Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World

[Captain Falcon]

Anyone played Phantasia on the GBA? I've never got that far into it but its meant to be buggy.

 

Yeah, I picked up a US copy from a local game store since it wasn't on Nintendo Europe's release schedule... and then the day after they issued a press release saying it was coming the following month.

 

I wouldn't say it was buggy... shoddy and lazy, sure, buggy no. "What the heck is that?" and "Kangaroo" ring any bells?

 

I'd already played through the DeJap version of the Super Famicom game but I was looking forward to having a genuine copy of it. I was hoping that version would improve on the original in terms of gameplay even if the graphics/sound took a knock - always found the battling a bit tricky. And whilst it was nice not to have every spell cause the screen to scroll (most do but basic don't), it was only marginally better. The technical ring turns up way too late and is actually more difficult to use than semi-auto so that was a bust. To be honest, some of the problems are inherent to the game itself and not the version - nothing more frustrating than constantly being stunned and unable to attack or get away.

 

Tales of Phantasia seems to me as if it's Namco's favourite game given how often they like to farm it out. SF, PSX, GBA, PSP, PSP again... If they make another version, I'd like to see them give it a full 3D overhaul and implement one of the 3D versions of LMBS even if it's just the basic Free Range one. Then throw in a few side quests, drop in the sword dancer, and bish bosh, another great Tales game to add to the growing list.

 

I do still have a fondness for the GBA game, and will sometimes just put it on and play through until Morrison sends you back in time. I have the anime on DVD which is pretty cool though unless you know the story beforehand, you will struggle to understand just by watching it - definitely for fans.

 

Of all my issues with the GBA version though, I think perhaps my biggest is the fact they cut the scene of Dhaos travelling through time sequence short and so you don't get to hear all of the brilliant "The Stream of Time" music track.

 

	Audio

 

I could listen to that all day long. Thats' the SF version but even the GBA does a surprisingly impressive rendition of it considering how butched most of the other tracks sound.

 

And to get back onto the subject of DotNW, I actually started playing it again last night. UNfortunately, I'd just got in from a night out and was very drunk and feeling very worse for wear to the point I couldn't remember what I was doing or where I was going... so I just did some Katz quests whilst I sobered up :p

 

It turns out I'm on Chapter 5 and about to head off the the Earth temple.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Captain Falcon

[daftada]

Good to see people are still playing this, I did manage to finish it eventually! I was pleasantly surprised with it, it wasn't as good as the original but then I never expected it to be. It still ranks highly in my fave Tales, behind Symphonia and Vesperia, and slightly ahead of Abyss.

 

I wish I hadn't sold my copy now....

[Patch]

OK, cool, so daftada - COMPLETED!

 

I was toying with the idea of getting Abyss. I'm not 100% sold just yet. Maybe I'll wait until after finishing this to decide.

 

Some progress:

 

I've finished Chapter 1, and while I am enjoying the revisit to Sylvarant and the great music, it feels slightly lacklustre so far. It accomplishes the impressive feat of making me want to play the first game all over again, while at the same time making me want to see something new and different.

 

The battles are as great as usual, albeit without the same sense of companionship, given that your team members are nearly all monsters. The menu system is slick and the skits are entertaining enough. Despite the awful character of Emil and the even-worse townsfolk I've met so far, I'm enjoying it enough to keep playing for the moment. Let's see what Chapter 2 brings.

 

Oh, one other thing which darksnowman's motion capture comment made me recall. I always thought the Sorceror's Ring felt a bit, well, you know . . . a bit crap. The sudden halting of the character, the stiff arm-raising, the weedy sound effect, the retry after retry to get the thing lined up to where I want to send the damn blast of whatever it is. And while they have improved the aiming (now done by aiming with the Wii Remote) - YAY! - they've removed the visual effect completely - GAH!

[darksnowman]

@Captain Falcon, Shoddy is probably a better word to describe how Phantasia felt. I knew there was no way the game was so dodgy on the Snes as it turned out on the GBA port. I'll maybe start a new file in it sometime and see how far I can get (/persevere) nowadays.

 

@Patch, status report if you please.

Emil is really annoying to begin with but does have a decent character progression arc over the course of the game. Don't let his whinging put you off yet.

