McPhee Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 I'd like to see a world with Ganon in charge too, but with a twist. The story runs down the lines of a normal Zelda game all the way up to the Ganon fight, but Link, a teenage boy at this point, looses and is forced to flee. Years pass by and the people begin to forget that the Hero of Time ever existed. They begin to accept Ganon's rule. The game beings with Link's return. Whilst in exile he was shown prophecies which detail where, how and when to defeat Ganon. The games challenge is in bringing this about. It's one huge puzzle! You need to unite the people under one banner, and locate all the pieces of the triforce. But at the same time you need to make sure certain characters make it to the last battle. This might involve saving people from harm, breaking them out of jail, or even killing allies to save you're enemy. If you need a certain character in a certain town on a certain day then you can use yourself or others to lure them there by spreading rumour of your presence or getting yourself in trouble. You need to manipulate friend and foe alike to make sure the battle goes ahead as prophicised. To me this would be a truly different form of Zelda game. Having to do what is necessary to stop Ganon, whilst not getting caught and killed yourself. There are no safe areas, only disguises and friends to keep you hidden. Dungeons would still be around, just fewer in number and centring around specific objects like a piece of triforce. An expansive world, with many towns and cities and loads of countryside to roam upon Epona. City guards, country police and vast armies to combat or avoid as you see fit. You're own decisions, you're own journey and all filled with the implications of the actions you make! Seriously why do you guys want Zelda games that aren't like Zelda at all? That's what other titles exist for! Simple, Zelda in it's current form is a bit tired. If it carries on as it is then it won't be long before it's overshadowed, some franchises are coming pretty close! While other games evolve Zelda stays the same, it should be advancing in gameplay and scope but it isn't. Each incarnation is pretty much the same as the last, but with a lick of paint and a new story.
Hellfire Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 While other games evolve Zelda stays the same, it should be advancing in gameplay and scope but it isn't. Each incarnation is pretty much the same as the last, but with a lick of paint and a new story. I 100% disagree, but I cant be bothered to post the reasons :P Mainly that every Zelda feels different from each other, while most other gaming franchises are always the same. In a nutshell.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Simple, Zelda in it's current form is a bit tired. If it carries on as it is then it won't be long before it's overshadowed, some franchises are coming pretty close! While other games evolve Zelda stays the same, it should be advancing in gameplay and scope but it isn't. Each incarnation is pretty much the same as the last, but with a lick of paint and a new story. ... Exactly. Zelda is an adventure game and adventure games with any decent degree of story need a good level of scope - Ocarina of Time was leading in this department at a certain period in time and it was praised for it, so I don't see how it can't keep up with the competition today. Actually I fear for the series seeing how TP borrowed so much from other titles, namely Shadow of Collosus and Okami. Was Shadow of Collosus developed by Sony?!...If it was, you can see what Mcphee means when he says other franchises are catching up fast.
Dilli Gee Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 I 100% disagree, but I cant be bothered to post the reasons :P I think he's pretty much right. Aside from character/level/mission re-designs, it's pretty much the same game with each reincarnation. There are changes that make a new game feel "new" but it's nothing particularly substantial. Zelda 2008/2009/whatever should be substantially different - I like the idea of a 21st Century setting.
Hellfire Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Actually I fear for the series seeing how TP borrowed so much from other titles, namely Shadow of Collosus and Okami. Was Shadow of Collosus developed by Sony?!...If it was, you can see what Mcphee means when he says other franchises are catching up fast. Um Shadow of the Colossus? There's just one boss that slightly resembles fighting a colussus and that's about it. Also, the Wolf Link was in works before Okami was anounced. Not that I'm saying Okami stole the idea (it stole Zelda's gameplay though :P). It's just my personal opinion of course, but I don't want too many cities and NPC, just so this feel "epic" and more like an RPG. Almost all RPGs or adventure games with a lot of cities and NPCs hardly have any charm or recognisable characters. That's why I prefer Zelda to keep having just a few towns and NPCs and keep them charming, instead of making generic NPC #194378. Which was something Zelda 2 did and that part didn't feel like Zelda at all. Also don't see how TP doesn't have "scope", since it's the biggest Zelda ever. I just don't want an Oblivion with Link, Zelda and Ganon stuck in it, I want more Zelda games that keep evolving of course, while remaining true to their roots. I think he's pretty much right. This isn't about being right or wrong, it's just personal taste.
Meta_Omega Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Seriously why do you guys want Zelda games that aren't like Zelda at all? That's what other titles exist for! I agree with this guy by quoting his opinion and not giving anything of importance to the discussion.
