Timesplitters 4 announced!

[mcj metroid]

Because they are then?

 

so you're a casual gamer then?

jeez what got your knickers in a twist today? If you need to vent your anger do it somewhere else.

[jammy2211]

so you're a casual gamer then?

jeez what got your knickers in a twist today? If you need to vent your anger do it somewhere else.

 

I'm not in the majority, no.

[mcj metroid]

I'm not in the majority, no.

 

......most game players ARE casual with every system... always has been FOREVER.

[jammy2211]

......most game players ARE casual with every system... always has been FOREVER.

 

True.

 

I didn't say otherwise?

[Gizmo]

Most likely for the same reason that most 360 fans think all Wii owners are casuals.

 

I'd suggest that most 360 fans do not think all Wii owners are casuals. I'm a Wii owner, and I wouldn't classify myself as a casual.

 

The reason for all those sales of Carnival Games? The large proportion of Wii owners who are. The low sales of CoD Wii? The small proportion of Wii owners who aren't.

 

Ergo, my opinion is backed up by facts. Your opinion is not.

[Emasher]

But clearly not all Wii owners are casual. Look at Mario Galaxy. it sold almost as well as Halo 3. So did brawl. I know not all 360 owners think like that, thats why I said "most" and there are a good number of 360 owners who do think all Wii owners are casual gamers, I talk to people like that everyday.

 

As long as they are marketed good hardcore games do sell well on the Wii. Mario Galaxy and Brawl were marketed well and so they sold well. Metroid Prime 3 and CoD:W@W weren't marketed well so they sold bad, regardless of the feasibility of marketing them. Badly made hardcore games don't sell on the Wii, the only reason they sell on other consoles is that mainstream gamers don't read reviews and generally don't know what they're buying and so they buy crappy games. On the Wii Good hardcore games like Brawl and Mario Galaxy will sell if they are marketed properly. And I don't know why people keep bringing up carnival games, it only sold like 3 million copies. Metroid Prime 3 sold half as well with pretty much no marketing, and being a niche game.

 

8 Million or so people who will buy hardcore games on a console if they know about them is a big enough audience to prove that there are hardcore gamers on the console. I know some casuals will buy it also, but its not like Mainstream gamers don't buy hardcore games on other consoles.

[jammy2211]

But clearly not all Wii owners are casual. Look at Mario Galaxy. it sold almost as well as Halo 3. So did brawl. I know not all 360 owners think like that, thats why I said "most" and there are a good number of 360 owners who do think all Wii owners are casual gamers, I talk to people like that everyday.

 

I think using first party sales on a Nintendo console is a bit misguided, there are a large number of Nintendo fans who own the Wii and pretty much only buy Nintendo games. IT's the same sub-section who on the N64 and GameCube allowed the Marios and Smash Bros and Zeldas to so so incredibly well, but saw few third party offerings sell well.

 

I hate trying to use all these terms like hardcore gamers and casual gamers and whatever else to attribute to sales, I think it sort of detracts from why games actually do sell.

 

As long as they are marketed good hardcore games do sell well on the Wii. Mario Galaxy and Brawl were marketed well and so they sold well. Metroid Prime 3 and CoD:W@W weren't marketed well so they sold bad, regardless of the feasibility of marketing them. Badly made hardcore games don't sell on the Wii, the only reason they sell on other consoles is that mainstream gamers don't read reviews and generally don't know what they're buying and so they buy crappy games. On the Wii Good hardcore games like Brawl and Mario Galaxy will sell if they are marketed properly. And I don't know why people keep bringing up carnival games, it only sold like 3 million copies. Metroid Prime 3 sold half as well with pretty much no marketing, and being a niche game.

 

@ bold - LMFAO

 

But yeah, it's unfair to use Nintendo first party sales for anything. Any Mario Platformer will sell big on a Nintendo console cause of the owners of the console I said above. From what I've seen in Wii sales, even more important than quality / marketing is brand, it's why Sonic, House of the Dead and Resident Evil sell, they're house hold names.

 

As for other consoles hardcore owners not reading reviews and buying bad games or something... that logic makes no sense and is just you making stuff up to try and justify numerous fliops on the Wii.

 

8 Million or so people who will buy hardcore games on a console if they know about them is a big enough audience to prove that there are hardcore gamers on the console. I know some casuals will buy it also, but its not like Mainstream gamers don't buy hardcore games on other consoles.

 

8 Million people of which 75% seem to only buy the ones Nintendo release, compared to nearly 50 Million PS360 owners and all the other sales they get on the PC version.

 

The Wii's market for hardcore games is there and publishers are looking to exploit it, but it's never going to be their primary focus on the Wii, nor will it be their primary focus on where to put their biggest franchises and highest-budget games. Aside from the franchises which only sell in Japan, of course.

