One of Spores developers says "The Wii is a Piece of Sh*t!"

[Aimless]

Do you know what Gameplay is?

 

(No offence)

The 360 and PS3's advanced processing power can spawn new gameplay, I think. It's just that — much like the Wiimote — most publishers are too busy trying to make the optimal profits off of ports and sequels to really play to the new possibilities the hardware brings with it.

 

I don't know what these new forms of gameplay are going to be yet — I'm not a videogame visionary like Miyamoto or Will Wright — but we can already see glimpses of the kind of things we might be seeing in Dead Rising and MotorStorm with the vast crowds and physics-reliant gameplay.

 

Look at it this way: GTAIII wasn't possible on the PSOne but now sandbox games are practically a genre in themselves. It was only from the PSTwo onwards that this kind of game was really feasible, and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw other new game types become commonplace by the end of this generation of consoles, and certainly not just on Wii.

[ReZourceman]

The 360 and PS3's advanced processing power can spawn new gameplay, I think. It's just that — much like the Wiimote — most publishers are too busy trying to make the optimal profits off of ports and sequels to really play to the new possibilities the hardware brings with it.

 

Agreed. This whole "Crowd, physics, AI" stuff is really exciting. I cant wait to get my mitts on an absolutely awesome, realism-graphics, huge-scape loads of crowds/enemies kill-zombie/Dinosaur/monster fest, Ala GTA come Godzilla come Resi come Platform Game come...Well you get the idea.

 

Equally I cant wait to act out the Star Wars movies, using the Wii mote as a Lightsabre.

 

Its a very exciting time to be a games fan...THATS ALL I KNOWWW!!!! :bowdown:

[DCK]

LittleBigPlannet and Dead Rising. And I wouldn't class the consoles as HD consoles. They also give alot of power to throw around how many enemies can be on screen, how big the enviroments are, how the physics work on and between characters and objects in the virtual world.

The concept of gameplay is not shooting more enemies, or shooting enemies and see them fall to the ground with hyperrealistic physics simulation. I'm sure it makes it more fun to some extent, but it doesn't go beyond the idea of more, bigger, more realistic... It doesn't present new ideas. The 360 is actually physically unable to produce such games, as it's basically the same thing as the Xbox but with jaw-dropping hardware underneath.

 

The environment interaction, the bigger = better idea, is not impossible on Wii by the way.

 

That and the fact that you bring up Blue Dragon as an example of an artistic game just because it uses a fancy new render technique gives me the impression that your view on games design is really shallow. It's not the hardware and tools that make good games - it's something called talent.

[ZeldaFreak]

The concept of gameplay is not shooting more enemies, or shooting enemies and see them fall to the ground with hyperrealistic physics simulation. I'm sure it makes it more fun to some extent, but it doesn't go beyond the idea of more, bigger, more realistic... It doesn't present new ideas. The 360 is actually physically unable to produce such games, as it's basically the same thing as the Xbox but with jaw-dropping hardware underneath.

 

The environment interaction, the bigger = better idea, is not impossible on Wii by the way.

 

That and the fact that you bring up Blue Dragon as an example of an artistic game just because it uses a fancy new render technique gives me the impression that your view on games design is really shallow. It's not the hardware and tools that make good games - it's something called talent.

 

Thats why it comes from the godfarther of Jrpgs, final fantasy. And yes design of Blue Dragon, fantastic designed characters, enviroments enemies.

 

Of course the 360 can provide new experiences to gamers it would be very immature of you if you claimed it didn't. Plus you said state a game which couldn't be done on the 'HD machines' as you put it ,I did your wrong!

 

You speak some crap to prove your point I'm putting you on my ignore list.

 

Oh and I love the way you discounted LittleBigPlannet.

[ReZourceman]

you speak crap to prove your point I'm putting you on my ignore list.

 

Of course the 360 can provide new experiences to gamers it would be very immature of you if you claimed so.

 

You're not making too much sense yourself man.

 

[DCK]

Thats why it comes from the godfarther of Jrpgs, final fantasy. And yes design of Blue Dragon, fantastic designed characters, enviroments enemies.

