The Star Wars Thread

[Hero-of-Time]

It is over.

What a finale. Man, that's some good TV!

Spoiler

The whole episode was amazing. I thought the production values were top notch, so much so I felt like I was watching a movie and not a TV show.

The Rancor showing up and cleaning house was awesome to behold and seeing little Grogu waddle onto the battle field was hilarious.

Overall I thought it was a great series that managed to have the right mix of story and action. Would I have liked a little more Boba Fett in a series about him? Sure. However, I appreciate the world they are building with the characters in both series.

Not sure what that mid credit scene was all about though. Is Boba getting modified and is it without him knowing?

 

[Ronnie]

Well, I guess I'm heading to Star Wars Celebration! 

10ish hour flight to LA, a couple of days to look around, four days at Celebration, and then a couple at Galaxy's Edge.

Should be a decent experience! ...I hope 

[Julius]

On 21/03/2022 at 3:10 PM, Ronnie said:

Well, I guess I'm heading to Star Wars Celebration! 

10ish hour flight to LA, a couple of days to look around, four days at Celebration, and then a couple at Galaxy's Edge.

Should be a decent experience! ...I hope 

That's awesome Ronnie -- have a great time, and make sure to take plenty of pics! 

Won't lie I'm a little (read: very!) jealous, and we all know where that leads 

I don't think the schedule has been announced yet (?), but are there any panels you're hoping for/plan to attend in particular at SWC? Any particular merch you're going to be trying to hunt down either at SWC or at Galaxy's Edge? Are you flying (Han) solo or going with anyone/meeting anyone there? And any other places you might try to check out while in LA? 

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but the last two years have me foaming at the mouth to do some travelling, so I'm just excited for you 

[Ronnie]

38 minutes ago, Julius said:

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but the last two years have me foaming at the mouth to do some travelling, so I'm just excited for you 

Thanks so much, bombard away haha, I'll be in this thread posting pics constantly don't worry  

I was in two minds whether to go at all to be honest. Their 4-day livestream in 2019 was excellent so I was tempted to just enjoy it from the comfort of home, but in the end after the couple of years we've had, I thought why not. Flying (Han) solo to Celebration but I've a mate in LA for the rest of it. You'll have a great time watching the show though if it's up to the same standard as three years ago.

No the schedule isn't out yet. It was only published a few weeks before the 2019 one so still a ways to go I think. I'm keeping my expectations in check tbh, I don't think this one will have quite the line-up as the previous one (Ep IX, Mando, Galaxy's Edge, Jedi Fallen Order etc) but hopefully it'll be decent. It's hard to predict what sort of panels there'll be. Lucasfilm Games and Andor panels seem like safe bets but beyond that I'm not sure. Feels like the films are a ways out, although they might announce one? Rumours of one being made in secret for release next year. Maybe general Disney+ and/or Animation panels? I think it's the anniversary of Ep II, so they'll prob do one on that too. Looking forward to finally seeing something from Andor. I'm also hoping for some behind the scenes type panels like Doug Chiang's brilliant one from 2019. A Rebels reunion would obv be the dream, but I guess it's more likely they'll have a Bad Batch one and show us the first episode of S2, if it's not out by then that is.

Star Wars Explained and Force Center Podcast are saying they'll do some sort of meet and greet, which'll be fun. Huge fan of their wor, it's the only SW content i watch/listen to online tbh. Passionate but very level-headed, a rare mix with online fandom!

I'm not too fussed about autographs or selfies, but I think Greg Grunberg is going to be there so I'll get my Snap Wexley bobblehead signed by him. Big fan. Likewise if Steve Blum is there I'll have to buy a Zeb action figure and get him to sign that.

No real plans to buy any specific merch, I'll just see what's there. I'm going to book into the Droid builder (hmm, a BB or R5 model...) + lightsaber maker (green blade for sure) event things at Galaxy's Edge. Very pricey but silly to go all the way there and not do at least one of those. Hoping to ride Rise of the Resistance, it's apparently excellent, just need to be quick to get a virtual queue spot when they come online. 

As for LA in general, I'm not too sure what the plan is there, there'll be a day and a half of looking around so I'll do some research on stuff to do.

