Dark Souls

[Pit-Jr]

You should really head upwards to the chapel first and tackle New Londo later.

You're still gonna die repeatedly though. Enjoy!

[The Bard]

This shit is, like, super good.

[Deathjam]

Just got this on PC and got a patch fix for the resolution constraint and now that I've got it running at 1080p I can say that it seems pretty damn atmospheric, eerie and exciting so far. Unfortunately, getting murdered five times in a row on my way in New Londo Ruins does its share to put a dampener on your excitement for a new experience, especially since you have to trek all the way back on a corpse run before you can even attempt an alternate route. What a bummer.

 

Did you get invaded? Bought it for pc too but find myself waiting for a patch to sort out dodgy fps I am getting. I know it's capped at 30 but mine goes down to 25 occasionally despite applying tweaks mentioned in steam forums. Sigh. could be waiting for a long time...

[dwarf]

We have harnessed another soul.

 

(You must be laughing at your claptrap on the previous page now)

[Cookyman]

We have harnessed another soul.

 

This type of harness?

 

[dwarf]

Yes. ............

[The Bard]

Actually, I made it clear that everything I said was based on impressions I'd gleaned from podcasts, magazine articles and interviews. So totally second hand . I couldn't imagine playing it at the puny, muddy resolution it's available at on consoles though.

 

@Deathjam, mine has been pretty much locked at 30fps. I've never had a single issue. It also feels oddly responsive for a 30fps game; I'm used to a lot more input lag than I'm getting.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Actually, I made it clear that everything I said was based on impressions I'd gleaned from podcasts, magazine articles and interviews. So totally second hand . I couldn't imagine playing it at the puny, muddy resolution it's available at on consoles though.

 

@Deathjam, mine has been pretty much locked at 30fps. I've never had a single issue. It also feels oddly responsive for a 30fps game; I'm used to a lot more input lag than I'm getting.

 

Just wait 'till you get to Blighttown. You can kiss that steady FPS rate goodbye.

[Deathjam]

Just wait 'till you get to Blighttown. You can kiss that steady FPS rate goodbye.

 

PC mate so Blighttown doesn't crush fps as it does on consoles.

[Oxigen_Waste]

PC mate so Blighttown doesn't crush fps as it does on consoles.

 

I thought Blighttown was still a problem area, even on the pc... no?

[Domstercool]

I love how arriving in the main world reminded me of the original Legend of Zelda. "ring some bells, GO!" But where?

[Deathjam]

I thought Blighttown was still a problem area, even on the pc... no?

 

Nope, blighttown is silky smooth on pc.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Nope, blighttown is silky smooth on pc.

 

*creams*

 

Next Steam Summer Sale, this will be mine. That is a promise.

[Sheikah]

Ah, Dark Souls, what a beast. Can't wait for them to make another one...

[Oxigen_Waste]

Ah, Dark Souls, what a beast. Can't wait for them to make another one...

 

Qft. But the next one needs more variation otherwise it'll start getting a bit old. Dark Souls is too much like Demon's Souls.

[Sheikah]

I thought it did a great job at changing things that need to be changed tbh. Its major change was integrating everything as one world which was pretty massive. As with game series like DQ, there is already so much right with the game that changing too much probably means pissing off the fans.

[Oxigen_Waste]

I thought it did a great job at changing things that need to be changed tbh. Its major change was integrating everything as one world which was pretty massive. As with game series like DQ, there is already so much right with the game that changing too much probably means pissing off the fans.

 

That's not what I meant. Those changes were welcome and refreshing (though to this day I still do NOT understand why on earth humanity is in the game...), I actually mean the games were too similar in some points... Boletarian Palace and Undead Parish/Burg are exactly the same, Blighttown=Valley Of Deffilement, Stonefang = tomb of giants and demon ruins, the archives are a reskinned tower of latria, and anor londo borrows many of it's elements from the tower as well. There's more, but you get the idea, right? They repeated too many formulas.

[Sheikah]

Humanity makes it harder. Needing humanity means you're in a weak state if you're an undead and also means you can't call other people to help.