[Emasher]

I think using first party sales on a Nintendo console is a bit misguided, there are a large number of Nintendo fans who own the Wii and pretty much only buy Nintendo games. IT's the same sub-section who on the N64 and GameCube allowed the Marios and Smash Bros and Zeldas to so so incredibly well, but saw few third party offerings sell well.

 

 

But most other publishers don't market their games as well as Nintendo do. I see adds for Nintendo games all the time, but nothing for 3rd party games, at all. You have to market a game to the audience that there is to buy it. If 3rd parties marketed their games to these Nintendo fans rather than to nobody, perhaps their games would sell better.

 

I hate trying to use all these terms like hardcore gamers and casual gamers and whatever else to attribute to sales, I think it sort of detracts from why games actually do sell.

 

Yes, marketing.

 

@ bold - LMFAO

 

But yeah, it's unfair to use Nintendo first party sales for anything. Any Mario Platformer will sell big on a Nintendo console cause of the owners of the console I said above. From what I've seen in Wii sales, even more important than quality / marketing is brand, it's why Sonic, House of the Dead and Resident Evil sell, they're house hold names.

 

 

But there's a reason titles like this became household names and sell really well. They started out as quality games and were marketed well. People aren't just going to buy a Wii to get 3 or 4 Nintendo games for it. They're going to want to buy a few more games to justify spending $250 on the console. And they'll buy the games that they think will be the best games for their money. If 3rd party games were marketed these people might actually find out about them and buy them.

 

As for other consoles hardcore owners not reading reviews and buying bad games or something... that logic makes no sense and is just you making stuff up to try and justify numerous fliops on the Wii.

 

I said Mainstream. Not hardcore.

 

8 Million people of which 75% seem to only buy the ones Nintendo release, compared to nearly 50 Million PS360 owners and all the other sales they get on the PC version.

 

Again, thats because nothing else is marketed at all.

 

 

The Wii's market for hardcore games is there and publishers are looking to exploit it, but it's never going to be their primary focus on the Wii, nor will it be their primary focus on where to put their biggest franchises and highest-budget games. Aside from the franchises which only sell in Japan, of course.

 

There are a lot of 3rd party Wii games that sell a million or half a million units. And if you compare them to similar efforts on the PS360, they're not really that far behind.

 

But, this is really starting to get pointless now, we've been going in circles for a while.

[jammy2211]

But most other publishers don't market their games as well as Nintendo do. I see adds for Nintendo games all the time, but nothing for 3rd party games, at all. You have to market a game to the audience that there is to buy it. If 3rd parties marketed their games to these Nintendo fans rather than to nobody, perhaps their games would sell better.

 

Marketing costs alot of money, like, millions upon millions. Obviously they'd sell better, but to proof financially viable for the money spent on marketing in the first place? I'm not sure, and if companies are going to invest doing that, why do it to the smaller part of the Wii's market?

 

Marketing figures are sketchy but to add some perspective Wii Fit's marketing campaign has surpassed $100 million. Obviously this is the extreme end, but hopefully will give you some idea on why third parties aren't throwing money at their marketing department.

 

But there's a reason titles like this became household names and sell really well. They started out as quality games and were marketed well. People aren't just going to buy a Wii to get 3 or 4 Nintendo games for it. They're going to want to buy a few more games to justify spending $250 on the console. And they'll buy the games that they think will be the best games for their money. If 3rd party games were marketed these people might actually find out about them and buy them.

 

Pretty much covered this. Marketing costs money, lots and lots of money. EA and Ubisoft are much better at handling their finances then you, if they could market as much as you think they should, they wouldn't be making money.

 

I said Mainstream. Not hardcore.

 

My point still stands.

 

Again, thats because nothing else is marketed at all.

 

Marketing to an audience of 8 million isn't financially viable, especially when the Wii has a much larger audience for other games.

 

There are a lot of 3rd party Wii games that sell a million or half a million units. And if you compare them to similar efforts on the PS360, they're not really that far behind.

 

There are plenty that scrape their way to 500k after a year on the market and reduced prices at retail. Third party Wii games do struggle to hold their price and once retail has cut it, profits are severely reduced in turn. On the other hand it's common for the bulk of PS360 sales to come at full retail price.

 

It does show that there is a market but it's not one which third parties should be putting their primary focus on.

 

But, this is really starting to get pointless now, we've been going in circles for a while.

 

Mainly because you need to get more realistic, you're taking a very simplified view on things, not looking at a wide enough picture.

