Grazza

I'm amazed by the cel-shading in this game. I know it's sad, but I decided to count the layers! I was playing Wind Waker last night (which I love) and I could only see one layer of shading. In the Punch Out trailer though, I know the training scenes are probably just cut-scenes, but I'm sure I can count four layers of shading in some of them (as well as the base colour)!

I'm in exactly the same position. I won't buy one until there's guaranteed to be some good downloadable games (like SNES games, Four Swords or anything really great), but I do want to take advantage of the offer. I don't like the colours either, but I might be swayed to get a white one. Shame we never get blue ones at launch.

And me! I honestly had no interest in the DSi, but the quality of the downloads makes all the difference. I agree with ShadowV7, I'd love it to be able to play SNES games, as Super Metroid was never adapted for GBA, and the 2D Metroids fit handhelds like a glove. This is probably no help, but I find the Game Boy Micro the best machine to play GBA games.

The entire Dragon Quest VIII soundtrack is stunningly beautiful, but I find "Over the Sorrow" in particular more moving than I can explain:

Well, somewhat. Metal Gear Solid and ICO make you question your willingness to use violence, and the former (although gratuitous at times) might actually make you replay it more stealthily to avoid harming anyone at all (apart from the bosses). Shadow of the Colossus also makes you question the wisdom of your actions (though this does not affect the gameplay). I should say I don't really have a problem with violence, but if it's gratuitous, I find it a turn-off. Not to be patronising, but for the sake of clarity, I define that as: a) unnecessary, b) overly graphic, c) features the "pleasure" of violence for its own sake or d) is a selling-point of the game. I think it's fair to apply most of those to HotD: Overkill and MadWorld. I don't criticise anyone who just wants to play a good game, but these two Sega titles could appear a bit adolescent to some.

I give them 10/10 for presentation - the scenes with Little Mac training are amongst the best graphics I've ever seen. I'm deeply sceptical about the motion control though. Without MotionPlus, I just don't see how it can be any better than Wii Sports Boxing. I know you can use classic control, but motion control is the whole reason people thought of Punch Out re-emerging for the Wii. Using classic control, it might as well have been released on GameCube! It's still good to have the option though - that's the way forward.

I'm not going to write off Mad World being a success, because I don't think it's been out long enough, but I still say not everyone likes violence. The mainstream gamer may very well like violence, but no amount of it will tear them away from their HD consoles. I can't believe people are still equating "adult" and "mature" with violent and gory. Zelda and Metroid aren't gratuitously violent, are they? Maybe if someone made something a bit more like those, or Shadow of the Colossus, the sensible, "keen" gamer would be a bit more interested.

Let's hope Wii Sports Resort doesn't end up as the big Christmas game this year. Stranger things have happened.

Animal Crossing for DSi is not a bad guess at all, as I'm sure I remember the game's creator saying there could possibly be two on DS. Combine that with the fact that Wild World sold well and they want people to buy the DSi, and I would say this is not unlikely at all. My theory is they want to push the DSi, so I'm expecting a big DSi exclusive. I'm hoping for Metroid Dread, but it'll probably be a new Brain Training or something similar. There is also a small chance that rumour about a DSi-exclusive Zelda was true. After all, Phantom Hourglass was revealed at GDC a few years ago. They will also want to show developers the benefits of MotionPlus. I predict they'll show the other sports of Wii Sports Resort, but I'd love to see Zelda or Kid Icarus too.

I actually prefer Wii Fit to the Halo series (although neither is as good as a really traditional game like Zelda or Metroid). The main reason I like Wii Fit is that the Balance Board is really good. It impressed me in a way the accelerometers don't and not even the infra-red pointing does, in all honesty. So, a great peripheral with a game that makes good use of it... It's my favourite "Blue Ocean" game (or whatever the phrase is), and thus deserves the success. Now, as to whether it's good or bad for the industry, I think it's pretty neutral. As long as Halo, Zelda etc still sell decent amounts, there is still a big enough audience for them.

Phantom Hourglass was revealed at GDC, which wasn't bad.