 

Most of those places except Blighttown weren't really similar to the levels you mentioned in DS. Anor Londo didn't feel anything like the DS castle to me, for a start it was huge. Really you're drawing on themes here, like how many RPGs have an earth temple, castle, etc.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Humanity makes it harder. Needing humanity means you're in a weak state if you're an undead and also means you can't call other people to help.

 

Most of those places except Blighttown weren't really similar to the levels you mentioned in DS. Anor Londo didn't feel anything like the DS castle to me, for a start it was huge. Really you're drawing on themes here, like how many RPGs have an earth temple, castle, etc.

 

Harder? I think it makes it easier... It ruins that "one currency for everything" feel that made decisions in Demon's Souls that much more important. Plus the humanity items also heal you for full life? Nonsense. It also kinda limits pvp. I don't know, I just never felt it was a visceral part of the game, felt like it was a system glued on top of the game for no apparent good reason. There's no real consequences to being hollow... it actually makes the game easier as there's no chance of being invaded. I don't know, I just see absolutely no purpose to the whole hollow or not system. Kindling fires should be paid for with Souls. And you should always be undead, wether you wanted to play online or not would just be a matter of allowing one to choose which mode one wanted to play in at the beginning. I guess it's just me, but I see no point in humanity at all.

 

Anor Londo wasn't the castle. Undead Parish/Burg was. And I'm not (just) saying they looked similar... the gameplay design was the same. So were all the others. Hell, this is a pretty common complaint I've seen thrown at the game and I don't think there's really much going around it. I loved Dark Souls, it's a fucking masterpiece and one of the 5 best games this gen. And I really don't care for it's similarities with Demon's Souls, it hardly detracts anything from the game. My only point is that when the inevitable 3rd entry comes around they better not do that again or the community will most likely not be very happy about it.

[Sheikah]

Harder? I think it makes it easier... It ruins that "one currency for everything" feel that made decisions in Demon's Souls that much more important. Plus the humanity items also heal you for full life? Nonsense. It also kinda limits pvp. I don't know, I just never felt it was a visceral part of the game, felt like it was a system glued on top of the game for no apparent good reason.

Um, it was there in Demon's Souls too. In fact it is not really changed much. In Demon's Souls you died and stayed in soul form until you either killed a boss or used a stone of ephemeral eyes. In Dark Souls, you use items too that restore humanity just like the stone of ephemeral eyes. That 'non soul currency' was already there in DS in the form of ephemeral eyes. That was used way more than boss killing for reviving.

 

There's no real consequences to being hollow... it actually makes the game easier as there's no chance of being invaded. I don't know, I just see absolutely no purpose to the whole hollow or not system. Kindling fires should be paid for with Souls.

Actually it made you more resistant to stuff like the plague which was really useful and made it a lot easier to come by items. Souls are easy as fuck to acquire, I'm glad they didn't ask for souls to kindle fires. It makes it harder that you need to be in body form to kindle. When you die in body form you can't just getting it back by touching your blood mark unlike with souls, making this one harder.

 

Also regarding the being in soul form, aside from not having half HP all this was the same in Dark Souls. In body form you have an overwhelming advantage over the invader so it's actually fun to slaughter the bastards when they invade. :p

 

Anor Londo wasn't the castle. Undead Parish/Burg was. And I'm not (just) saying they looked similar... the gameplay design was the same. So were all the others. Hell, this is a pretty common complaint I've seen thrown at the game and I don't think there's really much going around it.

Anor Londo was a massive castle. Anyway, Undead Burg had nothing of the same layout / enemies in my opinion. The only similarities were the dragon and the bridge, but that's almost like a classic set piece of the Souls series now and I'd want to scream at them if they ever thought to remove that.

 

My only point is that when the inevitable 3rd entry comes around they better not do that again or the community will most likely not be very happy about it.

 

I disagree, I think they've gone from strength to strength and can't fault the way they've changed things, and at no point did I feel anything was too similar or rehashed. They could have been lazy as fuck like most developers but they seem genuinely interested in improving their games and keeping them interesting. Keep it up I say.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Um, it was there in Demon's Souls too. In fact it is not really changed much. In Demon's Souls you died and stayed in soul form until you either killed a boss or used a stone of ephemeral eyes. In Dark Souls, you use items too that restore humanity just like the stone of ephemeral eyes. That 'non soul currency' was already there in DS in the form of ephemeral eyes. That was used way more than boss killing for reviving.

