Dewy's Adventure

[James McGeachie]

Dewy is far nicer looking in my eyes. I actually think it is above Gamecube titles from a technical standpoint, it's great to see normal mapping being done.

 

Only thing bothering me much is the shadows, I wish they were stencil shadows.

[pedrocasilva]

Dewy is far nicer looking in my eyes. I actually think it is above Gamecube titles from a technical standpoint, it's great to see normal mapping being done.

 

Only thing bothering me much is the shadows, I wish they were stencil shadows.

Even PS2 did normal mapping, IGN is just plain stupid saying that stuff.

 

here:

 

-> http://playstation2-linux.com/download/p2lsd/ps2_normalmapping.pdf

 

Sure it might not be ideal and all, but it was possible from a technical standpoint and there were developers claiming to use it, GC also did normal maps; no reason for the Wii not being able to, thus the surprise Dewy's developer showed when Matt gone all jumpy on him on how they thought normal mapping impossible.

 

Incidentally (for those reading the link) the kind of bump mapping GC's flipper does with less hit is no less than DOT3 (should hold true for Wii), same is not true for say... Xbox; hence one of the reasons why games should not be ported over between the two systems mindlessly if you want to take out the best of them. DOT3 is supposed to be better though, because it allows for extra layers of stuff being applied over.

[ZeldaFreak]

Hey I did I say it was a clone, no! Did I say it had the same graphics style, yes! Dewey looks far softer around the edges. However they can still have a team working on the graphics though.

[Tyson]

The game isn't even finished yet, is it? There's plenty of 'polishing' time left. It's probably already one of the best looking Wii games though.

 

I know it's all a matter of opinion, but when so many people disagree with you and start showing resentment, you've got to consider that may actually be a teensy bit in the wrong.

[ZeldaFreak]

The game isn't even finished yet, is it? There's plenty of 'polishing' time left. It's probably already one of the best looking Wii games though.

 

I know it's all a matter of opinion, but when so many people disagree with you and start showing resentment, you've got to consider that may actually be a teensy bit in the wrong.

 

Hey well I know the graphics look good, but the best surely you jest Galaxy looks alot nicer from a graphical standpoint.

 

I sometimes do like these sought of games though, however I am baseing my problem with the fact that the graphics from what the guys on 1up podcast said. They said internet fanboys are saying the graphics are fantastic when they are gamecube standard.

 

I haven't really disagreed with anyone. However there really hasn't been a 3rd party yet or to some degree 1st party who have pushed the wii. Most of the games we are now getting are at the end of gamecube power, but lest we not forget wii is 3 times the power of GC. So come on if we are only operating at 1/3rd of its power is kinda lame.

[DCK]

I think it's really hard to spot the difference between GameCube graphics and Wii graphics - a lot of the additional power is in details now. Also, that "3x more powerful" quote is overused; it has been used since E3 2005 when the specs were not finalised. To say the Wii is 3x more powerful takes it a bit too far, looking at the specs... 2x is realistic, but that doesn't mean a big difference in graphics compared to GameCube.

 

I don't think Dewey's pushing the Wii but it looks pretty good nonetheless.

[ZeldaFreak]

I think it's really hard to spot the difference between GameCube graphics and Wii graphics - a lot of the additional power is in details now. Also, that "3x more powerful" quote is overused; it has been used since E3 2005 when the specs were not finalised. To say the Wii is 3x more powerful takes it a bit too far, looking at the specs... 2x is realistic, but that doesn't mean a big difference in graphics compared to GameCube.

 

I don't think Dewey's pushing the Wii but it looks pretty good nonetheless.

 

I guess you are talking about the rumored specs - the actual specs for the console haven't been released you know.

[James McGeachie]

I guess you are talking about the rumored specs - the actual specs for the console haven't been released you know.

 

Oh fuck up you ****. Anyone who still believes that now is retarded. Do you think with all the developers out there with the system that if the real specs were different we wouldn't know? Do you think we'd be getting games that look like they fit the bill of the specs we do know exactly?

 

It's 1.5 to 2 times as powerful, end of story. Perrin Kaplan said "2-3 times as power" as a rough estimate way before it was out. It ended up closer to the "2" end of things than the "3"..

