Will

It doesn’t sound weird at all, I’m sure there are many people for which this is bringing up similar feelings. It’s super interesting (and very sad) to hear that you put so much of what you experience to the back of your mind to the point you will say you’re lucky, then when explaining it to friends it actually shocks them the things you’ve been through. I hope that this forum is a place you feel you can open up and share these things and gain something from those of us on the other side of things to make a positive difference. I’m quite embarrassed to say my initial reaction to Black Lives Matter was all lives matter, I’m pleased that I had people around me (including here), to point me in the right direction and start taking more meaningful action on things. I agree with you completely on the historical figures thing. It’s so hard to deal with the two sides of the people in question and what the right direction to move in is. One thing I’m sure is that you can’t just erase them from history. We do need to work out the right way to frame the good things with the lessons of the bad, and hopefully use them to be an even better lesson for future generations from all backgrounds. We definitely don’t want to end up in some weird 1984 style scenario where we all pretend nothing bad has ever happened and we’re all equal to the point of having no personality or history at all.

I just don’t get how you can use this one example and claim racism isn’t a problem in either country. Do you think the millions of people getting behind BLM and other initiatives have got it all wrong? I guess if you take the view that police treat black people better than they treat other races then you can make the argument that the law is on your side in issues concerning racism. From what I see it would appear that that is not the case though. In the UK black people are likely to receive longer sentences for the same crime as white people. Where are you taking these stats from? It seems to be a very different position to what is mostly being reported right now. We’ve had generations haven’t we? If you take a generation to be 30 years then that’s 2 (and change) since 1950 and 6 since slavery was abolished in the 1830s. Shouldn’t this be long enough? Is income by race the only measure we need to judge this by? I would disagree that racial barriers to success have been removed simply because you have some examples of some people being able to earn a little more than white people. You’ve taken one data point and declared racism solved. Personally I think that the fact I’m white has been hugely beneficial to me, if only for the reason I’ve never had to worry about this sort of thing. I think the last part of this is quite racist in itself, you’re basically saying some minorities have a cultural problem because of their views on the police - and you think we don’t have an issue with racism? The American Dream for the most part doesn’t exist. Yes it’s technically possible to change your circumstances in a generation, but it’s also possible that you’ll win the lottery - it doesn’t happen for most people. Just because the possibility of something exists doesn’t mean everyone is starting from a level playing field and their are no barriers to success. Just because there may be bigger problems doesn’t mean others don’t exist. From what I can tell those countries have laws against racism, so by your earlier arguments couldn’t you just take it as there are some racist people but it’s not really a problem as the law protects people from it? Of course it’s much worse in those places than the US/UK, but I don’t think you can say we’re doing OK because some other countries are worse. My experience in Japan as a white person was great, I was treated like a VIP by most Japanese people. As a non-Japanese I didn’t always get the same treatment or eligibility for things as I wasn’t entitled to them - that was never related to my race though.

Just finished watching it and found the second episode even better than the first, I’d thoroughly recommend that everyone gives it a watch. I think it confirms a lot of what you’ve been saying, @Rummy - start with self education and build an understanding so that all of us as individuals can play our part in breaking down the barriers we have in society and progressing. I hope that more schools take on this sort of approach of actually talking about these issues and highlighting that racism and privilege exist, even though we think of ourselves as existing in a society that has already dealt with all of these things. Even these kids in a very multiracial school showed biases so for anyone to say society has got racism sorted out is totally bonkers.

I’ve seen the first episode and thought it was great, going to watch the second episode today and come back on here with some comments. My main takeaways so far are they it highlights society in general in a very interesting way, in that nobody sees themselves as a racist and does try to be equal, all while enjoying the benefits that their (white) race brings to them. Really looking forward to the next episode.

Asians in the US also have the highest level of inequality, with most of the wealth seeming to come from foreign born immigrants rather than Americans, (Source). In the UK there seems to be some level of the same thing though less pronounced. In either case the success of one race does not remove the benefit of being white. There is still a level of inequality in both societies that needs to be addressed. An institution is just a collection of people. If enough members of an institution are racist then that institution will be racist too. I think there has been quite a lot of news about the American police recently that would attest to this. You don’t have to have a written agenda of racism for an institution to not be racist. Even just continuing to benefit from previous racist policies should be seen as not doing enough to address the balance. I don’t think anybody should be too proud of the progress that has been made on this. Personally I think if you take the 50’s as the example then the fact we’re as we are now, 70 years later, is pretty shit to be honest. It’s definitely a huge problem, but who’s most likely to be in the worse situation? The histories of each race in Britain are very different and lead to very different positions in society in the present. If we truly had equality then none of these differences would exist. I think you’re just ignoring the issue. Just because we’ve got laws to stop these things doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I also think you’ve misinterpreted your data as for the most part it’s quite clear there is a huge advantage in being white in western society. It’s not about some particular race doing well, it’s about always feeling safe and having whatever opportunity you want - something white people benefit from every day. Which countries would you recommend? I completely agree with the point, just interested who you’d put up as examples.

