Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World

[Sheikah]

Fans would know it's a new Tales, instead of a spin-off and would without a shadow of a doubt sell more like that.

 

Then why did Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World do better than Vesperia? I think you just answered that question.

[pedrocasilva]

Then why did Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World do better than Vesperia? I think you just answered that question.

Yes, I just said vesperia would sell more on the Wii than it did on the X360, if that's were this is heading.

 

It's too obvious at this point when a low budget spin-off sells more than a main installment on a worldwide basis and with a budget.

[Sheikah]

I don't know about you, but a lot of people I know want Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World because they loved the first game, while it's kind of hard to be excited about a game you've got no real attachment to. Considering most Tales games are like spin offs with almost carbon copy gameplay (and almost storyline cheeseyness too) I would debate that you could call any Tales games these days a spin-off.

[ghost_zero]

I have to say that I liked Dawn of the New World (not as much as ToS 1 but still).

However, one of the major things I hated about this game was that the other (old ToS) chars couldn't really be leveled up and that you couldn't change their equipment either.

Regarding the world map: Yeah would have been nice to have it, however I have to admit somehow I also liked it a bit to don't have it, especially when you needed to get from one point to another or one town to another because of the quest or something like this (there even was a skit sometime in that game which mentioned "quick-jump").

I think a combination of a normal/full world map and such a map (for quick jumping - AFTER you were once in that town/temple) would be a good idea.

 

Somehow the games is long though. I mean if you think about the missing world map the game isn't that short because if it would have gotten a world map, it would be way longer to play through it.

 

Regarding dungeons: Though they were remapped it was still fun to visit them, especially because some things changed - actually I find many of the puzzles in Dawn of the New World more complicated than most of ToS1 - OK, maybe that is because ToS1 I have played now more often or so - (but yeah new dungeons and some old dungeons would have been better).

 

Not to mention that the ToS cast didn't really tell Marta and Emil what really happened in ToS 1.

I mean I understand that the didn't tell them the world trees name because of their vow or so but not telling them what really happened is a bit strange after they got friends.

 

Wonder if they will make a "real" sequel for that game later on - I highly doubt it though but...

 

Btw. there is one thing I don't get about the end of the game:

Ratatosk said he would re-write the code that there could be life without mana but a bit later he said that eventually life isn't possible without mana and therefore life will still end - however just extremely later (regarding the re-write). Isn't that a bit contradicting though? Did I miss something here?

 

 

 

Regarding the point spin-off:

Actually, I don't think so after all it continues the story. Spin-Offs are side-stories but no direct continuation of the main story and therefore if you ask me calling it a spin-off is wrong.

It might be true to say that it is no main Tales of or not a full Tales of or a low-budget Tales of but nevertheless: Spin-Off is the wrong term if you ask me.

 

Regarding the sales figures:

I wonder how many of those sales are European imports (regarding Dawn of the New World) because with the X360 version that isn't possible (because that game is region-locked and there doesn't currently even exist a mod-chip for the X360 that allows region-locked games to get played on a X360 from another region).

[The-chosen-one]

I played almost all day today, and managed to get to the dungeon after Izoold where you're looking for the rosemary. I'm really starting to enjoy this game now. How do you evolve monsters though, I've got a bunch that are ready for it now.

 

 

You have to feed them at the Katz Guild in every level you see a yellow kid with a Cat Suit if you go thee just feed them and they will evolve you can also do Side quest there or store you other monsters that you have Caught

my Monsters have evolved in pretty cool ones now i,m really addicted to this game

[ghost_zero]

@The-chosen-one:

When was the evolving possibility explained in the game? Because I only noticed it at the end of the game because I needed stronger monsters to defeat

Alice and Decus

 

Interestingly though: With the enemies after those I had no problems at all. They were nearly too easy

 

Ah btw. what I also didn't like was that you couldn't set "Attack Same" as strategy for every char but just a few (but I think that was so with ToS1 too? - I am currently not sure anymore). Here I would also have liked a possibility to give them two strategies at once (wasn't possible in ToS1 either from what I remember), like Frontlines and Attack Same or something like this.

[killer kirby]

I don't know about you, but a lot of people I know want Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World because they loved the first game. While it's kind of hard to be excited about a game you've got no real attachment to.

This I do not get, why don't you compare the Final Fantasy series. Now imagine if you compare Final Fantasy VII (Spin off) to Final Fantasy XII. Main series usually always win, compared to spin offs (And this game is a spin off, I believe a man from Namco even said that himself in an interview, not to sure though)

 

Considering most Tales games are like spin offs with almost carbon copy gameplay (and almost storyline cheeseyness too) I would debate that you could call any Tales games these days a spin-off.