 

Good to see people are still playing this, I did manage to finish it eventually! I was pleasantly surprised with it, it wasn't as good as the original but then I never expected it to be. It still ranks highly in my fave Tales, behind Symphonia and Vesperia, and slightly ahead of Abyss.

 

I wish I hadn't sold my copy now....

 

I've only played Phantasia and Symphonia 1 + 2. The only other one I have the means of playing is Abyss. Is it a must play entry in the series?

[daftada]

I've only played Phantasia and Symphonia 1 + 2. The only other one I have the means of playing is Abyss. Is it a must play entry in the series?

 

I've really enjoyed what I've played so far, I'm about 20 hours in. The story starts off slow and confusing but the pieces start to fall into place a few hours into it, and I'm finding myself pretty hooked. The main character is quite annoying but it kinda fits in with his story arc so I can forgive that. Battle system is similar to ToS 2, with free-run etc. Music and graphics are nice too. If you've enjoyed the other Tales games then I can highly recommend Abyss. Shame you haven't got a 360, as Vespera is another really good Tales game and you can download it from the marketplace for ?20 (cheaper than eBay copies).

[Patch]

@Patch, status report if you please.

Emil is really annoying to begin with but does have a decent character progression arc over the course of the game. Don't let his whinging put you off yet.

 

Thank you. Interesting how his being possessed by Ratatosk actually makes him just as annoying but for the opposite reasons.

 

I've now completed Chapter 2 and thankfully Emil is getting more bearable. I always thought the skits were fairly unnecessary, but this time I think they go some way to connecting the player to the characters. That they're all fully voiced helps too. Some are quite amusing.

 

Seeing Colette again was a blast. Pretty clever to give Emil and Marta negative experiences of Lloyd and Colette. Maybe those of us who have played the first game and have therefore played as Lloyd and Colette can empathise with this, but their hatred feels somewhat directed at me! I am Lloyd! It's definitely stirred me to want to learn the truth of what happened. Great story device.

 

IMO, some of the boss fights (particularly the garuda on top of the wind pedestal) haven't been pitched too well, difficulty-wise, but the dungeons are faithful to the original, enjoyable enough and I'm starting to get the hang of the monsters. Which leads me to a couple of questions, if anyone has the answer.

 

1. What are the conditions for a pact being available after a fight? So far, it just seems to be random when this occurs.

2. What are the elemental circles for in the bottom left corner of the screen during battles? It was mentioned once, but I've forgotten.

[Jonnas]

1. What are the conditions for a pact being available after a fight? So far, it just seems to be random when this occurs.

2. What are the elemental circles for in the bottom left corner of the screen during battles? It was mentioned once, but I've forgotten.

 

1.There's no 100% guarantee that a monster will join you. It's generally random.

 

2. I recall that having 3 circles of the same element helped raise the chances of recruiting monsters of that element, but I don't quite remember the specifics.

It's also part of the requirements for certain Mystical Artes, but that's much later.

[Captain Falcon]

IMO, some of the boss fights (particularly the garuda on top of the wind pedestal) haven't been pitched too well, difficulty-wise, but the dungeons are faithful to the original, enjoyable enough and I'm starting to get the hang of the monsters. Which leads me to a couple of questions, if anyone has the answer.

 

1. What are the conditions for a pact being available after a fight? So far, it just seems to be random when this occurs.

2. What are the elemental circles for in the bottom left corner of the screen during battles? It was mentioned once, but I've forgotten.

 

Just to add a bit of clarity here...

 

The big circle is the field element. The small circles are the minor elements.

 

Making four of the five minor elements the same kind, by performing elemental artes, will change the major element to that type and clear all the minor elements.

 

If the major element and four minor elements are the same, at the point you defeat an enemy, they you will have a change to form a pact with it at the end of the fight - some text in purple writing flashes on screen but I've never worked out what it said. If the elements then change, it odesn't matter, you will still have your chance. However, you can only ever form a pact with one creature in a battle and so if you defeat two in that state, there is no way to guarantee which you'll get. The easiest way is to control things is to spam one of Emil's elemental artes (equip the skill to get them) to manipulate the grid. Not all enemies can have pacts formed with them though... even if the grid is correctly aligned.

