Jasper Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Yes, shadowV7 - it's easy just reversing everything everyone said for the better. You have some good, valid points, but not all of theem are that easy to deny. Kakariko is small and useless with only 2 villagers. It's not the same, sprawling town we once knew. There is no magic in the game, though being a basic Zelda ingredient. (Not that I personally miss it, but it would have bein nice) You caan't throw all the arguments away. But it's still a great game and I agree that not all the arguments given are right. But I must congratulate you on putting all that time on quoting people.
fanman Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Kakariko is meant to be that way because of the twilight.
Jasper Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Kakariko is meant to be that way because of the twilight. But there are still only three vilagers while in the Twilight and after the twilight. And in the twilight, the town is as broken too.
Cube Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Still...the bomb shot owner has more personality than the whole of the OoT's Kakariko...
fanman Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 But there are still only three vilagers while in the Twilight and after the twilight. And in the twilight, the town is as broken too. So you expect dead people to come back to life because the twilight has passed?
Jasper Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 So you expect dead people to come back to life because the twilight has passed? Why the hell do the people actually die in Kakariko,, then? Nobody died in Castle Town, so why in Kakariko? Sorry, it's just so ... cheap. I don't like it at all. It could be so much better, but no it's not. I'm sorry, but Kakariko is supposed to be more sprawling than Castl Town itself... Ah well. My opinion.
fanman Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Because they fell into some trap and came out of their houses where the monsters ate them. It was mentioned in a cutscene. The monsters just didn't go into castle town.
Cube Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Because they fell into some trap and came out of their houses where the monsters ate them. It was mentioned in a cutscene. The monsters just didn't go into castle town. Well, Hyrule itself was sort-of protected. There was no single person to "surrender" the other places, tho...
Jasper Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Must have forgotten about that one, then. I still think it could have bein better.
motion Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Still...the bomb shot owner has more personality than the whole of the OoT's Kakariko... I find arguments that certain aspects in TP are better than they were in OoT hilarious. OoT is almost 10 years old!! You would expect TP to surpass it in certain aspects. The fact that TP fails in the majority is what's laughable.
fanman Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 TP doesn't fail in the majority. It is better than OoT. People only think OoT is better because it had a big impact on them, which this game obviously can't have.
fanman Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 TP better than OoT?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Better graphics, better sound, better gameplay. OoT is horrible to play now.
Cube Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 TP doesn't fail in the majority. It is better than OoT. People only think OoT is better because it had a big impact on them, which this game obviously can't have. I personally missed the "big impact" from OoT (Can't remember exactly when I bought it, but I know my cartridge had version 1 on it, so I must of been just after it's release)...wasn't really much fun for me (utterly loved MM,WW and TP..probably because I was an awful gamer back when I got OoT)
motion Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 There's enough to do in it.There's bugs,poes,heart pieces,hidden caves and kill enemies. Killing enemies, obviously. Hidden caves, what all 3 of them? There were about 30 in OoT and MM. Heart pieces, poes and bugs, again big deal. You'd expect those. Somewhat exaggerated.Not much of a difference in the number of things you have to do in TP Kakariko and OOT Kakariko. That's a joke right? Firstly ignoring the fact that OOT is 10 years old, there are two things to do in Kakariko TP, the bomb shop and Malo Mart. Wow. Again not much you had to do in OOT Castletown either.There was more in TP Castletown. Maybe, but as I said, you'd think that in 10 years Nintendo could make a better castle town. I wouldn't call 5 or 6 houses a huge improvement. There are sidequests which take a while to complete. Like? Apart from poes and bugs. I agree that dungeons 8 and 9 are small.But other 3 aren't that small. You don't think 6 was small? Please. Maybe 7 was fairly big but that's it. If the travel times where big you'd probably start moaning about