Retro_Link Posted October 24, 2012 Author Posted October 24, 2012 It's not like this is the only Zelda game where you can be locked out of stuff. What was your first Zelda game btw, Retro? I'm guessing for Grazza and H-o-T that it would have the original or ALTTP- but where do you fit in? Are there any 2D ones you would rate above the 3D games? I don't think there have really been any Zelda's I've played where such significant items have been missable. My first Zelda was Ocarina of Time. Along with my first Nintendo home console. I haven't really played the 2D Zelda's much, other than Minish Cap. I played a tiny bit of ALTTP once, but that was AGES ago. And a few minutes of Four Swords on the 3DS but that was terrible. The only 2D Zelda I'd particularly like to play nowadays would be Four Swords Adventure.
Grazza Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) I just wonder whether old farts such as myself who grew up on the 2D games naturally favour them more than people who might not have. I think it's got a lot to do with how masterful the game design is. Thinking back to when Link to the Past was released, it caused a real buzz in our school. Everyone knew it was an awesome game and wanted to play it. Similar story with Link's Awakening. Admittedly this doesn't dispell your "age" theory, but I honestly think these two were more respected in their time than Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks were in theirs. Not that I want to have a go at the DS games, because I did enjoy them - I just think they were the result of muddled thinking. Personally, my favourite Zeldas are the ones that are really good at being 2D and the ones that are really good at being 3D, namely: OOT, MM, WW, LttP, LA. If you take PH and ST, the 3D bits are quite immersive but the 2.5D sections just don't feel right (in my opinion). The dungeons are too "smooth" and not built on grids, there is no Dungeon Compass and they're full of those awful grey doors that open when you solve certain puzzles! The 3D games, on the other hand, are all fully 3D, but some handle it better than others. Ocarina of Time is great, Majora's Mask is great. Wind Waker takes the idea of exploration even further. Twilight Princess has a pretty good overworld, but it was a fumbled project in many ways. Skyward Sword, though... even if you liked the motion controls I don't think many people would consider that a great 3D game design. Edited October 24, 2012 by Grazza
Captain Falcon Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 I don't think there have really been any Zelda's I've played where such significant items have been missable. My first Zelda was Ocarina of Time. Along with my first Nintendo home console. I haven't really played the 2D Zelda's much, other than Minish Cap. I played a tiny bit of ALTTP once, but that was AGES ago. And a few minutes of Four Swords on the 3DS but that was terrible. The only 2D Zelda I'd particularly like to play nowadays would be Four Swords Adventure. I do feel that perhaps the decision to lock the item in this was more deliberate than what it was in the other games where I suspect they never thought you'd miss it in the first place. I guess FSA will only ever come out as a 3DS remake as the multiplayer requirements render it a bit useless for local multiplayer on the Wii U or as GC VC game. For what it's worth, whlst I rate Minish Cap quite highly, I think ALTTP is even better so I do implore you to go play it even if you're just a tiny bit curious - it laid down so many fundamentals that you see in the later games that it might just make you rethink your opinion of them. @Grazza Some people say that you're first Zelda game is your favourite and I can see a lot of truth to that but you see less people making comparisons to people's favourite Zelda and the era of gaming they grew up in - which is similar but still a different way of viewing things. That's a good point about being respected in their time. I know SEGA did all their marketing to show how Nintendo wasn't cool comapred to their products but back then, pretty much every gamer was a hardcore gamer and NoA's censoring might have been a bit OTT on occasions, I never felt that Nintendo products were seen as only for children, nor did that appear the case from people I knew - I think they had a broad appeal at the time and one or two inccidents got blow out of proportion in the build up to and launch of the N64 for a kiddy reputation that didn't really exist. The MD may have had the fast past shooters but the SNES had all the indepth RPGs dealing with big themes and issues. It's not like there was an internet around to tell you about all their censoring tricks anyway. And by the N64 days, Nintendo hardly censored anything but a clear shift in advertising by other companies wasn't reflected in Nintendo or some of its key titles and "Bob's your uncle" as the saying goes. I think the new kiddy imagine might have affected total sales, I recall seeing pictures of stacks of ST games in Japanese bargain bins, but that's no excuse for the game being weak. I'd hate for people to be wandering around thinking the DS games are the pinnicle of what Zelda has to offer. I guess it was a different Zelda for a different time, kinda what I'm trying to get at, but hopefully, we've moved on from that.