 

But like I mentioned, I think even Namco called it a spin-off and were gloating about Vesperia being there BIG NEW GAME installment.

There are other RPGs around that have always had the same style of gameplay...do we call all of their games spin-offs as well?

[ghost_zero]

Btw.: Is there a possibility somewhere in the game to replay watched skits?

[D_prOdigy]

Btw.: Is there a possibility somewhere in the game to replay watched skits?

 

You could do it Katz Village in the original when you talked to the elder, but I'm really not sure if the same applies to this.

[pedrocasilva]

I don't know about you, but a lot of people I know want Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World because they loved the first game, while it's kind of hard to be excited about a game you've got no real attachment to. Considering most Tales games are like spin offs with almost carbon copy gameplay (and almost storyline cheeseyness too) I would debate that you could call any Tales games these days a spin-off.

That's going around it, look at this thread, most people still want it, because it's symphonia, but would rather have Tales of Vesperia.

 

It's a no brainer, recycled spin-off against a full fledged game that we should have anyway. Symphonia is no FF7, and even then, how many units did FF7 Crisis Core sell? hint: way less than FFX; and it's FF7, who sold 8 million units in Japan alone. Crisis Core? +1.5 million worldwide. And yet, Crisis Core is surely crap on many "fanservice" approachs, but it is NOT half assed like this one, neither did it get negative publicity like this one did for being half assed.

 

If this was Tales of the Radiant Mythology 3 and called like that, it would sell less than it is selling alright (and be a even worse insult than this is) because it would be a mission based dungeon crawler, if instead this was vesperia, it would sell tenfold more. simple.

Btw.: Is there a possibility somewhere in the game to replay watched skits?

Not likely, AFAIK Abyss didn't have that option, let alone any previous Tales.

[ghost_zero]

Regarding Skits:

As D_prodigy already mentioned ToS1 had it, Legendia had it too and I believe some others. However, it is true that Abyss didn't have it (at least I don't know of such a possibility) and I also think ToS Dawn of the New World doesn't have it (or at least I can't find it).

[Sheikah]

This I do not get, why don't you compare the Final Fantasy series. Now imagine if you compare Final Fantasy VII (Spin off) to Final Fantasy XII. Main series usually always win, compared to spin offs (And this game is a spin off, I believe a man from Namco even said that himself in an interview, not to sure though)

 

Final Fantasy is a much bigger thing, though. People massively anticipate the new main titles while new Tales games tend to either not even come out here or just breeze by. Most Tales games are shit anyhow with near identical gameplay, crap stories with predictable twists and typical characters. It just so happens that Symphonia was a solid and fun game that looked and played great (possibly the best Tales game there was), and so people wanted this sequel.

 

Think about it, it can't be that it's just the fact that the Wii is more popular that this has sold better. It's not the mass casual audience buying this game because it really is for people who've played the first game, and they're not casual. Not casual, but numerous. That's why this game sold like hotcakes. A sequel to a really good game. Brand new Tales games are very hit and miss though. A perfect example is Tales of Legendia, which for all intents and purposes is a turd inside a game case.

 

I don't get what your point is trying to make, because this sequel HAS sold better than a new Tales game. Your FF comparisons are clearly not valid because FF and Tales are different series and people have different attitudes to them, clearly.

[ghost_zero]

@Sheikah:

I even prefer Legendia though over Final Fantasy XII (at least in my eyes) and Legendia really wasn't that great (though I somehow liked the story and maybe I am the only one but some music titles I think were great too but otherwise it wasn't good).

I just mentioned this to state that the Final Fantasy series isn't/wasn't that good anymore either. Maybe with XIII it will get better again - who knows.

[pedrocasilva]

Final Fantasy is a much bigger thing, though. People massively anticipate the new main titles while new Tales games tend to either not even come out here or just breeze by. Most Tales games are shit anyhow with near identical gameplay, crap stories with predictable twists and typical characters. It just so happens that Symphonia was a solid and fun game that looked and played great (possibly the best Tales game there was), and so people wanted this sequel.

 

Yeah, Tales game's are not worth it for the story, but... *looks at avatar* is that Tidus from FFX? *chuckles* I rather have Tales not even trying than a FFX kind of plot trying to be serious.

wew, we have a Final Fantasy fan here people! these guys still exist!

Think about it, it can't be that it's just the fact that the Wii is more popular that this has sold better. It's not the mass casual audience buying this game because it really is for people who've played the first game, and they're not casual. Not casual, but numerous. That's why this game sold like hotcakes. A sequel to a really good game.

Who cares? just comes to say what every single one of us knew, and said when we got shoveled.

