Edjamakated

I don't care if it's accessible. That just means the controls will be great! I'm more concerned about the structure of the game.

If you haven't read my first thread, here is a link http://n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22630 In my previous post, I talked about how Link could potentially interact with the world at a level never before seen thanks to the Wii and it's motion+ accessory. In this thread, I would like to explain exactly what the world could look like and how the game might be played, and finally, why Zelda Wii could possibly be the best game ever (but only if it throws what we call "Zelda" into the wind). So where to start? How about at the core. For every Zelda game that came out after LTTP, the same formula has been applied. Link must travel to many different dungeons (water, fire, etc), gain an item, then use that item throughout the level and then eventually kill the boss with said item. It is because of this redundancy that Zelda hasn't felt fresh in a long time. The games themselves are beautifully crafted, but there are hardly any surprises. What I propose is that Zelda stray away from the "collect 8 pieces of the artifact" to something more sincere, something more worthy, something more random. It is because we know the formula so well that it doesn't matter how interesting these new dungeons are, they all feel the same. It feels like a different version of the same game. Lately, Zelda games have put more and more emphasis on side quests, quests between the quest. IMO, this is where the adventure portion of the game comes in. This is where random comes in. And generally, all the quests have been great. This is the reason why MM is my favorite Zelda. But still, sooner or later, no matter how much you delay, you still have to go to a dungeon in order to progress through the game. Now I applaud Miyamoto for his courage. He knows that Zelda has become too redundant and that's why he said TP will be the last of its kind. And I really think he's thinking what I'm thinking (well maybe not exactly). He's thinking that adventure isn't ordained. You don't tell someone where to go and what to do and call it an adventure. That's similar to telling someone to go to the store and buy some juice. That's an errand. An adventure is the unknown. An adventure is possibilities. And in order for Zelda to have the unknown, it needs to be changed from the ground up. Now imagine starting the game and finding yourself abandoned out in the middle of the woods. It's dark and your hurt, but what is that? You hear something and it sounds like singing. As you draw nearer, the singing gets louder. Louder and louder still, until you see it. It's a cave; a Great Fairy spring in all it's glory. You have no items, no sense of direction, and no memory to speak of; she gladly takes pity on you and heals your wounds. But her kindness comes with a price. She entrusts you with something, something very precious. A creature; it looks like a mole but it's so tiny and furry, and it looks like it's hurt. But wait, what is this? It's faintly glowing, but it seems to be getting weaker. The Fairy tells you that she cannot heal this creature here, and that you must take it to whence it came. Conveniently, she has no idea where it came from, but knows that it cannot be allowed to die. So you are turned away, helpless. You exit the cave, riddled with questions. Then BAM! Goblins and there's a lot of them. You don't have anything to defend yourself with and they're getting closer! Closer and closer they come with their incessant laughter and disgusting slobber. Backed up against the wall, it looks like your done for. But just as they are about to come down on you, the creature sneezes and the land around you suddenly pops out into a hill, sending those goons flying. Then you realize....WTF is this thing? It sneezes once more and a path is formed. It's trying to lead you somewhere. So you follow. You find that the path leads to a mountain. It's treacherous, but you still manage to follow the path and climb its summit. There you notice the creature is looking a lot brighter and healthier. It sneezes again and creates a giant hole deep into the mountain. You fall for what seems like forever. And screaming your longs out, you finally black out. When you come to, you see the creature running around joyfully. This is the creature's home and you brought him back safely. It notices you are awake and scurries over. What? What's it saying? It looks like it wants to reward you. It starts doing this hilarious little dance; back and forth and back and forth. You don't understand it until you see it turn into pure light. Like electricity, a bolt of energy strikes you and starts pouring power into you, but somethings wrong. There is so much pain. With light coming out of your eyes, ears and mouth, you scream in agony. And then, it's over. On all fours, you catch your breath and even spew out a mouthful of blood. You look around for the creature and find him lying on his side, with his glow slowly pulsating fainter and fainter until nothing. The mountain starts to crumble all around you. Your going to die unless you figure something out. But the only way out is the way you came in. That's when the game prompts you to stand where the light shines in and tells you how to use your new found power. So you execute the move and a hill forms up under you launching you higher and higher. Your not going to make it. The hole is getting smaller and smaller. Your never going to make. That's when the game prompts you to use another one of your abilities and force the hole open. In a tremendous blast, the top of the mountain is turned into specks of dust. You've set yourself free but only to land in comical fashion right on your face and pass out. You wake up to a beautiful girl tending to your needs. Shes was worried you'd never awaken. She tells you her name and asks yours (game prompt)..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm sorry that was so long, but I felt it necessary (and kinda fun). But you can see the setup of this game and how it can be much different than in the past. There could be many of those special creatures with many different powers. They could be huge beasts while others tiny little bugs. There doesn't have to be a predetermined limit. But best of all, they don't have to be locked away in some Temple either. Also, the powers they grant you can make for some interesting puzzles. The way you find these creatures could be by listening to crazy town folk talk about "legends" and taking the hints and setting out to look for them. And you can even be given a choice, to capture them by using their weakness and doing them harm, or by helping them. These creatures can also have personalities themselves. For instance, you find a giant dragon perched atop a cliff. She warns you that she has done away with the others that tried to capture her, and if you don't leave now, she will kill you. You end up fighting her but during the struggle she runs the risk of dieing, so you save her life. In gratitude, she grants you the power to tame her young (giving you the ability to fly!). The story could allow for many unique possibilities. Such as Ganondorf is searching high and low for these creatures (the one you helped barely escaped his grasp) and he will stop at nothing to find them; not after he knows their true power. The more he captures and the more powerful he becomes, but something noticeable starts to happen. The world becomes more dull, the animals more angry and the sky more dark. But the same thing happens as you find creatures and use there power. Your a detriment to the world, just like Ganon. The further you advance, the more you step on each others toes. And as you both obtain more and more power, the laws of the world finally become unhinged when you face each other; providing an epic setting for a climax. Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that Zelda is going to get a great push in the right direction with the Wiimote and Motion+, but to truly be the best ever, it'll need to shed its now archaic structure and employ something more flexible, something more random. The problem with Temples and Dungeons is that you know where they are and you know generally the challenges you face. With a system like mine, you have no idea where to go and have no idea what you will face; and that is what exploration is all about. The unknown. Thanks for reading!

