Sheikah

In joining our votes all on one person that creates multiple townies with no votes (as votes were focused on one dude) who are all eligible to get a vest, and the Mafia won't know which of us gets it. Mafia pretty much will get a vest and we won't know who, if we don't co ordinate votes. In having one less townie who can be killed, it reduces the pool of players the Mafia will target, thus makes it easier for any of our protections, role blocks or redirects to have a good effect. Really, the choice is between very good odds of town getting both shirts, or near certain odds of Mafia getting at least one.

Second: Argh. Just saw that vests protect only against kills. Disregard the above then. Still, the Mafia will probably claim one (potential vig protection), so I think it would still make sense to reduce the number of townies who can be killed so that we can concentrate our protection better.

What Peeps said in response to this. I think that's an extraordinarily weird thing to ask, Cube, are you being serious? Plus surely the fact Mafia can vote for a shirt suggests it's more than just protection from kills. For the Mafia, protection is better than being identified by a cop or being tracked, or having your kill interrupted by role blocking or redirection. Basically the kill would be unstoppable and untraceable. Sure we could deduce stuff from them being unreachable, but there's no guarantee that someone being unreachable can't be down to any number of abilities like in the last game. And it's not a given the killer will even be targeted. I think it's a much better idea to claim the shirt ourselves than leave the Mafia to probably get it.

What do you think will happen if one of us doesn't win the shirt? With 3/4 guaranteed votes on one Mafioso plus whatever other votes they randomly muster, they will win one shirt almost certainly. Do you think they might send the shirt winner to kill while being protected? Whatever way you look at it, the choice is between Mafia winning the shirt, or Mafia probably not winning the shirt.

No think about it. If we don't pick a single person to vote for, you can bet Mafia will put forward just one of their team and that person will almost certainly win. The worst thing that can happen if we put forward a person we all vote for is the same as what will certainly happen in the above; a Mafioso wins. But from a random perspective it's more likely to be town who is picked. Concentrating on one person to vote for is also better in ensuring more townies have no votes, so improves our chances of winning least popular too. Again see above, if we don't choose a person to all vote for then the Mafia will be pretty much guaranteed protection tonight by winning the popularity shirt. At least it gives one potential townie the freedom to move and not be blocked tonight, instead of a guaranteed Mafioso if we split the vote. Least popular shirt winner will still be unknown if we collaborate our votes. You could argue there's not much point as the Mafia know not to target the most popular shirt winner. But riddle me this. Don't you think the Mafia will vote for their teammate who is going to make the kill? If they do then the killer is protected, meaning potentially no cop or tracker results on them tonight.

Ok, I misunderstood the least popular thing (I thought we got to vote who we liked the most and least and most votes for either won). It makes sense that the least popular is someone with no/fewest votes. Can you just confirm that though @DuD. In which case we should definitely pick a person to vote for, to help win the most popular: The Mafia are going to combine their votes for a single scummate, let's be honest. If we vote randomly for different people (ie. whoever we feel like), the Mafia are very likely to win the most popular vote as they have a +3 / +4 advantage from the word go. At least if we randomly pick one target to vote for, there's a 3/4 chance that Mafia won't win the most popular shirt. Sure, you could say I'm a Mafioso who's putting forward a scummate when I offer up a candidate, but the alternative to this approach is that the Mafia probably win this be default anyway. Least votes is not to be worried about really, there's going to be lots of people without votes to balance that one out. Even if the Mafia counteract what we're doing here and vote for 4 of us, that still leaves a large number of townies without any votes, assuming we all vote the same person to win the most popular shirt.

It's still useful as roleblockers and redirectors have a reduced number of people to target, and there are fewer people to protect, increasing protection chance. Worst case scenario is to not co ordinate the vote whereby the Mafia will most likely gain at least one shirt. Picking 2 random recipients, if we assume the Mafia make up approximately 25% of the players or thereabouts, means there's a 50% chance that one of the two recipients is Mafia, which is better than a likely 100% above.

I would say we need to co-ordinate the T shirt votes or the Mafia are just going to swing them for themselves.

I really wish they had brought online to the 3DS version if that's the case. Is completely soloing it unenjoyable then?

If you find the memory card switching annoying, you can always remote play Chrono Cross from your PS3 to your Vita without having to do any of that. Game quality visuals takes a small dip though.

It's true. Vote: No Lynch

Man, the likening to PSO makes me want this. I also like to grind in games... I take if I was to buy the 3DS version, if I one day bought the WiiU I could transfer my character? I am bummed about needing a WiiU to go online, but might still pick up the 3DS version.

I'll play.

No worries, it's just a good idea to be really clear with people's roles so this can't happen (If Dedede hadn't been able to target me he wouldn't have been against me and I wouldn't have thought he was lying/Mafia). All in all though I really enjoyed this, apart from being accused of shit at the end. Well done Jimbob.