[Julius]

Obi-Wan Kenobi premiere date pushed from May 25th to May 27th, which will now be a premiere double hitter:

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Julius

[Ronnie]

I wonder why? Considering it's reverting to Wednesdays from the following week on I wonder if it has something to do with Celebration? That seems a stretch though, can't think of any other reason.

[Julius]

42 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I wonder why? Considering it's reverting to Wednesdays from the following week on I wonder if it has something to do with Celebration? That seems a stretch though, can't think of any other reason.

It's a very bizarre decision. I did wonder myself if it could be down to Celebration - maybe they could have a panel on the Thursday where they do the premiere? - but I have a really hard time struggling to think that that's the reasoning. 

At the end of the day, when it comes to Disney+, Disney have been pretty stone cold and calculated (they're moving it from the date of the 45th anniversary, so unless they've got some big plans for the day before SWC starts, I don't know what they're thinking), which is why I don't think SWC will be the reason (and if it is, I think that will show in its scheduling, so I guess we'll find out soon enough?).

It honestly could be as simple as wanting to destroy some "first day of streaming" record or something along those lines - which I actually think Disney would care about - and I reckon they've got the numbers to back up that they get more views premiering a show on a Friday and across the weekend than they do on a Wednesday and across Thursday/Friday.

Until we see the SWC schedule its hard to think of a reason otherwise, and it's very odd timing that this is announced the day following Moon Knight's premiere on a Wednesday. The news came absolutely out of the blue, so maybe it underwhelmed, but would they really be that reactionary and swap things around that quickly? 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Julius

[Ronnie]

16 hours ago, Julius said:

It's a very bizarre decision. I did wonder myself if it could be down to Celebration - maybe they could have a panel on the Thursday where they do the premiere? - but I have a really hard time struggling to think that that's the reasoning. 

At the end of the day, when it comes to Disney+, Disney have been pretty stone cold and calculated (they're moving it from the date of the 45th anniversary, so unless they've got some big plans for the day before SWC starts, I don't know what they're thinking), which is why I don't think SWC will be the reason (and if it is, I think that will show in its scheduling, so I guess we'll find out soon enough?).

It honestly could be as simple as wanting to destroy some "first day of streaming" record or something along those lines - which I actually think Disney would care about - and I reckon they've got the numbers to back up that they get more views premiering a show on a Friday and across the weekend than they do on a Wednesday and across Thursday/Friday.

Until we see the SWC schedule its hard to think of a reason otherwise, and it's very odd timing that this is announced the day following Moon Knight's premiere on a Wednesday. The news came absolutely out of the blue, so maybe it underwhelmed, but would they really be that reactionary and swap things around that quickly? 

I'm going to assume it's because they decided they want a panel at Celebration on the Thursday to re-unite Ewan and Hayden on stage, and they think the internet chatter about that will make the numbers even bigger the following day? It's a pretty good way to intro the show. 

[Julius]

2 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I'm going to assume it's because they decided they want a panel at Celebration on the Thursday to re-unite Ewan and Hayden on stage, and they think the internet chatter about that will make the numbers even bigger the following day? It's a pretty good way to intro the show. 

Yeah, potentially, that's what I was getting at with wanting to premiere it at it Celebration - they could absolutely have a panel leading into it (or following) with the cast and show everyone there the first two episodes a day early. They've done stuff like that before, and hey I'm all for it if it means a better time for those attending SWC, it's just the lack of justification in their press statement which catches me off guard? 

It's just very un-Disney to move things around on Disney+ a few weeks after a trailer and poster with the date plastered all over it and not have thought about that already, especially on 31st March (the last day of the FY), because it's pretty middling news. Could just have been a case of needing to confirm their attendance I guess (COVID and whatnot), because I imagine their potential appearances at SWC would be baked into their contracts (COVID permitting), but it's just...odd, for lack of a better word 

[Ronnie]

Sounds like this is going to be the big one:

And announced the next day, a Mando specific panel 

And a few hours later:

Nice! Looking forward to this one.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Ronnie

[Julius]

We're just over a month away from Obi-Wan Kenobi, and we finally - finally! - have a confirmed main composer: Natalie Holt, of Loki fame! 

Favourite part of the Q&A:

Quote

How did you and Williams come to work in tandem?

Obi-Wan is a legacy character that John hadn’t written a theme for because he died quite early on in A New Hope. It’s the only legacy character that he hadn’t done. So he spoke to [Lucasfilm president] Kathleen Kennedy and said, “I just want to write Benny a theme.” So who can deny him that? And he did, he wrote the Obi theme, and it just embodies the spirit of the show entirely.