I posted a piece of music in the music thread, but that was before I knew it was run over with britney spears fans. *shudders* So I decided to make this thread. This is where your own work can be posted, discussed, and criticized. As for me, I like to produce hip-hop/rap beats. I'm ok, and I only use a laptop, but even without a great setup, I still enjoy putting music together. This latest one came to me after watching Quantum of Solace. I have some lyrics for it, but I can't figure out how to incorporate them correctly just yet. Anyway, tell me what you think! Cheers : peace: http://www.supload.com/music/Fresh-download-ITZFS7MU3RBF.html

I like making beats in my spare time. I use to paint, now I compose. Anyway, here's a little something I made after watching QoS. I tried to make it somewhat remorseful but also full of hate and revenge; as if he'd gone too far. I have some lyrics recorded but I don't know how to incorporate them correctly just yet, so this is just the beat. http://www.supload.com/music/Fresh-download-ITZFS7MU3RBF.html Tell me what you think.

While you maybe right, you can always choose whether you would like to video call or just call normally. Problem solved. Plus, to accommodate the feature, the camera could swivel inwards and outwards (outwards for picture taking). Seriously though, calling, like messaging, leaves out some very important body language. Not only that, but it'll finally feel like your talking to someone who is in the same room. And that is, of course, the whole reason phones were made.

Not true. The LHC has already proven that scientists and companies around the world are willing to work together in order to further our knowledge.

I really do believe that in the future we will have a base understanding taught to use, but only to allow us to make sense of the then, far more valuable information source; the internet. It is impossible for us to learn less, but maybe we will forget or won't learn what we deem as unnecessary. That's interesting. In all my fascination with nanotechnology, I've yet to here of it's ability to change the chemical aspects of our food. Could you provide a link? As for your prediction about the truly personal and portable computer, I wholly agree with you. I really think that we might carry around nothing about a DS sized contraption that handles everything. I won't go into much detail, but the only constraints (as you mentioned early) is energy, and processing energy. The video calling was an example, but I give you my word you will be using it later in your life. Why? Well first off, you listed a reason why it has failed: compatibility issues. That was then, this is now. Smartphones are dominating the market now, when they use to seem overly ambitious. With them come the foundation for a network that can support video. Give it two, maybe three years tops; we're just about there. NOTE: This really is starting to sound like those who denied the relevancy of the motion picture. Why use moving pictures when the radio is far more reliable? That's very true, but I was more eluding to your second point. How our new data storage medium, the internet, could become our collective consciousness. All we need is a truly large and viable means of transferring ideas and data from one another to stop the phenomenon of scientists arriving at the same goals in tandem, but instead use the back and forth nature of communication to arrive at the goal together (and ultimately much, much faster).

That's exactly what I was trying to get across. As technology converges upon itself over and over again, producing more and more precise technologies, we will undoubtedly adapt those technologies to our lives without ever thinking twice about it. It's the nature of man to have complicated things simplified. But in doing so, we may lose something about ourselves......or not. There is no way to know for sure.