 

You're too "this is black, that is white", and stuff doesn't work like that, Super Smash Bros Brawl already sold more than Super Smash Bros Melee in 5 years, let's explain it's the core userbase buying it? of course, the core userbase will pick it, and then some; same for this.

 

If anything you could say that the fact that people think they need the first game (who, for some very idiotic/Namco-Bandai kind of reason is out of print) since this is a half assed spin-off could hinder sales; some kind of hindrance you wouldn't have with a new game. So what's the point? ToS fans would value more a new game, of course, and would know how to identify it, and "the masses" would buy it more too; BUT... even when it is a half assed spin-off, rushed, made of recycled assets and that didn't get the same priority treatment by Scamco... it managed to trumph ToV sales, what's the doubt?

 

Are we really perhaps suggesting that a recycled spin-off sells more than a new installment as something erm... natural? only if this is the twilight zone now.

Brand new Tales games are very hit and miss though. A perfect example is Tales of Legendia, which for all intents and purposes is a turd inside a game case.

Well, that's Team Melfes, they aren't even in Tales Studio and are instead a team inside Namco (unlike Tales Studio). They're Soul Calibur Team outcasts.

 

This said, Team Melfes is not bad at all; Legendia might not be the best RPG out there and all, but it is certainly not the worse, has effort, and it is the first one from that team.

I don't get what your point is trying to make, because this sequel HAS sold better than a new Tales game. Your FF comparisons are clearly not valid because FF and Tales are different series and people have different attitudes to them, clearly.

Please! of course they're valid, spin-off's aren't meant to sell as good as new main installments, with bigger budget and market push.

 

Unless their userbase is not all that interested in them.

 

But yeah, let's say nothing is comparable even if to a lesser scale; Dragon Quest spin-off's selling less than numbered ones, Final Fantasy spin-off's selling less than numbered ones, that doesn't create a trend at all! (lol)

 

Different series or not, it IS comparable.

[Sheikah]

wew, we have a Final Fantasy fan here people! these guys still exist!

 

Oh come on, I think anyone with sense would have the decency to admit that Tales games are often very cheesey and don't break the boundaries whatsoever. The battle systems make almost no change between games, the story is usually not as moving and is riddled with cliches (not saying FF games aren't, but Tales more so) and often there's much less effort put into their games (as Legendia and perhaps Symphonia 2 prove).

 

You're too "this is black, that is white", and stuff doesn't work like that, Super Smash Bros Brawl already sold more than Super Smash Bros Melee in 5 years, let's explain it's the core userbase buying it? of course, the core userbase will pick it, and then some; same for this.

 

Again, this is an unfair comparison. Smash Brothers is the kind of game that reaches a much wider audience, and it does not matter if you didn't play the previous games, really. With Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, the story follows on and you honestly probably wouldn't even think anything of buying it unless you had played the original. It's not fair to compare the fact that Brawl sold more than Melee to Symphonia 2 sales. I'd imagine it really is Symphonia 1 fans buying it.

 

If anything you could say that the fact that people think they need the first game (who, for some very idiotic/Namco-Bandai kind of reason is out of print) since this is a half assed spin-off could hinder sales; some kind of hindrance you wouldn't have with a new game. So what's the point? ToS fans would value more a new game, of course, and would know how to identify it, and "the masses" would buy it more too; BUT... even when it is a half assed spin-off, rushed, made of recycled assets and that didn't get the same priority treatment by Scamco... it managed to trumph ToV sales, what's the doubt?

 

IF ToS1 fans wanted a new game why didn't they buy Vesperia more?? This is the point I'm getting at. It did well because people loved Symphonia 1, and it was probably the best (or at least one of the best) Tales games, with arguably the best characters. And as for saying people think they needed to play the first game - it would be silly not to. The second game spoils the story of the first one so I think it'd be ridiculous to buy the second game only for it to spoil the former, better game for you. Especially since someone could buy it and play it on Wii if they wished.

 

Regarding 'people thinking they need ToS as a hindrance' - Symphonia reached such a wide number of people and was loved by so many that I'm pretty sure it still means there's more customers wanting to buy it.

 

 

 

This said, Team Melfes is not bad at all; Legendia might not be the best RPG out there and all, but it is certainly not the worse, has effort, and it is the first one from that team.Please! of course they're valid, spin-off's aren't meant to sell as good as new main installments, with bigger budget and market push.

 

It's one of the worst. Awful, shoddy, half-assed presentation and recycled Symphonia voice actors. It talked about another land invading (IIRC) and you never even visited it. There was a battle scene which laughably consisted of about 3 people on screen, and this was meant to be a war. Gah. Just thinking of that game really riles me. I actually threw it in the dustbin.

