Zune 2.6/3.0 firmware upgrade features leaked!

[Guest Jordan]

Its that time of year again, MS look like they're immently releasing the new Zune 16 and 120 (as well as the new blue 8gb Zune) and along with these come new firmware updates. Oh and of course these updates will probably be completely free and work on all previous devices (4, 8, 30, 80)

 

This could possibly get released today! The new features are:

 

“Device to Cloud” - allows you to use wireless hotspots to update your collection, browse Zune Marketplace, refresh Channels (see below), exchange favorites with friends, or buy songs you’ve tagged from FM radio

 

“Channels” - these are ‘custom programming stations’ that deliver personalized playlists to your Zune

 

“Games” - these have been out in beta, and now look like they’re official. In fact, the Fry’s specs say that free games will come preloaded on Zune players, including Texas Hold’em and Hexic.

 

"Buy from FM" - “Listen to your favorite FM radio stations and click to tag the songs you like for later purchase when you sync your device with your PC”

 

I know like only 2 other people have Zune's on this board. But these are seriously defining features. Not sure how many will work in the UK but, the Zune may become the "XBOX360" of mp3 players, a sort of "hardcore" music device.

[Jasper]

Waw. Sound like, well, honestly, I can't say. These all sound like features I won't need or want, so it's just plain stupid. Microsoft, focus. The reason Apple got this far is because they focused on what's important for the device - being a great MP3 player is more important than being a great little-of-everything. This sounds like an off-beat unneccesarry update.

 

And please, XBOX360 of MP3 players? Come on, people don't even develop for this using the XNA - there aren't even more than two million sold zunes out there, there is barely any market for this. Microsoft needs to start getting their act together and stop making random things happen in rnadom places. FOCUS.

[Guest Jordan]

Waw. Sound like, well, honestly, I can't say. These all sound like features I won't need or want, so it's just plain stupid. Microsoft, focus.

 

So you've never heard a song on the radio on your iPod (with the radio accessory...) thought "thats a good song!" and the DJ doesn't say what the song is and then you forget about it? Or you've never wanted to wirelessly sync your podcasts? Or browse the iTunes store (on a normal iPod, I know you can on the Touch)? Or send DRM free content to other Zunes?

 

The reason Apple got this far is because they focused on what's important for the device - being a great MP3 player is more important than being a great little-of-everything. This sounds like an off-beat unneccesarry update.

 

How do you come to this conclusion? It involves (mostly) new features around music. Custom downloadable on the fly playlists!

 

And please, XBOX360 of MP3 players? Come on, people don't even develop for this using the XNA - there aren't even more than two million sold zunes out there, there is barely any market for this. Microsoft needs to start getting their act together and stop making random things happen in rnadom places. FOCUS.

 

Yeahhh, thats because XNA beta for the Zune has only just started. People haven't really started developing on it mostly due to the games menu being hidden unless you directly upload the data/game/app to the Zune.

 

Also, I didn't mean in a gaming sense. The 360 is generally seen is a hardcore only console, this could be an audiophile's MP3 player. Also, ironically Zune now has 4% market share... which is the same as Apple's iMac/Macbook lines share in the PC market. Zing.

[thirtynine.]

It couldnt be an audio[hiles player as it doesnt do flac. Does it?

Man I want a zune but m$ are balls and refuse to release it here.

[AeroScap]

Tbh in terms of mp3 firmware as long as its free and doesnt REDUCE the features I dont think we have a right to complain! Unlike where I was paying for the 2.0 firmware like with the ipod touch and its balls! (SMS and Mail app lag etc) then we might have some ground to complain.

 

I think MS should just do what they are doing in the console war! outright copy people then add some extra features! Caus atm they are hoping like with nintendo that there is enough people in this "hardcore" (even though they dont do flac) market to fund their player but frankly there isnt as much as what the ipods got.

 

Out right copy people and have te lay public unable to tell the difference between the players then reduce the price caus you can afford to.

 

 

(btw this isnt knocking MS this is just a statement of what they should do to gain a few % of market share)

 

EDIT: Btw no zune in UK, MS = fags

[McPhee]

Waw. Sound like, well, honestly, I can't say. These all sound like features I won't need or want, so it's just plain stupid. Microsoft, focus. The reason Apple got this far is because they focused on what's important for the device - being a great MP3 player is more important than being a great little-of-everything. This sounds like an off-beat unneccesarry update.

 

And please, XBOX360 of MP3 players? Come on, people don't even develop for this using the XNA - there aren't even more than two million sold zunes out there, there is barely any market for this. Microsoft needs to start getting their act together and stop making random things happen in rnadom places. FOCUS.