them. No I wouldn't. I'd feel the developers took a long time planning things out as opposed to the rushed mess we got now. It's like that in other Zeldas aswell.Nothing new. So? You'd think the developers would have learned by now. There are a lot of note-worthy characters. Like? I had no problem with the camera. I did. That's because in MM you had a time limit,there isn't one here so you don't get the same urgency feeling. Just because there's no time limit doesn't mean you can't show urgency. No one in castle town seemed to know anything about what was going wrong. They were more scared of a wolf walking about than what engulfed Hyrule castle. Apart from the twilight which disappeared fairly quickly in the game, there was no sense of anything wrong with Hyrule. Everyone was happy, getting on with their lives etc... No sense of danger like when you stepped out of the temple of time after the 7 year period in OoT. To start,get stronger,get out the twilight realm,get the Tri-Force,take over hyrule,take over both realms. But we didn't know ANY of that until the last battle. And you're making up most of them anyway. He never made any of it clear. Exaggerated saying it was a big mistake.We were aware of the problem for quite a while so it didn't matter if they meet earlier.What would of changed at the end?Maybe Ganon saying "You again!" It's no big deal It was a big mistake, big rule of bad guys: have them meet the main character before the final showdown. Didn't happen and as such there was no tension or drama in the final battle because it was forgetful and didn't amount to much + no good dialogue from boss. Referring to Link as 'your little friend'? Dear god. Is that the reputation Link/I have earned by playing through 40 hours? Really beggining to nitpick now. No I'm not, the second half of the game feels very rushed. As MANY people have said in this thread. You really sound like you wanted another OOT I wanted a game as special and magical as OoT. We didn't get it. Exaggerated again,picks up and looks at once per Rupee apart from green until you switch it off. Nope, always keeps happening. Again as has been complained about many times in this thread. Again exaggerated a bit by saying "no where".Windfall there's barely anything,there is Grannies house,a little forest and a T-Force map.Windfall isn't "cool" enough to be no where near Castle Town. You're thinking about Outset Island. I mean the big bustling Windfall with loads to do. Same with Clock Town. No,they would of planned the story and key events and then worked around them untill they all fit in. Nah they made the majority of it up as they went along. I'm convinced the final boss was thrown in at the last minute. The only game I would say that had harder bosses was MM.Bosses were easy in OOT and MM. True, but you'd think they would have learned by now. 2 Points here.1)We were'nt promised it would take 70 hours 2)It would maybe take 70 hours to complete the whole game including all the sidequests. Sidequests in TP add about 5 hours if that to the main quest. You honestly think it would take 35 hours to collect a few more bugs and poes? And even if it did, BOOORRRINGGG. I'm talking about proper sidequests. Really exaggerated again surprisingly.There was much more than a fighiting room and a waterfall.Have you actually played it? What was there then? A couple of small lakes for the Zoras to swim in, and a death "mountain" trail? Both graveyards.Just about no difference between each other apart one having a grave digger.There almost on the same level but not no where different.I mean I might be wrong,was one tombstone cooler than one on TP? Lots to do in OoT graveyard, nothing to do in TP one except what the story dictates. They usually are. Once again you'd think they would have learned - It's not the same place as it was in OOT.If you took enough time to explore you would know that there is thing's to do. I did explore, there's one cave, and the dungeon (which again takes all of 5 minutes to get into). I'm not talking about heart pieces. I'm talking about cool things like there were in OoT. There was good cut scenes after temple 4 No there wasn't. At the end of the day,you seriously exaggerate your complaints. And you seriously find it impossible to admit that there are many flaws with the game. I haven't rushed through the game at all, I've taken time out to do what little sidequests there are. Better graphics, after 10 years you'd expect better graphics. But graphics don't make a game as we all know. better sound, That's hilarious. You actually think that the noise in TP is better than OoT music? Both background music and Ocarina tunes? What a joke. better gameplay. Nup, again I disagree hugely. OoT was epic, had a great story, had a fascinating time traveling dynamic and it felt like an achievement when you beat Ganon. It had character, soul and it was fun. OoT is horrible to play now. Greatest game of all time. Just because the graphics are poor doesn't make it horrible.