 

But yeah, let's say nothing is comparable even if to a lesser scale; Dragon Quest spin-off's selling less than numbered ones, Final Fantasy spin-off's selling less than numbered ones, that doesn't create a trend at all! (lol)

 

Way to catch my drift. My point about Symphonia 2 selling better being regular is not because it is a spin-off, but because it is a sequel to one of the most-loved Tales games and is in itself a fairly good game. Simply put. End of this conversation please, as I feel that you are just trying to spin what I'm saying into something else.

 

Different series or not, it IS comparable.

 

It isn't, because FF main titles sell better than spin offs, always. With Tales here, Symphonia 2 (which you say is a spin off, I'd say a sequel) trumped a main title. That's why they're not similar.

[pedrocasilva]

Oh come on, I think anyone with sense would have the decency to admit that Tales games are often very cheesey and don't break the boundaries whatsoever. The battle systems make almost no change between games, the story is usually not as moving and is riddled with cliches (not saying FF games aren't, but Tales more so) and often there's much less effort put into their games (as Legendia and perhaps Symphonia 2 prove).

Tales being cheesy... damn right, but at least it is intended, Final Fantasy X is cheesy and, because it tries so hard it jut feels wrong. Tales of Symphonia? weak story, but at some point feels like they're taking stabs at FFX, by making it worse. Not to mention that Tales games always have light hearted moments that compliment more "that" kind of cheesy'ness than a FF game.

 

As for "effort" you're kinda confusing effort with budget, I feel.

Again, this is an unfair comparison. Smash Brothers is the kind of game that reaches a much wider audience, and it does not matter if you didn't play the previous games, really. With Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, the story follows on and you honestly probably wouldn't even think anything of buying it unless you had played the original. It's not fair to compare the fact that Brawl sold more than Melee to Symphonia 2 sales. I'd imagine it really is Symphonia 1 fans buying it.

Even though it doesn't have a 2 in the title?

 

Everything is unfair to you, we could pick every single Gamecube game sequel and notice it's selling more and faster than the original, but hey, it is clearly unfair, the fact that it happens with every single game is a facade and mere coincidence, there isn't a trend at all; Wii has a wider audience than GC ever had, and the widest this gen.

 

Anyway and back to the initial point, is there any doubt Tales of Vesperia would fare so much better? you're going against your own logic now. (but wait you'll say Smash Bros Brawl selling more than melee wouldn't be comparable to the potential vesperia wii sales too right?)

 

What next? just because DS sold a bucketload of FF games nothing says it's a good platform for RPG's? (lol)

IF ToS1 fans wanted a new game why didn't they buy Vesperia more?? This is the point I'm getting at. It did well because people loved Symphonia 1, and it was probably the best (or at least one of the best) Tales games, with arguably the best characters. And as for saying people think they needed to play the first game - it would be silly not to. The second game spoils the story of the first one so I think it'd be ridiculous to buy the second game only for it to spoil the former, better game for you. Especially since someone could buy it and play it on Wii if they wished.

Because the Tales userbase isn't on the X360... DUH!

 

(I can't even believe I'm answering to this with words)

 

If ToS1 US fans wanted Tales of the Abyss why didn't they buy it? (ToS1= at least 600.000 units sold outside Japan, Abyss= 120.000) well, how about... Because it wasn't on their platform!?

 

And this gen the tables have turned, wereas last gen PS2 had the edge with Tales titles in Japan, this gen it doesn't and if they don't neither does xbox (well, I'll even go on to say that xbox has even less of an edge in Japan, than PS3 regarding that) and from a niche market you had on the GC you have a much bigger one on the Wii, so what's the doubt? not only ToS1 fans would buy ToV, other kinds of publics and newcomers would too; if like you're saying, ToSDotNW keeps newcomers from picking it (but although that is true to some extent the game is made also for people that haven't played the previous one, and it doesn't even have a 2 on it's title, neither is it ToS2 really)

 

Then how come you actually think ToV would sell less? you have it totally backwards; it's like you're saying otherwise just because.

Regarding 'people thinking they need ToS as a hindrance' - Symphonia reached such a wide number of people and was loved by so many that I'm pretty sure it still means there's more customers wanting to buy it.

More than a main installment? you're surely jesting.

It's one of the worst. Awful, shoddy, half-assed presentation and recycled Symphonia voice actors. It talked about another land invading (IIRC) and you never even visited it. There was a battle scene which laughably consisted of about 3 people on screen, and this was meant to be a war. Gah. Just thinking of that game really riles me. I actually threw it in the dustbin.

it has easily one of the best Tales soundtracks though; and good graphics for PS2. Not everything is shit in there.

Way to catch my drift. My point about Symphonia 2 selling better being regular is not because it is a spin-off, but because it is a sequel to one of the most-loved Tales games and is in itself a fairly good game. Simply put. End of this conversation please, as I feel that you are just trying to spin what I'm saying into something else.

