Posted August 3, 2006 Microsoft, Nintendo sued over games controller A CASE started in a Texas district court a few days back alleging that Nintendo and Microsoft had breached a game controller patent. Or two. Or more. Anascape Ltd, a firm based in Texas, alleges that Nintendo and Microsoft breached patent number 5,999,084, called "Variable Conductance Sensor" and issued to Brad Armstrong in 1999. The firms are also alleged to have breached patents 6,102,802 - "Game Controller with Analog Pressure sensor, and 6,135,886, "Variable Conductance Sensor with Elastomeric Dome Cap as well as 6,208,271 "Remote Controller with Analog Button". No, we're not finished yet. Anascape alleges 6,222,525 "Image Controller with Sheet Connected Sensors" was also breached, as well as 6,343, 991 "Game Control with Analog Pressure Sensor" and 6,344,791 "Variable Sensor with Tactile Feedback". As well as 6,347,997 "Analog Controls Housed with Electronic Displays", 6,351,205 "Variable Conductance Sensor" (a different one) and 6,400, 303 "Remote Controller with Analog Pressure Sensor" (a different one). Then there's 6,563, 415 "Analog Sensor with Snap Through Tactile Feedback". And lastly, but not leastly, there is 6,906,700 "3D Controller with Vibration". If you've got this far you won't be surprised to learn that Anascape Ltd wants a court to rule Nintendo and Microsoft owe it a lot of money Pretty much confusing stuff to me. EDIT - Opps,sorry about that : source Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 Have you got a source for this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 wtf. If anyone can dumb that down so half of us could understand it, it would be appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 wtf. If anyone can dumb that down so half of us could understand it, it would be appreciated. Pedro..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 What happened to pedro anyway. Not seen him in a while. I'm probably just not paying attention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 Here. But I dont think it real because it only comes from Inquirer which has head banner saying news,reviews,fact and friction. Example: The Internet was rubbish in 1996 Classic webshites reviewed By Chip Mulligan: Tuesday 01 August 2006, 11:44 WORD HAS COME TO US, by way of the excellent B3ta newsletter, of a rather amusing website that takes you back to the early days of the commercialisation of the web, and pokes fun at some of the better efforts. Using the Internet Archive's "Wayback Machine" service, a bored student at MSU went to have a look at how companies such as MacDonald's and Lego chose to use this newly found Interweb thingummy to promote their brands. And failed miserably. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 If you've got this far you won't be surprised to learn that Anascape Ltd wants a court to rule Nintendo and Microsoft owe it a lot of money Pretty much confusing stuff to me. EDIT - Opps,sorry about that : source Source was there, It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be fake because it seem's a bit stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 Lots of companies patent a lot of things so that they can do exactly this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 I've just looked up one of those patents patent 6,347,997 " Analog controls housed with electronic displays " Inventors: Armstrong; Brad A. (Paradise, CA) And This "Armstrong; Brad A." seems to be associated with anascape. So yes, this could be true (with the difference that this "company", which doesn't even seem to have a website, is located in Carson City, which is in Nevada, a long way from Texas). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 yea also done a bit of digging: patent number 6102802 Game controller with analog pressure sensor(s) Abstract A game controller of the type held in two hands simultaneously for controlling electronic games, including a housing, a plurality of depressible surfaces at least in-part exposed on the housing with the depressible surfaces in operational association with electricity manipulating devices contained within the housing and controlled by depression of the depressible surfaces for manipulating electrical outputs at least useful for controlling electronic games. At least one of the electricity manipulating devices is a pressure-sensitive variable-conductance sensor for creating an analog electrical output proportional to varying physical pressure applied to at least one depressible surface. The analog electrical output is output as a signal at least representational of the analog electrical output to an image generation machine for controlling electronic imagery. Also disclosed are methods of use and manufacture of game controllers having at least one pressure-sensitive analog sensor. So yea these patents actually exist. you can search for them all on http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm However I can't find anything to do with this company apart from these patents, which makes me wonder if this company was set up just to file some patents that might become realisty. It's not even on the yellowpages, anyone else find anything about the company? The patents themselves are EXTREMELY vague. eg A game controller in accordance with claim 7 wherein said active material includes carbon. Hopefully common sense will prevail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 3, 2006 Pedro.....lol :X i'll give it a try patents 6,102,802 - "Game Controller with Analog Pressure sensor, and 6,135,886, "Variable Conductance Sensor with Elastomeric Dome Cap as well as 6,208,271 "Remote Controller with Analog Button".Basically... Analog Pressure Sensor is... a analog (joy)stick. It is sensible to pressure, normally 8 levels. also... analog buttons also detect the pressure. Elastomeric Dome Cap that's the cap for the joystick in that rubber-like soft material. Remote controller with analog button... that's also a "analog pressure sensor" on the buttons, GC has that on the shoulder buttons, and PS2 has it in all the buttons. 6,222,525 "Image Controller with Sheet Connected Sensors" was also breached, as well as 6,343, 991 "Game Control with Analog Pressure Sensor" and 6,344,791 "Variable Sensor with Tactile Feedback"."Image controller"... this is... using the DS touch screen for control. "Sheet conected sensors" is the way it works, it is a regular LCD screen with a "carpet" with sensible points in it. it was not a new technology by 1999. The second is obvious... a patent over controling videogames with a joystick (analog pressure sensor). third is Force feedback I suppose. (this should be for microsoft) 6,347,997 "Analog Controls Housed with Electronic Displays", 6,351,205 "Variable Conductance Sensor" (a different one) and 6,400, 303 "Remote Controller with Analog Pressure Sensor" (a different one).the first one is for PSP... joystick in a system with a LCD. "Remote controller with analog pressure sensor" is ambigous... could be a TV remore control with joystick... or any controller like wavebird, wireless with a joystick. Then there's 6,563, 415 "Analog Sensor with Snap Through Tactile Feedback". And lastly, but not leastly, there is 6,906,700 "3D Controller with Vibration"."analog sensor with snap" that should be force feedback, again... 