 

So what actually makes these updates bad again? And in what way does the Zune actually fail to compete with the iPod (other than not being quite so polished on features that the iPod doesn't actually have)?

 

Regardless, it's a different market. People buy Zunes over iPods for the same reason that people buy HTC phones over the iPhone. They like the extra features and the extra freedom that these devices allow. By following Apple's lead these manufacturers would be alienating these users and trying to steal customers from Apple instead, it's not a sensible business move.

[Jasper]

In Short

- FM tagging and buying: battery drain or no-feature (or playlists from radios)

- Following Apple in Playlists and The Guessing Game Especially For You

- Games are an old feature, XNA unused, developers want big install basses

- Microsoft, catch up and get ahead of the game

 

You know, I didn't say it was bad. I only said it wasn't really great news and the features I saw described are not attractive to me. But if I must go in defense, you're getting kicked in the crotch.

 

First of all, if it's FM radio tagging then there will be two major hurdles: Microsoft does not have a playlist of these radio stations, so they can't know what song it is. Except if your Zune listens to it and tries to recognize it - and that will eat your battery power. So it either will work and drain your battery like blood springing from an open heart, or it won't work.

 

Apple already offers customized playlists, smart playlists and iMixes. I don't think that this features doesn't follow in what Apple is doing - and if Microsoft is pushing these playlists to you, well, we all know how little Microsoft knows about users, and if they get to trace your music habbit you can be sure that they'll store the data and maybe even use it to get you to buy stuff. (Unused desktop icons? Come on, I placed them there, don't make me do things I don't want to do, Microsoft, and don't know better than me!) I'm sure, though, that I don't really get the special part of this feature: is it Microsoft suggesting music? Or is it just the Zune digging through the library? Anyway, I don't see the upside of this with a device that only has WiFi.

 

Games are already on the iPod (not following the leader, Microsoft? That's Bullshit), and the iPod Touch and iPhone are thriving platforms with games on them and more of them coming. XNA has been in beta for a long time and Microsoft, as I believe, showed this feature for the Zune about half a year ago - and they're finally delivering it, better late then never. I still doubt that there is a market for this, since the Zune market just isn't big (now don't attack me on this, it's a fact - if you can choose to sell to millions of consumers or ten millions, your choice is easy).

 

By following Apple's lead these manufacturers would be alienating these users and trying to steal customers from Apple instead, it's not a sensible business move.

 

They are trying to steal from Apple, wich is - considered their market - the only thing to do. Microsoft already stole users from all PlayForSure makers in America, but barely touched into the iPod market - so that failed. Why should you follow Apple? Because they make a good product - and that's what they're supposed to do. Every company wants to make a good product, and Apple is doing that. Now for Microsoft to win, they should not try to think away from Apple - it's exactly those iPod features that made iPods attractive (that, and the ease of use, wich I've heard is good enough on the Zune too - but not widely known, that). Microsoft should follow Apple - no, they should catch-up with Apple and then lead the market. The problem is that the Zune still hasn't reached the ease-of-use and functionality the iPod does and their hardware is always hopping a year behind Apple's. They copy Apple a year later, and at the same time Apple upgrades again. We'll see if I'm right tomorrow, when Apple will have a supposedly big event (even though their new Nano has leaked, they say they still have big cards) - so maybe Apple has all this, and more -and they will still be ahead, or maybe they won't and Microsoft will have a good year to finally get the iPod into the Zune (sorry, guys).

 

If Microsoft can focus, they can catch up and they can lead the long run, but we'll see tomorrow before I compare too much.

[Guest Jordan]

Jesus christ, you don't half talk shit Jasper... even when others are trying to contribute.

 

*sigh*

[Jackster]

Looks good. Actually looks really good. And it's free so you can't really complain. I'm definitely more impressed with Microsoft here than Apple who are quite frankly a bunch of assholes when it comes to MP3 player updates, they make an arse of it then charge you for it.

 

Hope Zune comes to Europe soon. Also hope iPhone OS 2.1 comes out tomorrow and sorts all the bloody LAG!

[Jasper]

Jesus christ, you don't half talk shit Jasper... even when others are trying to contribute.

 

*sigh*

 

I think I've made my contribution, and eveybody saying 'Nice' isn't really the purpose of a forum either. But sorry for me English, but I don't get yours. Is it a good or a bad thing not half-talking shit? Because this one seems like a double denial or something, the language part that confuses me even in French (yes, I know my share of French - but don't ask, since I don't practice it).