Cube Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 About characters: Well, there is obviously Minda, who goes from childish, non-caring and mysterious, but the generosity of Zelda makes her look at the world in a whole new way - and she keeps developing (and gets closer and closer to link along the way), and her departure makes much more sense than Navi, and was much more emotional. (Navi's departure in OoT seemed like "Job done. Screw you Link, I'm off"). And theres Link himself. He seems to be much more emotional than even in WW, and expresses himself greatly in Wolf form (a gromit-like effect). And Link seemed to grow (mentally) throughout the game (something I felt was missing from WW - he seemed to be childish in character all the way through). Other characters are great too, In Kakariko Village, there may be only 3 residents, plus some gorons later on, but the bomb-shop owner seemed to have more personality than the whole of Kakariko Village in OoT. I just loved him in every scene. TBH, the shaman was a bit weak, and you hardly ever saw his daughter. Also, the children themselves develop, too. Mainly Colin, Beth, and the great Malo. It was also great to see Rusl from Ordon in his later appearance. Illia is great to start off with - her annoyance with Link and Bo at the start is great, and the whole memory-finding sequence was great (loves Impaz, too). Telma is another fantastic character - and her "suggestive" looks (and links reactions) are great - she also appears to be the last female Gerudo left (albeit only half) which makes since (with the locking up of their only male). Her cat is great, too. And then theres Yeto and Yeta. Possibly the best "dungeon keepers" of all time. And the transformation because of the shard is great. I just love the both of them. Speaking of bosses, some of them are made much better by Nintendo giving them a few lines - The goron mini-boss and the King Bulbin is great recurring-boss. The "serve the stronger side" sentence is great. The "group" that save Hyrule were a bit disappointing - I was annoyed when they showed up to "save" link (The threat didn't seem good enough to require them). I haven't even mentioned all of the memorable ones yet. (and yes, I've already posted this) edit: And he's right about OoT - it hasn't really aged well (like GoldenEye), Playing Mario 64 on the VC made me realise that OoT and MM aren't really what the used to me...
motion Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 About characters: Well, there is obviously Minda, who goes from childish, non-caring and mysterious, but the generosity of Zelda makes her look at the world in a whole new way - and she keeps developing (and gets closer and closer to link along the way), and her departure makes much more sense than Navi, and was much more emotional. (Navi's departure in OoT seemed like "Job done. Screw you Link, I'm off"). And theres Link himself. He seems to be much more emotional than even in WW, and expresses himself greatly in Wolf form (a gromit-like effect). And Link seemed to grow (mentally) throughout the game (something I felt was missing from WW - he seemed to be childish in character all the way through). Other characters are great too, In Kakariko Village, there may be only 3 residents, plus some gorons later on, but the bomb-shop owner seemed to have more personality than the whole of Kakariko Village in OoT. I just loved him in every scene. TBH, the shaman was a bit weak, and you hardly ever saw his daughter. Also, the children themselves develop, too. Mainly Colin, Beth, and the great Malo. It was also great to see Rusl from Ordon in his later appearance. Illia is great to start off with - her annoyance with Link and Bo at the start is great, and the whole memory-finding sequence was great (loves Impaz, too). Telma is another fantastic character - and her "suggestive" looks (and links reactions) are great - she also appears to be the last female Gerudo left (albeit only half) which makes since (with the locking up of their only male). Her cat is great, too. And then theres Yeto and Yeta. Possibly the best "dungeon keepers" of all time. And the transformation because of the shard is great. I just love the both of them. Speaking of bosses, some of them are made much better by Nintendo giving them a few lines - The goron mini-boss and the King Bulbin is great recurring-boss. The "serve the stronger side" sentence is great. The "group" that save Hyrule were a bit disappointing - I was annoyed when they showed up to "save" link (The threat didn't seem good enough to require them). I haven't even mentioned all of the memorable ones yet. (and yes, I've already posted this) edit: And he's right about OoT - it hasn't really aged well (like GoldenEye), Playing Mario 64 on the VC made me realise that OoT and MM aren't really what the used to me... Out of your list.... Characters Midna and Link don't apply. You just put them there to make the list of characters seem longer. Children and Illia are fine. Bomb shop owner wasn't anything special. Shaman was crap. Telma fair enough. Yeto and Yeta?? Scraping the bottom of the barrell aren't we? They were in the game for a couple of hours, for one dungeon. And that's it. Bosses don't count and the group is alright but hardly anything special. You haven't mentioned the memorables yet?? Who would they be then??