You really don't see how Okami surpasses that, do you?

 

Of course the 360 can provide new experiences to gamers it would be very immature of you if you claimed so.

Please use real arguments.

 

Plus you said state a game which couldn't be done on the 'HD machines' as you put it I did your wrong - you speak crap to prove your point I'm putting you on my ignore list.

That's very mature of you. I don't like the term HD consoles either, I just don't like to type PS3/360 all the time; it's a freaking figure of speech.

 

Oh and I love the way you discounted LittleBigPlannet.

In what way exactly? I think it's a killer-app to be honest; just don't pretend stuff like this is exclusive to powerful consoles.

[ZeldaFreak]

You're not making too much sense yourself man.

 

 

You misssed quoted me

[ReZourceman]

You misssed quoted me

 

Erm,...I quoted the bit that didnt make sense. I can quote it in context if you really want, but it still wont make sense.

[ZeldaFreak]

You really don't see how Okami surpasses that, do you?

 

Please use real arguments.

 

That's very mature of you. I don't like the term HD consoles either, I just don't like to type PS3/360 all the time; it's a freaking figure of speech.

 

In what way exactly? I think it's a killer-app to be honest; just don't pretend stuff like this is exclusive to powerful consoles.

 

Yes I know why okami is a good game. But you fail to realise that Blue Dragon is a well designed game.

 

Lets suppose Blue Dragon was originally coming out on the wii instead of 360. You would of been OMG as good as Okami. The fact it isn't your throwing your toys out the pram - because lets face it the software on the wii is not there yet.

 

Erm,...I quoted the bit that didnt make sense. I can quote it in context if you really want, but it still wont make sense.

 

I edited my post you know

 

[DCK]

Yes I know why okami is a good game. But you fail to realise that Blue Dragon is a well designed game.

The game looks really nice, I agree, but comparing it with Okami is far out to be honest. It has nice cel-shading, but where does the art go from there? It reminds me of Tales 360, nothing more.

It looks really nice.

 

Lets suppose Blue Dragon was originally coming out on the wii instead of 360. You would of been OMG as good as Okami. The fact it isn't your throwing your toys out the pram - because lets face it the software on the wii is not there yet.

Easy isn't it to use the blind fanboy argument? Obviously you're missing the point that Okami isn't a Wii game either. I don't even own a PS2.

 

The Wii doesn't have the games, and that's a very true thing. But that doesn't mean we'd have to crap on it like this Maxis guy is doing, because it has at least as much (and probably more) potential as the other two consoles.

[ReZourceman]

Yes I know why okami is a good game. But you fail to realise that Blue Dragon is a well designed game.

 

Lets suppose Blue Dragon was originally coming out on the wii instead of 360. You would of been OMG as good as Okami. The fact it isn't your throwing your toys out the pram - because lets face it the software on the wii is not there yet.

 

Oh...my...god....

 

You dish this argument out to anyone you disagree with!

[Tellyn]

ZeldaFreak, I haven't read all of your posts in this thread, but from that one: shut up.

 

This might be the fanboy inside me speaking, but I think this guy is struggling to think of any good ideas or is just not used to developing motion control games.

[Kurtle Squad]

Yes I know why okami is a good game. But you fail to realise that Blue Dragon is a well designed game.

 

Lets suppose Blue Dragon was originally coming out on the wii instead of 360. You would of been OMG as good as Okami. The fact it isn't your throwing your toys out the pram - because lets face it the software on the wii is not there yet.

 

 

 

I edited my post you know

 

 

Dude....you seem to be mixing up the arguments of what games are art & what games could be done on what consoles.

[pedrocasilva]

I was out for a while so I went right were I stopped...

Em pedro slow down - yes its supposedy 3 times the power of the GC - but seen as nintendo and alot of developers aren't even trying to see what the system holds. Then I remain to be convinced.

2/3 times yes, but that doesn't mean to me that they're two GC's glued over, that argument is just made in order to bash the platform.

