Opinion on guns

[Jamba]

Guns were introduced into the US so that should the goverment become corrupt the people would be able to rise up and overthrow them.

 

Introduced into America? Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit weird. Guns have been in the States every since westerners landed there. They had them for a very long time before they even became their own country. Guns being in the hands of civilians is both a product of the 2nd amendment and of a history of American folk hunting and feeding themselves off the land. It's all based on keeping their hands on what is "rightfully theirs" and guns have always been seen as the ultimate way of declaring that to someone in that country.

 

But why are we talking about the US anyway? This is a European forum, lets talk about guns in Europe. Gun crime in the UK is out of control atm. There's so many guns floating around North London that it actually got me pretty worried at times. The Government are blatantly not taking enough precautions to stop them getting imported facilitating gang warfare. It sucks balls.

[Hellfire]

guns are awesome. I mean, C'MON!

 

Seriously if it wasn't guns, it would be swords, axes, lances and black magic. Humanity always made weapons, unfortunately they are for the most part horribly controlled and lead to unwanted side effects, but saying that guns shouldn't exist at all is just stupid.

[Emasher]

Guns should be outlawed for anyone who isn't a cop or a soldier or an armored car staff. If you want to hunt, just use a bow.

[Hellfire]

Bullets should be made in gold and cost a fortune, criminals wouldn't dodge or shoot them.

 

They would put them in their gums and call them teeth.

[The fish]

Guns should be outlawed for anyone who isn't a cop or a soldier or an armored car staff. If you want to hunt, just use a bow.

 

Armoured car staff?

 

Also, here, only special units and international terminal police are armed, and we get along fine. Oh, and the armed forces, too, obviously.

 

The common thing about all armed personal in the UK is that they are all highly trained, highly disciplined non-civilians. The case of the Stockwell underground shooting shows this all too well - the armed police carried out their jobs perfectly. They did their job exceptionally well.

 

Anyway, back on topic, the masses shouldn't have any form of violent weaponry.

 

Guns are tools for killing. If you say "But people would find other ways to kill people!"m, stfu. A knife-wielding person holding up a class is hardly going to do much damage/any at all, if played right, but a gun allows the person to walk in, killing anyone he/she wants at their own leisure.

 

Very true. Anyone here, with a bit of thought, could disarm someone with a knife if they were trying to kill someone. However, a gun gives you the advantage of being able to kill at a distance.

[Monopolyman]

Guns don't kill people, people do.

 

/thread

 

I know this is a very old and over-used argument, but it's very true. I never heard of a case where a gun just got up and shot someone, but I heard of many cases where people have used them, and may I add, they could just as well of done the job with several other weapons

 

I think it makes them feel safer or bigger.

 

Which is only slightly ironic, because guns have ended more good lives then they've saved.

 

I don't really see how you came to this conclusion. I mean, do you have statistic where a gun has saved a life, including everything from direct involvement, to the sheer fact of having the gun shit some people and scared

them off?

Anyone can pull a trigger. Stabbing someone is different.

 

Not quite. A stabbing, any stabbing, has a chance of being fatal fatal. Even a jerk stab. And as for the "anyone can pull a trigger" argument, I'd like to see you get a head shot from 50 yrds

 

I wonder why there's so many school killings in the US? - Guns.

 

Actually, it's because schools are easy targets for psychopaths, because there is no-one with a gun to shoot back.

 

I wonder why the murder rate is so high in the Us? - Guns.

 

That's very, very short sighted. murder rate is so high in the united states for many reasons, from prison gangs to back-lash effect of slavery

 

I wanted to slap the senator woman who legalised the carrying of arms on campus in some US state. You can tell in an arguement, it'll get heated, and someone'll dive into their bag, and the other person will grab their gun and shoot instinctively, without realising the now dead person wasn't even reaching for a gun.

 

correct me if I'm wrong, but in most states, you are allowed to carry a gun anyway, and it's up to the uni/college/whatever to ban guns on campus, and that worked well at V-tech (wait!).

 

 

 

Guns are tools for killing. If you say "But people would find other ways to kill people!"m, stfu. A knife-wielding person holding up a class is hardly going to do much damage/any at all, if played right, but a gun allows the person to walk in, killing anyone he/she wants at their own leisure.