Regarding GDC, I assume they really want to push the DSi, so I'm excpecting a big DSiWare exclusive or a big game with DSi features. I'm hoping for Metroid Dread. On the Wii, I think we'll see the other sports in Wii Sports Resort.

I love Majora's Mask. It has the exact same tone, atmosphere and magic as Ocarina of Time (and then some). Those are the real Gorons, the real Zoras, the real Dodongos... It also strikes the perfect balance between the new and the familiar. It's a good thing that Ganon and Hyrule aren't in it, and Zelda not much. On the other hand, the game does feature all the technical things we've become accustomed to, like shield control, the Mirror Shield, Fire, Ice and Light Arrows etc, which is also a good thing. Why throw away evolution? Yes, design is about trying new things, but it's also about keeping the best bits. This is the perfect way to make two Zeldas for one machine. The 1st should have a new engine for a new machine. The 2nd should use the same engine, but be more diverse with the story, characters and setting. I'm hoping we can get back to this method for the Wii 2.

Yeah, that's along the right lines, with the contrast given by the shading. The tunic is definitely a good shade of green, although I'd prefer some lighter colours as well. Some of my favourite graphics on Wii are those of No More Heroes and Punch Out, especially the latter. Both apply cel-shading to adult character models and have varied colour palettes too. Mad World has something to teach about shading and contrast too, although I wouldn't like Zelda taken to that extreme. I also love the visuals of Super Mario Galaxy - not cel-shaded, but still cartoony, with a gorgeous colour palette. I should also give a nod to Dragon Quest VIII on the PS2. A combination of those games (visually) would be ideal. I definitely think Zelda should strive to be cartoony. My preference is for cel-shading - there's just something about it that I love, even though I can't quite put my finger on it. The reason I like cartoony visuals in general is that they draw the important features, but deliberately leave out the unimportant. Whereas realistic graphics are totally objective, cartoons are subjective, and leave room for interpretation. Striking the perfect balance is the job of many an artist. How much detail to put in? How much to leave out?

LOL, well done! I read a letter on GameCentral recently very much along the same lines. What was it about this game that took you that amount of time?

So true, and it fits in with "upgrading Link". I prefer this to the Pegasus Boots, as you don't have to hold down a button and you can change direction. Maybe they could have Boots that perform like Bunny Ears rather than Pegasus Boots, if you know what I mean? Yeah, Ocarina of Time definitely had the best version of Stalfos. This is very true. Designers should not be scared of barren landscapes, especially with the good draw-distances we have these days. It worked for Wind Waker and Shadow of the Colossus. True. Indeed. These relaxing, rural areas are extremely important. I can hear the music now! Yes, they are exotic, and I'd like to see how they could be realised with today's technology. I agree with mixing the styles of WW and TP. I keep thinking they should apply cel-shading to realistic, adult character models, but have stronger contrast than Wind Waker and darker colours. I don't want a darker game, just a very wide pallet of colours. I agree, especially if they were entirely computer-controlled with flawless A.I. Here's another one I forgot: Great Fairies - It was a great thrill to find Great Fairy Grotto in OoT of WW, especially in Wind Waker as you saw the "shell shape" on the horizon. Then you'd go in and wonder which part of you she'd upgrade! I know some people don't want the same game over and over again, but I just think it's enjoyable to see the things we love updated every console generation.

Just a quick tip: don't forget to play the Song of Time backwards to slow time down. Then warp to Snowpeak, enter the dungeon and you should easily have enough time.

Ah, thanks! I actually created it because you said you appreciated people making threads! The Spinner is great fun. I wouldn't mind it kept in Twilight Princess though, as it's very environment-dependent and not really an upgrade to Link. Still great though. The Ball & Chain was intentionally unwieldy, so whilst I didn't mind it, I could do without it. It did add a certain panic though, as you had to find the balance between building up momentum and releasing it before those ice creatures froze you! I definitely like three swords and three shields. The two-handed swords are indeed great fun. I think you are right. I keep thinking "Dragon's Lair" - not necessarily in a negative way, but I think a lot of emphasis is going to be put on the presentation. We already have a hint that they want people to be able to watch it like a cartoon or film. I always see the Master Sword as not necessarily the strongest, but the only one that can seal away evil. I see the Biggoron's Sword etc as stronger but more unwieldy, like the Megaton Hammer, and I think that adds a little something to the tactics of the game. Ah, well I never. Thanks for the info about the Iron Knuckle too. I remember the first time it started walking towards me in OoT. It's way too strong to attack directly, but you have enough time to try out different tactics. Sheer brilliance! Very good point. You have the strong, brutish Moblins. Then you have the weaker but more common Bokoblins. Then the even weaker Miniblins, but who only ever attack in packs. Above them, you have the Darknuts and Wizzrobes, who are like a personal guard to Ganon.