I definitely see your point here. I would say the issue you run into is having a massively wide definition of what racism is, with a huge overlap on prejudice and I’m not sure you can easily work on either of them like this. By putting power on the other side of the equation you get a clearer delineation between the two and don’t have racism being something any joker can pull up as something they’ve suffered from. This part I don’t think is as valid. On each point: “it doesn't address racism between minorities” - it does, it just defines it as prejudices rather than racism. “we don't need a hierarchy of "Which race has power, in which order?"” - Definitely not, you just need to know who has historical power and continues to benefit from it - it isn’t any of the minorities. “It also promotes the "trap" that minorities can act nasty towards the majority, despite that being a very bad idea for discourse in general” - How exactly does it do that? It’s not saying that all other abuse and prejudice is fine apart from this specific part of it we call racism. It’s all wrong, including this specific part we define as racism. Wouldn’t it be better to acknowledge these differences but for that to be totally OK and not something to judge the character of your person by? If we wipe out recognition of all the differences we have we may as well all go about wearing grey suits being totally boring. At the extreme end I think it would marginalize people even more to get to a point where we just ignore all differences and consider everyone the same. Sorry to hear about how you feel over the past month, @Animal. Do you think the current highlighting of these issues is at least working in a positive way? I think this is quite a common view, but imo wrong. Things were easier to ignore before because things were “fine” - now we’re talking about it and realizing everything isn’t “fine” and it’s quite difficult for a lot of people to come to terms with. All of the initiatives taking place are not about driving divisions. It’s about highlighting differences, educating people and allowing everyone to live together no matter their background or choice of life to lead. It’s very easy to say “I’m not a racist” or “I don’t see colour” or “I don’t judge you by your sexual orientation”, but actually working towards a society where these things don’t matter is not as easy as that. I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said on the topic. I hope more people are starting to think like you after the events of recent months.

Yeah the heat is a real killer. For me it’s not being able to cool down or relax at any point. Still, when the heat goes away you should see some real benefit!

That’s crazy, can’t believe there are people (both the manager and the other staff) with so little awareness of what they’re saying. In Singapore, this goes a step further and is actually part of your official documentation. It then plays into things such as houses you want to buy and other general life things that they decide what you are entitled to based on the race you have documented. I recently registered a child and put their race as “mixed” which was incorrect as that does not exist in their system, you have to pick from 5 or 6 very specific ones they have available with no flexibility. Really annoyed me! I think you’re right in very general terms - it does seem quite unworkable to have a particular word that is OK for one group of people to use and be completely unthinkable for another group. There has to be some consistency in how words can be used even just looking at it from a historical recording perspective. When it comes to this word and the connotations behind it that’s something very difficult to do. I actually quite liked that as a definition. The people in the US/UK who say white people suffer from racism too always sounded a bit ridiculous to me but I didn’t have a good way to say exactly why. Looking at it from this angle gives a good way to see it imo. Living in Asia there are always people defining me by my whiteness in a very casual way that if said to a black person elsewhere I would definitely consider to be racism. The difference is that they hold no power over me and nothing in my life could even come close to being impacted by it. It’s stupid, but it doesn’t make me think I have a reason to say I’ve been racially abused.

I think that’s a pretty good way to go out. Though I did kind of expect they might make that type of match a regular thing to squeeze out a bit more Undertaker action.

New book:

Looking good! I’ve really missed having a bike since I moved here, unfortunately I just wouldn’t get very much use out of one. My training has been pretty inconsistent the last couple of weeks. I’ve been keeping up my distance targets but speed training has gone due to the random times I’ve been running. Anything other than late night / early morning is just too hot to do anything other than jog and hope you make it home. It’s crazy to think that the end of this week will be half way through the year - hope everyone is on track with their schedules.

I just read the overview on Dark and it sounds really good. I watch most of my Netflix with my wife and anything foreign language is kind of difficult, will have to see if I can find time to watch this alone.

That show looked really good and one I’ll definitely check out next time I have a period of being subscribed to the network. Is that immediate or after some upcoming special match?

Let’s hope so! Would be nice to finally be in the same place as each other.

