Grazza

1. Wind Waker - The technical and artistic highlight of the series. Just brilliant in too many ways to list. 2. Super Mario Sunshine - For me, still the best 3D Mario. It was great being able to nudge the camera into exactly the position I wanted, and the atmosphere on Sirena Beach was enchanting. 3. F-Zero GX - The best F-Zero since the SNES. Very intense - perhaps too intense later on. 4. Metroid Prime - Took me years to appreciate (and complete) but it is indeed great. Such a neat, well-designed and intense game. 5. Twilight Princess - Not as well-designed or perfect as the games above it, but certainly deserves to be in the Top 5. Hyrule Field and Lake Hylia were highlights. 6. Prince of Persia: Sands of Time - If only for the sexy belly dancers. 7. Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction - Grr!! Few games have captured the feeling of raw power as much as this! Tanks! Planes! The Abomination! 8. Spider-Man 2 - Laugh all you like, it was brilliant! 9. Skies of Arcadia - A very good, cheerful RPG. Probably the best I've played after Dragon Quest VIII/IX. 10. Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door - One of the reasons I bought a 'Cube. The origami alone was spectacular. Ah, how I miss the GameCube. A console that wasn't designed for the FPS crowd or the casual crowd, it was just designed to be bloomin' good, and it succeeded admirably. Best console ever.

Oh yeah, being immune to gossip is important. Not just romantically, but for everything.

I'm going to play it at a normal pace, then do the remaining side quests later. Did that with Wind Waker. That 2nd week of gameplay, fully exploring the Great Sea, is probably the best gaming experience I've ever had. I think GamesRadar were saying that it's the equivalent of TP, with Skyward Sword doing some things better, and TP excelling in other areas, which is pretty much what I expected. Not sure why they didn't compare it to the N64 Zeldas - I think they were just comparing the three built on similar technology. Anyway, I'm not going to argue with @Burny. It'd just be bickering, and I don't feel like there's anything specific to respond to. I will say though I probably haven't explained myself very well. I haven't judged Skyward Sword yet, I am excited about it and I don't care if I don't like it. If anything, I was saying I'm not worried about the motion controls, as the whole game seems very experimental. The Wii is the Wii. It's quite an appropriate time for an experimental Zelda. I was only exasperated by two things: 1) people dismissing the slightly negative reviews (we don't know if they're right yet) and 2) Aonuma suggesting motion control is here to stay. I just think Skyward Sword should be properly evaluated first. Reviews are part of that, but so is gamer feedback. Like I say, the people who actually decide whether to buy it or not with their own money!

Dragon Quest X looks plain terrible... It does! Xenoblade... genuinely don't think it's a very good game. This... haven't judged it yet, I just don't understand why people get annoyed at the criticisms. The people who are sure they'll love this are pre-judging it as much as anyone else. What happened? I've enjoyed almost everything I've played on the 3DS. Maybe I'm just tired of the Wii. Skyward Sword feels like the end of a console I just didn't get on with. I quite like it, but it doesn't blow me away like Wind Waker or the Wii U demo. I just don't really like "inbetween" styles, in terms of either visuals or gameplay. Still, I'm not saying it looks bad, just that for me to think of it as a 10/10 game it'd have to have 10/10 visuals. I'm not sure how much you've read, Ronnie, and I don't want to spoil it for you, but to me the game world doesn't sound like it's gone in the right direction. We'll see.

That's funny, I never, ever heard people moan about that type of control or want something different! I don't have a predetermined opinion on motion control. I had an open mind until I tried it. Gamesradar quote from @Hero\-of\-Time: Oh dear! Not better than TP? Then again, TP was a very good game, in parts. Quote supplied by @Dante: I honestly don't understand why this isn't considered a valid criticism. I've played a couple of MotionPlus games (Wii Sports Resort and Red Steel 2) and you do end up thinking about where your arm is, what it's doing and if it's got enough room around it. That's a valid point. It's not asking for waggle. I share your sentiments, but from what I've read and seen, I doubt this would be a 10/10 anyway. Not for me. I'm basing this on the game structure, visual style and, let's face it, the game's SD in an HD world. Basically, I still hope Skward Sword is good, but I want to get it out of the way really.