Grazza Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Some people say that you're first Zelda game is your favourite and I can see a lot of truth to that but you see less people making comparisons to people's favourite Zelda and the era of gaming they grew up in - which is similar but still a different way of viewing things. Yes, I see what you mean. You could say LttP to Wind Waker is "my era", which does seem like it encompasses too many games to have much in common, but it was only about 10 years. That's a good point about being respected in their time. I know SEGA did all their marketing to show how Nintendo wasn't cool compared to their products but back then, pretty much every gamer was a hardcore gamer and NoA's censoring might have been a bit OTT on occasions, I never felt that Nintendo products were seen as only for children, nor did that appear the case from people I knew - I think they had a broad appeal at the time and one or two incidents got blow out of proportion in the build up to and launch of the N64 for a kiddy reputation that didn't really exist. See, being a Sega and Nintendo fan I see this a bit differently to most people. I think both companies suffered more because of fashion than either of them (Nintendo specifically) being kiddy. It's true that Nintendo censored a bit more than Sega, but I didn't think there was anything wrong with that, personally. Both the SNES and Mega Drive co-existed and were pretty much respected by all gamers (as you say). The change came when the PlayStation became popular. The new people brought in didn't appreciate what Sega and Nintendo were doing, and I don't think it's because they thought Nintendo was kiddy. I just think Sony's marketing was too good. According to my acquaintances at the time, Wipeout was in a "different league" to F-Zero. Tekken was much better than Virtua Fighter because it "felt more like real fighting". In truth, they didn't know anything (sorry to sound snobby, but this change really got on my nerves). I think the new kiddy imagine might have affected total sales, I recall seeing pictures of stacks of ST games in Japanese bargain bins, but that's no excuse for the game being weak. I'd hate for people to be wandering around thinking the DS games are the pinnacle of what Zelda has to offer. I guess it was a different Zelda for a different time, kinda what I'm trying to get at, but hopefully, we've moved on from that. Couldn't agree more. I think the weak response to Spirit Tracks might have been because it was the 2nd game built upon an engine no one really liked a great deal in the first place. This is the danger of reviewers asking for "fresh" ideas every time. I remember how people were a bit disappointed with Twilight Princess and the mantra was "This is just like OOT. We need something fresh!" Phantom Hourglass was released and I can't help but think they went overboard with the scores just because it was different - too different, in my opinion. I can't help but feel sorry for the Zelda team nowadays as they don't seem to know which things to keep and which to throw out.
Ronnie Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Legend of Zelda on the NES was my first, when I was very young. I remember tearing my hair out on Zelda II but loving it even more than the original, and played every game since (apart from the Four Swords games that I try and ignore). But Ocarina, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker were when my love of Zelda went to a whole new level. This is probably going to sound lame, but what I love about Zelda is that every game offers something different and they're all special in their own way. They each have highs and lows, but the highs are spectacular.
