The fish Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 As far as im concerned Religition in general has been given ideas above its station. Faith should be a personal thing. Then tell evangelist Christians to get out of schools in the UK (look at the ones up North that teach creationism as science), and Saudi Arabia to stop being so misogynistic. I agree with you, believe whatever the hell you wish, just don't try and convert me, consider alternatives, and please, please, please be ready to admit you're wrong if an alternative is demonstratable by scientific means. *glares at young-earthists and creationists* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Sorry Fish, I can't agree with you here. Just because it's called Islamic Law and the West doesn't follow that law system doesn't mean that we shouldn't respect the philosophy that Muslims live by. In this case though, it is stupid beacuse these cartoons were not drawn by Muslims... This arguement really annoys me. People in Saudi want to live there, they agree to the laws of the country just like you do by living here. You obviously hate the fact that they "do that to their people" but you have no right to make any judgement on how they live their lives. They just have different life philosophies to you. You can't just say that it's wrong because its different. Why should we respect their philosophies when they can't respect ours? (in this case the danes') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Read the sentence after the one that you bolded Moogle, I'm referring to the situation generally in my statement but I don't support the threats made to the Danish newspaper. I find the "why should I if they won't" arguement to hold no water whatsoever and also to be incredibly childish. I don't support the cartoon either; I think that they were free to use their intelligence and realise that it was in bad taste and not print it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Read the sentence after the one that you bolded Moogle, I'm referring to the situation generally in my statement but I don't support the threats made to the Danish newspaper. I find the "why should I if they won't" arguement to hold no water whatsoever and also to be incredibly childish. I don't support the cartoon either; I think that they were free to use their intelligence and realise that it was in bad taste and not print it. Why? I get sick of being told to respect other people's beliefs when they don't give a toss about ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Because you are making your judgements about a whole group of people based on the actions of a non-representative collection. On top of this, these facts have been reported to you via the media which will (however slightly) colour that information. I don't see any problem with rising above other peoples crap. Just because they are wankers doesn't mean that I have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I find the "why should I if they won't" arguement to hold no water whatsoever and also to be incredibly childish. I don't respect ideas because they're demonstratably bullshit or actively against one's human rights. (Before you say it, yes, I know about my highly simplified hydrogen car model ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I don't respect ideas because they're demonstratably bullshit or actively against one's human rights. Sorry Fish, which ideas and belonging to who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Because you are making your judgements about a whole group of people based on the actions of a non-representative collection. On top of this, these facts have been reported to you via the media which will (however slightly) colour that information. I don't see any problem with rising above other peoples crap. Just because they are wankers doesn't mean that I have to be. I tried that and it wasn't me. I prefer to be a wanker to those who deserve it and a nice guy to the others. Give me a license to kill and I'll clean up the world. Sorry Fish, which ideas and belonging to who? PS: it should be whom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Sorry Fish, which ideas and belonging to who? Any ideas. If an alternative is scientifically demonstratable when it comes to "factual" ideas, or if it is in violation of human rights for moral/social ones, then it can piss off. Give me a license to kill and I'll clean up the world. I don't think I made it clear - any GLA secret agents have one by default. :awesome: Now go forth and smite some wrong-doers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Any ideas. If an alternative is scientifically demonstratable when it comes to "factual" ideas, or if it is in violation of human rights for moral/social ones, then it can piss off. Hmmm... surely those people with those views could say the same to you for being such a bigot though? This is how wars start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Hmmm... surely those people with those views could say the same to you for being such a bigot though? This is how wars start. I reserve the right to discriminate against individuals who are demonstratably wrong and/or criminal under UN law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I tried that and it wasn't me. I prefer to be a wanker to those who deserve it and a nice guy to the others. Great. Double standards never hurt anyone did it? I reserve the right to discriminate against individuals who are demonstratably wrong and/or criminal under UN law. Now you're making sense. I'd still stay clear of using words like "wrong" though, it has no absolute definition. On top of that if you say that someone is doing something that is "wrong" then you are superimposing your belief of what is wrong onto their actions and they just might not share your meaning of the word. I don't like it but hey. And as a side note: UN law is not written by a collection that represents all of the cultures around the world, mostly western ones. Using UN law as such a rule book could lead to imposing western philosophies on unwelcoming countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Great. Double standards never hurt anyone did it? Whats wrong with that? I've tried to be mr nice guy but people just piss all over you. Don't expect to be able to throw a tantrum and still expect to be given toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Now you're making sense. I'd still stay clear of using words like "wrong" though, it has no absolute definition. On top of that if you say that someone is doing something that is "wrong" then you are superimposing your belief of what is wrong onto their actions and they just might not share your meaning of the word. I don't like it but hey. And as a side note: UN law is not written by a collection that represents all of the cultures around the world, mostly western ones. Using UN law as such a rule book