My general solution to that is to be careful and don't drop your phone. :p Also come on, Nexus 4 is worth recommending.

I know you had your reasons, but the point I was making is that lying can have benefits (even though it can backfire and get non Mafia lynched). Wow...sorry you got lynched in the end, but you really shouldn't have got a PM saying anything about me. As I say, here was my extra clarification PM from Jimbob: All night actions he said, and 'everything', which would include tracking. If he changed his mind about what I could protect against after talking to the Mafia then I really think he should have told me, as this was the main reason why I didn't trust you Dedede.

Yeah it's all true what you're saying. If you have that opportunity then you take it. I didn't have the opportunity unfortunately. Hence, I lied! Right, despite 2 other people as well as me saying I wasn't the one who caused town to lose, and another saying I was the town MVP in his opinion, you still think that I'm the 'risky' guy who lost the game for town? You are entitled to your opinion, but calling out people for losing the game unfairly is only going to make you yourself look arrogant.

Well, you can think that. You had it easy to get that lynch...people had voiced that they wanted to lynch him already even if they hadn't acted on it. You placed a vote on him...people followed. I'd hardly say you were instrumental in securing his lynch, it's not like you really had to convince people. What if I really was an alignment investigator? I'd still have had to have gone through all the convincing just as I did. The path was easier for you as people didn't need convincing for Gane; they already thought he was suspicious. Also bear in mind that Yvonne didn't have the role I did so it wasn't something as simple as saying 'he has my role, so he must be scum'. You're comparing apples with oranges.

But you were massively assisted by the existing suspicion on Gane because of his hammer... I think if Gane never hammered, I don't think your claim would have resulted in his swift lynch.

Oh, now where is the fun in that. Has anyone tried a game where everyone reveals their complete lot of information at the very beginning of the game (Mafia lying of course).

My justification was fairly good - he appeared to me to have speed lynched Aqui1a, then I couldn't find him when I went to track him that night. I couldn't ascribe anyone having protected him to explain why he wasn't around, so chances were it was a Mafia ability. Also as the day went on it got worse as he was saying he tracked me which was pretty damn unlikely given I was protected, and I didn't believe he would have just targeted the right person to exonerate himself by chance. Really though is there ever 100% verifiable proof in Mafia? It's kinda a punt whenever you start a lynch (even cops can be fooled). If the lynch was incorrect then I would have been shocked, but at the end of the day it is a game and the end result of a bad lynch is not having your nads chopped off in real life...

Yeah I agree - Peeps held a lot of power, and I don't criticise Peeps in any way on his decisions as on paper I did seem quite scummy. But when you look at it another way, if it was say you who had a double vote, and Cube joined his vote to yours, it would have gone entirely differently. It was just unlucky really that there was a vote powerhouse not with me. Thanks. Yeah, Aqui1a lynch not happening could just as easily have prevented the game over when it happened, me not protecting myself would have got me killed in the night phase before rather than the later day phase after I had cast suspicion on Yvonne. There are so many possibilities really. Which is why @Rummy, the reason I have responded a lot here is because I don't find it nice/sporting to be told that my lies are what lost the game! I don't think most people agree anyway, more a combination of factors and the final lynch being a toughie. You had no proof. Your argument was that you were a roleblocker townie so Gane couldn't be a roleblocker townie, rather roleblocker Maf. Yet there were two town trackers and 3 town protectors of varying degrees. So your call at the end of the day was founded on meta assumptions, as was mine.

I think we will have to agree to disagree here then, as the bolded part I do not believe is a 'set in stone' rule for town (although often it is the case), whereas you do, so I don't see anything more coming out of this. See you're saying I was being arrogant, but I was genuinely, without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt convinced that Yvonne was Mafia, but I literally felt I had no means to prove it given my role and information. My information was enough to convince me, but I don't think it would have done enough to convince town. In fact, if I gave my information I was pretty fearful it would have just incriminated me. I'm not saying you don't have any eye for strategy Rummy, just that you're taking such a hard line on the lying which can be useful to do sometimes.

Well that's great - you had actual information to reveal, I didn't. So I dared to lie to get Yvonne lynched, eventually. Which yes, I do think I strongly encouraged as people were saying they would vote Yvonne if I was town. Also your reveal that you were a roleblocker and town, thus Gane must be Mafia, was actually quite a bad thing to seed (there were two town trackers for instance). DuD also used this to discredit there being another protector (again, I was another protector). Basically your argument about Gane was based on assumption, not something I'd say was hard fact. Really I think the most suspicious thing about Gane was his hammer, and people were already suspicious of him. I also don't see why you are gauging strategy on speed of lynch - sure my affair was drawn out, but we got a good feel of the players in the process, and did we all not have FUN? (the most important thing )