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/20/casual-games-cost-marketing-moolah-ubisoft-says/

 

That's the only article I can find at all on marketing with a google search. To give you another perspective though, EA cancelled 3 FINISHED Ps2 games last generation. Why? Because they didn't think they would be commercial successes, and thus weren't going to even back the money they spent marketing.

[Emasher]

You know what. I'm not even going to continue with this argument. Neither of us are going to convince the other, there's no point.

 

If you're so pessimistic about the Wii, why even bother coming to the Wii board anyway?

[jammy2211]

You know what. I'm not even going to continue with this argument. Neither of us are going to convince the other, there's no point.

 

If you're so pessimistic about the Wii, why even bother coming to the Wii board anyway?

 

Sigh, just do more reading into this sort of thing. Or continue living in your own little dream world where Wii prints money for everyone and is God's gift to console publishers around the world 0_o.

 

And er, cause I own a Wii. I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic, I don't think Wii isn't going to get hardcore games aplenty and build a following for them. Just not in the way some of you dream.

[mcj metroid]

I'd suggest that most 360 fans do not think all Wii owners are casuals. I'm a Wii owner, and I wouldn't classify myself as a casual.

 

The reason for all those sales of Carnival Games? The large proportion of Wii owners who are. The low sales of CoD Wii? The small proportion of Wii owners who aren't.

 

Ergo, my opinion is backed up by facts. Your opinion is not.

 

i think it's a fact that fps fans are on the 360 and ps3 so it seems clear that if a choice is available that they would go with the 360 .. and who could blame them? better graphic,fantastic on-line play hd.. it has the advantage.. I know the wii has the advantage of control(although im not sure in this game i havent played either) but the wii fps are STILL NEW.. that's another problem..

 

a lot of 360 gamers wouln't be able to see themselves playing a fps game by waving around the wiimote.. Nobody is in doubt the wii's abilities but it's never really been marketed as a fps perfect console...

I said something like this smiliar is another thread and was laughed at about how some people prefer dual anologue to wiimote myself included for some games.

 

I'm still very interested to see how the conduit sells.. I gotta say i'm pesimistic about it though..Internet hype is never enough. I really think.

 

edit: actually i was meant to quote your post about saying how w@W sold better on 360 gizmo

[Rummy]

Topic has dwindled a bit, I've not been to the board for a while, but due to coincidence got reminded of this topic, so I'm posting in it! Thanks to Gizmo for vote of confidence and agreement, I was wondering if I was crazy, didn't see too many people with a similar opinion to mine, fills me up a bit

 

But clearly not all Wii owners are casual. Look at Mario Galaxy. it sold almost as well as Halo 3. So did brawl. I know not all 360 owners think like that, thats why I said "most" and there are a good number of 360 owners who do think all Wii owners are casual gamers, I talk to people like that everyday.

 

As long as they are marketed good hardcore games do sell well on the Wii. Mario Galaxy and Brawl were marketed well and so they sold well. Metroid Prime 3 and CoD:W@W weren't marketed well so they sold bad, regardless of the feasibility of marketing them. Badly made hardcore games don't sell on the Wii, the only reason they sell on other consoles is that mainstream gamers don't read reviews and generally don't know what they're buying and so they buy crappy games. On the Wii Good hardcore games like Brawl and Mario Galaxy will sell if they are marketed properly. And I don't know why people keep bringing up carnival games, it only sold like 3 million copies. Metroid Prime 3 sold half as well with pretty much no marketing, and being a niche game.

 

I see numbers alot(I've cut the post, probably badly, I originally wanted to make another point) but with no idea where they come from. You give the numbers of Galaxy vs Halo, as I highlighted. Ok, in absolute terms, that's still an almost. In relative terms, such as compared to total console sales, that then means Galaxy's sales are much smaller than Halo's, surely? That's sort of my point with TS4. I just thought of something I didn't even mention earlier unless I forgot; I had TimeSplitters 3...and I bought it on Xbox as opposed to Gamecube. I may be an exception, but given my previous fanboy Nintendo loyalty(xbox was my first non-ninty console) I doubt that possibility.

 

Marketing, as well, is a very big deal. Nobody will buy something they're unaware of. Even forget that point, if marketing and advertising wasn't such a big deal then it wouldn't exist, for anything, nor be such a big deal of big business. Do you know how much it costs to buy an advert on television?

 

Games like Brawl and Galaxy sold a large portion I imagine, to people like me. People who'd bought Wiis on arguably false promises, and trying to fulfil those promises with the popular franchises(though Brawl IS a definite good game, superior to its predecessors...but £200 for Brawl, worth it?), then they'd have had some 'casuals' adopt it along the way too, I imagine. Brawl was released in March/May btw, according to the GameFAQs you quoted earlier, their polls of the day shows Brawl to be the Wii game of the year, bit of a poor show nothing in the 9 months following surpassed it? Many people ask me recently about my Wii, I tell them I only really use it for Brawl, and it's a fucking wicked game, but...is £200 for a game really worth it??

