beautiful speech. I applaud thee for your honesty.

[tapedeck]

I always thought that WW was THE opportunity for Nintendo to create a new franchise. Lots of people disagreed with me on this. Primarily because "they got their dose of Zelda" and "The GC needed a saviour".

 

Yet if WW was an altogether different character the game would have been given far less criticism and TP would have been truly seen as a continuation of the OoT model.

 

Oh, nice post from RPGfan.

[dazzybee]

Hellfire is right. Happens with consoles too. Every slagged off the N64 for being too expensive, shit cartridges and hardly any games - the PS1 is amazing!!! Cube came out, N64 was incredible, Cube is shit and looks like a fisher price toy; blah blah.

 

Conclusion? People are fucking morons!!!