Your drift is that nothing with a diferent name is comparable, lol.

 

And... it is not ToS2, it is ToSDotNW, already in there to mislead newcomers, and because it really isn't a direct sequel, but a recycled spin-off.

It isn't, because FF main titles sell better than spin offs, always. With Tales here, Symphonia 2 (which you say is a spin off, I'd say a sequel) trumped a main title. That's why they're not similar.

With Tales games too, it just goes to say just how stupid, idiotic and wrong Scamco decision was.

 

It's like if Sony did put Titanic exclusively on their Betamax format and started complaining about sales, and efectively sold less next to some less popular movie released on VHS, if a console is like a video player, you can't blame that a game doesn't sell if it's released on a equipment no one owns. And RPG fans aren't on the X360, not in Japan, not in US... not in Europe. X360 wouldn't even have JRPG's if they hadn't moneyhatted them. That's just how they're diferent they are, spin-off's and lower budget games always tend to sell less than a better product on the same platform... the diference here is the platform and where the userbase for tales games really is.

 

Even Namco Bandai called it a spin-off mate, and do you think a sequel to ToS would be half assed and low budget? (and not have a "2" on it's title?) lol.

 

But hey these are facts.

[Mokong]

Oh jesus I dn't have to time to read all that but this whole spin-off/sequel and Tales vs FF is getting out of hand.

 

I have Dawn of the New World and I am loving it, playing it every single moment I can. On Chapter 6 right now going to Altemira for the second time.

 

Whether you want to call it a spin off or a sequel what does it matter in relation to it's sales numbers? I think it's great it's selling well and better than Vesperia, hopefully Namco will take the hint and realise where the majority of Tales fans are. ToV obviously didn't sell as well because the Xbox brand isn't known for RPGs so fewer RPG fans would have them. Which is why MS are spending a ton of cash to get RPGs made for the system, like ToV, Blue Dragon, Last Remnants etc.

 

But BACK ON TOPIC, Dawn of the New World is (IMO) a great game.... not as good as the first of course it does have a number of issues which if they weren't there the game could potentially be on par with ToS.

 

As far as the story goes I am hooked, sure I seen a few of the twists coming early which you'd know from my first posts after getting the game. And still a twist or two which surprised me. such as

 

When you find Lloyd and Decus (disgused as Lloyd) fighting and you are glad it wasn't Lloyd killing people like in Palmacosta etc. You thinking Lloyd is gonna joing you and explain what the hell is going on, then he goes and turns semi-bad again out of the blue, surprised the hell out of me anyway

 

 

The voice acting isn't bothering me, sure it's a shame they only got 3 of the original voice cast back, but with the exception of Lloyd I honestly couldn't tell who had a new voice actor, I had to look it up online to find out. And i'm pretty happy with the standard of the voice acting once you get over the "it's not the same actors" thing.

 

As for all the towns etc being the same, of course they are, it;s only two years later, it's essentailly the same exact world. Though looking at the world map the unification of the worlds did alter the geography and position of some towns in relation to others from where they were in ToS... the thing about this that bugs me is the map system. I would much prefer to be walking about exploring this new map.

 

But I'm happy seeing the towns again and seeing the small changes like the rebuilding of Palmacosta, or how the various weather events are affecting the others. It what I wanted after i finished ToS, I wanted to see what happened next with the world and how the people reacted to their new world. The dungeons are a little annoying going through them again almost the same as the first but they all have new sections too which I enjoyed finding or there was something different in the "old sections". Plus there are new dungeons too which is fresh and I'm enjoying it.

 

I could go on but it's getting late I need to get to bed so i'll get on with the reason I came on to post in the first place.

 

I just accidently discovered a new arte by using the unison attack and not entirely sure how I did it?

 

I used "converging fury" and pressed the unison attack button by mistake (the gauge was only half full too)... but instead of Emil doing the normal "devils maw" attack thing him and Marta did something else.... it was like a Mystic Arte special attack but it was the two of them... can't remember what the attack was called. I manged to get it to happen two more times, but still can't figure out how.

 

The only thing I can figure it is it only happened when I pressed C right after using "converging fury" (like as it started and before the move ended)... I figure the element things are playing some role but can't figure out what the combination was, tried with 2 minor "Light" elements (since Marta is a Light type) and 2 minor with major "Light" but nothing... thinking it might be 3 minor lights but I can't keep my battles going long enough to get 3 of them with the major light..... not sure either if it's just "converging fury" it can be done with or if it can be done with other "arcane" moves... or if there are similar dual-attacks with other characters.

