Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) So I've discovered the situation in North Korea recently and it fascinates me like nothing I can remember. What are people's thoughts on the country, domestically and it's international standing? Edited September 24, 2010 by ipaul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 Well we could destroy the regime, but... 1. What will china do? 2. Do North Korea have nukes? 3. Is the equipment so outdated one f-22 raptor could take on their entire airforce, and win? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 All these regimes that America class as 'problems' are really no threat to the West what-so-ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) All these regimes that America class as 'problems' are really no threat to the West what-so-ever. Well I think they are, but even if they aren't, what about the condition of it's people? It seems disheartening to think we wouldn't even try to do anything about it. I know, many countries have their problems, we can't solve them all. But this seems like a pretty severe case. The whole thing's just so dam saddening Edited September 24, 2010 by ipaul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 North Korea are keeping the dream alive, more power to them I say. Fending off Western imperialism is evidently an impossible task and all we can do is label them evil and backwards. My uncle's been to North Korea and while there are 'issues' that us Westerners get in a fit over and start spouting bullshit about human rights, "oh they're not allowed mobile phones or the global access to the internet... NO HUMAN RIGHTS, EVIL etc." They are completely excluded from global markets, so their population is not open to exploitation by globalisation and corporate takeovers like much of China is. The country is far too small to support itself which is why they get so much help from China. It's simply a case that they won't open up to democracy (Western invention that bred Thatcher, Regan and Bush so, yeah... less than perfect), they won't open up to global markets essentially supporting US/Western imperialism, they're not a materialist society so they don't buy stuff they don't need to support global systems and they have a leader that terrifies the world because he's so secretive he throws the world into a panic about nuclear weapons, which in reality, is a farce because there is no possible way they could ever afford them - I believe it's just a smokescreen to stop the West marching in and ILLEGALLY removing the regime in the name of 'democracy' so that the 20 or so million people can be exploited. Very sad indeed, when you see it from the other perspective. The US will not rest until the entire world is in their custody. So more power to North Korea (and China). Live and let live. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 North Korea are keeping the dream alive, more power to them I say. That's one of the most contemptible statements I think I've ever read on here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 That's one of the most contemptible statements I think I've ever read on here. Well you've already indicated how biased you are with the thread title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 I am struggling to see how anyone can take the side of a dictator, who has ideals that are of a communist past, that has been forgotten by the rest of the world which has moved on to better things Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 Isn't there a lot more inhuman stuff going on in North Korea than simply people not having mobile phones or internet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 That's one of the most contemptible statements I think I've ever read on here. By the way iPaul, that video is horrifically biased to the point I think he's making stuff up. I think Kim Jong Il is a tit, and the way people worship him is absurd, however saying that there is no emotion and love in NK is just pure bullshit and there is no way he paid a bribe to get in the country, it's impossible. You can ONLY get in by applying for a visa (about $3,000) for two weeks. You have to have pre-screening in China and even then you get two members of the Korean Workers Party who accompany your trip and SHOW you what they want you to see. There is NO other way to see or get into North Korea, so what your guy in the video is saying is pretty much bullshit. If you open up your mind, you will see that while aspects of North Korea are horrific (pretty much Kim Jong Il), it is a country which just has a different take on life, which many people can't understand or comprehend, which is why they are fearful of it and so damning of it. No system is perfect but I'd hate to live in a world where there wasn't an outlook on life where making and having money was king. I am struggling to see how anyone can take the side of a dictator, who has ideals that are of a communist past, that has been forgotten by the rest of the world which has moved on to better things Yeah sure, 40% of Americans living below the poverty line is a "better thing" and a little thing called the Global financial crisis is a "better thing." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 Isn't there a lot more inhuman stuff going on in North Korea than simply people not having mobile phones or internet? Depends what you define as inhuman. I would say working 13 hours a day in an Apple factory for a pittance, to provide the West with material over priced bollocks is pretty inhuman. Especially when you have no other way of making a living. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 I am struggling to see how anyone can take the side of a dictator, who has ideals that are of a communist past, that has been forgotten by the rest of the world which has moved on to better things Well we've already understood that you don't actually know what communism is. What are these better things that we've moved onto exactly? War? Poverty? A larger rift between the rich and the poor/social classes? Oh man I love these great things we've moved on to. Just because we're in a democracy it doesn't that it's the only way that people should live and everyone else is evil. Do you actually know anything about North Korea, Kim Jong Il or communism? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 Well you've already indicated how biased you are with the thread title. My position is simply that it is an awful place and something should (or might have to be) done about it at some point. There are people who think we shouldn't bother doing anything and it isn't our business, I understand that viewpoint and sympathise with it. However, North Korea is in an awful state run by a mad leader. This is not up for debate. Do we really want Kim Jong Il to have more power? I'm not saying we should start a war with them. But to suggest that he be given more power is absolutely perverse. Also, 'Bullshit about human rights'? Would you like to live in a regime where you can't vote? Where you can't access the internet? Where food is so scarce that even people in the military are under fed? They are utter servants to the state in North Korea. There are no books, films, music, literature - apart from the state propaganda. As Christopher Hitchens points out - 'The human life is completely pointless in North Korea'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 By the way iPaul, that video is horrifically biased to the point I think he's making stuff up. I think Kim Jong Il is a tit, and the