 

Also for the record I'm positive I seen a picture before of a dissected Wii and the specs were on the hardware and matched with the IGN numbers.

 

Nintendo said they'd never "officially announce" the specs. You know why? Because they fucking knew they sucked ass and didn't want anyone to make a big deal out of them.

[pedrocasilva]

Hey I did I say it was a clone, no! Did I say it had the same graphics style, yes! Dewey looks far softer around the edges. However they can still have a team working on the graphics though.

Well... No it doesn't, if it's style has to do with Billy Hatcher then it has to do with Wind Waker, pikmin and other unrealistic kiddy-looking games too.

 

There's simply no real connection with Billy Hatcher's style (pretty bland game graphically)

 

And of course they have a team working on the graphics, and above all they have a good artistic direction; but if you really want to take the piss on them, sure, go ahead.

I sometimes do like these sought of games though, however I am baseing my problem with the fact that the graphics from what the guys on 1up podcast said. They said internet fanboys are saying the graphics are fantastic when they are gamecube standard.

You're basing your problem on a opinion that wasn't even yours, it was 1up's and already disrespectful to the game, they were taking the piss.

 

Yes, it's above GC standard (compare with Billy Hatcher as you suggested, it's a GC game), seriously what the game has it's all the game needs graphically.

I haven't really disagreed with anyone. However there really hasn't been a 3rd party yet or to some degree 1st party who have pushed the wii. Most of the games we are now getting are at the end of gamecube power, but lest we not forget wii is 3 times the power of GC. So come on if we are only operating at 1/3rd of its power is kinda lame.

Rogue Squadron 3 pushed double the polygons compared to Rogue Squadron 2, yet the graphics looked virtually the same in space missions, meaning, no one noticed the diference double the polygons had in 480p; hence one of the reasons why X360 and PS3 gone HD, because a lot of X360 games in SD look Xbox, graphics could already be good, same is true for GC, and Wii is still on 480p.

 

There might not be a game that'll look 3 times better than RE4, even if it's indeed 3 times better, good GC graphics are still going to be good GC graphics on the Wii, even if you have a higher ceiling now, you have to pull aside with shaders, more fillrate effects, lightning and artistic direction.

I guess you are talking about the rumored specs - the actual specs for the console haven't been released you know.

Those are the specs, knowing what they mean is a completely different though.

 

IGN did their analysis wrong back then and there's still a lot of people doing that.

 

but yeah, Wii should be roughly 3 times the power with extra advantages to be taken of (like in RAM with the 64 MB flash cache), the GPU's core size is bigger than flipper while on a smaller production method, for one, and for the patents that are out, seems like they've put a Shader unit in each pipeline, while maintaining the TEV pipeline intact for compatibility, if these are indeed different and not merged (not suggested by the diagrams) and developers can use both programmable TEV pipeline and shader unit... the chip has a reason to be called Hollywood when it comes to shader abilities.

Nintendo said they'd never "officially announce" the specs. You know why? Because they fucking knew they sucked ass and didn't want anyone to make a big deal out of them.

The specs don't suck, numbers don't mean everything, it's a pretty good console when it comes to hardware nonetheless.

[DCK]

I agree somewhat with James's statement as half of what's in the Wii was in the GameCube too - it's far from impressive. The numbers don't say much (neither do the PS3's and 360's) but there's a lot of old technology in there.

but yeah, Wii should be roughly 3 times the power with extra advantages to be taken of (like in RAM with the 64 MB flash cache), the GPU's core size is bigger than flipper while on a smaller production method, for one, and for the patents that are out, seems like they've put a Shader unit in each pipeline, while maintaining the TEV pipeline intact for compatibility, if these are indeed different and not merged (not suggested by the diagrams) and developers can use both programmable TEV pipeline and shader unit... the chip has a reason to be called Hollywood when it comes to shader abilities.

That's nice to hear - that means that the Wii has the TEV and 4 shaders at its disposal, right? A total of 8 shaders is decent; it's probably Mario Galaxy's secret. Hopefully other games will start using that extra power soon - like Metroid Prime 3 hopefully.

[flameboy]

Could be why Metroid Prime 3 has been delayed so much from a launch game? Adding this extra power, because the initial movies of it, aside from a few extra lighting effects looked very similar to the 1st two...