 

Anybody else have a clue what I'm talking about and what the exact mechanics of activating it are?

[Sheikah]

As for "effort" you're kinda confusing effort with budget, I feel.Even though it doesn't have a 2 in the title?

 

That's all effort is at the end of the day. Effort is bought. It's all about getting more combined effort and a lashing of luck. It's no surprise that on average the better quality games out there usually have a higher budget. That's an average, not a definite fact. Quite a few Tales games don't have the effort put into it I feel.

 

 

What next? just because DS sold a bucketload of FF games nothing says it's a good platform for RPG's? (lol)Because the Tales userbase isn't on the X360... DUH!

 

You're right, it wasn't. That's why people bought a 360 to play it. A fair number of Japanese went that far.

 

although that is true to some extent the game is made also for people that haven't played the previous one, and it doesn't even have a 2 on it's title, neither is it ToS2 really)

 

So you think because there's no '2' people are stupid enough to think it's not a sequel? First off, it's an RPG. I like to think RPG players have a bit more intelligence. People playing it aren't doing so for the adrenaline rush, they're in it for an engaging story and some leveling up. Secondly, any RPG fan knows of Tales of Symphonia, so I'm pretty sure they'd know what they were buying. It mentions it on the back of the case too.

 

Then how come you actually think ToV would sell less? you have it totally backwards; it's like you're saying otherwise just because.More than a main installment? you're surely jesting.it has easily one of the best Tales soundtracks though; and good graphics for PS2. Not everything is shit in there.Your drift is that nothing with a diferent name is comparable, lol.

 

As far as I can see, they are both main installments. You just seem to think that ToV is somehow superior because the characters are different, as are the towns. I disagree. In Symphonia there are new characters as well as old ones (that people love). There's new things to do. Repeated towns, but still most of what you're doing is new.

 

It's like if Sony did put Titanic exclusively on their Betamax format and started complaining about sales, and efectively sold less next to some less popular movie released on VHS, if a console is like a video player, you can't blame that a game doesn't sell if it's released on a equipment no one owns. And RPG fans aren't on the X360, not in Japan, not in US... not in Europe.

 

This is such bullshit - the 360 has more RPGs than the PS3 at the moment (at least in Europe), and also better ones. It's also getting FFXIII as well as the PS3. So, uh, yeah. You figure that one out.

 

It doesn't matter how they acquired RPGs, the fact is that if the Xbox has them then that attracts RPG fans. Oblivion (out way earlier on Xbox), Eternal Sonata (at least for a long time), Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey (great), Fable II (even better), soon to be FFXIII, ToV...it all adds up to a lot more than the PS3's showing in Europe at the moment anyhow.

 

Even Namco Bandai called it a spin-off mate, and do you think a sequel to ToS would be half assed and low budget? (and not have a "2" on it's title?) lol.

 

But hey these are facts.

 

It's not uncommon for people to disagree with what a company labels a game. I would not say this is a spin off as the gameplay is pretty much the same as the previous game and the story is a direct continuation. I call sequel.

 

 

Anyway, can't be assed replying to this anymore, I feel this discussion is spamming the topic and it has run its course...

[pedrocasilva]

That's all effort is at the end of the day. Effort is bought. It's all about getting more combined effort and a lashing of luck. It's no surprise that on average the better quality games out there usually have a higher budget. That's an average, not a definite fact. Quite a few Tales games don't have the effort put into it I feel.

I disagree, I see a lot Square-Enix games that I'd say have 1/10th of the effort a indie game has.

 

Budget means production values yeah, something Tales doesn't really have and I'll agree Tales of is kinda inconsistent at times, mainly due to outsources and kicking games out of the door to meet deadlines, this said... I still think you're putting effort and budget in the same bag.

 

Tales might not be the best example, but look at Shin Megami Tensei and Suda games for instance.

You're right, it wasn't. That's why people bought a 360 to play it. A fair number of Japanese went that far.

And then sold it back, like a lot of them did with Blue Dragon. They don't want it.

 

Not to mention that the aforementioned platform was by far the worse choice for a third party JRPG.

 

That's why the sales for ToV get overshadowed by a spin-off; nuff said.

So you think because there's no '2' people are stupid enough to think it's not a sequel?

It's enough for your so called newcomers not to know it is a spin-off of a previous game. And even seasoned gamers who are out of touch with the internet, what says they won't think it's some kind of directors cut? I mean it's tales of symphonia with a new subtitle and the original one is out of print.

First off, it's an RPG. I like to think RPG players have a bit more intelligence. People playing it aren't doing so for the adrenaline rush, they're in it for an engaging story and some leveling up. Secondly, any RPG fan knows of Tales of Symphonia, so I'm pretty sure they'd know what they were buying. It mentions it on the back of the case too.