Dante Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 To me the best Zelda series characters are; TP characters > MM characters > WW characters > OoT characters.
Jasper Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Man, the collection replies are really growing (and my scrolling finger is slowly dieing away, thanks to you guys). I personally think that Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask have aged extremely well. They are still a pleasure to play and the graphics don't look all to horrible to be honest. Let's face it, games looked worse once upon a time. i think it looks good enough for me not to be annoyed by the graphics. There are some memorable characters, though they don't pop up everywhere in the game. I loved Zant (and his indeniable madness), Yeti and Yeti were incredibly nice and cute - there's no denying they really made the game look really funny. Illia is a great character too and the kids, well, they're the kids and have a memorable personality. I think that's a good heap of memorable characters, and I haven't mentioned Zelda or ... The Final Nemesis, to avoid spoiler tags (take that, nasty, bloody spoiler-tags!).
ShadowV7 Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 I'll do another long quoted post tomorrow,can't be bothered just now. Though i'll admit TP isn't perfect and it does has flaws as will probably every other game. Yea you got me on the island thing I mixed them up
motion Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Fair enough, but with Zelda games you expect a certain amount of quality that was missing from TP I feel.
EchoDesiato Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 To me the best Zelda series characters are; TP characters > MM characters > WW characters > OoT characters. I'll have to agree on that.
motion Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 Well since TP hardly has any cool characters at all... OoT > WW > MM > TP for me
fanman Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 after 10 years you'd expect better graphics. But graphics don't make a game as we all know. But it does make for improvement. And looking at TP is better than looking at OoT. That's hilarious. You actually think that the noise in TP is better than OoT music? Both background music and Ocarina tunes? What a joke. I actually meant better quality sound, as in sound effect and clarity. Nup, again I disagree hugely. OoT was epic, had a great story, had a fascinating time traveling dynamic and it felt like an achievement when you beat Ganon. It had character, soul and it was fun. I was refering to the analogue stick of the n64. It was horrible to control. The camera was a hell of a lot worse than in TP, and movement was often hampered by the two. Greatest game of all time. Just because the graphics are poor doesn't make it horrible. Yeah, if you completed it when it came out. Take your head out of the sand: If you got someone new to Zelda to play the two of them today, I doubt they'd prefer OoT.
The Peeps Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 OoT and MM are still fantastic games imo and I have no problem playing through them again. TP is a brilliant game too but I agree that there isn't a sense of urgency about the game. Once you save the surrounding areas from the twilight and refill lake hylia, those characters are pretty much fine - fair enough. In Castle Town I thought they'd be a bit more worried about what was going on in the castle but I suppose they were shrouded in Twilight when Zant took over and then they snapped out of it without knowing anything has happened. The guards could have kept anyone from going to the castle though the citizens should still be curious about the huge thing surrounding the castle. It annoys me that you don't really get any credit for anything you do in the later dungeons and that makes it feel like a more selfish quest in my opinion. Link and Midna go around collecting things to make themselves (well, Midna) more powerful so they can save the Twilight Realm. Most of the things you do has to be done in secret, although sometimes it's because you have to be a wolf. Overall I'm happy with TP, it could never live up to all the hype that was created for it - nothing could, but for me it easily holds it's own against OoT and MM. OoT > MM / TP > WW
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