[DCK]

Could be why Metroid Prime 3 has been delayed so much from a launch game? Adding this extra power, because the initial movies of it, aside from a few extra lighting effects looked very similar to the 1st two...

Those extra lighting effects showed that they were experimenting with the extra shaders; lighting is one of the things shaders are used for. That little bit of bloom lighting we've seen should be far from what is possible though, and the delay probably opened up possibilities for Retro to do some more effects, like normal mapping or shadow volumes.

 

To be honest, Mario Galaxy is the only game I'm seeing this stuff get used in so far. Dewy's Adventure doesn't visibly take advantage of it, does it?

[flameboy]

No it clearly doesn't your right...But Mario Galaxy clearly does, gonna go try find a good screen shot to show it off...

 

cheers for the links, didn't know what shadow volumes were! good old wikipedia!

[ZeldaFreak]

Well... No it doesn't, if it's style has to do with Billy Hatcher then it has to do with Wind Waker, pikmin and other unrealistic kiddy-looking games too.

 

There's simply no real connection with Billy Hatcher's style (pretty bland game graphically)

 

And of course they have a team working on the graphics, and above all they have a good artistic direction; but if you really want to take the piss on them, sure, go ahead.You're basing your problem on a opinion that wasn't even yours, it was 1up's and already disrespectful to the game, they were taking the piss.

 

Yes, it's above GC standard (compare with Billy Hatcher as you suggested, it's a GC game), seriously what the game has it's all the game needs graphically.Rogue Squadron 3 pushed double the polygons compared to Rogue Squadron 2, yet the graphics looked virtually the same in space missions, meaning, no one noticed the diference double the polygons had in 480p; hence one of the reasons why X360 and PS3 gone HD, because a lot of X360 games in SD look Xbox, graphics could already be good, same is true for GC, and Wii is still on 480p.

 

There might not be a game that'll look 3 times better than RE4, even if it's indeed 3 times better, good GC graphics are still going to be good GC graphics on the Wii, even if you have a higher ceiling now, you have to pull aside with shaders, more fillrate effects, lightning and artistic direction.Those are the specs, knowing what they mean is a completely different though.

 

Firstly Dewey has the same style of Billy Hatcher just much better implementation. And secondly yeah I based my opinion on what they said as do I with Gamespot (not with IGN though), but nevertheless they said the graphics were ok - they weren't joking around like you say. Oh yeah and I don't see the wii through rose tinted glasses.

 

Simply saying the 1up guys have played it you haven't. So you should kinda respect their opinions when they that Dewey looks like a gamecube game.

[pedrocasilva]

that means that the Wii has the TEV and 4 shaders at its disposal, right?

Don't know for sure since I didn't see any core diagram, but everything should be double in there, double the pipelines and then some more, including these new shader units. Question is if I can use both at the same time.

Those extra lighting effects showed that they were experimenting with the extra shaders; lighting is one of the things shaders are used for. That little bit of bloom lighting we've seen should be far from what is possible though, and the delay probably opened up possibilities for Retro to do some more effects, like normal mapping or shadow volumes.

Normal maps were used in GC and no harder than Xbox, GC in hardware should have advantage even, because we did more texture passes compared to Xbox, I don't know about shadow volume but should have been possible already (it was in Xbox), even if not used.

 

Thing is, most of these stuff is included in DirectX SDK's, but not on GC/Wii's Devkits, from what I understood from Dewey's team they had to program normal maps in, shouldn't be harder, but it has to be implemented nonetheless, it would be nice to have a library with those.

 

But yeah, with extra ceiling they sure could waste it on those.

To be honest, Mario Galaxy is the only game I'm seeing this stuff get used in so far. Dewy's Adventure doesn't visibly take advantage of it, does it?

Nothing that I see as impossible on GC, but it really looks much better than games with the same budget and target market in GC, I see it as a step in the right direction.

Dewey has the same style of Billy Hatcher just much better implementation.

LOL!

 

I'll even quote myself to make a point:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually searched for the impossible in those, since the games aren't even remotely similar... but seriously... "Dewey has the same style of Billy Hatcher just much better implementation."?