Well, some know their stuff some don't, and if you want to have a RPG selling real good you have to tap into both audiences; if the platform has them that is.

 

Not any RPG fan knows what Tales of Symphonia is mind you, any RPG fan who had a Gamecube yes, but not all. In a ideal world every RPG fan would know every franchise, but that simply isn't a fact; go around in europe asking RPG fans if they know Shin Megami Tensei, for instance. (and good luck)

As far as I can see, they are both main installments. You just seem to think that ToV is somehow superior because the characters are different, as are the towns. I disagree. In Symphonia there are new characters as well as old ones (that people love). There's new things to do. Repeated towns, but still most of what you're doing is new.

It is NOT a main installment; full stop.

 

It just isn't; Namco said it while trying to hype Vesperia (almost stepped on ToSDotNW to achieve that), they showed it in their roadmaps, with bigger circles for main installments and smaller ones for spin-off's and it isn't even made by a main team; not to mention it's budget is laughable.

 

Stop going there already.

It's like if Sony did put Titanic exclusively on their Betamax format and started complaining about sales, and efectively sold less next to some less popular movie released on VHS, if a console is like a video player, you can't blame that a game doesn't sell if it's released on a equipment no one owns. And RPG fans aren't on the X360, not in Japan, not in US... not in Europe.

This is such bullshit - the 360 has more RPGs than the PS3 at the moment (at least in Europe), and also better ones. It's also getting FFXIII as well as the PS3. So, uh, yeah. You figure that one out.

Yet, it is so good for RPG's that Dragon Quest Swords a lousy Dragon Quest on-rails spin-off manages to tie it's worldwide sales with Blue Dragon and almost reach Lost Odyssey. Not to mention their moneyhatted Tales game get's ass kicked by a spin-off!

 

Wow, what a RPG userbase they have. They purchased the games alright, sadly for them, not the userbase for them.

It doesn't matter how they acquired RPGs, the fact is that if the Xbox has them then that attracts RPG fans. Oblivion (out way earlier on Xbox), Eternal Sonata (at least for a long time), Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey (great), Fable II (even better), soon to be FFXIII, ToV...it all adds up to a lot more than the PS3's showing in Europe at the moment anyhow.

Mate, by RPG's I mean JRPG's, so while I'm talking of RPG's you can shovel those WRPG's (Oblivion, Fable, Fallout 3 and Mass Effect) elsewhere.

 

Anywhere, I'm not interested in reading "X360 defense force" at this hour, ToV got it's ass kicked, Blue Dragon tied with a Dragon Quest Spin-off and no JRPG sold more than a million on X360. It smells at this point.

It's not uncommon for people to disagree with what a company labels a game. I would not say this is a spin off as the gameplay is pretty much the same as the previous game and the story is a direct continuation. I call sequel.

LOL, have you played any Tales Spin-off's? Tales of the World/Tales of the Radiant Mythology also has the same gameplay, IT MUST BE A MAIN INSTALLMENT. (and I recall Nirikiri Dungeon takes place after Tales of Phantasia and uses LMBS must be a sequel! and Summoner's Lineage takes place with a Klarth descendant, it must be a sequel!)

 

And... the story isn't a direct continuation, indirect if you will, the main character isn't the same, neither is the story told from the same standpoint.

 

Stop, it IS a spin-off, no matter how you want to call it.

 

I rather read what people have to say of this spin-off than going in circles with you trying to distort facts.

[The-chosen-one]

@The-chosen-one:

When was the evolving possibility explained in the game? Because I only noticed it at the end of the game because I needed stronger monsters to defeat

Alice and Decus

 

Interestingly though: With the enemies after those I had no problems at all. They were nearly too easy

 

 

it was when i first got to asgard the katz guild there you see 2 yellow katz just talk to the right one and he will explain almost everthing from the game including evolution growth of your monster etc

[ghost_zero]

Ah. OK. Maybe I over-read that part

Strange however, at the first playthrough I normally read everything thoroughly.

 

@pedrocasilva:

Well: At least Namco said that the next main series will be on the Wii, didn't they?

Btw.: You are right that is not a main series but I wouldn't call it spin-off either. If you ask me it is something between spin-off and main

(Still would be nice to see a full Symphonia sequel though but that is very, very unlikely because normally Tales of games don't even get something like DtNW).

 

Btw. regarding the story in Symphonia 1 - I thought it was a really nice story.

 

Regarding RPGs which Europeans don't know: That is often also because we don't even get those titles Regarding Tales of not even the US did get nearly all titles, most were Japanese only - regarding that matter it never made sense to create such a game for the XBox 360 because Japan has no real existent userbase for the XBox 360 (but that you already mentioned).