Retro_Link Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Last time the topic came up I got flamed for saying what I am about to repeat. I don't want the next Zelda game until the next Nintendo home console, at least 6-7 years. Here's why: 1. Time. Self-explanatory really. 2. Make me want it. If I saw a trailer for the next Zelda tomorrow I wouldn't be excited. I just don't want a Zelda now. I couldn't have given a crap if another Skies of Arcadia came out a year after the original, but right now I would kill for it. I want to want it. 3. It doesn't fit with the Wii. Many will disagree but I just don't think Zelda is right for the Wii. It's a staple of classic gaming, and the Wii is the opposite. Bringing it out on the Wii will mean it will have to conform in some way to the Wii vision, which I don't want. I want the game to change (how i'll explain below) but not in the in the Wii way. Not that I don't cream myself over the Wii way, it's just not for Zelda. 4. Wii and the hard drive. The Zelda I vision needs a harddrive. The world lives, it changes, and for that we need downloadable content. I'll cover this in more detail later. Years back I went through my Zelda idea (everyone has one) and I haven't got the hours to explain what it would be here. But it needs to change. Not because I think the formula has gotten tired, I loved TP. But I don't think Nintendo should wait until it happens. Half of the reason Prime was so brilliant was because people didn't want the change...until they played it. I think it needs to go back to pure adventure. Drop the sidekick telling you what to do. The closest you should get to companionship is the horse. 80% of the game should be optional. You head to a town to further the story, get lost, find yourself in rolling hills of orange groves and stumble upon a town being attacked by bandits. That's adventure. Make maps a pain in the ass to get. Make the world so big, so open, that you'll end up having to ask the first guy you see how to get to X place. Dungeons should still be there. But give them reason, and give them authenticity. Make the puzzles hard, bring in the Zak and Wiki team if you have to. Don't make it just 'use the item you've just found'. Make it hard, make us think. Create community. Create a world. I'm rambling now, but yeah, take a break Zelda I very much agree! [and yes a hard-drive would be necessary for how I envisage the next Zelda!] I don't feel that Zelda needs to change as such, but it needs to feel like a real adventure and offer a real challenge, in an ever changing living expansive world. I want a proper quest, full of exploration. Make a percentage of the game optional/hidden, so that you have those truely WOW moments when you discover something completly off the beaten track, be it a sidequest, village, item or just a view. Maybe even hook the game up to the weather channel or give us seasonal change; land and villages that get covered in snow 6 months after you've finished the game, opening up new areas to explore etc...
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 I very much agree! [and yes a hard-drive would be necessary for how I envisage the next Zelda!] I don't feel that Zelda needs to change as such, but it needs to feel like a real adventure and offer a real challenge, in an ever changing living expansive world. I want a proper quest, full of exploration. Make a percentage of the game optional/hidden, so that you have those truely WOW moments when you discover something completly off the beaten track, be it a sidequest, village, item or just a view. Maybe even hook the game up to the weather channel or give us seasonal change; land and villages that get covered in snow 6 months after you've finished the game, opening up new areas to explore etc... ... Let it be so O Lord.