Well, this is just ridiculous, as the game's not even out yet. What if most of the fans think the control scheme is not as good as Wind Waker (the peak of traditional control, as far as Zelda goes)? Also, Aonuma quite rightly wants to use the Wii U controller. So, are we going to have to hold that and a Wii remote and Nunchuk? I'm hoping he just meant he'd like to use the gyroscope that's in the Wii U controller, in the same way the 3DS has "motion control". At the very least, they should put a gyroscope in the Nunchuk too. I don't want to be using actual Wii controllers for the Wii U! Let's wait and see what people think when they've played it anyway. The people who have to buy their games, I mean, not the magazines who get the game supplied free and feel duty bound to hype up any genuinely big Nintendo release...

Games are rated for what console they're on, eg. Super Mario World was a 10/10 SNES game and still is, but probably wouldn't score 10/10 if it was a retail game for the Wii U (it shouldn't, anyway!) In that sense, both Galaxy games were scored correctly, as I believe they are the two best games on Wii. However, were they as good as Mario 64 or Sunshine at the time? For me, no. Doesn't make much difference though, as they were both excellent, both well worth playing and I spent loads of time on both!

For me, a lot of it is due to how much I enjoyed Wind Waker, and how little I knew about it. I knew the premise about the giant bird, I knew the mode of transport and I knew it had islands, but that was about it. I had read a review or two in print magazines (which have always been more responsible than the way IGN behave, anyway), but nothing about those spoiled it for me. I then went on to enjoy it more than any other Zelda. The moments when that villain appeared and when that dodgy character asked me to free him from prison were just brilliant, taking me back to earlier games. Fast-forward to Twilight Princess. I read all the previews detailing the first two dungeons and bosses, which actually took a very long time to reach in the game. Also, IGN's review mentioned that Zoras and Zora's Domain were in it, which I don't think was necessary to reveal. So, like I say, I don't want to be over-sensitive about things like premise and transport, but things like characters, races, locations, sword and shield upgrades etc are better discovered when you play it.

I'll join you, but I'll bring the Mirror Shield (which hasn't been seen since Wind Waker, which was almost a decade ago... grr) because... I think they're both overrated! Actually, I agree with @Ville, because I did enjoy Galaxy 2 more. It's just that, although the games are brilliant visually and sonically, are very polished, have loads of variety and get all the characters just right, the central idea is simply not all that good! Running on the underside of planets is awkward, not fun, and I couldn't stand the levels that switched gravity. Both had too many Stars (242) and although I collected them all in the first game, I could never get Star 242 in the 2nd. Many hours and batteries were wasted on that, and I never got a sense of closure. It wasn't fun.

Thank you, @Retro_Link. Right, that's no more visits to IGN until I've completed it.

Mario Galaxy 3 isn't a bad idea, but I'd be more excited for Metroid Dread.

I drink loads (of non-alcoholic beverages), so I'm sure I'm not dehydrated. In other news, my belly is disappearing at an incredible rate, which is good, obviously, but it also provides a clue: Maybe all my calories are being used up after all.

I found it hard to get to sleep on Sunday night, and probably got 7 hours. Pretty sure I ate enough food though. The most likely explanation is just that I'm starting out again. I just hate the idea of alcohol inhibiting my muscle growth. N.B. I'm a few years over 30, so probably have slightly less testosterone than I did a few years ago, unfortunately.

LMAO! This is going to have to be changed to "There are quite a lot of people you might be compatible with. If you met them."

You make some excellent points, although I actually would quite like to find a few battles with Stalfos etc! Otherwise, I totally agree! RPGs have evolved in a certain way that wouldn't suit Zelda. In Xenoblade, for instance, there were lots of insignificant quests. Zelda sidequests are satisfying because of, as you say, exploration and trading sequences. I loved the photography in Wind Waker!

What does everyone think of alcohol + muscle building? Is it necessary to go totally teetotal? I've just rejoined the gym and I love it, but my muscle recovery was poor over the weekend. I'm not a big drinker - I had one pint of beer on Saturday, and I just wonder if that's enough to have a noticeable effect (eg. less reps, lower weight)? My workout was quite poor today. It's probably just because it was my 3rd visit, but I read that alcohol lowers testosterone and inhibits protein synthesis - both very bad for muscle building! I do enjoy one beer after work on Saturday, but am thinking of going teetotal if it'll help my fitness.