I started thinking on this and had something very specific in my head. Immediately I was thinking of an English person of Indian descent with a big messy beard. I realized I’d recently watched one of your videos from the Covid-19 thread so I’m not sure how fair that is. More generally the name Rummy wouldn’t mean anything to me, I don’t think I’d be able to place that at all. The surname Singh immediately makes me think of a Sikh and for whatever reason that’s a guy in a suit with a turban who’s working in an office.

Keep them coming I say! Not sure if we’ll make it over to Japan this year but definitely planning to go for the Olympics next year (providing it actually happens). Think I’ll add on a trip here at the same time - it’s looking really cool.

I guess this plays off the point of it’s a longer standing problem than any one lifetime. Here it becomes a problem because these things have been “ours” for as long as we remember, and weren’t “stolen” by us therefor we can keep them and others have no right to them. We really need to change our thinking in these areas. I agree it’s a little simple, but as an introduction to white privileged I think it’s a solid and easy to understand demonstration. It does need to be followed up with proper education though. I’d never seen this or heard of him. It’s a very powerful song and must have taken a lot to come out with some of that like that.

I hadn’t seen it before - glad you brought it to my attention. I completely agree with everything she says. I think this is the very difficult thing that we, as white privileged people, need to come to accept and work to change. There was a time where I was very much in the camp of “I wasn’t a slave owner, I’ve never persecuted anyone, I’m a good modern thinking person so what do I have to be sorry for or what change do I need to make”, but this is far too short sighted a view. As she so rightly puts, the game has been rigged in our favour for centuries, and it’s these systems we now need to work on to create a better future for everyone. I hope more people see that video to help them understand how we got to where we are and why the privileged people also have an important role to play in this. Kind of reminded me of this one showing how the advantages we have play into life. Letting go of the advantages we have? That’s going to be really tough.

This one is really interesting. I remember watching it at the time and I was definitely of the view point of a lot of the white people involved - that I don’t need to learn about this stuff and I live my life in the right way - I don’t see these problems so they don’t exist. Watching it again now it says something totally different to me, and it’s what I’ve been getting at in my other comments, that we live in a system that benefits us and it’s too easy to think we do enough and ignore the more difficult aspects or things that would lead to us needing to do anything more than be passively not racist. I think all reasonable (white) people at at least passively not racist, what we need to work out is how to be actively anti-racist, and this is what I find myself personally struggling with at the moment.

I’m not saying that I or any one particular person is going to fix this. We can’t just sit back and think as long as I am not a racist and do everything right then others will follow. People that hold racist views or support systems that enable it are not just going to wake up one day and change their mind. We need to actively do things to bring on that change. Of course that starts with educating yourself and acting accordingly - but it won’t be enough to drive any real change - and isn’t that what this is all about?

Must be tough having to work with such people. Keep up the fight for quality content!

Just finished this and it was another good listen, though maybe a little long for me. Really enjoyed the game boy segment, though I hope Nintendo don’t use that method to choose the games should they decide to go ahead with one. I can’t believe F1 Race was removed though, I loved that game and the four player was mind-blowing at the time!

The thing is I’m just not sure that’s enough anymore. While I don’t expect to turn myself into Jane Elliott, I think we need to do more than being passively non-racist. There are a lot problems endemic in our systems and society that will not change unless we take an active stance in making it happen.

I find the entire quote system to be a pain at the best of times. Yeah that’s another great clip that shows the acknowledgement that nobody wants the situation for themselves but allow it to continue through inaction. Sorry, I didn’t mean that as a “hey black people, tell me how to navigate this situation because I’m too lazy”, I meant it in more of a rhetorical way that despite trying to understand all of this more, I still don’t know the best way to actually participate in improving our society. I think it’s easy to not be actively racist but what’s becoming clear is that it’s not enough. Right now I’m trying to figure out what that means for me and how to be a positive (rather than just neutral) contributor to this cause. I’ve been thinking a lot about how our fundamental systems and players within them are the root cause of these problems and pushing them from the inside is a way to effect real change. Considering looking into how to become politically active to drive things forward.

Definitely agree with this one, absolutely love this show. Here it’s what we put on when we just want some background noise and it still usually pulls me in and I forget whatever it was I was meant to be doing. I’m not sure you can count it as classic though - the most recent series is only a few years old. After the controversy over particular a particular episode I watched some Fawlty Towers a few nights ago and it’s brilliant. Others I’d recommend would be: Only Fools and Horses The Likely Lads Auf Wiedersehen, Pet The Brittas Empire Goodnight Sweetheart Men Behaving Badly Red Dwarf Quite want to go back and watch a few of those again myself.