 

Speak for yourself, I think I may have used like... 2 or 3 stones the whole game, and I got to NG+++. To mee the whole point was the challenge and so if I wanted a revive, I'd get it fighting, not through items. And if I didn't have to kindle fires I wouldn't have used any humanity in Dark 'till I'd reached SL 120. Plus I think that dying and loosing half your health is considerably more punishing than dying and nothing happening.

 

Actually it made you more resistant to stuff like the plague which was really useful and made it a lot easier to come by items. Souls are easy as fuck to acquire, I'm glad they didn't ask for souls to kindle fires. It makes it harder that you need to be in body form to kindle. When you die in body form you can't just getting it back by touching your blood mark unlike with souls, making this one harder.

 

Also regarding the being in soul form, aside from not having half HP all this was the same in Dark Souls. In body form you have an overwhelming advantage over the invader so it's actually fun to slaughter the bastards when they invade. :p

 

Yeah plague resistance isn't really that useful. The only place were you actually get plague unless you're just very very terrible at the game is fighting Seath. The increased items were handy but in the end irrelevant since you end up with way too many of the same crap even without any humanity. Souls are easy as fuck to acquire? So is humanity. Even more than souls. 3 hours into my first playthrough I had like 20 humanity items. Humanity's everywhere. Just like souls. As for the dying in human form, what's the point when you have way more humanity than you can spend around every corner?

 

You have an advantage when fighting in body form? Why? oO Anyway, you kind of HAVE to be in body form to even be invaded or invade except in some covenants, so I don't really get this comparison.

 

Anor Londo was a massive castle. Anyway, Undead Burg had nothing of the same layout / enemies in my opinion. The only similarities were the dragon and the bridge, but that's almost like a classic set piece of the Souls series now and I'd want to scream at them if they ever thought to remove that.

 

I disagree, I think they've gone from strength to strength and can't fault the way they've changed things, and at no point did I feel anything was too similar or rehashed. They could have been lazy as fuck like most developers but they seem genuinely interested in improving their games and keeping them interesting. Keep it up I say.

 

Lol, I'm not saying Anor Londo wasn't A castle, it just wasn't "the castle". I was comparing Undead Burg with Boletarian Palace (which you refered to as "the castle, hence me saying AL wasn't "the castle").

 

The dragon in the bridge, similar design, undead soldiers, dogs, Gargoyles=Maneater, it goes on and on. In other areas you have the cage elevators, snuggly the crow, Asylum Demon=Vanguard Hell,the butcher from valley=butcher from blighttown, gargoyles coming and lifting you to next location, the list goes on an on. Like I said, in the end it's fine. Quite fine, actually, I absolutely loved Dark Souls, one of my fav games ever, but this opinion of mine seemed to be the generalized opinion when the game came out on the other forum I go to, Neogaf. And judging by that sample everyone pretty much agreed you can sin once but the second time around usually stings quite hard.

[Sheikah]

You...what? You hardly used stone of ephemeral eyes? What a waste! Why spite yourself by not using something that was part of the game? Finding the stones could be difficult earlier on because they would be placed in dangerous places, so if anything using something you worked hard to get is completely fine.

 

I'm really not sure where you're coming from by not using the eyes since you no doubt still used herb items to heal yourself in Demon's Souls. Herbs > all other items by far in terms of overpowered items. This is what made DS very, very easy compared to Dark Souls. Because souls were so easy to acquire you could essentially buy and stock a ridiculous amount of healing herbs to make you invincible. Cling ring meant you had nearly as much HP as when in body mode, and the clever rat's ring and morion blade made it so easy to blitz bosses.

 

Anyway, I completely disagree about humanity being easy to acquire up until later on in the game when you can farm baby skeletons. Up until then there is NO get rich scheme for humanity. I know from having 100% both games (platinums in both). If you had so many it might be because you weren't using any. Remember, to kindle a fire once you essentially had to use up 2 humanuty just to revive then kindle the fire. You'd be lucky to acquire more than a couple of humanity in a set area for most of the earlier levels. So yeah, completely disagree on that. Final comment, if you wanted to make a lot of the better weapons having humanity to have a good drop rate was near essential. You say humanity isn't important, but I'm guessing that's because you didn't try go for the power weapons.

