ghost_zero

Well if you ask me: Only the character models aren't completely well done (at least for some, e.g. Sheena really seems a not well done, especially her face at the picture where you see her alone; the new girl however seems to be done better). At least not yet. Maybe they will improve them until the launch - the game got delayed after all. However, some things (especially in games) can't be really compared through screens. You need to see them in motion and if you ask me most of "Tales of" - games are such "things". Regarding click and run worldmap: That wouldn't be a problem as long as it would mean you would control the char like you do it in Zack & Wiki but why did they more or less completely wipe out the ability to really explore the world itself? That is the only thing I currently really dislike about this game. Also: Is there known what that "things" are that Loyd and the new girl (always forget her name ) are holding?

I never thought that this game would make it to Europe ... Especially it is more or less pretty fast coming out here - especially if I compare it to other games like e.g. Smash Bros. Brawl or Super Paper Mario.

Regarding another site Nintendo said no regarding any price drops (however, if I remember correctly other manufacturers have said so before shortly before a price drop). Though I don't think there will be a price drop and if, it sure won't be 100 €.

Is there anyone who already confirmed if this game works with the Wii FreeLoader or not - though I think it very likely works with it, I would like to verify?

IS there already known if this game will come out in Europe too? If so, will this be also this year or next year?

I think the UNWANTED problems can only occur with external region games regarding updates because they could e.g. interfer with the European firmware. Not regarding European games. For European games you shall only use the alternative, selective update method to avoid making the FreeLoader useless because of some firmware update... Btw. is there already known if Baroque will work with the FreeLoader..? Because currently I think it is not even known if that game will come out in Europe at all...

@Tales: You probably can't say for sure but I can tell you what I got from Datel as answer to my last mail to them (maybe this helps you to decide): I am still not completely sure, how they determine those parts a.s.o. but regarding that it should work (but of course, I guess only time will tell)...

Of course, it isn't as simple. It was more of an example. But it isn't as easy probably to block the FreeLoader from Game updates on disks - online updates will be a different part. As said Firmware-Updates for Wii aren't the same as Firmware-Updates are normally. (Just read also the part I will write @Gizmo). And I ONLY meant US/JP games (with older games), not European games (European shouldn't be a problem at all, of course not as your Wii is European). Of course, VC games and WiiWare titles might become a problem as the Shop-Channel might require firmware updates... @Gizmo: Normally not BUT with the Wii it is like this. It keeps all old firmwares too. Just look at wiibrew.org regarding IOS37 if you don't believe me. IT keeps the WHOLE firmwares. And you either load the complete old or complete new firmware. Not just some lines of it. And you can tell the Wii system which firmware it shall use. At least for the most parts of it. That is mainly done for compitability with games (the often need an older firmware to run). So the point is as long as the Wii will use an older Firmware for the system there shouldn't be any problem with the FreeLoader at least for games it already worked with... AND I think the FreeLoader tells the Wii to use the older Firmware for the system after the update (of course, I am not sure though). The game itself would load the new Firmware though but it would be only the game itself... But if it really does it do like this is another question (it should be possible though as this is a Wii feature regarding updates). One thing is for sure though, it does not just update, it does a bit more (but probably not to much)... EDIT: Anyway it doesn't really matter that much. Even if it is the way I think it is, Nintendo can still block it, if they want and if not it will be better anyway (however, they could still block it by blocking other things for the Wii like they did with the GameCube FreeLoader and Modchips)... We will find out about this in the future anyway...

@Rummy: Do you mean me? You could think about it as if you add new page to a book but all old pages are still there. Yet the reader (which is the Wii) only reads the old pages (old firmware) but not the new one, as he doesn't know about that page (well he does know about it but isn't told to read them to be more precisely). Only certain games (readers who know about the new pages) will request those new pages. I know this example is not the best but that more or less is what e.g. IOS37 is about and I guess that might be the way the FreeLoader does firmware updates... It is just that way. Updates are installed but installing alone doesn't mean the get used by the Wii system (that's e.g. IOS37, it got installed on US Wiis but they still only load IOS30; only certain games load IOS37). The point is that the Wii itself does it that way (to be compatible with games that need an older firmware). The only thnk it might update too, is that it lets the system load the new firmware too and not only the games. And no the alternative update method is no normal update method, otherwise the booklet (see first page here; also regarding this it says to only avoid online updates) wouldn't recommend to use that method even for European disks. It either doesn't install certain updates at all (what I don't think) or it does it the way I explained above WHICH is what the Wii does itself, only that normally the Wii system would be informed about the "new pages". @Hellfire: It most likely won't work for future games (at least know if Nintendo plans to add additional protections on the game disks themselves, it isn't very likely - at least as long as you don't do any online updates AND if the FreeLoader does the alternative update method, the way I think it does - though I am not completely sure here), HOWEVER it will probably keep working with games it already worked with, as long as you don't update the Wii online. I am not saying the FreeLoader will work indefinitally, however I am thinking about the way it can/could work during the alternative upgrade process and in that case it would be most likely to at least keep working with all games it already worked before (if It does it the way, I guess it does). Btw.: If you ask me Datel might would be able to get an official license from Nintendo for the FreeLoader, if they would want it - that way would be the coolest, because in that case Nintendo would need to keep the FreeLoader working, even after Firmware updates However, they haven't and therefore, nothing is certain...