 

Though you are right, your point is invalid. There is no culture in the world where there are absolutely no guns what-so-ever. Even in countries where guns are illegal, you should be able to arm yourself. So yes, the only way to hold up a room is with a gun, but if guns are illegal, then it doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

 

Gun crime in the UK is out of control atm. There's so many guns floating around North London that it actually got me pretty worried at times. The Government are blatantly not taking enough precautions to stop them getting imported facilitating gang warfare. It sucks balls.

 

well, to those who have read my post, it shouldn't be hard to guess where I stand on this argument, and I just want to say that I don't want to come off biased when I ask this question, but would you feel safer if, say, you had a gun yourself? By that, I mean legally, of course.

 

 

 

Seriously if it wasn't guns, it would be swords, axes, lances and black magic. Humanity always made weapons, unfortunately they are for the most part horribly controlled and lead to unwanted side effects, but saying that guns shouldn't exist at all is just stupid.

 

Precisely. Changing how a weapon is used is not going to stop people from using them.

[Jamba]

well, to those who have read my post, it shouldn't be hard to guess where I stand on this argument, and I just want to say that I don't want to come off biased when I ask this question, but would you feel safer if, say, you had a gun yourself? By that, I mean legally, of course.

 

No of course not. Actually having to have one would make me feel worse. It fucking stupid that a bunch of tossers collate their stupid little subculture and fight of petty crap that ends up gettin many many people hurt or killed. Escalation is no answer to that kind of thing, what you need to do is to stop the poor, aspirationless and uneducated from getting hold of the facility to end people's lives.

 

All a gun is to a gang member is a replacement for their cock, they just want to wave it around so every knows that they mean business. Sad pathetic fucking people.

[Monopolyman]

Obviously, I didn't mean it as a tool for revenge, but either for protection, or at least make the criminal think twice before holding up a civilian, who may or may not be armed.

 

Also, what about just keeping a gun in your house. That is, if your worried that someone might break in as well.

[Jamba]

You've gone through the the thread and picked on everyone's point but you've missed the one main thing that many people have been saying. Guns are too easily missused, intentionally or otherwise. The killing of a person with a firearm can be done in the heat of the moment and far too easily and it's entirely in the nature of a gun to require no effort at all and be a flinch-response weapon.

 

Almost every person who would get a gun in the scenario that you are suggesting wouldn't be trust worthy. You are putting the potential to kill in the hands of idiots, because people are stupid.

 

I don't want to own a gun, I don't want to have to. If I own a gun I am acknowledging the fact that I feel threatened and that I need to own a deadly weapon not for concept of using it but as a deterrant.

 

Deadly weapon? Deterrant? They don't go very well together those words. Unless you're using the absurd logic that runs the US military.

[Emasher]

Armoured car staff?

 

Also, here, only special units and international terminal police are armed, and we get along fine. Oh, and the armed forces, too, obviously.

 

The common thing about all armed personal in the UK is that they are all highly trained, highly disciplined non-civilians. The case of the Stockwell underground shooting shows this all too well - the armed police carried out their jobs perfectly. They did their job exceptionally well.

 

 

Have you actually never herd of armored cars?

[Monopolyman]

Woah. I was just asking a question. I definitely see your point, and many see it a different way, but to me, there is always going to be guns, gangs and violence. Having some protection just comes in handy.

 

I'm not too sure about this 'killing in the heat of the moment' argument, though. I believe they come under 'accidental killings', which accounts for 1% of all total deaths by firearms in the US. I'm not too sure on that exact figure, but it's less than accidental deaths of cars, swimming pools, horses and stuff like that.

[The fish]

Have you actually never herd of armored cars?

 

I have, but, minus the Popemobile, they haven't been used since, pre-WWII...

 

Why should they have guns in particular, and why single them out from the army?

 

Oh, and if you mean cash transit vans (although, mixing up a car and a van is an achievement at your age...), then, well, the folks who drive them in Blighty aren't armed, and they get along alright.

[Bren]

I have, but, minus the Popemobile, they haven't been used since, pre-WWII...

 

Pretty sure the person in power of most country's rides in one on visits? If not most, then UK and US leaders must go around in armored cars, itd be too risky not too.