 

Depending on the other creatures in your party, you may be able to call on them to strength your pact ritual. This I'm a bit hazy on the details and I'm not sure if it's to do with type or the creatures elemental attribute (seen on the status screen) that makes them better at pact forming - I think it's the element and their level too.

 

The minor elements also determine which party members can join in a unison attack. If a minor element is the same as the member's elemental attribute, then they will attack as well. The thing to note is that only two human/elf/half elves can join in at once. So you if you are Emil and you have Marta and Collete in your battle party, even if their elements are both on the grid, only one will perform a move. This limit doesn't apply to monsters though and so your character, plus three of them can join in together. Performming unisons also resets the elemental grid.

[Jonnas]

Oh yeah... the Falcon is right, it was 4 circles, not 3, and it was the unison attacks, not the Mystical Artes It has been a while since I played the game.

 

(Though I do remember that the most useful elemental attack was the fire-based one. If you're going to spam an attack, make it that one)

[Patch]

Thanks for the incredibly detailed reply, CF. Very useful to know. I did wonder why monsters would sometimes join in the unison attacks and sometimes not.

 

So far, I haven't been sufficiently motivated to manage or observe my monsters too much, other than equipping new skills as they become available, but I will definitely be investigating the elemental grid the next time I play.

 

From what's been said, it seems there are different benefits to two different approaches:

 

1. You can try to make the minor elements the same in the hope of forming new pacts at the end of battles.

2. You can try to vary the minor elements as much as possible to allow more team members to take part in unison attacks, assuming your party consists of members whose elemental attributes are varied themselves.

[Jonnas]

Not much of a choice, though. They're very distinct objectives, as you're either trying to recruit monsters, or trying to simply win a fight, so you'll aim for one with little doubt.

 

By the way, have you evolved a monster yet? For that mechanic, I'd advise checking a FAQ, as nothing in-game tells you about these monster family trees (I remember a Wolf [Dark] evolving into a Fenrir [ice] at a certain level, but into a Hellhound [Fire] at another)

[Patch]

I've evolved a few monsters, which by the way, is a far better use of cooking than in the original game IMO. I haven't seen anything to hint at what it will evolve into, as you say. Perhaps the type of dish you make can also affect it, since the monster shows different levels of er, excitement, when different dishes are selected? Or perhaps that only affects the stat increases they receive.

 

Some monsters can evolve when given certain items, but this seems pretty vague to me so I haven't experimented with this at all.

 

What's annoying is that I can't find a quick way to see if the monster in my team is an evolved monster or not, without checking the 'Synch' attribute which is non-zero for evolved monsters it seems. Might be missing something there.

[Jonnas]

Hm? I recall cooking being able to improve monsters in some way (not necessarily evolving them) that was proportional to their fondness of the dish.

 

The "monsters evolving with items" thing is that some monsters can only evolve with specific items after a certain level, usually becoming monsters that are not found/recruitable in the wild (though I know they'll tell you if a monster needs an item). I recall needing one to evolve Jujube, my *checks gamefaqs* Treant, into a Mandocello, which was one of my strongest monsters.

[darksnowman]

Monster evolution is weird in this (atleast to me) because once you get them to their best evolution, the next time they are ready to evolve they will go back to their first form.

 

I'm glad someone else remembers the game mechanics cos I've forgotten all this stuff.

[Patch]

Like a rollover evolution? That is weird indeed. Though you never know. Perhaps one day we'll evolve back into primordeal slime.

 

Jonnas, after reading your comment, I checked the GameFAQs Monster Breeding FAQ and you're right. I've clearly forgotten you can feed your monsters at any time to give them stat increases (restricted to once per level). Might have to start doing that then. And buying a lot more food.

 

One thing that bothers me is the FAQ says that evolved monsters keep their book-learned arts, and I'm pretty sure that one of mine forgot the First Aid that it learnt. Put me right off buying that book again, but maybe I'll try again.

[Jonnas]

One thing that bothers me is the FAQ says that evolved monsters keep their book-learned arts, and I'm pretty sure that one of mine forgot the First Aid that it learnt. Put me right off buying that book again, but maybe I'll try again.

 

Weird. I'm certain Jujube kept her First Aid throughout her evolution. Could it be that the evolved form of that particular monster of yours simply can't learn First Aid in any way possible?