I've been replaying Wind Waker recently, and I also had a run around Twilight Princess last night and I was thinking what things I'd like kept in the next game. I don't mind what the story is or whether it's cel-shaded or realistic, it's mainly technical things I'm thinking about here (but also some non-technical). By the way, I'm generally categorising them by the 3D game I first remembered them being implemented in, but my memory's not perfect! Also, I've left off the really, really obvious things like arrows, bombs and boomerang. Link to the Past Automatic Armour Upgrades - I would like to get back to the idea of having upgraded armour that was comprehensively better than Link's green outfit and had no drawbacks (unlike the fire-weak Zora outfit in TP). This would be automatic, like LttP and unlike OoT. Link could go from traditional green outfit, then to blue and eventually to a light chainmail. Ocarina of Time (and earlier games) Power Bracelet - One of the appealing things about this item is that it has more recently been an automatic upgrade rather than something you have to equip. Throwing huge rocks out of the way is one of the highlights of Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker for me! It's satisfying to feel Link is stronger than he was at the beginning, and is even more so a great way of allowing you access to previously restricted places. Fire, Ice and Light Arrows - I'm a fan of the items that upgrade Link (like the Power Bracelet), rather than "sidestep" items. Much fun can be having experimenting with the physics these items provide, burning curtains and freezing Wizzrobes! Mirror Shield - I really enjoy the progression of going from Wooden, Hylian and then to the Mirror Shield. The multi-mirror puzzle in Wind Waker has to be one of the best. I believe MotionPlus could allow us this item back, because it'll be like having a 2nd analogue stick again. Majora's Mask Full 3D Towns - I loved the towns in this game (and Wind Waker). Zooming the camera out into a near-overhead view just ruins the immersion. Tingle - He just sets the right tone! Wind Waker 1st-Person View Any Time - In Wind Waker, you can flip into 1st-person perspective any time you like, whichever building you're in, whatever you want to examine. Full 3D Environments - Wind Waker is still the most technically amazing Zelda, I feel. When you're in many of the buildings, you can see the 3D world calculated outside as you look out the windows. Camera Control - OK, this one's a long shot, but with MotionPlus, I feel a button could be held down and the remote could enter "2nd analogue stick emulation mode". Using Enemies' Weapons - It was so much fun to pick up an enemy's sword or staff and throw it back at them or use it to cut down down a doorway or column. Like the fire and ice arrows, this just gives a sense of physics-based "play". It felt like real progression. Automatic Sword and Shield Upgrades - The Mirror Shield and Master Sword are comprehensively better than the previous models, so why would we need the option to equip the older ones? Deku Leaf - A brilliant way to get to secret areas. It's a thrill when you see somewhere you might be able to glide to and then you actually can! Moblins - Perfected in Wind Waker. Wizzrobes - Introduced in Majora's Mask, perfected in Wind Waker. Darknuts - These were good in all the games, but Wind Waker's are probably my favourites. I would like the axe ones from Ocarina too. Twilight Princess Bomb-Arrows - This should be one of five types of arrow, in my opinion. Great fun to blast rocks out of the way. Aquatic Bombs - Simply very useful. Clawshot - Simple and a brilliant evolution. Beast Riding - In the next game, I'd like Link to be able to climb onto whatever creature is around, whether that's Epona, a boar, a dragon or an eagle. Shield Bashing - When playing Wind Waker recently, I really miss being able to bash the enemy with my shield! No bad comment on Wind Waker, of course, but it shows it was a good addition. Swordfighting Moves - Helm Splitter, Back Slice and all the others, especially the Finishing Move. That's the other thing I really want to do in Wind Waker now. Phantom Hourglass Infinite Wallet - Because we really, really don't need the two "rupee" problems of Twilight Princess back! Anyway, I'll call it a day for now! I really think a technically-brilliant game will make for a most satisfying experience.