Well, the thing about video conferencing with your phone is that you need both phones to be capable of such a feature. And you don't see the point? Really? Don't be naive. I guarantee you everyone and their mothers (especially their mothers) would use it. Hell, everyone already uses media messaging if they can. Communication is a huge aspect of human life. Mobile video conferencing is really a no brainer.

I've been stirring this idea around in my head for sometime and as time goes by, it becomes more and more true. Whenever you have a problem, where do you turn? It's almost always to someone or something wiser than yourself; a book, a friend, or a parent. Now that the internet is expanding and becoming more and more apart of our daily lives; how are you solving your daily problems? If you don't know the answer to a question, where do you turn? Where else but the internet? Today is becoming more about how to find information than actually knowing the information. It's astonishing how easily and quickly we can become instant experts about very complex ideas. If I don't know something, you can be sure I can find out. That's what this new age is about. And this is just through text. Web 2.0 brought more complexity to the internet, but what about Web 3.0? Could they put an end to books and texts as we know it? Now some historians have called this generation the "dumbest" but why? Because we don't know who the 24th President is? Or we don't know where a certain country is? Give me two seconds and I can find out for you. Do you see what is happening here? Do you see what will happen here? Can you explain why when one man has discovered something, that ten people like him around the world also discover it immediately afterward? Is there already a collective consciousness? But I digress. It seems like tech companies are racing towards one ultimate goal: communication; the faster, the easier, the better (but of course, under their system only). The race is becoming more and more competitive; with technologies becoming smaller and more precise. Everyone is wanting to be the "next"; the next iPod, the next Razor, the next iPhone. It's been 7 years since the iPod was released and now look at the technology we have access to. Can you imagine what we can't live without 7 years from now? NOTE: I saw today a commercial for a new phone that allows webcam like chat over your cellphone. This has been in Japan for quite sometime, but it's astonishing how quickly our technology is moving. Soon enough it'll be the staple, I'm sure. Companies who plan to become rich shouldn't be thinking about the next iPod or the next iPhone. No, no, they should be thinking about the next infrastructure, the next base for technology to climb to. Do you really think in 10 years that our cellphones and TV screens will be anything like they are today? There are already screens out now that can literally fold and wrap around itself and nanotechnologies and chemical sciences that have literally shrank the size of a computer chip to a speck of dust. Technology is coming. It's coming fast; really fast. And in the end, you will have two personas: yourself and your digital self. Both of whom are just as important and literally feed off each other in a symbiotic type of relationship. Can you picture the technology of the future? Can you picture your lives in the future? For instance, I have a lot of ideas of what will literally shatter the perceptions and the foundations of how we learn (especially in classes and universities around the world) that I am keeping tight lipped about; but I'd like to say one thing: interactivity is the key. There is nothing more engaging and more interesting than interaction. The act of change or the ability to change: it is why we do everything. Think about it. Now, I don't know why I am writing this; perhaps because I plan to make my fortune with technology or maybe the intangible feeling of catching and writing down your thoughts; but what I do know is that science will rule the world. Hell, ever since we dropped the bomb it already has. Still, someday, when our collective thought can finally be tapped into and our goals and aspirations for our world can finally utilize the entire worlds energy, where we focus on problems with all our might; it is science that will prevail. The natural laws of this world will tumble and make way for a transition that literally scares the living hell out of me. It is then that we will find out what humans really are: innately good or innately evil.

WOOOOOOOOOOOT! Election day! Election day! Election dAAAYYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYYYYY!

Music is amazing!

I wish everyone had his esteem.

Wow..... This thread filled up with a bunch of bullshit quicker than expected. Ugh......Where are your sources?

The game has always been more of a puzzle game than a boxing game. The proof is that you only have 4 punches: bottom/top left, bottom/top right. That's it. It wouldn't be right if they added wiimotion plus. It would make sense to do so. The balance board, however, would be neat for dodging.

We talking about Madden, Tiger Woods, or NBA Live? I'm confused.

I'm sorry, but as much as I love the classics, I've grown to love more Nintendo's ability constantly surprise me with better and better games. Look at the evolution of any Nintendo series that began on the NES and you'll see what I mean.

Why change what isn't broken?

There is nothing to program with respect to motion+. What you have to do is make the game world responsive enough to do deal with motion+, but that isn't different from any other game. No extra time is needed. In fact, it'll probably be easier to program rather than programming individual swings like they do now. SMG was definitely much different than SM64. Yes you controlled Mario the same, but the world and gameplay were completely different. Gravity was never a big deal in 64, but in Galaxy, that's all it's about.