Have you tried the gym, dude? I only say that because I'be just rejoined (after a few years away). It makes you feel fantastic and gets you female attention, there's just nothing like it. As long as you put full effort in, you can't not improve yourself massively.

I agree. I'd find it really difficult if I had to make the decision. Handhelds should definitely use the Wind Waker style in its entirety. Consoles... well, either style works. I think I'd use Adult Link on consoles though, whetever the shading is like. Nintendo admits they were planned, but I don't think they agree they were taken out, as such. I'd like to see them though, depending on how detailed the plans were. That would be good. A topdown game, in my opinion, should use the d-pad, sprites and the Link to the Past style (and should probably be 3DS Ware). The retail games should be fully 3D and use the Circle Pad Pro. I'm not very keen on middle grounds. Metroid: Other M was a nice idea but, at the end of the day, not as good as Prime or the pure 2D games. Same could be said for Phantom Hourglass - not as immersive as the 3D games or as satisfying as the 2D ones.

Thanks dude. You know, I've come round to agreeing about the Wind Waker style suiting handhelds. I was never that keen in keeping it off home consoles, but considering how awesome the 3DS is, we can at least join the series at Wind Waker level again, and eventually even better (I want layers and layers of cel shading!) I also think many would agree that Wind Waker is the best ever style for Young Link. Young Link suits handhelds, therefore it all falls into place perfectly. Also, it's not as though I dislike the realistic style or Adult Link. Quite the contrary: the Wii U demo was amazing and the "Twilight Princess" style can just get better and better. Two best Zelda styles ever, in my opinion: Wind Waker and Twilight Princess trailer from 2004.

I suppose we'll all have a different opinion even after we've played it. However, I have heard that the combat is less analogue than Red Steel 2 or Wii Sports Resort. Apparently, the sword strikes are "locked" to an 8-way axis (and I suppose thrusting etc), but with the added accuracy of MotionPlus. (This information was in the EDGE review, which I can't access at the moment.) It sounds like an improvement to me. However, I'm still cautious because, though you may not have needed to stand up for those games, they still read your movement and speed very accurately. In other words, I doubt any MotionPlus game can be played with the simple wrist flicks of Mario Galaxy. You needed to use your whole arm, increasing the risk of banging into furniture. It's not that I hate motion control, it's just that I think there's a time and a place. If there's one thing that I hope is learnt from this generation (Kinect has helped with this), it's that there's "bedroom gaming" and there's "living room gaming". Motion control is great for the living room, but I'm not sure it's suitable for the bedroom, which is where I play Zelda (because of the time spent on it). OK, I can try and make sure I have plenty of space around me, but there's a limit to how much room there is. So, whilst I may genuinely like to be proven wrong with Skyward Sword, experience tells me otherwise.

Personally, I've not bought anything yet, for two reasons: 1) I want to buy a physical points card, and 2) I really want to wait until there's some original 3DS Ware I want. I don't play puzzle games as they affect my brain too much! I'm looking forward to getting Link's Awakening though, because even though I played it on the GBA SP and didn't enjoy it much (compared to how much I used to like the non-colour version on the Game Boy), I quite fancy having the fully-backlit version.

Very pleased to hear an original Zelda is on its way before a remake of Majora's Mask. Not that I don't want MM, I just think a brand new game should be the priority. As for a remake of Wind Waker, I tend to think remakes are best when there's clearly a whole generation of improvement upon the original - like Ocarina of Time 3D. This makes MM an ideal candidate... but not yet. Whether the 3DS could run Wind Waker, I don't know, but I'd rather see it on the Wii U when it could run at 1080p (enhanced Virtual Console) or a true remake on the next handheld.

Honestly, when I think of the amount of fun I've had with my 3DS, I can't believe people fuss about tiny details like different widths, hinges and slight screen smudges (no offence intended). I'm not going to make a huge list of all the great games for the 3DS and things you can do with it. That's been done. It's just a shame some people won't let themselves see how good it is.

I agree, Jonnas. Not that I don't share others' passion for F-Zero, it's just that I don't think we needed it on Wii. Wii U and 3DS, yes!

I like Games TM's "Better Than...", "As Good As..." and "Worse Than..." boxes, and will be interested to see how they think it slots into the Zelda series quality-wise. By the way, if anyone wants to know when IGN's review will be online - Nov 11th, apparently.