 

I also don't agree with levels being the same/similar. You're drawing on similarities between some monsters but this is really superficial. At no point when I went through the levels in Dark Souls did I feel like I could anticipate what was coming next or did I feel like it was just repeating itself. It's like saying two Zelda games are the same because you see some of the same sorts of monsters. I just don't buy it.

[Oxigen_Waste]

You...what? You hardly used stone of ephemeral eyes? What a waste! Why spite yourself by not using something that was part of the game? Finding the stones could be difficult earlier on because they would be placed in dangerous places, so if anything using something you worked hard to get is completely fine.

 

I'm really not sure where you're coming from by not using the eyes since you no doubt still used herb items to heal yourself in Demon's Souls. Herbs > all other items by far in terms of overpowered items. This is what made DS very, very easy compared to Dark Souls. Because souls were so easy to acquire you could essentially buy and stock a ridiculous amount of healing herbs to make you invincible. Cling ring meant you had nearly as much HP as when in body mode, and the clever rat's ring and morion blade made it so easy to blitz bosses.

 

I didn't use stones because hey, that's what makes the game different. I wasn't interested in playing Elder Scrolls (which I love, but for different reasons) when I picked up Demon's Souls. I kept them around and used them only in special situations. Which was 2 or 3 times.

 

As for herbs, yeah I used them, but I never really purchased any herbs. In my view, that kind of defeats the purpose. It's like using a bow... when I'm playing a game because of it's rewarding difficulty, getting a way around that isn't my objective. At all. As for cling ring, kept it on me for almost the entire game, but I don't think I ever used the clever rat's. That's the beauty of the Souls franchise, to me, the battle system is so finely tuned you really don't need to do much except propper dodging and attacking once you get good enough. That's the rewarding part, beating those odds fairly.

 

Anyway, I completely disagree about humanity being easy to acquire up until later on in the game when you can farm baby skeletons. Up until then there is NO get rich scheme for humanity. I know from having 100% both games (platinums in both). If you had so many it might be because you weren't using any. Remember, to kindle a fire once you essentially had to use up 2 humanuty just to revive then kindle the fire. You'd be lucky to acquire more than a couple of humanity in a set area for most of the earlier levels. So yeah, completely disagree on that. Final comment, if you wanted to make a lot of the better weapons having humanity to have a good drop rate was near essential. You say humanity isn't important, but I'm guessing that's because you didn't try go for the power weapons.

 

I never farmed baby skeletons. I farmed the pisaca for like 8 humanity at one point but the main goal was soul farming, since they dropped 50000+ per run, and hey the humanity was a nice bonus. And yeah, I had lots of humanity because I never used it. Maybe. All bonfires in my game are kindled to the max (20) except the main Anor Londo bonfire (because I killed the keeper after killing gwyn) and the one in the tunnel between valey of drakes and darkroot basin and I'm rank 2 in sisters of chaos covenant (so that's 30 more humanity) and having only farmed 10 humanities, at the start of NG+ I still had 10 twin humanities and about 8 regular humanities. So that's how necessary it was.

 

Funny aside, I didn't even understand what kindling was until very late in my first playthrough so I just played through 80% with a 5 flask cap, lolol. The point still stands, though, because once I did know what it was I went around the world and kindled all the bonfires to max. And yes, you could probably say I had to spend one less humanity on each because I didnt have to revive, but still, with those 30 given to chaos and all the ones I had left, I would still have had more than enough.

 

 

As for making the better weapons, well I'm a STR pyro build (50 STR) and I've got 18 different weapons at +14 and 2 at +15 plus 2 more at +5 lightning and 2 more at +10 fire. All the weapons I have were common drops of which I have multiple copies and the ones that weren't were purchased in the stores or obtained by killing NPCs (like the Murakumo). Also, all the materials are purchaseable except for chunks, which are a guaranteed drop in Kiln. No humanity involved at all. There's at least 2 100% guaranteed titanite slabs per playthrough (which accounts for my 2 lightning+5 weaps and my 2 +15 weapons). If I wanted more slabs, I could pontentially waste 100 hours of my life with the covetous ring, mime helmet and 10 humanity to farm the darkwraiths for those 18 other titatine slabs. But I can't really merit the torturous pursuit of insanely rare drops just to have a very very slightly more powerfull weapon on my hands. I learned that lesson from Monster Hunter Tri and Demon's Souls. It's not worth the trouble. At all. Then there's the guaranteed Red slab per playthrough, which accounts for my 2 +10 fire weapons.