 

As far as ports go, costs of producing, marketing, and not selling. Well, the point was made already anyway, but if a game has already been made and you can port it for a relative fraction of the cost(as the development, dyamics, base programming etc has already been paid for and done) and it'll probably sell enough to make profit without marketing, then why not! Profit is profit, no matter how small. To market it to a base that probably won't justify the marketing cost however, will turn that profit into a loss, surely?

 

 

Metroid, I never bought, Echoes was a poor sequel to Prime and I didn't have the monies to risk to afford it at the time. How is it all that niche, though? Could niche be used to describe alot of games on Wii, or maybe even then just any 'hardcore' game on Wii? I've heard it IS a good game, maybe I'll check it out one day, but probably not given what a rip I feel Echoes was. One bitten, twice shy. My point here, whilst a stretch and arguably only good on the principle, people who've previously favoured a wii version to alternative console versions, may have recieved something inferior and wished otheriwse, they may not make that mistake again, either. Basically, there's lots of reasons I can think of to buy TS4 on 360 or PS3, but many less to purchase it on Wii.

[Retro_Link]

News on what would have been the Wii version:

 

http://www.cubed3.com/news/11512

 

Assets from what would have been a version of TimeSplitters 4 for Wii have leaked after problems with Free Radical.

 

According to Unseen 64, the game was in development alongside the bigger PS3/Xbox 360 brothers, but with a smaller team brought in to add some unique Wii-specific features.

 

With the Nottingham-based studio gone into administration, and the team downsized from 185 to 40, it's looking unlikely for TS4 to see a release.

 

 

 

[mcj metroid]

fucking tragedy this game is gone.. Never been more pissed off. Could have really been an excellent wii shooter.. I preferred timeplitters to the likes of halo.. Far better multiplayer and co op but oh noes halo had the better story.The series never got a decent chance at on-line either.

 

sorry i'm just bitter

[tapedeck]

fucking tragedy this game is gone.. Never been more pissed off. Could have really been an excellent wii shooter.. I preferred timeplitters to the likes of halo.. Far better multiplayer and co op but oh noes halo had the better story.The series never got a decent chance at on-line either.

 

sorry i'm just bitter

 

I agree with you mate. The settings, design and general love poured into the titles was wholly refreshing. Even the menus were awesome. I would hope somewhere along the line we see something else from Doak and co.

 

A sad turn of events certainly. I would have thought they were prime devs. for a big company to get a hold of. - Even though, bar TS their output was poor.

[mcj metroid]

I agree with you mate. The settings, design and general love poured into the titles was wholly refreshing. Even the menus were awesome. I would hope somewhere along the line we see something else from Doak and co.

 

A sad turn of events certainly. I would have thought they were prime devs. for a big company to get a hold of. - Even though, bar TS their output was poor.

 

second sight was an impressive title as well that got brilliant reviews all the way though and besides that and the 3 timesplitters games they created haze..

 

1 average title out of 4 classics is a great track record if you ask me.. not to mention the history with goldeneye for the most part.

[Choze]

Second Sight and TS2 were great. Never tried Ts3. Just never had the chance.

 

Real shame. They deserved better and would have loved to see them into this gen. So much crap out there.

 

The market also is not just casual or hardcore. Its much more varied than that. But generally Wii leans most casual.

 

Luckily we have Killzone 2 for our multiplayer needs. The beta for that was just amazing.

 

 

[Zechs Merquise]

Even I must admit that Killzone 2 looks great, except for the crappy acting in the opening movie WTF??? Still, we'll have to wait for the opinions to come in before we really know how great it is.

[Choze]

Even I must admit that Killzone 2 looks great, except for the crappy acting in the opening movie WTF??? Still, we'll have to wait for the opinions to come in before we really know how great it is.

 

It would be filler for TS voice acting

 

Ther's loads of opinions on the game which is why the hype is big. The beta was amazing. Well i am 100% sure about the multiplayer.

[Dante]

Oh Choze is doing the KillZone 2 meme!

The beta where you cant download for free on the PS3 for all users?

[jammy2211]

Oh Choze is doing the KillZone 2 meme!

The beta where you cant download for free on the PS3 for all users?

 

Yeah, like most betas :/.

[Choze]

Oh Choze is doing the KillZone 2 meme!

The beta where you cant download for free on the PS3 for all users?

 

The beta was free. People were randomly selected. No buy this and get code thing. : peace:

 

I would like to see someone make a fps in the spririt of TS. Monkeys with guns!