way people worship him is absurd, however saying that there is no emotion and love in NK is just pure bullshit and there is no way he paid a bribe to get in the country, it's impossible. You can ONLY get in by applying for a visa (about $3,000) for two weeks. You have to have pre-screening in China and even then you get two members of the Korean Workers Party who accompany your trip and SHOW you what they want you to see. There is NO other way to see or get into North Korea, so what your guy in the video is saying is pretty much bullshit. If you open up your mind, you will see that while aspects of North Korea are horrific (pretty much Kim Jong Il), it is a country which just has a different take on life, which many people can't understand or comprehend, which is why they are fearful of it and so damning of it. No system is perfect but I'd hate to live in a world where there wasn't an outlook on life where making and having money was king. Yeah sure, 40% of Americans living below the poverty line is a "better thing" and a little thing called the Global financial crisis is a "better thing." That is capitalism, which I am not a fan of either. There is a middle ground, which we should stay in. IF we started a war with them, could they even fight back effectively with their technology? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 However, North Korea is in an awful state run by a mad leader. This is not up for debate Yeah but you're not biased or anything. You've clearly closed your mind to any other idea other than your own. What's the point in starting a thread about North Korea where you don't even want a debate about it? What replies did you want exactly? Invade them? Nuke them? As Christopher Hitchens points out - 'The human life is completely pointless in North Korea'. Oh yeah that guy is so right. Because they don't have as many rights as us, their life is completely pointless. We should just go ahead and kill them, because we'd be doing them a favour. IF we started a war with them, could they even fight back effectively with their technology? Yes they could. They have one of the biggest armies in the world. You clearly don't know anything about North Korea. What do you mean "with their technology"? Do you honestly think that they're living in the stone age or something? That if we went to war with them they'd just throw stones at is and swing sticks about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) Yeah but you're not biased or anything. You've clearly closed your mind to any other idea other than your own. What's the point in starting a thread about North Korea where you don't even want a debate about it? What replies did you want exactly? Invade them? Nuke them? Oh yeah that guy is so right. Because they don't have as many rights as us, their life is completely pointless. We should just go ahead and kill them, because we'd be doing them a favour. I specifically said I wasn't advocating war against them. Don't insinuate my opinions like that. My mind is open to many ideas, but the idea that Kim Jong Il should be supported is not welcome in my mind. I would have liked replies about how people think the situation with North Korea might come to an end. Although in fairness, another thing that can't be disputed in my mind - Democracy > Totalitarianism. Terribly closed minded of me, I know. Edited September 24, 2010 by ipaul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 I have a morbid curiosity with North Korea, I recommend this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nothing-Envy-Lives-North-Korea/dp/1847080146/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1285324936&sr=8-4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) I have a morbid curiosity with North Korea, I recommend this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nothing-Envy-Lives-North-Korea/dp/1847080146/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1285324936&sr=8-4 Thank you If I didn't have such a backlog of books I'd read that right away. Moogle what exactly are your thoughts on the country Edited September 24, 2010 by ipaul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 I specifically said I wasn't advocating war against them. So how else is this "problem" going to be solved? Because I highly doubt that Kim Jong Il will be persuaded to turn N.Korea into a democratic state. I also don't see how it's even a problem. What gives you the right to say that Democracy>Totalitarianism? What gives you [stuwii] the right to say that communism is evil? There is no good or bad. Only what society tells you. And because we live in a democratic/capitalist society you think that totalitarianism/communism is bad. Well they think the same about us. And it's that sort of thinking that breeds suicide bombers. Because they think that western capitalism is a "problem"/evil that needs to be solved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 Well we've already understood that you don't actually know what communism is. What are these better things that we've moved onto exactly? War? Poverty? A larger rift between the rich and the poor/social classes? Oh man I love these great things we've moved on to. Just because we're in a democracy it doesn't that it's the only way that people should live and everyone else is evil. Do you actually know anything about North Korea, Kim Jong Il or communism? China and Russia. Moved on. Developed. Simple.as. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 Moogle what exactly are your thoughts on the country I don't see a problem with it. They aren't about to harm us. What gives us the right to interfere with them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 China and Russia. Moved on. Developed. Simple.as. Yeah China have been doing great haven't they. Their human rights are exemplar now. And the fall of communism from Russia went brilliantly. Look at all of those Eatern European companies. They've got a way better quality of life now. They don't have a lot of poverty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 So how else is this "problem" going to be solved? Because I highly doubt that Kim Jong Il will be persuaded to turn N.Korea into a democratic state. I also don't see how it's even a problem. What gives you the right to say that Democracy>Totalitarianism? What gives you [stuwii] the right to say that communism is evil? There is no good or bad. Only what society tells you. And because we live in a democratic/capitalist society you think that totalitarianism/communism is bad. Well they think the same about us. And it's that sort of thinking that breeds suicide bombers. Because they think that western capitalism is a "problem"/evil that needs to be solved. I never said anything about communism. Insinuating my opinions again I see. Cut the bullshit, Democracy is a better system and you know it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 Depends what you define as inhuman. I would say working 13 hours a day in an Apple factory for a pittance, to provide the West with material over priced bollocks is pretty inhuman. Especially when you have no other way of making a living. That's fair, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking how people are treated in North Korea. Because totalitarian regimes have a tendency to treat their people badly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 24, 2010 I never said anything about communism. Insinuating my opinions again I see. That was aimed at stuwii. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