 

The ONLY weapon/armor/wtvr I had to farm for was the silver knight shield. Which took me 17 mins with the serpent ring and the mime helmet to get. The best gear in the game is mostly either 100% drops, gear purchaseable after killing bosses/black phantoms or gear that's just purchaseable to start with. There's no point in farming for anything unless you're a trophy whore. Which luckily I am not. In other words, most functions humanity offers are secondary and optional.

 

What amazing gear am I missing out on by not farming, could you tell me?

 

I also don't agree with levels being the same/similar. You're drawing on similarities between some monsters but this is really superficial. At no point when I went through the levels in Dark Souls did I feel like I could anticipate what was coming next or did I feel like it was just repeating itself. It's like saying two Zelda games are the same because you see some of the same sorts of monsters. I just don't buy it.

 

Well, using the be all end all of sample groups that NeoGAF is, I'd say you're in the minority. The similarities in content and theme are there. Some are awesome (Patches), most are negligeable, and even when they aren't it doesn't diminish the game's quality in any significant way, because everything still just as fresh as before.

However, being that this is From Software, a developer who's constantly being criticized for reusing the same level designs over and over on their games (see Otogi, Armored Core series, King's Field series, Lost Kingdoms series) I see a worrying future ahead of us. Hell, as soon as Demon's Souls came out, King's Field IV fans started raining light hatred upon it for exactly that same reason: repetitive game design.

 

It's funny you mention Zelda... as that's exactly my point. It seems as though ou agree with me but it just doesn't bother you. Lol, all this text was a waste... meh nevermind. So, Zelda, right? Zelda is a series known for repeating itself over and over. And a series which gets pretty much all of it's flack for that same reason. For always being the same. I'm not saying I'll stop playing Zelda/Souls games or stop enjoying them. To this day I keep enjoy Zelda games. But they lack the progression you see in something like Portal 2 when compared to 1... you know, that positive deviation? That thing that made Shadow Of The Colossus so special after ICO, or Journey after Flower, Half Life 2 after 1, Baldur's Gate 2 after 1, Uncharted 2 after 1... Now THAT's how you deliver a follow up! The "breath of fresh air" label that the Souls franchise has under it's belt will soon fade unless the game starts seeing some innovative design. And it'll just become another household name like Metal Gear or Gears of War or God of War. It'll become just like Elder Scrolls. It'll stop being an event and become just another installment in a series. A good instalment, but one that doesn't really bring anything new to the table. And that's a shame.

[Sheikah]

Nah, I still don't buy it. Now you're claiming that all Zelda games are the same. Sure, they bring back the same enemies and certain weapons and themes. But there's a difference between stuff the game is known for and 2 games actually being the same. The core content (dungeons) is entirely different in layout. You couldn't play Ocarina of Time and then claim to know where to go and what to do in Majora's mask. I for one wouldn't want 2 games to be as different as ICO an SotC. I want the core gameplay to be relatively conserved because it's damn awesome and what makes this series unique from others.

 

Your mentality still seems daft to me. Why you would claim not to use stones of epemeral eyes but then claim to soul farm seems completely double standards. You shouldn't need to soul farm in this game, that really does make it easy.

 

 

If you didn't understand what kindling was until the end then THAT'S why you had so much humanity. By the end you're much less likely to die and lose the humanity. Also if you're going straight from fire to fire without dying much inbetween then that cuts down your humanity usage by half. Obviously you would want to kindle as you go along normally as at earlier levels that is when you really need additional estus. And you can trust me on this, from someone who kindled normally, humanity was not plentiful by any means.

[The Bard]

Sure, the Zelda games are different in terms of the minutia of dungeon layout and the trappings of the hub world, but they've been almost identical since LTTP in terms of the wider structure (Reach new location, explore dungeon, find new item and apply to dungeon specific tasks before a final test in terms of the boss). It needs a new wrinkle because it feels like I've been playing the same game for 10 years.