 

Anyway, back on topic, the masses shouldn't have any form of violent weaponry.

 

Knifes, forks, baseball bats, cricket bats, sledgehammers, pitch fork, fire poker, 2x4, nails, hammers, screwdrivers, saws.

 

Your fucked if you think that

[Sanchez]

Well killing isn't their primary purpose.

[chairdriver]

Guns can kill at range.

 

 

You can defend yourself against someone with a knife. You can't really defend against someone with a sniper rifle.

[EEVILMURRAY]

I think guns are pr0. I want one to shoot people on the sly.

 

What we need is a Lawgiver.

[The fish]

Knifes, forks, baseball bats, cricket bats, sledgehammers, pitch fork, fire poker, 2x4, nails, hammers, screwdrivers, saws.

 

Your fucked if you think that

 

Yeah, because they all are designed to injure and kill...

[D_prOdigy]

Guns are a dirty business. People just aren't chivilrous with them. If I had my way, we'd all have swords. Seriously.

[The fish]

Guns are a dirty business. People just aren't chivilrous with them. If I had my way, we'd all have swords. Seriously.

 

My point still stands - giving untrained, undisciplined individuals access to something which is without doubt an offensive weapon is incomprehensibly stupid.

[MoogleViper]

Killing somebody with a gun is easy. You point and pull the trigger. It's like you are barely even killing somebody at all.

 

Killing somebody with a knife is personal. You have to get so close to them that you can smell their breath, count the hairs on their face, feel the warmth of their body.

 

Many people could easily kill with a gun. Few could do it with a knife.

 

Bullets should be made in gold and cost a fortune, criminals wouldn't dodge or shoot them.

 

You stole that off of some american comedian who I can't remember.

 

"Bullets should cost a $1000 each. That way if you are gonna kill somebody then you mean it."

 

Or something along those lines.

[The fish]

Many people could easily kill with a gun. Few could do it with a knife.

 

If someone hell-bent on killing me or someone else attacked, and I had a gun, then if no other solution were possible, I reckon I'd shoot them. However, if I had easy access to a knife instead, I probably would leave it and just try and tackle him manually.

 

However, if someone else has a knife, then it's a different story. Not to stab or slash them, but to use for blocking attacks - one of the best things to stop blades that isn't cumbersome is another blade...

[nightwolf]

I don't agree with them, but at the end of the day if they were made illegal in the us like here..

 

what exactly is stopping people getting ahold of them anyway, our country is a perfect example.

 

edit: May I just say that guns being called awesome is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, something that can kill somebody, in any shape or form is not awesome, it's like calling a murderer cool...

 

edit x 2: this does not include dexter, he is fictional :P

[MoogleViper]

If someone hell-bent on killing me or someone else attacked, and I had a gun, then if no other solution were possible, I reckon I'd shoot them. However, if I had easy access to a knife instead, I probably would leave it and just try and tackle him manually.

 

However, if someone else has a knife, then it's a different story. Not to stab or slash them, but to use for blocking attacks - one of the best things to stop blades that isn't cumbersome is another blade...

 

1) Exactly. Using a gun is too easy.

 

2) Not really. That might work for swords but only if you're trained (or he isn't). But a knife is small. It's hard to block it with another knife. You are best off using my arm. Some guy held a knife up to a mate of my dad's who was incredibly hard. The guy held a knife up to his face so my dad's mate just grabbed the blade as hard as he could. The guy tried pulling it out but it came out slowly. My dad's mate's hand was bleeding and blood was running down the knife onto the other guy's hand. All the while my dad's mate was just grinning at him. The guy got so scared that when he finally pulled the knife out he ran off.

[Triple_C]

Bullets should be made in gold and cost a fortune, criminals wouldn't dodge or shoot them.

 

Like that?

 

 

I doubt I could purposefully kill someone with a gun or knife.

 

I doubt most of us geeks could.

[nightwolf]

Like that?

 

 

I doubt I could purposefully kill someone with a gun or knife.

 

I doubt most of us geeks could.

 

I distinctly remember a thread where I think me and jordan agreed we'd try canniblism out of curiousity, this also applies to killing somebody.