[AeroScap]

You know, I didn't say it was bad. I only said it wasn't really great news and the features I saw described are not attractive to me. But if I must go in defense, you're getting kicked in the crotch.

 

First of all, if it's FM radio tagging then there will be two major hurdles: Microsoft does not have a playlist of these radio stations, so they can't know what song it is. Except if your Zune listens to it and tries to recognize it - and that will eat your battery power. So it either will work and drain your battery like blood springing from an open heart, or it won't work.

 

You've seen DAB radios right? How do they know? All the stations broadcast a code in the radio which allows compatible devices to display the song information i.e. song name, length etc. All the power that is concerned that would be taken up would be to power the extra lettering on the screen. The rest is just code. So dont be silly.

 

 

Apple already offers customized playlists, smart playlists and iMixes. I don't think that this features doesn't follow in what Apple is doing - and if Microsoft is pushing these playlists to you, well, we all know how little Microsoft knows about users, and if they get to trace your music habbit you can be sure that they'll store the data and maybe even use it to get you to buy stuff.

 

Like the BUILT IN APP store. ALSO speaking of trying to get you to buy stuff, I am sticking with 1.1.4 and everytime i sync i need to click "no thanks" to not install 2.0 (which costs). Trying to sell me something right there.

 

 

(Unused desktop icons? Come on, I placed them there, don't make me do things I don't want to do, Microsoft, and don't know better than me!) I'm sure, though, that I don't really get the special part of this feature: is it Microsoft suggesting music? Or is it just the Zune digging through the library? Anyway, I don't see the upside of this with a device that only has WiFi.

granted the zune has wasted its wifi features by not having a browser for internet. You cant sell its wifi capabilities on music sharing alone.

 

Games are already on the iPod (not following the leader, Microsoft? That's Bullshit),

 

Phones have games on mobile devices. Following the leader Apple? Very general point bent to the appropriate situation. Poor point their jasp.

 

 

Why should you follow Apple? Because they make a good product

Just want to clarify you know the above statement is your opinion and NOT fact right?

 

.

 

There was just a few points I want to address there.

[Jasper]

Honestly dude, iPods are good products because the general public considers them to be - that's why they sell, say, seventy times more products than the Zune? Surely that must mean something.

 

In America, DAB could be usefull, but I don't listen radio and Belgium doesn't use DAB. And I'm talking about playlists, not app pushing or update to 2.0-madness. Yes, you pay for itn but in my eyes it's worth that meagre 9 euros, nine for god sake, and what you get is great.

 

I'm not saying APple is original with it's platform, I'm saying that it's making the right choices and that shows in sales. iPhone and iPod Touch is a bigger platform than any single mobile phone out there and it has a single, defined feature set making it nice for developers to work on - because they don't have to worry about iPhones without a touchsreen, or accelerometers. They can make great games without worrying about those hundreds different phones out there, while they still have a large install base. Zune also offers a unified platform, but much less usefull for gaming (like iPod Games, they suck) and with a much smaller installed base.

 

And I wasn't attacking Microsoft nor the Zune, I was trying to tell how they can actually improve it - and don't tell me they don't need to look at Apple, because everything concerning msic that Microsoft did has failed and Apple was the only one to succeed - now exactly who had the right end of the stick, then?

[Wesley]

I'm really excited about these features. The channels and the games sound awesome. Plus more use out of the wireless is only a good thing.

[Guest Jordan]

Microsoft did has failed and Apple was the only one to succeed - now exactly who had the right end of the stick, then?

 

Two reasons iPod succeded:

1, Image - Apparently they're "cool"

2, Rabbid assed fanbase.

[Jasper]

Two reasons iPod succeded:

1, Image - Apparently they're "cool"

 

And who exactly failed in being cool with their devices? I'm sorry, but you can't just put these two reasons up and deny that they are important. Apple apparantly knows marketing and Microsoft doesn't (look at their latest ad with Bill and Jerry - it just doesn't say a thing, except that Bill Gates (estimated to be worth more than half the northern hemisphere of farmland on Mars) buys really, really cheap shoes at a discount.)

 

2, Rabbid assed fanbase.

 

That's just silly. You're not telling me that 75 million iPods sold is just the Appel fanbase? You're just farfetching here - stop defending Microsoft on this one. They started PlayForSure, it failed (because nobody wants to buy subscriptions to music and find that their library explodes after a year and be required to check in every month to see if it's still good). Then they ditched their PlayForSure partners, launched Zune with a DRM called PlayForSure, but not compatible with all the PlayForSure already avaible out there. They ate all their North-American partners that used it and didn't even come close to eating into iPod sales.