No, Datel said to use the second method (and that only for updating the Firmware before you can play the game normally) as it does not just install everything. It installs updates but tries to bypass probelms with the FreeLoader that might occur from such updates... Especially because some games require those updates to even work and therefore you will definitally need to install them. However, that method is called alternative, selective upgrade method BUT as I mentioned I believe it still installs everything BUT doesn't allow those updates to be loaded which is a normal Wii feature, like with IOS37 in the US, it got installed and every game can used BUT the Wii system itself doesn't use it (at least not now) AND I guess that is the same thing the FreeLoader does... Which is you could call it selectively install required updates as only the required updates will then get loaded by the game itself (however only by that game and nothing else)... Btw. that way is also the only way to avoid troubles with e.g. required US/JP firmware updates. I mean if you need to update because of a new US/JP game you will eventually run into problems, if this update gets loaded by the Wii system BUT as long as it gets added only but not loaded by the Wii system there shouldn't be any real problems... I don't think that there is much more possible. Only thing I could further imagine would be that the game itself has categories for needed and optional firmware updates BUT that would be STRANGE, as it installs all of them anyway normally.... OF COURSE, that is only what I think but it makes the most sense and as said Datel said to use the alternative, selective update method for European games too BUT only for the updates, afterwards you can use the game just fine the normal way (and I think regarding this it is most likely to be the way I mentioned above). You can also read this on the first page here...

It does... However it is more likely to be that way... I mean to identify which updates are needed and which not, isn't that easy - not to mention that required updates could block the FreeLoader too. You can also put it into the context I think it is, e.g. if they mean with installing that they get loaded with the Wii directly - well that's won't be many updates that need to be loaded with the Wii System BUT of course, I have not developed it and so I don't completely know but if you ask me it is not really possible to detect REALLY necessary updates becasue probably for the game all the updates on the disk are necessary to bypass the update procedure (at least I would think it is so).

Well if you ask me that is not really what the FreeLoader does to ensure that further it will keep working after those updates. The main point probably is HOW the Wii handles updates here. All updates get added to the Wii BUT won't loaded unless you tell the Wii that it should load them or that the game itself loads them because needed. So those method probably still installs ALL updates. However, it won't let the Wii load system updates e.g. because if needed the games will load them theirselves AND so the risk for updates to stop the FreeLoader from working is nearly zero (of course, not completely zero because e.g. the could hide an update somewhere that gets installed later or whatsoever); however the most probably worst case scenario is that newer games might stop to work with the FreeLoader because the need to use the newer Firmware-Updates. However, even that is unlikely because the FreeLoader gets loaded BEFORE the game (at least not as long as the game doesn't some additional checking too). That is also explained on wiibrew.org regarding the IOS37 update. The update indeed would block the FreeLoader IF that update would get loaded by the Wii system BUT it doesn't as the Wii is told to still only load IOS30, only games currently might load IOS37 - however as said they load that update AFTER the FreeLoader got loaded already and therefore I think it is still unlikely that it wouldn't work, but at least already working games WOULD continue to work.

e.g. in versus you can't unlock and also it is not really coop and if what I read is correct you can play versus only for one track not for the whole GP (at least regarding offline it seems to be so).

From what I know the 4 player splitscreen is VS plus CPUs (as you can add CPUs now to VS). You could say it more or less is GP but e.g. from what I read you can only play single tracks that way and no whole GPs. Not to mention that you wouldn't really play them coop (as this is VS). Also I believe to have read that the coop GP is indeed possible BUT only online. I guess we will see after the release....

I will wait until there is known what the offline multplayer includes and what not. I mean if it really doesn't have multiplayer GP, the game is nearly completely uinteresting for me...

I just hope they will add the GP multiplayer and improve the other offline multiplayer as well before the game gets released because otherwise the game isn't nearly as interesting anymore (especially if I think about that i nearly never play games online)...