3D controller with vibration... a controller with Z axys detection that has vibration (rumble pack) built in. I think I covered them all... I have no access to the patents so I could be slightly off or failing to understand some details as I know no details but... The only date reffered is 1999, all these things could be predictable by then, touch screens, analog sticks in portable consoles... it was all predictable by then, Nintendo even had Rumble pack and the analog stick out... and microsoft already had the gyroscopic controller (freestyle pro) with 2D axys and the Force feedback joysticks. And this my friends... is the way to try to get rich fast... A company with no name and no known work... goes off patenting the things they know others will use, sooner or later... to sue them, win some of the cases (thus patenting a lot) and getting a fortune at the cost of others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 4, 2006 This guy seems like a blantent patent troll. Its been a serious problem for many years, this site details a few of the bigger cases http://www.ipfrontline.com/depts/article.asp?id=11605&deptid=3. There is also talk about legistlation being introduced to reduce and eliminate this type of behaviour. However that only really started this June, so unless it comes into effect soon then it wont help either company. On the plus side patent cases take years to resolve, and by then the new legistlation will probably be passed. Personally i think patent laws should be made so the person that produces the patent should have the intention of producing or using the patent on their own products. If someone buys a patent (as they are transfereable), then they mut also be intending to use the patent on their own products. Also if a company is not enforcing a patent for a certain length of time, then it become void (so people cant buy unenforced patents and then enforce them. Nintendo and Microsoft have several factors on their side. The patent holder has waited until the technology is so mainstream that the patent cant be avoided before bringing it up. He should really have declard the breach of patent as soon as it was breached, but didnt so he could claim more money. Secondly all nintendo have to do is show that they had more detailed plans for such a device, or that they have more specific patents, from an earlier time. Thirdly if the idea or concept of these ideas was public before he made the patents (ie it had been floated on the internet), then the patent should be void, as you cant patent something that hs already been shown to the public, or in common knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 4, 2006 ^ I'd like to compliment you for that analysis, very informative, down to earth and enjoyable to read, you really know your stuff in this matter, (thanks for posting basically) It's good to see that something is being done to change the way patents work as it is obviously being abused (not only on this front), I (consider myself) good at perceiving what happened, but terrible at realistic analysis of what will/could happen next... (because I don't know the procedures in-depth). So, it was really good to see sumarized what the patent owner did, why did he waited, and what are Nintendo and Microsoft options to defend themselfes. Speaking about Nintendo though... I wouldn't bet on them having any kind of patent for DS touch screen applied to games back in 1999... the touch screens manufactured like that have been around for years. just not applied to games... but you don't need to be nostradamus to predict that. :p It's quite clear what the owner of the patents did there, I mean... the joystick cap one is downright ridiculous, who would patent the fact of making a joystick feel soft? that one was actually first included in consoles by sony (with dualshock), N64 joystick was only one single piece of uniform plastic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 4, 2006 Also, they seem to of forgotten Sony... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 4, 2006 Microsoft might have trouble avoiding these, as they're late to the game on some of them, with their Xbox; Nintendo, however, can potentially play the prior development card. If you can show you had developed and prototyped similar technologies, before someone else patented the "idea", then the patents are often invalidated as you have a prior right to use your technologies. This is one of the other flaws in a lot of patents; they patent the concept of something without providing the technical details, that you are meant to also provide. This is because the US Patent Office have become extremely lax in enforcing the requirements to successfully file a patent; one example came up a few years ago where a woman had patented the idea of a virtual shopping basket, but had not detailed any specifics of how it would work. She sued a lot of big online stores, Amazon et al, and made a killing, right up until it was appealled and shown that her patent was without merit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 4, 2006 why is sony left out of this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 4, 2006 Because sony doesn't have triggers like XBOX or GC, DC has it though. It will be very hard to change the patent laws. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 4, 2006 It's weird how Sony are the ones usually getting sued, and how it hardly ever happens to Nintendo... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 5, 2006 It's weird how Sony are the ones usually getting sued, and how it hardly ever happens to Nintendo... It's not that weird. Sony being the unoriginal, dream stealing, dipshits they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 5, 2006 No big deal, I mean... As long as Nintendo has Phoenix Wright as their defence attorney, they'll be fine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 5, 2006 No big deal, I mean... As long as Nintendo has Phoenix Wright as their defence attorney, they'll be fine Objection! That post made me laugh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 6, 2006 They can't win surely?!....Why isn't Sony involved in this, sounds dodgy to me. The things are way too vague to pass as proper patents surely? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 7, 2006 This makes no sense as the PS3 will have analog triggers... The sueers seem a bit uninformed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 7, 2006 This makes no sense as the PS3 will have analog triggers... The sueers seem a bit uninformed. It does (kinda). The L2 and R2 have been redesigned so that they are slightly analog. Although they wouldn't be as good as the 360's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