 

I'm not saying Apple is perfect - I payed 17,99 euros for the January Software Update on my iPod (after waiting two months, outraged that they were charging for it) and I had to pay again, 9 euros - let's not forget that they included the January Software Update in there for the full price of 9 euros - so I threw away 17,99. That's not fair either. The major difference is that Apple makes good systems that don't do too much (and thus don't need an extensive feature list on the back of the box) and not too little (so they don't have to brand the thing 'MP3-player' and leave it at that). It does things people want: listen to music, watch videos and synchronize content without too much hassle.

 

Don't tell me that Microsoft didn't take a peek or two at Apple's iconic product before they started working on the Zune - even the phrase 'Hello From Seattle' is just a copy of 'Designed by Apple in California'. Now Microsoft tries to differntiate with features that are not really used. I'll be honest - there are a lot of features in my iPod touch that, at first, seemed like the Wow was then, and there - but now they're just everyday functions of wich most I don't even touch. But Apple makes a good iPod, it sells, it's perfectly marketed, and I'm sorry to tell you that that has everything to do with the incompetence of Microsoft within this marketplace - and well, let's face it, in about every marketplace that offers direct contact with consumers.

 

I didn't want to make this a comparison, but there's no way around it: Microsoft wanted this to be the iPod-killer and I don't see them doing that with these new features.

 

I understand myself that Apple fans are mostly smugg and annoying people (I've experienced it first-hand on aquataskforce.com) and I like them as much as you do (I'm also looking at Emasher here), but that doesn't mean that Apple didn't make a good product that is liked by the general public and that's - let's face it - selling like hotcakes.

 

Apple nailed it - a product is not just a product, it's marketing, fame, quality, integration, name - and Microsoft just didn't. Yet.

 

PLUS (edit)

FM tagging relies on Radio Data System (or RT+) data feeds that provide artist and song information. If RDS information is available, Zune users will be able to tag the song by simply clicking a menu item. If a WiFi hotspot is in range, the song can be downloaded immediately from the Zune Marketplace (especially useful for holders of a subscription Zune Pass).

 

ARS Technica

[McPhee]

You know what the big problem is here? You only see one good way of making a product; the Apple way.

 

There are other ways, plenty of alternatives out there. As i've said before, Apple don't cater for every market, so if you can take a significant slice of some other pie then that makes releasing a product like this worth every penny. The Zune didn't 'fail', it carved out it's own section of an overcrowded marketplace.

 

Honestly dude, iPods are good products because the general public considers them to be - that's why they sell, say, seventy times more products than the Zune? Surely that must mean something.

 

The general public consider a lot of things to be good because they come in shiny packaging.

 

[Jasper]

Yes, they do, but do you really consider iPods bad? Are they selling just because of shiny packaging? Are they bad products?

 

Zune was marketed and named the 'iPod Killer' from Microsoft, so it's fair to compare it. Also, the Zune has sold far fewer devices. Microsoft, being a company, has benefit at selling to the biggest avaible market. If Microsoft puts the Zune is a shiny packaging (wich they do), then they cater for that same market. And honestly, Bush is not the comparison here - you're comparing politics to consumer electronics, wich to me seems a little farfetched.

 

You know what the big problem is here? The only people who post here seem to be fanatic enough (or hating Apple enough) to just accept that this is the bestest thing ever for the Zune - it's not, the Zune should be better in other areas. I'm not saying iPods are the bestest thing ever, but here's the thing: marketing makes 80 percent of the product and Apple nailed it, bigtime. Also, iPods are decent and good devices that do what they advertise and where the general public is happy about.

 

If we're making the analogy to Bush here anyway, let's go down that route McPhee. Eight years ago, Apple introduced the iPod as well (okay, seven years ago) - Bush came into the White House, fresh from the shiny campaign. Eight years later, consumers are still happy with the iPod while Bush is going to be beaten by a Black President - for conservative America, this will be huge (yes, the emphasis is on black, because America is the land of racism just as well). Apple still makes good iPods, and people are still happy about them. Bush made good wars (winning and all), but people are not happy about him (wich is, again, understandable). Here's the catch McPhee: if consumers don't like your products, they don't keep buying. The iPod got popular from advertisements, shiny packaging and word-of-mouth. The Zune did fail because it set out to beat Bush and failed bigtime (like, uhm, who was that guy again that ran for president four years ago when Bush re-entered the White House?). Your comparison is bullocks.