The update itself doesn't block anything. However, the point is the update itself would include the possibility to block the FreeLoader IF it would be active. The point is though it isn't active. A few thoughts regarding this: Which is kinda interesting, as they could have activated it already. In that case it more or less is a warning for e.g. Datel to prepare an update version before the FreeLoader gets blocked (if it is possible at all afterwards). The main point why such a possibilty occurs that fast is because the same "weak point" the FreeLoader uses to allow itself to load, had been used by Trucha Signer (to allow unsigned disks to load - though from what I know you still would need a modchip) sometime before the FreeLoader got released.

I already had no space some time now. I have no problem with putting them on SD cards (I don't need a HD) - especially if they would allow bigger SD cards than 2GB (they are not that expensive anymore). However, I would like it to be able to load them from the SD card then. And also I am now a bit off-topic

That I think is kinda cool because I don't really need the online updates. I just need the games to work. It would be only problematic regarding Virtual Console and WiiWare games if the shop channel would need an update - but first their was just an update regarding this (and also such updates probably wouldn't effect the FreeLoader - and also I could wait a bit in that case until an updated FreeLoader comes out which I could then get for free from Datel Btw. as there still is no release date for Tales of Symphonia 2 that is probably another game I will import (if it works with the FreeLoader though I don't see any reason for games to don't work with it; only after Firmware updates - which should be no problem because of the alternative update method)

No it wasn't an april's fool or to be more exact it was a bit of an april fool as they haven't told at the beginning (at least didn't clarify it) that the update won't block anything. The update only adds the new System-Firmware to the Wii but it didn't tell the Wii to use the new one and therefore it is not activate and the Wii system won't use it (only games can load it but that won't effect the FreeLoader as that one gets loaded before the game and therefore the new update). The point is that a firmware update doesn't replace the old firmware, it keeps the old firmware and just add the new one. That is for compitability with older games that need the old system to run. The point is each game then uses its own firmware according to what it needs. However, the Wii system itself uses the firmware it gets told to use, e.g. in that case it currently uses IOS30 but there have been newer ones before IOS31, IOS33, IOS34, IOS35, IOS36 and of course now IOS37 (which is the problematic one). As long as there is no update that tells the Wii system to use the new IOS37 there is no problem with it. It is more or less like you add something to the current firmware but say the firmware to don't use it - yet. The question though is why they didn't set that update active, if they already have it? Btw. I guess that this is probably how the alternative, selective update method of the FreeLoader works. It adds those updates to the firmware but doesn't tell the Wii system to activate them and so the FreeLoader will keep working and the games can still use those updates if the need them. That way the FreeLoader would also work after games that needs updates, even if they are from our region - you just should need to use the alternative, selective update method of the FreeLoader for them, instead of updating without the FreeLoader (even for games from our region - this is just for the update part, afterwards it doesn't matter anymore).

I hope they will change that you can't do offline all versus all battle and can't play the grand prix in multiplay anymore... That would just be stupid...

Just don't update The updates from disks shouldn't be a problem because of the alternative, selective update method. It probably adds those updates (as the current update adds the new version) but doesn't change that the update should get used instead of the current system version (as it is with the current IOS37 update, it gets added for games and so but it won't get used, only the IOS30 will get used) and therefore the FreeLoader will keep working as it gets already loaded way before the game.

Hmm... I think the point is that the IOS37 itself doesn't change anything. Currently it only uses IOS30 (for some strange reason as before there was already IOS36). Until that is changed it shouldn't make any difference... Games can swap between those menus though (but as the FreeLoader is loaded before them it shouldn't be a problem until the Wii itself is told to use the IOS37)... EDIT: So if I get this right, the update itself won't break the FreeLoader. It only prepares for blocking it with further updates..? That would be nice though, in that case Datel could prepare a new version before that update gets active, couldn't they?

@marcel: I meant ShadowV7 this time My fault for not putting a @ShadowV7 before... EDIT: Yeah, well both things are kinda strange BUT currently I believe the April's fool more... The news author of n-europe though seems to definitally believe in the April's fool part or did he get an e-mail? EDIT2: OK. I just looked at the Wiki history and regarding that history. According to that the April fools part is vandalism and has been undone again. But what is true though is that even in the US the IOS37 update is not active yet. It is just possible that it might get added through the next update and was prepared beforehand. That would explain why there is no news about not working FreeLoaders though as that update is not active yet and just prepared, however that would be strange itself (if you ask me)...

What don't you believe that it is an april's fool or the news itself? Currently, I am not completely sure what is correct. However, regarding the HTML Code I doubt that it was a modification from another user then the WiiBrew team itself. However, I am still not completely sure. Btw.: Who edited the n-europe.com news regarding this?