I picked up FFXII: Revenant Wings tonight (£10 from the bargain bin in Currys - they had a lot too). Hope it's good!

If you ever get the N64 version again, or the Wii 2 can emulate it perfectly, it's well worth getting into. The secret is to think of it as lots of separate "missions". For example, use one of your 3-day cycles to find and complete the mini-dungeon. Then use the next 3-day cycle to go straight to the "big" dungeon and go for it. It's really about making sure at the end of each 3-day cycle, you've learnt a new song, got an item that doesn't disappear when you travel back in time or just completed a side-quest. Also, you can hit an Owl statue if you're making good progress and you want to save your game exactly where you are. Nonetheless, I do have to take a whole 10% off perfection because I didn't think the final dungeon fitted into the time limit very well. Genius, but flawed genius! I completed it and I thought the computer-controlled partners and photography elevated it above average, but other than that...nah. LOL, now that's what I call incorrect expectations! Seriously, I still think Donkey Kong could work in 3D. Jungle Beat had exactly the right idea (although it was 2D) - Donkey Kong as this simple, brutish ape (though not evil, obviously). They need to make a really good, fluid 3D engine where Donkey Kong can run, swing and climb, fighting evil gorillas, crocodiles and other beasts! This is one game that doesn't need to be a collect-a-thon!

Excellent thinking! Yes, I think you are right too, Emasher. (Wind Waker spoilers ahead.) How about this? Great Fish Isle housed a Water Temple of some kind. Dragon Roost Island was like Goron City, and that's where the Goron Special Crop grew (as it did in the finished game, even though the Gorons weren't there). However, this would still be one of the pre-Master Sword Dungeons. The later, co-op dungeon with the Goron helper would have been Fire Mountain (that you need the ice arrow to get into). Remember, in Ocarina of Time, there are at least two peaks to the mountain range - Dodongo's Cavern and the Fire Temple- plus there's Goron City. Therefore, there are two peaks in Wind Waker. So basically, my theory is the original game was meant to go: 1. Forest Haven/Forbidden Forest 2. Dragon Roost Cavern 3. Great Fish Isle/Water Temple 4. Temple of the Gods 5. Forsaken Fortress 6. Fire Mountain (Goron co-op) 7. Ice Mountain 8. Earth Temple (Rito co-op) 9. Wind Temple (Korok co-op) I still think it's possible the Zoras were intended to be in it. I know it's explicit that the Rito are descended from them, but maybe they are a hybrid race? It's possible the Zoras split in two. It's great fun anyway. Maybe we should do a thread about the mysteries in Twilight Princess!

Ah, there are so many good games on GameCube, N64, SNES and Megadrive. You need mega-patience to play Majora's Mask from this disc. Mine froze on me three times, but I still completed it 100%! Does that mean I'm patient or just sad? The funny thing is, I actually found it much easier than when I'd played it on N64, probably just because I remembered more of if than I thought I would. Plus, I honestly think games like Zelda (and Metroid) develop your brain. I wonder if the Wii can emulate the N64 + 4MB RAM? Oh well, there's always the Wii 2. But yes, that disc gave me the chance to complete the original Zelda and almost complete Zelda II, which was nice.

Okami, I thought, was a solid 7 or 8/10 - good, but yes, overrated. Beyond Good & Evil, I'd say was just a 6/10. Both those games were considered masterpieces. Donkey Kong 64 was truly awful! It was my big Christmas game the year it was released and I remember thinking how rubbish it was the more I played it! By the time I was in that giant tree and I was having to collect all these things and keep switching between five different apes, I just gave up! Mind you, I don't think it was ever considered a genuinely great game. Call me cynical, but I tend to think single-format magazines will always say the big releases are "decent", to say the least.

Ooh, I definitely want those!