 

@Sheikah:

Regarding battle system: I wonder: How would you change the battle-system?

After all I think the battle system is nearly brilliant (however, I also love turn based RPG games, however Tales of is not a game series which should use a turn based battle system) - especially because you can also play the battles with friends.

I mean small changes were even in the Tales of games (like Unison attacks a.s.o.).

[pedrocasilva]

@pedrocasilva:

Well: At least Namco said that the next main series will be on the Wii, didn't they?

Team Destiny? We'd always get them anyway, that or they'd have to do portable console games, it's some kind of lesser deal. And trying to put Team Destiny chasing after Team Symphonia in 3D is just stupid and throwing through the window their welcome for what it is, difference.

 

It was Team Symphonia that did put tales on the map outside japan, and most people here are Team Symphonia fans, trust me when I say Team Destiny is a very diferent beast. (their battle systems are better, alright; and 2D), and Team Symphonia was the team they implied was working on ToSDotNW except they weren't. If Namco's commitment and effort on the Wii is for real they have to put them here; not elsewhere were at this point it's more than proven that they have less public (not to mention that Tales games were always primarily released on leading platforms, and Wii is just that). Otherwise they're just playing around really.

Btw.: You are right that is not a main series but I wouldn't call it spin-off either. If you ask me it is something between spin-off and main

(Still would be nice to see a full Symphonia sequel though but that is very, very unlikely because normally Tales of games don't even get something like DtNW).

No point in doing a Tales of Symphonia sequel really, just pick Tales of Phantasia for a stroll since ToS is and was made as a prequel to it; anything between them can only be a less epic fanservice game; unless it takes place in a certain place (no ToS characters could be alive by then).

Btw. regarding the story in Symphonia 1 - I thought it was a really nice story.

Well, I didn't but unlike FFX and other stuff trying to be serious, Symphonia didn't bother me, or other tales games for that matter.

 

But I respect you opinion regarding it being a nice story.

[ghost_zero]

Team Destiny? We'd always get them anyway, that or they'd have to do portable console games, it's some kind of lesser deal. And trying to put Team Destiny chasing after Team Symphonia in 3D is just stupid and throwing through the window their welcome for what it is, difference.

 

OK. That is true too but I guess we will see what comes out of it...

 

No point in doing a Tales of Symphonia sequel really, just pick Tales of Phantasia for a stroll since ToS is and was made as a prequel to it; anything between them can only be a less epic fanservice game; unless it takes place in a certain place (no ToS characters could be alive by then).

 

Regarding this: Well you are correct here too but I meant more like replacing what happened in Dawn of the New World or remaking Dawn of the New World - and enhancing it to a main series game - but as said that is more than unlikely

However, I think that Dawn of the New World is still a good game. However, it could have been way better though (e.g. especially regarding re-used dungeon designs).

 

But well: A full Tales of game (preferable made from the Symphonia team) would be good too

 

 

Btw. can anyone answer my question some posts above:

Ratatosk said he would re-write the code that there could be life without mana but a bit later he said that eventually life isn't possible without mana and therefore life will still end - however just extremely later (regarding the re-write). Isn't that a bit contradicting though? Did I miss something here?

 

 

?

[Mokong]

Ok so are we back on track with discussion of the actual game?

 

Cuz something is starting to annoy me (in the sense i did something ... 3 times... but don't know how), i asked before but I think it got lost in all the above so here we'll try again.

 

 

 

I just accidently discovered a new arte by using the unison attack and not entirely sure how I did it?

 

I used "converging fury" and pressed the unison attack button by mistake (the gauge was only half full too)... but instead of Emil doing the normal "devils maw" attack thing, him and Marta did something else.... it gave a cut scene like a Mystic Arte special attack but it was the two of them... can't remember what the attack was called. I manged to get it to happen two more times, but still can't figure out how.

 

The only thing I can figure it is it only happened when I pressed C right after using "converging fury" (like as it started and before the move ended)... I figure the element things are playing some role but can't figure out what the combination was, tried with 2 minor "Light" elements (since Marta is a Light type) and 2 minor with major "Light" but nothing... thinking it might be 3 minor lights but I can't keep my battles going long enough to get 3 of them with the major light..... not sure either if it's just "converging fury" it can be done with or if it can be done with other "arcane" moves... or if there are similar dual-attacks with other characters.

 

Anybody else have a clue what I'm talking about and what the exact mechanics of activating it are?

[ghost_zero]

Isn't a normal Unison attack in general for combining two or more characters attacks to one bigger attack?

 

But I am not completely sure if we mean the same thing.

However, it very likely has to do with the elemental grid - did you have both elements in it (Emil's and Marta's)?