Wii Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Retrospective: The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap - A Decade On Caps off to The Minish Today marks an historic day. The tenth anniversary of The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap. Perhaps one of the most unappreciated and overshadowed chapters in the long and lucrative series - selling just over 1 million units since its release - it's also one of the most unique, quirky and charming Zelda titles to have been released. Here, we look at what made The Minish Cap so wonderful when it released a decade ago, and why it's still one of the strongest Zelda titles to this day. The Minish Cap was released to the US public on 10th January 2005. The title was delayed in the US, in order to allow Nintendo's hot product - the newly released Nintendo DS system - to prosper during the holiday season of 2004, and to not "cannibalise" the market. Elsewhere in the world, the Minish Cap was released as a 2004 holiday title due to the DS instead being given an early 2005 release. It was undertaken by Capcom's Flagship Co., Ltd. and was to be the third and final entry in the Zelda series developed by Capcom (having production of the Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons titles). The Minish Cap expanded on the Four Swords series of games and featured many of the same art assets and styles previously seen in The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords and The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures. Flagship certainly did not shy away from introducing new characters, races and elements to this fully fledged instalment of the Four Swords universe, giving the Minish Cap its own characteristic feel whilst keeping the traditional "Zelda" aesthetic. The miniscule "Minish" from the title's namesake were created especially for this entry, and were yet another race added to the rich history and lore of Hyrule. As well as the Minish, we were introduced to perhaps one of the most kooky and humourous Zelda characters to date - Ezlo. Appearing as a sort of hat-bird, Ezlo serves as Link's "Cap" for the duration of the game - offering him guidance, advice and the odd quip in-between. Ezlo is certainly one of the more endearing and loveable guides/companions Link has had on his many journeys, and simply being accompanied by him as opposed to the likes of Navi makes the adventure all the more delightful. The Minish Cap also retained the villain Vaati (previously seen in the Four Swords series) as the antagonist of the game, in place of Link's usual nemesis - Ganon. One of the most enjoyable (and unique) new introductions of the Minish Cap was the introduction of "kinstones". These little medallions, intricately split in half, were found scattered around the Hyrule overworld and waiting to be collected by Link. Finding a Kinstone half didn't mean much, but finding its corresponding half meant a great deal. The kinstones not only served as a collectable extra and a means of gaining rewards and opening side-paths, but also gave the player much more of an incentive to talk to the many NPCs found throughout Hyrule. Gone was the useless chit-chat and rather patronising hints present with most RPG's NPCs, and in its place were characters seeking to pair up their Kinstone piece, with a reward or bonus giving to the player for doing so. Collecting didn't only come in the form of Kinstones, however. During the adventure, similarly to in Link's Awakening, Link can gather "mysterious shells" from across Hyrule. In turn, these shells can be traded in at the Figurine Store in Hyrule Market for collectible figures (similar to the ones found in the Nintendo Gallery from The Wind Waker). The collectability within the Minish Cap really added greater purpose to the adventure beyond simply completing the main storyline, and helped to make up for what was a relatively short main quest. The Minish Cap's most defining attribute, however, was the ability for Link to shrink himself down to the size of the pixie-like Minish race. This transformation really brought Hyrule to life in a way never previously achieved. Now you could explore just about every nook and cranny of the world, from the earthy forest floors to the dusty roof beams of a Hyrule Market store. Shrinking down in size added a whole new take on both the exploration and puzzle solving, with the ability to become Minish Link (and the many hazards that come with it) being essential for not only advancing through the overworld, but also in collecting essential items and heart pieces, as well as entering large portions of the map that were accessible only when in Minish form. This not only presented fresh mechanics for exploring, but also allowed for a new and interesting take on many of the boss battles. Besides the ability to diminish in height, another noteworthy mechanic (which admittedly was somewhat of a hangover from the Four Swords) is Link's ability to "copy" himself. Collecting the four elements, and fusing them with Link's blade, gave him the ability to clone himself two, three or four times. Standing on specific tiles and charging your sword would allow Link to form a duplicate of himself. This was required in order to solve allocated puzzles in specific areas where Link alone would not do, and only two, three or four Links will muster up the strength to move a rather hefty block or stand on switches simultaneously. The cloning ability is yet another example of how the Minish Cap took the age old Zelda formula and rejuvenated it, by giving the player a different means of solving the usual puzzles in exciting new ways. The gameplay