could lead to imposing western philosophies on unwelcoming countries. To put it more accurately, I reserve the right to discriminate against individuals who's claims are scientifically demonstratably incorrect or have no (genuine, scientific) evidence supporting them, or that impose controls on people for no demonstratable, logical and rational reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Whats wrong with that? I've tried to be mr nice guy but people just piss all over you. Don't expect to be able to throw a tantrum and still expect to be given toys. But cacking on people who shit on you just leads to escalation and cyclic malice. You need to break the loop somewhere and you don't sound ready to take that responsibility. And the toy anology doesn't work. The best response is to do nothing but what you seem to be suggesting would be to have a tantrum back. To put it more accurately, I reserve the right to discriminate against individuals who's claims are scientifically demonstratably incorrect or have no (genuine, scientific) evidence supporting them, or that impose controls on people for no demonstratable, logical and rational reason. As I said before, people are in Saudi because the want to be and they agree to those laws by living there. I don't think I can broaden your view on this (that's what I'm trying to do, not change it). All I can suggest is putting yourself in the shoes of what you would think of as the opposition. Your views seem to be very black and white and you judge harshly. I find it worrying that you seem to like using the word discriminate. But hey, you is you right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 But cacking on people who shit on you just leads to escalation and cyclic malice. You need to break the loop somewhere and you don't sound ready to take that responsibility. And the toy anology doesn't work. The best response is to do nothing but what you seem to be suggesting would be to have a tantrum back. Well obviously I'm not going to go looking for dick heads. But if somebody starts treating me like dirt then I'm going to treat them like dirt back. If somebody is kind to me then I will be kind back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well obviously I'm not going to go looking for dick heads. But if somebody starts treating me like dirt then I'm going to treat them like dirt back. If somebody is kind to me then I will be kind back. You don't see what I mean about the viscous cycle then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 You don't see what I mean about the viscous cycle then? Yeah I know what you mean. I just don't agree. Some people will never change so why let them treat you like shit? And if they could change surely letting them be complete arseholes will stop them from changing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 And if they could change surely letting them be complete arseholes will stop them from changing? How do you figure that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 How do you figure that? Well if you let a child draw on the walls and throw it's food on the floor, then it will continue to draw on the walls and throw it's food on the floor. If you show it some discipline then it will hopefully stop doing said things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McPhee Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I tried that and it wasn't me. I prefer to be a wanker to those who deserve it and a nice guy to the others. Give me a license to kill and I'll clean up the world. Where have i heard that before? Oh yeah, i remember now. It's what that guy wanted to do... Some of you are plain ignorant. Different cultures think in different ways, visit some of these places and you will see a completely different attitude to life, what makes ours the right one? Every culture has areas that others see as idiotic, every point of view has areas that someone will see as stupid, it's the way the world works. There is NO right, NO wrong, only choice. If someone asked me what pisses me off about Liberals more than anything else it's that. They forget that the most valuable human trait is choice. Well if you let a child draw on the walls and throw it's food on the floor, then it will continue to draw on the walls and throw it's food on the floor. If you show it some discipline then it will hopefully stop doing said things. Who decides what type of dicipline is the right kind though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Some of you are plain ignorant. Different cultures think in different ways, visit some of these places and you will see a completely different attitude to life, what makes ours the right one? Who decides what type of dicipline is the right kind though? 1) In their own country I don't mind what they do. It's their culture, their rules. However when they are in our country (or other western countries) they should abide by our rules. It shouldn't be one rule for them and one rule for everyone else. 2) Like I said before I will treat somebody as they treat me. If somebody is nice to me I'll be nice to them. If they are a prick to me I'll be a prick to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McPhee Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 1) In their own country I don't mind what they do. It's their culture, their rules. However when they are in our country (or other western countries) they should abide by our rules. It shouldn't be one rule for them and one rule for everyone else. Spot on i think. I wasn't really getting at you, even though it was you i quoted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the great Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 mooglevoper speaks reams of sense. ive alwys been of the view that freedom of speach is good. if i think muslim law is stupid, i can say. if i think the hallocaust was exadurated (i dont think this at all), i can say. I hate the BNP. i think there a bunch of racist arseholes, but i support their right to share their views. its down to the individual to dicide on their belifes. if a cartoon offends you. to bad. get a fucking life. if you threaten the artist with death, your kinda proving his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 mooglevoper speaks reams of sense. ive alwys been of the view that freedom of speach is good. if i think muslim law is stupid, i can say. if i think the hallocaust was exadurated (i dont think this at all), i can say. I hate the BNP. i think there a bunch of racist arseholes, but i support their right to share their views. its down to the individual to dicide on their belifes. if a cartoon offends you. to bad. get a fucking life. if you threaten the artist with death, your kinda proving his point. I'm glad that you agree with me, but were you drunk when you typed this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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