Concerning swinging a sword? No. It's really good at that. Concerning swinging a sword very accurately? Yes. It isn't very good at that. Can the wiimote as is detect variable speed? Not accurately. It can, but it loses it when the movements are small. Will motion+ be able to accurately represent my hand motions 1:1 (concerning speed, position, x/y/z axis)? Yes. That is what it was built for.

You are absolutely right, and that game is awesome. But do you really think that SK wouldn't have used motion+ if they could have? It would have greatly streamlined the fighting engine.

That's not it though. Imagine an enemy that has several weak points but only one shows at a time. You'll have to first strike from left to right, then diagonally from top right to bottom left, then stab, then finally strike down from the top. This makes the experience much much deeper. Now apply that thinking to the rest of the game and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Umm....what? Can you really not visualize what I"m saying?

Ya. Maybe your right. It would probably be better suited for a FPS..... Still, this is only PART 1 and I must ask you all to be patient. The reason I brought up motion+ wasn't because I'm trying to force it into the game. You mentioned being able to slash around with the wiimote already, and that's great except it didn't do anything a button couldn't do. It's when you focus on making the game around motion+ that things really start to pop. For instance, now that you have more control over your sword, the game should challenge you accordingly. There should be situations that reward/punish you for swinging in the right direction. If enemies are presented more as a puzzle rather than something to continually swipe at, then it'll be more fun and more challenging to fight those enemies. But that's just a small part of the game. Zelda was never known for it's fighting, but rather, it's exploring. So imagine the many scenarios that could only happen if you had full control over your sword. Whether it's cutting through vines, cutting out an object, or slicing rope; no other game in history will allow you the type of precision and control. It's not only about immersion, but the many puzzles that can only exist when you have that type of control. Part II will deal with the actual structure of the game.

Why Zelda Wii will probably be the best game ever. Part I I don't mean for this post to overly hype this game up. I am simply looking at the possibilities. But let there be no mistake, this could be the greatest game of all time. While it may not be the consensus, I felt that Twilight Princess played a little dated. Which is strange because it had everything I could want; more items, more dungeons, more side-quests, more characters, more interaction; but for some reason, it felt like I already played it. Now don't get me wrong, TP is a masterful game. I recently finished beating it for the fifth time. Still, I can't help but feel that if Nintendo doesn't up-end the table in terms of how to design the new Zelda game, it's going to feel old no matter what else they try to add and throw in. I am confident that Nintendo can experiment away from the classic Zelda foundation and find something that is fresh and exciting, but is still Zelda at its core. Just look at Metriod Prime and most notably, Mario Galaxy. Games can be completely different but still contain what you really loved about their past iterations. Now enough prefacing, let's get down to the nitty gritty. Let's start by looking at the basics. Control. With the introduction of the Motion+, the Wii can finally translate so many potential actions accurately. But before I get into the possibilities, let me explain how it would work first. Imagine the nunchuck controlling your "body" (both your movement and your view), and the wiimote controlling everything else. You would walk by using the analog stick and survey your area by tilting the nunchuck. Looking up would require you to tilt the nunchuck's nose up, similar to a plane. To rotate the camera to the left or right, you would rotate the nunchuck on its side. The sensitivity could be changed to allow for slower or faster turning, but regardless, very subtle movement of the nunchuck is all that is needed to move the camera. This might seem redundant because of Zelda's impeccable camera work, but it's still nice to have full control when you need it (no more FP view to settle the camera on the direction you'd like to face). The reason for this setup is to completely separate the wiimote from any body or camera movements. This allows it freedom to control everything else you might need. With motion+ in hand, Link can finally manipulate his items realistically, opening up a huge world of possibilities, including making the context-sensitive button, less sensitive to every context. Link is now able to pick up debris such as sticks, metal pipes, and planks and realistically use those items in the environment. For instance, the walls are closing in on you; to save yourself, you must pick up a metal pipe and literally shove it into an exposed gear. That's just a simple example, and shoving the gear in place doesn't have to be overly specific in terms of where you place it, but the level of interactivity is still leaps ahead of the usual "pick up item; run around pressing 'A' until the appropriate context pops up" standard. There are literally thousands of item/context related situations that can finally put a very thorough slab of ingenuity and creative thinking back into the franchise; from ropes to sticks, to keys and pies (yup even pie). Just imagine all the ridiculous side-quests and games that could emerge due to Motion+. Now when it comes to Link's actual items, he can have a whole range of new items that weren't feasible before. For instance, weapons such as axes, spears, and hammers can now make a more fleshed out appearance; the hammer especially. They can all have different attributes pertaining to the environment as well as enemies. Other items such as the Lens of Truth and the Mirror Shield, can make triumphant come backs. New items such as claws, lassos, hell even umbrellas can join the fray. But even with all that, to really seem fresh and to really seem like the best game of all time, Zelda needs more than just immersion. Part II coming soon....