was further complimented by some fun new items and weapons for Link to use. As always, Link was equipped with his arsenal of bombs and arrows, but some of the new additions were truly remarkable - and a little bizarre. There was the gust jar which was essentially just a jar, but graced with a plethora of uses - from uncovering secret patches on the floor by sucking up dirt, to propelling Link as he floated on water with a backdraft of air and even fetching out-of-reach items. Then there were the Mole Mitts, which allowed Link to burrow through otherwise impassable obstacles and walls. The Cane of Pacci allowed Link to flip over various items such as blocks, enemies, and uncovered minish pot portals - necessary to shrink down to Minish size. And of course there was Ezlo, Link's wisecracking hat who even had his own nifty uses - such as acting as a parachute, allowing Link to glide from one area to another, and ultimately the ability to shrink. All in all, The Minish Cap featured some of the freshest new items and mechanics the Zelda series had seen to that point. Having such a late release in terms of the Game Boy Advance's lifespan certainly did no harm to the title's audiovisual appeal, and The Minish Cap arguably remains the most attractive 2D Zelda title to this day. The Minish Cap's rendition of Hyrule is awash with vibrant colour, wonderful textures and minute details, such as flowers swaying in the breeze, beams of light breaking through forest canopies and the glistening gleam of the many rivers and streams found running through the land. Seeing the environments in such microscopic detail further emphasised not only how beautiful the areas you can see in Zelda are, but also the areas you can't see, especially true when in the Picori settlements. It's extremely impressive to see just how much tiny details are incorporated into the environment, as the developers spared no effort when making Hyrule look as attractive as possible. Being so minute for much of the game gave the developers further opportunity to wow the player and fully immerse them into the world. Now you could see giant leafs in the foreground looming above, obscuring parts of your path and casting giant shadows down onto the floor below. It's touches like this that entirely envelope you into the Minish Cap's world, and leave you with a sense of being truly small and vulnerable. This vibrancy and lovely visuals were accompanied by wholesome music which will leave you hard pressed to find a GBA title with a more hearty and rich sound. Like the aforementioned Oracle games, having been developed by Capcom The Minish Cap had a strange air of freshness to it, whilst remaining familiar enough to not seem alien. The Minish Cap is a bit like hearing your favourite song covered by another artist, albeit a truly respected and gifted one. The title, despite feeling very distinct in its own right, also felt like somewhat of an amalgamation of many other great Zelda titles. Borrowing elements from stellar titles like A Link to the Past and The Wind Waker gave the Minish Cap somewhat of a throwback feel, whilst not feeling dated. Flagship kept the right elements in place and added enough new ones to make the title a genuinely well rounded adventure. The Minish Cap also had a wonderfully quaint and charming "fairytale" feel to the whole experience, making it quite unlike any other Zelda game. At times it felt like Link had tumbled into the realm of Gullivers Travels, the Borrowers or Jack and the Beanstalk, and it's these little, unusual nuances that further distinguished the Minish Cap from the many Zelda titles that preceeded and followed. Looking objectively at the Minish Cap, one may give a host of reasons as to why it's not the "definitive" or "greatest" Zelda of them all. Sure, the storyline may not be the most original tale ever told, and it certainly isn't flowing with plot twists and a branching narrative. Yes, it lacks any substantial difficulty and the relatively short storyline shouldn't take veterans long to complete. But to get hung up on such qualms would be doing the Minish Cap a disservice. Despite its shortcomings, it got an abundance of things right, and to this day is one of the more interesting Zelda titles released. The Minish Cap was crammed full of vibrant and diverse environments, fun and adorable characters, interesting new gameplay mechanics, and featured a truly magical Hyrule overworld that has never felt so teeming with life and personality. If you haven't revisited the title for a few years, or have never even experienced The Minish Cap at all, do yourself a favour and check out the game in honour of its tenth birthday, either on the Game Boy Advance or the Wii U Virtual Console. You will not be disappointed. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/01/retrospective_the_legend_of_zelda_the_minish_cap_a_decade_on Sorry, meant to post this yesterday. Another gem sitting in my "to do" pile.
Rummy Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 It was quite a cracking little game, though it's one of the few Zeldas that I've never bothered to go back and replay. When I think of it I get the image in my mind of its vibrancy, in particular a field of grass or something(is there anything more zelda than cutting grass??). I might have to see if I can find the cartridge for it and stick it on the end of the 'to do' list as a replay, might be an excellent use for my micro if I find it too.
Fused King Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Ezlo is still the best Link sidekick to this day if you'd ask me. But Midna comes very close. Edited January 18, 2015 by Fused King
Recommended Posts