[Captain Falcon]

I manged to play a bit more of this the other night and am now at the entrance to the Temple of Earth.

 

Is it my imagination or is the writing and voice acting better in the skits than the actual cutscenes? It all seems so much more natural and fluid when they are talking. They seem to exhibit a wider range of emotion and more depth of personality than any of the stuff they say during the regular play.

 

Anyone else feel this way?

[Jonnas]

I'd say you're right. Could be that banter and small talk simply sound more natural than the overly dramatic scenes that we see in the main game.

 

The fixed pacing also helps immensely, since you really feel like the dialogue meshes naturally (like characters interrupting each other realistically), whereas with the main dialogue, you're just hearing isolated lines glued together with the A Button.

[Patch]

Is it my imagination or is the writing and voice acting better in the skits than the actual cutscenes? It all seems so much more natural and fluid when they are talking. They seem to exhibit a wider range of emotion and more depth of personality than any of the stuff they say during the regular play.

 

Anyone else feel this way?

 

Absolutely. I suppose the skits offer more social and 'fun' conversations to take place, allowing a bit more scope and freedom. That sort of light-hearted dialogue would probably seem out of place in the main story. Having said that, the 'It's nazdrovie' scene worked well, as did almost any scene with Raine and they were part of the main story.

 

I'm on Chapter 4, having just defeated the Light Frog and arrived at Flanoir. That light frog was one mean fight. I'd just put two level 1 monsters on my team and they died every time they were brought back to life. Between me and Marta, we managed to get it down to almost zero health a bunch of times, but he would heal himself, which brings me on to one irksome thing: Hit any of my team members while they are casting and the arte is then cancelled. Hit the light frog with a 5 hit combo and he carries on as if he was being bothered by a butterfly! Grr. That fight took a long time...

 

The fixed pacing also helps immensely, since you really feel like the dialogue meshes naturally (like characters interrupting each other realistically), whereas with the main dialogue, you're just hearing isolated lines glued together with the A Button.

 

I have the fastest text setting, which displays the text instantly. Because of this, I tend to skip a speech bubble when I've read it, so I miss a lot of the spoken dialogue. You can't skip the skits (that I know of), but I don't mind. I'd be more annoyed if I couldn't skip the main story dialogue.

[Patch]

I'm up to Chapter 5 now and have come across all of the original Tales of Symphonia characters except

Presea.

 

 

The team have now come up with a theory as to why Lloyd is being an absolute git, and I suppose it's plausible. If this is the case, then the story has now essentially become 'Save Lloyd from his Centurion-core madness'.

 

I'm still bothered by the way the writers seem bent on inserting as many oddly-pronounced pronouns as possible into the story.

 

Flanoir (Flan-oy-er)

Cruxis (Crew-shiss)

Desian (Dez-i-an)

Undine (Un-dee-nee)

Noishe (???)

 

Any others?

[Jonnas]

Didn't they actually change the pronunciation of a couple of words from the first game? I know "mana" is pronounced differently now.

 

Though...Undine is an actual word. Flanoir sounds fine if you pronounce it in French, and Noishe is pronounced exactly like it is written (Noy-sh).

Which leaves Desian and Cruxis with ambiguous/weird pronunciation. There's far worse names out there, though (remember Forcystus?)

 

Also, those aren't pronouns

[Patch]

Oh yeah, a few letters got away from me there! Proper nouns is what I meant.

 

I always say Fla-noir, as in the French noir, with a 'nw' sound. But the game doesn't. Really bugs me.

 

Forcystus, yes! Yggdrasil being another imposing name.

[Jonnas]

Oh yeah, they don't pronounce it properly, do they? I guess I've phased that out of my attention, because it did bother me at first.

 

Yggdrasil also exists, by the way

[Patch]

Ginnungagap!

 

Progress has been slow and steady. I'm on the 8th chapter; Emil is wrestling with himself and all the characters have all gone their separate ways, to regroup later in Altamira for what is presumably the final showdown.

 

I'm enjoying it, but I'm not sad to be near the end.

[Jonnas]

Ginnungagap! Had almost forgotten that one

 

By the way, remember to visit the tree before rejoining in Altamira...