Pit-Jr Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 I had a cool concept brewing. A larger evil is consuming the planet and the 3 triforce holders have to swallow their pride and work together to defeat it. Meaning Link, Zelda, and Ganon are fully playable in their own seperate chapters in the first half of the game, the second half would deal with them working together (begrudgingly), sharing powers, fighting together, solving 3 way puzzles etc, and otherwise talking trash. Of course Ganon fully intends to betray the other 2 once their mission is complete. This would require Link to have a voice and a distinct personality however, something Nintendo refuses to implement. But just imagine Link and Ganon trash talking each other while simultaneously fighting alongside each other, with Zelda being the level-headed mediator or scene where Link is dangling from a cliff and Ganon, who would like nothing more than to stomp his fingers, is forced to pull him to safety. The whole backbone of the game would be the interplay between these 3 personalities in dialogue, puzzle solving and combat
McPhee Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Sounds good to me. TBH as long as the next Zelda game has a more dynamic world i'll be happy. I want to get the impression that this is a world people live in, not just a playground for Link to do his quest. This is where Zelda falls flat on it's arse, NPCs don't really do anything, they just stand and stare or wander around aimlessly. I also want more choice, TP was very linear. Other than that i'd like to see implications for Link's actions throughout the story. An ability to make right and wrong decisions, and the game world changing to reflect these. I think this is very unlikely to happen though. Oh, and voice acting :p
Speedfreak Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 4 things I think need to be fixed for the next Zelda: 1) The amount of time between the start of the game and the first dungeon. Running around Ordon for 2 hours as Link, then another 2 hours as a wolf sucked ass. It needs to be immediate like in OoT. 2) The amount of time between the start of the game and actually being able to explore Hyrule. In TP You didn't get to explore until after the second bloody dungeon! You were shown Hyrule feild and finally got your horse and you're like "Hell yeah, time to explore", but all the paths are blocked with boulders. Lame. 3) The controls. This is a no-brainer really. TP had fine controls for it's time, but after playing Metroid and Mario they just don't hold up. I have no fear they'll make something truly amazing for the next one so this is sorta redundant. 4) The dungeons. I really didn't like most of the dungeons in TP. THe forest temple was as generic as hell, no one even explained it's existence. Next up was a mine, then a water temple that, again, wasn't even really like a temple. I want the next game to be full of dungeons that are just absolutely insane. I want stuff as cool as the Stone Tower Temple, the Tower of the Gods, Eagle's Tower, Great Bay Temple. They even buggered the Temple of Time up and made it about statues. Why not an item that aged the temple itself like it did outside? That would've been amazing. The City in the Sky was stunning, until they ruined it with those damn chickens. If the're gonna throw generic stuff our way then they should at least make it feel cool. The Forest Temple in OoT is a great example, it felt spooky yet it had that forest emblem all over the place that really made it feel like a place of worship. Okay, okay, 4 and a half. 4.5) Sort out Link's running animation. He looked ridiculous in TP. A lot of the story ideas being put forward are silly. Zelda is a simple fairytale. Fairytales do not have crazy plots, they're simple and have a moral. The moral of Zelda is that all a Hero needs to defeat evil is courage, it's a great story so why mess that up trying to make it as deep Metal Gear Solid?
philcollins Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 all you guys calling for a zelda game where gannon is in charge... are you forgetting the second half of ocirina of time?! basicly i think the series has become overcomplicated and to forumulised. if you think about the main games in the series, TLOZ, zelda 2, ALTTP,OOT (not icluding the 'sequel' games) the changes and developments between each were dramatic. but compare windwaker and TP and things just seem to be using the oot formular over and over again (this is fine for sequel games like majoras mask but WW and TP are supposed to be proper zelda games) i've pretty much lost faith in aonuma to be honest. in not even sure that they realise the state of affairs.. i mean he said his main mission is to make a game better than ocirina and TP is what he came up with. that game just seemed desperate to recreate ocirina but it didnt have half the magic. im not just slagging off TP and WW for the sake of it, they just dont stand up to zeldas high standards is all.. to go forward i'd like to see a more stripped down SOTC style game, i love the way in SOTC you just have your sword, your bow and your horse and apart from that your on your jack for the rest of the game. it was really refreshing compared to nintendos way of finding a certain item, then using the item on the boss and never again for the rest of the game. its just to predictible now. bigger less linear landcapes that made you feel like you were on an actual proper adventure would be nice to, ocirina felt fucking huge the first time you stepped into hyrule field. actually ww felt pretty epic when you first got onto the ocean and thought about the possibilities.. shame there was only about 2 decent islands and the rest was just completely bare and boring..
Retro_Link Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 The theme of Twilight Princess let the game down for me, as I felt Nintendo had only just done it in Prime 2, even the enemies looked incredibly similar...
Speedfreak Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 to go forward i'd like to see a more stripped down SOTC style game, i love the way in SOTC you just have your sword, your bow and your horse and apart from that your on your jack for the rest of the game. it was really refreshing compared to nintendos way of finding a certain item, then using the item on the boss and never again for the rest of the game. its just to predictible now. bigger less linear landcapes that made you feel like you were on an actual proper adventure would be nice to, ocirina felt fucking huge the first time you stepped into hyrule field. actually ww felt pretty epic when you first got onto the ocean and thought about the possibilities.. shame there was only about 2 decent islands and the rest was just completely bare and boring.. The problem with that is Zelda is all about getting stronger, and items that let you defeat more enemies and access more areas is their way of doing that. I was thinking less items and more environment-based puzzles would be better though. Like how Wind Waker eliminated Deku sticks by just having sticks in the dungeons. The theme of Twilight Princess let the game down for me, as I felt Nintendo had only just done it in Prime 2, even the enemies looked incredibly similar... They look nothing like eachother. The themes of TP and Echoes is completely different. Hell, Echoes' theme is more like the 2 most popular Zeldas, OoT and LttP.