 

Most developers didn't push GC, and this one had her CPU and GPU reworked after all, it's certainly not the same hardware.

 

Familiar?=yes

Compatible?=yes

Same?=no

The fact is, when one developer says the Wii is actually pretty good and not that underpowered it's posted up here as 'proof', when another says the opposite it's pulled to pieces and labelled as 'lies'.

 

The fact is this guy likes his games to look good, throw around nice graohics and utilise processor heavy AI. The Wii can't do that. So he doesn't like it.

Like others said Spore is not exactly a system pusher, and believe me... Wii is not that weak in dhrystones compared to other architectures.

 

Did you ever see Dhrystone 2.1 benchmarks done on Cell architecture?

 

・Dhrystone v2.1

PS3 Cell 3.2GHz: 1879.630

PowerPC G4 1.25GHz: 2202.600

PentiumIII 866MHz: 1124.311

Pentium4 2.0AGHz: 1694.717

Pentium4 3.2GHz: 3258.068

 

For comparison GC's gekko did 1125 DMIPS in this benchmark, considering what IGN said... that Wii's CPU equalled to double GC's performance without optimizations...

 

Gamecube: 1125 DMIPS @ 486 MHz

PS3 Cell PPE: 1879,5 @ 3,2 GHz

Wii: 1125x2? DMIPS=2250 @ 729 MHz

 

Wow, let's complain about processing power. Of course this benchmark is not taking into account SPE's since they are not even designed to run this type of general processing stuff.

 

Cell would be useless as a home CPU, and guess what Spore uses to run it's AI; Ai doesn't need whetstones (floating point operations) but dhrystones hence these benchmarks.

 

They aren't official PR numbers either, both consoles have PowerPC's and they can run Linux so people can benchmark the CPU's in dhrystones.

 

Off course they also take advantages of that, Cell's ammount of gigaflops is indeed big when compared to a general purpose CPU, hell... even PS2 beats a Pentium 4 when it comes to gigaflops.

 

But the reason home CPU's don't really go for gigaflops is because we have GPU's taking over that function. PS3 was at a point in time planned to lack a GPU, instead it would have 2 cell's

 

Original PowerPC 970 where Cell and Xenon were based had 17 stages, and back when X360 came out they were only clocked at 2,5 Ghz, these console CPU's were cut down and had it's number of stages scretched up to 30.

 

They're not efficient to the point that Wii's CPU can actually keep up with them. The real advantage goes to X360 because although not that powerful it has 3 cores, that's why we hear ubisoft saying Assasin's AI for PS3 will be cut down, they simply don't have room in Ps3 to run it, unless they'd script and assign them all to SPE's that are not that practical or useful for that.

 

Similar to how P4 was always higher clocked than AMD but had lower performance, but P4 was not simplified in the process and it had a cache miss prediction, that Xenon and Cell lack.

 

Point is he never worked on Wii, he doesn't know the hardware that well and he obviously doesn't want to know; all he did was look to specs, that's why when a developer like Factor 5 comes out and said "we think no one knows better what the Wii can do considering the specs and no developers are taking advantage of that" that fair enough, they didn't even need to come out and say it, we knew it already.

 

when a guy who never worked on the hardware comes and craps on it... it's simply ridiculous, the point people actually believe him and use him as a reference or like you said "proof" is even worse to my eyes, although I won't blame you for that.

 

Nobody's saying the Wii is as powerful as the other consoles mind you, I'm simply saying it's not that limited.

[ZeldaFreak]

Alot of assumpions you have made there pedro

[pedrocasilva]

Alot of assumpions you have made there pedro

Not really; I'm being realistic there.

 

I think I explained the fact well, and I even gave the benchmarks proving my point.The only assumption is that Wii's CPU is really roughly double Gekko's, since we don't have native Linux yet to benchmark it.

 

Cell is a weak CPU in general processing. I actually prefer X360's architecture if we are getting at that point, I rather have 3 capable cores than a single core with 7 SPE's.