Man, this puts my hype through the roof. Say what you will about the quality of some other parts of the shows at times, inarguably the most consistent part - from a certain point of view, and that point of view being my own!  - is that the quality of the music has been phenomenal in every project since the Disney takeover. 

Cannot wait to hear what Natalie Holt injects into Star Wars. Kind of praying that she pays homage where it feels necessary and for a hype play on Battle of the Heroes and Duel of the Fates (yeah we had it in the trailer, but now I've got what I want once, why would I not want it again?!), but I'm also really interested to see what she might do in terms of original themes, or playing on lesser known themes you might still expect to turn up (such as Imperial Inquisition from Rebels, though that's already a track paying homage to a lot of things as it is!). 

For anyone who has no idea why this is an exciting announcement, as you haven't watched Loki, think she's probably put out the best theme for a Marvel show on Disney+ so far:

So yeah, I'm excited. Just imagine the Inquisitors turning up to something like that 

[Ronnie]

New Obi-Wan images released through Total Film magazine:

Old Ben branching out with the colour palette  

This place looks fantastic, such a cool looking location.

Grand Inquisitor looking a lot better here 

[Julius]

20 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

New Obi-Wan images released through Total Film magazine:

Old Ben branching out with the colour palette  

Can't tell whether he's trying to channel his inner Bail Organa or trying to upstage Cal Kestis here  (I also dig it, just seeing someone in the shade and in a blue like that on Tatooine makes me feel cooler when I think about it)

21 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

This place looks fantastic, such a cool looking location

Yeah, Daiyu looks great. Absolutely like a "ground level" Coruscant knock-off, but great, and I will gladly take it seeing as you can't put Obi-Wan on Coruscant in this show! 

23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Grand Inquisitor looking a lot better here

Yeah, it really shows you just how important a good angle and framing is, kind of makes the decision to give the trailer house the footage that they did even more baffling. Still don't think it looks great, but it's definitely better, so if they aren't go to touch GI up in post- then I really hope we don't get too many shots of him head-on 

How's the prep for Celebration next month going by the way? I saw the other day that Ewan is doing signings and photos, sounds like that could be cool! I'm a little baffled that we're just over a month out and still don't have a solid schedule of what's happening, as I was trying to figure out if I should take the Friday off and so looked up the panel times at SWC 2015 – was surprised everything was confirmed as early as March! 

[Ronnie]

10 minutes ago, Julius said:

Yeah, it really shows you just how important a good angle and framing is, kind of makes the decision to give the trailer house the footage that they did even more baffling. Still don't think it looks great, but it's definitely better, so if they aren't go to touch GI up in post- then I really hope we don't get too many shots of him head-on 

The zoom in with the spinning blades was a really cool shot to use for the trailer, but it definitely made the GI himself look a little dorky. Personally I'm not massively fussed on appearance or physical portrayal (though maybe bookmark this comment when live-action Ezra or Sabine are revealed... ), I will say the dialogue from the Inquisitor in the trailer was really cool, so as long as he's a good compelling character I'm fine with it. 

13 minutes ago, Julius said:

How's the prep for Celebration next month going by the way? I saw the other day that Ewan is doing signings and photos, sounds like that could be cool! I'm a little baffled that we're just over a month out and still don't have a solid schedule of what's happening, as I was trying to figure out if I should take the Friday off and so looked up the panel times at SWC 2015 – was surprised everything was confirmed as early as March! 

Good thanks! My todo list of stuff to sort keeps getting longer! I'm not much for autographs or photo ops, though if Greg Grunberg or Steve Blum are about I'll get them to sign their characters funko pop or something. Though actually, any of the Rebels cast will be tough to resist. If you'd like anyone to sign anything let me know and I can sort it + post it to you? Or any merch in general tbh.

As for panels, I imagine there's a lot more moving parts this time around so that's why it's taking longer for them to all be announced. Celebration 2019 it was 2-3 weeks before when they published the full line-up, so probably this week or next I would say. Can't say I'm getting my hopes up in terms of actually being in the room for most of them though, from reports it sounds like the lottery system they run, whilst definitely for the best, means it's very tough to get in given the number of people in attendance. 