Retro_Link Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 They look nothing like eachother.How you can say that I have know idea!For two new enemy creation, they couldn't look more similar! The themes of TP and Echoes is completely different. Hell, Echoes' theme is more like the 2 most popular Zeldas, OoT and LttP.Yes but Nintendo didn't make LttP a year previously, and no OOT is nothing like Echoes theme. I'm just saying for TP, it seemed to me like Nintendo couldn't even think of an original story/theme, let alone any true gameplay revelations.
philcollins Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 i still think you can get that feeling of getting stronger across without having to collect so many items. in SOTC i definately felt like i knew what i was doing as i came to the end of the game, wheras at the beggining it took me about 3 hours to figure out how to kill the first collossus.(i think that was a combination of being used to nintendo games and just not being used to the crap playstation controller) another thing which makes getting items a bit pointless in zelda is that the enemys just get stronger anyway so they only really work out for one dungeon. like when i got the ball and chain i thought that HAD to do some serious damage to other enemies, but its pretty much only good for the ice ones.
Deathborn Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 The theme of Twilight Princess let the game down for me, as I felt Nintendo had only just done it in Prime 2, even the enemies looked incredibly similar... They are black and have hair-like thing.... that's all. What a similarity!!
Retro_Link Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 They are black and have hair-like thing.... that's all. What a similarity!!Oh forget it! I felt like I'd seen it before anyway.
Pit-Jr Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Oh, and voice acting :p Yeah its definately time for it. If they can whore Link out into a lightgun game they can give him a voice. The theme of Twilight Princess let the game down for me, as I felt Nintendo had only just done it in Prime 2, even the enemies looked incredibly similar... I felt the same way too. Nintendo have used this light/dark theme in just about every one of their franchises, even Advance Wars is getting it next.
McMad Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Personally for me the next Zelda needs to be set in a different world to Hyrule, so it doesn't have to conform to the typical concept of Hyrule and contain all the locations that we've seen before and become bored of. (I'm looking at you Death Mountain) So a brand new world, but that doesn't mean our favourite races can't come along too; Gorons, Zoras, hey even the Gerudo are invited, although Oocca can fuck off. I'd like the next Zelda to experiment with new environments that the series hasn't done before; we've had Forests, Mountains, Lakes, Seas, Deserts, what could they possibly do next you ask? Jungles; with maybe amazonian aztec type setting. The Wilderness; I'm thinking something like the Australian outback, with huge landmark, something like Ayers rock, being the key location of the area, but this area would emphasize the feelings of strain and loneliness in the player. And I've got some other ideas for themed areas (a beautiful/serene place and a depressed/horrific place locked in perpetual night), although they're no good at the moment. I want Nintendo to do away with areas locked in one type of climate because that interferes with an idea many people in this thread have had that I like; the idea of changing seasons, which would be fantastic for a Zelda game. Voice acting is a must for the next Zelda as long as Link keeps his mouth shut like Gordon Freeman, a strong script and good translations are also necessary. I'll talk about some more ideas I have later.
Tellyn Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 I've only read McMad's ideas (which were fantastic), and I agree that Zelda needs to take a new direction. Phantom Hourglass was great in terms of innovation, it makes me wonder what they can do next.
Cube Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 all you guys calling for a zelda game where gannon is in charge... are you forgetting the second half of ocirina of time?! They didn't really do a great job of making it feel like he was in charge, though. More like he'd done a bit of damage to Hyrule, made a castle and then sat waiting. I think the biggest improvement should be more interactive/changing towns. They could do a "weekly rota" or something for people (I'd settle for daily if there were enough "important" people), and have people moving town/new people arriving/people dying (of course, alter side-quests so you can't miss out on any items). And have Gannondorf actually do something instead of just waiting for Link (like people talking about seeing him while you've been in a dungeon). And the next version of the Lost Woods should be like the Twilight Princess trailer.
Retro_Link Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 And the next version of the Lost Woods should be like the Twilight Princess trailer.Which trailer you thinking of? The very first one?
Cube Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Which trailer you thinking of? The very first one? Yea. The one with an actual forest.
McMad Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 And the next version of the Lost Woods should be like the Twilight Princess trailer. Quoted for the utmost truth, I was really looking forward to that open ended forest, but then it turn out to be shitty Ordon Woods. I totally agree with other people's ideas at making the game more interactive and immersive, I'd love for the world to feel truly alive.
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