 

Oh well, all this to break the logic of "wii's lacks the power to run AI", X360 is certainly more capable but Wii is not useless.

 

Looking at a 729 MHz against a 3,2 GHz one it's easy to make that assumption, but it's not necessrily true. Cell was not designed for general processing (and I see that as a flaw), in fact I think both X360 and PS3 should have focused more on general processing power than gigaflops.

[Anakenobi]

I was reading some of the replies and the whole thread seems to be about "educating" ZeldaFreak out of his ignorance.

 

The whole thread. Every bit of it.

 

Don't waste yourselves... it's pointless.

[Hellfire]

I'm posting in a legendary thread.

[Tellyn]

fr33 stff plz

 

I think the only reason people think it's underpowered is because they look at the graphics of other games made for it and think "oh, this is worse than GC. Let's make a poor looking game and blame Nintendo for our financial losses."

[blender]

my daddy said "meow meow meow"

[Anakenobi]

my daddy said "meow meow meow"

 

So your daddy is a pussy...what else is new.

 

And this is how threads get off topic. And possibly... locked. : peace:

[The Bard]

He has a point to an extent. But what he's failing to see that Wii does have potential. I don't think Nintendo have stopped seeing games as art, games like Metroid Prime 3 are testament to that, but at the same time, I wish thy wouldn't churn out shitty minigame compliations like no tomorrow. It's a mixed bag at the moment.

[Fresh]

"Wii is like 2 gamecubes stuck together?"

 

Well since one gamecube and deliver games such as The Legend of Zelda TP and WW/Resident Evil 4/Metriod Prime/Mario Golf, why is this such a bad thing?

 

Bring on duel gamecube i say!

[Dante]

Title edit please. :p

 

Remember Maxis developer Chris Hecker calling the Wii a "piece of shit"? He has an apology for you.

I don't know who has read the internet, yesterday. In a [unintelligible] panel I said a bunch of things. I was trying to be thought provoking and entertaining and fun and a lot of the stuff went too far over the top—on the entertaining and fun side, so that it was no longer thought provoking, just inflammatory. And in the process I hurt a bunch of people I care about. And so, I want to apologize now.

 

When I'm on stage, I'm me. I'm talking talk from me. From me. I'm not representing EA or Maxis.

 

I want to make two things perfectly clear.

 

I do not think the Wii is a piece of shit. Nintendo needs to be applauded for trying to interface on the controller front, the user interface front, on making games accessible, on making a console that you don't need to mortgage your house to afford.

 

Secondly, it's totally obvious—and I'm sorry that I implied otherwise—that everyone at Nintendo is passionate at making great games. Some of the games give me hope that we will be seen as an art form on par with movies and books.

 

Whether or not he was made to apologize by his bosses isn't clear, but it's a good gesture nonetheless.

[Zechs Merquise]

Title edit please. :p

 

Remember Maxis developer Chris Hecker calling the Wii a "piece of shit"? He has an apology for you.

I don't know who has read the internet, yesterday. In a [unintelligible] panel I said a bunch of things. I was trying to be thought provoking and entertaining and fun and a lot of the stuff went too far over the top—on the entertaining and fun side, so that it was no longer thought provoking, just inflammatory. And in the process I hurt a bunch of people I care about. And so, I want to apologize now.

 

When I'm on stage, I'm me. I'm talking talk from me. From me. I'm not representing EA or Maxis.

 

I want to make two things perfectly clear.

 

I do not think the Wii is a piece of shit. Nintendo needs to be applauded for trying to interface on the controller front, the user interface front, on making games accessible, on making a console that you don't need to mortgage your house to afford.

 

Secondly, it's totally obvious—and I'm sorry that I implied otherwise—that everyone at Nintendo is passionate at making great games. Some of the games give me hope that we will be seen as an art form on par with movies and books.

 

Whether or not he was made to apologize by his bosses isn't clear, but it's a good gesture nonetheless.

 

What a ****. It's one thing gobbing off, it's another thing having to apologise like a naughty little child! HAHA

 

So he has an opinion, but ffs stick to your guns lad lol