 

I'd really drop that... there's no basis to make that comparison, that's just spitting on Dewy's, Hatcher wasn't even particularly inspired for it's time or a graphics beast (or art direction), and the goal of the game, style of camera and all... weren't even the same.

[Cube]

Dewy's Adventure looks lovely. They don't need to do anything else to it.

[Hellfire]

Mmmm... do I agree with pedro and cause reactions against the portuguese mafia or do I sit still and do nothing?

Decisions, decisions...

[ZeldaFreak]

I actually searched for the impossible in those, since the games aren't even remotely similar... but seriously... "Dewey has the same style of Billy Hatcher just much better implementation."?

 

I'd really drop that... there's no basis to make that comparison, that's just spitting on Dewy's, Hatcher wasn't even particularly inspired for it's time or a graphics beast (or art direction), and the goal of the game, style of camera and all... weren't even the same.

 

I did actually mean the art style I hope you did realise that. Billy Hatcher was a decent game from the sonic team.

 

But anyway I digress, from the rest of what you say it makes the wii just seem like Gamecube 1.5 really. Developers won't use the power of the wii just stick to gamecube capped power, mind you at the moment the wii is kinda like a harbour now what with all the ports docking into it for cash. Until that changes with awesome controls for games coming to it this is what will happen.

[pedrocasilva]

I did actually mean the art style I hope you did realise that. Billy Hatcher was a decent game from the sonic team.

My point stands, I can't see how they can be compared. Seems forced as I've never seen nothing in common between them.

But anyway I digress, from the rest of what you say it makes the wii just seem like Gamecube 1.5 really. Developers won't use the power of the wii just stick to gamecube capped power, mind you at the moment the wii is kinda like a harbour now what with all the ports docking into it for cash. Until that changes with awesome controls for games coming to it this is what will happen.

If that's how you read it, fine (GC1,5), that's not how I see it though, I see it as... good amount of power to make SD graphics actually.

 

Dewey's looks better than GC standards (not maximum), because of that, and I'd be happy if this was the standard the developers where going for the Wii.

 

I was also warning that previous gen games with a high budget already did good graphics, Wii is more powerful, sure, but even if it was 6 times the power in SD it wouldn't put, say, RE4 to shame. It would be good if a lot of developers could start to get closer to that Wii Standards, that starts where GC maximum is, of course.

 

Dewy's is not "ok for gamecube", that's depreciating it actually; "could be done on GC" should be mostly right although of course they're using some wii specific features like more RAM than that available on cube and such.

[Tyson]

Where does ZeldaFreak find the time to research all his solid facts and post paragraphs of re-used crap in his busy schedule?

You should really just drop this now.

[ZeldaFreak]

Where does ZeldaFreak find the time to research all his solid facts and post paragraphs of re-used crap in his busy schedule?

You should really just drop this now.

 

From one of the greatest podcasts 1up

[pedrocasilva]

Famitsu Scan:

[click to enlarge]

 

Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6341430&postcount=272

[ReZourceman]

Teehee. Havnt played a good new Platform 3D game in....AAAGGGEEEESSS.

[James McGeachie]

You know to add to all that technobabble earlier on here's some developer quotes about the system. There's a link to the full article on the page too.

 

http://gonintendo.com/?p=17568

 

Answer (source 2) - “A dev support guy from Nintendo said that the Wii chipset is ‘Gamecube 1.5 with some added memory. I figure if they say that, it must be true. There are three main differences which will result in graphics improvements. One, the increased memory clock speed, from 162 megahertz to 243 megahertz, means that it is easier to do enough pixels for 480p mode versus 480i. Two, the enhanced memory size of the Wii gives much more room for image-related operations such as anti-aliasing, motion blur, etc. The performance to these memory systems from the graphics chip is also improved. So full-screen effects and increased texture usage seem likely as a result

 

Unless you want to claim "he's lying" then he states flat out that a Nintendo source told him it's a Gamecube 1.5, simple as that.

[The Lillster]

You know to add to all that technobabble earlier on here's some developer quotes about the system. There's a link to the full article on the page too.

 

http://gonintendo.com/?p=17568

 

 

 

Unless you want to claim "he's lying" then he states flat out that a Nintendo source told him it's a Gamecube 1.5, simple as that.

 

In simpleton terms, yes.