Thank you for your 13 years service, now feck off!

[Rummy]

So, surprised this hasn't come up as a thread yet. It's something that's come to my attention in the last few days. Essentially, a soldier who served 13 years for the British Army is now being told he has to leave the country, facing deportation because he *once* had a scrap with another soldier. He's a Fijian Commonwealth recruit, and now the country doesn't want him any more because of the one scrap he had. Given his service to the country, I genuinely find it disgusting that it now wants to turn its back on him. Juxtapositions have been drawn about criminals, actually defined so by the courts, who've managed to stay in the country instead of facing deportation due to infringement of human rights. I'm not tip top on the info on that, so I won't dawdle on it.

 

Few articles that give background, but this one sums up the apparent situation and isn't quite as long as the others.

 

http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2012/07/let-baleiwai-stay-campaign-gathers-pace/

 

Isimeli Baleiwai faces deportation, and separation from his wife and children because he is not a British citizen.

 

13 years service in the British army with the Edinburgh-headquartered Royal Regiment of Scotland has not entitled him to the citizenship promised to Commonwealth soldiers because of a bureaucratic loophole. Baleiwai is the subject of an online Meadowbank-based campaign to have himself and other ex-soldiers recognised as citizens, which was launched this week.

 

Lance Corporal Isimeli Baleiwai fought on behalf of Britain’s interests as part of the Royal Regiment of Scotland and the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers. He served the Queen, paid taxes and national insurance on his earnings and risked his life on the battlefields of Bosnia, Northern Ireland, Iraq and Afghanistan during his 13 years in the British army. He is now afflicted with post-traumatic stress disorder from his tour in Afghanistan, but with his uniform off and his service behind him, Baleiwai is no longer entitled to live, work or claim benefits in Britain and must leave the country by 9 August 2012.

 

In 2010 another soldier picked a fight with him, which is said to have lasted but a minute and the summary hearing in front of his commanding officer lasted ten. The former soldier says he had no legal representation and no witnesses were called. Baleiwai was told he had broken the other man’s jaw, and that five fellow soldiers would attest to his acting in self-defence. Baleiwai accepted his punishment, thinking the small incident would be a minor mark on his record, but under new Home Office rules, any punishments incurred during military service are considered equivalent to a criminal record, and Baleiwai is now considered to be a person “not of good character” by the Borders Agency.

 

Baleiwai’s case is being used as an example of how the new rules are failing Britain’s Commonwealth soldiers. The campaign to let him stay in Britain with his family is quickly gathering place, with 11,000 signatures on the petition within a week. Baleiwai is gaining some high-profile supporters, including comedian Eddie Izzard.

A scathing report from members of the Home Affairs committee today has said there is a backlog of 275,000 immigrants who should be removed from the country, an estimated 4,000 of whom are criminals and 57 are convicted criminals released from prison and not yet deported. Baleiwai is one of this number. His wife and two children hold UK passports, but he does not.

 

The Sunday Telegraph exposes the loophole of which Baleiwai claims he is a victim. Commonwealth soldiers recruited to bolster British army numbers were promised British citizenship after four years service, but under new rules, military punishments are considered equal to a criminal record, negating a soldier’s right to citizenship. Veterans groups have criticised this change to regulations, and report “dozens” of cases like Baleiwai’s every month.

 

Two other articles from the Telegraph with a bit more, and how he isn't the only one being affected.

 

 

There's also a petition that's been set up, which can be signed if you so wish.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Yeah, I read this and felt disgusted. Government should be ashamed of themselves. It's the cold way in which they handled this which worries me.

 

Bluddy hell, if they deported every single person in this country who had been in a fight, we'd be very light on numbers. The matter was resolved, he paid a fine, which was his punishment at the time. Matter should be resolved. It reflects very badly on the Armed Forces and also the Government of this country.

[Haden]

I thought this thread was going to be about Ashley.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I've always been baffled by this notion that who gets to stay in a country is so hopelessly dependent on who was born there. Sure, it makes sense at a fundamental level, but when it starts to fly in the face of common sense like in cases such as this, I can do nothing but shake my head.

[Iun]

I've always been baffled by this notion that who gets to stay in a country is so hopelessly dependent on who was born there. Sure, it makes sense at a fundamental level, but when it starts to fly in the face of common sense like in cases such as this, I can do nothing but shake my head.

 

This was a debate that started recently in China - why should foreigners be treated as citizens, or why should they be given citizenship. Basically the nationalists started bleating the "four legs good, two legs bad" line while the rest of the country shrugged its collective shoulders.

 

Essentially, being born in a place gives you a divine right to benefit from education, social welfare and state security. Except in China, where the state schools are so bad that everyone is desperate to go private (and the government is trying hard to make life miserable for private schools) there is no such thing as unemployment benefit, pensions are sometimes cancelled without warning and the state can and does force abortions on women who have a second child as late as seven months into their term.

 

Under those circumstances, why in the lazes would you want to naturalize? On the other hand, there are a number of benefits to be had in Britain such as the NHS and free schooling. By you have to ask the question: what can you do for the country to deserve it? In this soldiers' case, I think he has done enough to warrant it.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I'm honestly not sure what point you're traying to make, Iun. However, the penultimate sentence entices me to ask a perhaps controversial question: Isn't the point of rights to free education, health care etc. (in most countries, at least) that they're rights and not something that has to be earned?

[EEVILMURRAY]

It's not really a case of earning rights, as opposed to qualifying for them, I would liken it to the Americans how they test you for citizenship but I don't think we take it that far in England. I agree the system isn't great in this regard in some respects. But it stops people from just walking across a border and saying "Hi, I'm on your soil - how about some of that free medical care?"

[Iun]

I'm honestly not sure what point you're traying to make, Iun. However, the penultimate sentence entices me to ask a perhaps controversial question: Isn't the point of rights to free education, health care etc. (in most countries, at least) that they're rights and not something that has to be earned?

 

Negatory.

 

The fact is different countries have different standards - while we take it for granted that in the West schooling is free up to a certain age, that's just not the case in many industrializing and developing countries. So we, as non-naturalized citizens of a country where we move to, have to adapt to their values. And if one of their values is "no free education" then we are a bit stuffed. Just because our home government gives out free schooling, doesn't mean that we get it anywhere in the world.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

It's not really a case of earning rights, as opposed to qualifying for them, I would liken it to the Americans how they test you for citizenship but I don't think we take it that far in England. I agree the system isn't great in this regard in some respects. But it stops people from just walking across a border and saying "Hi, I'm on your soil - how about some of that free medical care?"

 

It does make sense that you ought to be part of a society to receive the benefits. But there are strong, nationalistic forces in the world set on making it incredibly difficult to become part of a society. It's these prejudiced, backwards nationalists that I find it hard to deal with.

 

Negatory.

 

The fact is different countries have different standards - while we take it for granted that in the West schooling is free up to a certain age, that's just not the case in many industrializing and developing countries. So we, as non-naturalized citizens of a country where we move to, have to adapt to their values. And if one of their values is "no free education" then we are a bit stuffed. Just because our home government gives out free schooling, doesn't mean that we get it anywhere in the world.

 

Yes, I know all that. I still don't get what you're trying to say with it?

[Iun]

The point I'm making, is that unless you're from a particular state, then you have to earn the right to remain and be treated equal within that state. It's sad, but true.