 

Okay, here's the problem: everybody assumes that, because I've got a mac and I defended Apple back in the day that they were biased for everything (and they're still), I set out to reply here and convince everyone iPods are better. I'm not trying that. I'm only offering pointers to Microsoft here - where they are wrong and where they could be better. Apple isn't perfect, far from, but they sell. The only fair and honest way to see wich product is better is to look at the numbers. We live in a democracy, and that means that if the majority of the people choose for something that it is law.

 

Let's offer a different look. If you start a webstore now, will you make it look and work like Amazon? Off course, because that's what users expect. If you built a photo editing application, will you leave features like the layers palette out because Photoshop has it? If you release a professional photo-editor, you better make damn sure that your application contains layers - or you are royaly screwed. If you build a forum, will you make it work like this one? Off course, because that's what a forum is.

 

No matter how you twist or turn it, Microsoft and Apple are both in the Portable Media Player market, and Apple is doing a great job - is it advertising? Ss it a good product? That doesn't even matter - the numbers dictate that, if you make an PMP, you better make it have the features the iPod has and more, or you won't be able to overthrow the big seller.

 

Zune intended to kill iPod, it failed. Now it's just trying to say that it didn't set out to do that at all - it just wanted it's own market. But, McPhee, if a product has it's own market, than an average consumer can have both without them overlapping. But right now, the American (and Canadian) consumer in the store will choose between an iPod and a Zune. Not buy both. So Apple is doing a better job (because they sell more iPods than Microsoft even ships Zunes) - and don't say 'That's because it's named iPod!' - it's named iPod, and it was named iPod before it became popular. But it became popular and the Zune didn't.

 

Stop being babies saying that everything Apple does is necesarilly bad, and stop being pussies hiding behind the Zune just to not have to admit that it's not beating the iPod at the moment. Microsoft failed where Apple succeeded and no matter where you look at it, it needs to defeat Apple on the points that Apple won - may it be shiny packaging and advertising, or good products.

 

DISCLAIMER: don't inerpret me as a racist, because those are not my intentions. I'd love a black president, just for the look on the KKK's faces when this happens - it'll be big, and maybe it'll change the attitude of America a little bit.

[AeroScap]

and if Microsoft is pushing these playlists to you, well, we all know how little Microsoft knows about users, and if they get to trace your music habbit you can be sure that they'll store the data and maybe even use it to get you to buy stuff.

 

I'm sorry but

 

Genius Sidebar

While you reacquaint yourself with the music you already own, let Genius introduce you to new music you’ll love. As you select songs in your library, the Genius sidebar displays songs from the iTunes Store that go great with it. The Genius sidebar won’t recommend songs already in your library, and you can preview and buy recommended songs directly from the sidebar.

 

From the Apple website

 

Very unlucky comment to make, only to turn around and have Apple do that to you.

[Jasper]

Well, I never said Apple was any better on that. Thank god I got that Genious sidebar off there, I hate it when Apple assumes I want that store popping up in my library.

 

anyways, seems like the Genious thing is the same as Microsofts playlist idea, only much more advertised. Nothing interesting to see over at Apple (the new hardware looks good), but this is Microsoft's chance: this year they can make the Zune as good and full-featured as an iPod, and more. Come on, I want to see microsoft see something good for once.

[Guest Jordan]

Nothing interesting to see over at Apple (the new hardware looks good), but this is Microsoft's chance: this year they can make the Zune as good and full-featured as an iPod, and more. Come on, I want to see microsoft see something good for once.

 

But... the Zune 80/120 currently does and will have even more features than the iPod classic. Which is what it should be compared to, a HDD based player.

[ReZourceman]

Wow.

 

 

 

 

Zunes rule.

[Guest Jordan]

Find someone in the US to set you up a US hotmail account and sign in on the Zune site, set up a Zunetag and accept the terms and conditions.

 

Then set your region on your computer (control panel > regional and language options) to United States (don't worry, this doesn't effect anything else) then you can use MixView and the Marketplace.

 

Oh and "Welcome to the social." :p I think Letty is probably going to end up buying a Zune eventually, she loves streaming music to my Zune 80.

[ReZourceman]

Find someone in the US to set you up a US hotmail account and sign in on the Zune site, set up a Zunetag and accept the terms and conditions.

 

Then set your region on your computer (control panel > regional and language options) to United States (don't worry, this doesn't effect anything else) then you can use MixView and the Marketplace.

 

Oh and "Welcome to the social." :p I think Letty is probably going to end up buying a Zune eventually, she loves streaming music to my Zune 80.

 

Thanks for the tip, Ill do it tonight.

[Guest Jordan]

Just out of interest, what colour/capacity did you get?

[ReZourceman]

8GB Red. I love how the menus the same colour as the thing!