My two favourite YouTubers/Podcasters are doing a combined fan panel though, which is cool, looking forward to that. 

[Julius]

Celebration schedule is up:

Looks like a fun line-up, but what a bizarre way to confirm the long rumoured Tales of the Jedi as being a thing. Curious to see exactly what sort of length we're expecting considering they're calling it a collection of "animated anthology shorts", though. 

On 25/04/2022 at 3:39 PM, Ronnie said:

The zoom in with the spinning blades was a really cool shot to use for the trailer, but it definitely made the GI himself look a little dorky. Personally I'm not massively fussed on appearance or physical portrayal (though maybe bookmark this comment when live-action Ezra or Sabine are revealed... ), I will say the dialogue from the Inquisitor in the trailer was really cool, so as long as he's a good compelling character I'm fine with it. 

Yeah, I get what you mean. For me a lot of them have been pretty great in mid- and wide shots, but it's the close-ups where things fall apart a bit, like with a certain gunslinger in BOBF. Not a huge deal, but yeah, character first and then costume after, but I think it definitely resonates more on the occasions where they manage to nail both. Poor Sung Kang...

On 25/04/2022 at 3:39 PM, Ronnie said:

Good thanks! My todo list of stuff to sort keeps getting longer! I'm not much for autographs or photo ops, though if Greg Grunberg or Steve Blum are about I'll get them to sign their characters funko pop or something. Though actually, any of the Rebels cast will be tough to resist. If you'd like anyone to sign anything let me know and I can sort it + post it to you? Or any merch in general tbh.

As for panels, I imagine there's a lot more moving parts this time around so that's why it's taking longer for them to all be announced. Celebration 2019 it was 2-3 weeks before when they published the full line-up, so probably this week or next I would say. Can't say I'm getting my hopes up in terms of actually being in the room for most of them though, from reports it sounds like the lottery system they run, whilst definitely for the best, means it's very tough to get in given the number of people in attendance. 

My two favourite YouTubers/Podcasters are doing a combined fan panel though, which is cool, looking forward to that. 

That's good, sounds like you're in for a great time! Thanks for the offer re: potentially sorting signed stuff, but I know how busy it'll be there and how hectic signings specifically can get, so wouldn't want you to take up any of your time there! Fingers crossed that you do come across some of the folk you hope to see though and can get signings from them, that would be really cool  I might take you up on the offer for a little something of merch if possible? I don't know if they've shown any of that stuff off, but I know SWC always seems to nail it with exclusive items (I remember seeing their Loth-cat plushies and thinking they were awesome), so if I see anything once it's announced I might drop you a line if possible? But no big deal if not, I just want to hear about the crazy things you end up picking up during your trip 

Yeah, you're right, they've definitely left a little late before, and I mean we've got panels now at least. I guess I kind of felt that way because in 2019 I think we had a really clear picture of what to expect before the schedule was even announced (Rise of Skywalker, Mando, etc.) whereas, at least now, it's definitely more spread out, and there's so much in the works simultaneously that it almost feels like they'll have a smaller % of things to show in a way? Speaking of which, I don't seem to see a video games panel – wonder if that's something we'll get confirmed closer to the time, but it's pretty curious, as that's something I really expected to see? I guess there are other panels they could just drop a Jedi Fallen Order sequel trailer at, though 

I hear you on the busyness of some of those panels and the slim likelihood of getting in. It's a weird one and I think a great time can be had not going to every panel, but if/when I ever go to Celebration, I'd definitely want to make my way into some of the main ones...but the chance just seems so slim without a Jedi Master VIP pass, which it feels like you need to be seduced by the allure of the Dark Side for, otherwise I think waiting in line could simply take up too much time which could be spent elsewhere at Celebration? 

Which YouTubers/Podcasters are you referring to for the combined panel? That sounds like it could be very cool, and honestly maybe more than the hype for new stuff, the allure of Star Wars Celebration has to be just spending time surrounded by other huge Star Wars fans. I'm sure you'll have a great time! 

[Ronnie]

Wow, that's a seriously packed schedule. I was expecting about half of what we're getting. In 2019 there were three panels each day, this year there are up to ten! Now obviously a few of the extra ones are a lot more low key (like does anyone really care about the Star Wars Hunters panel ), but still, very exciting. Really hoping it's all live-streamed so you can enjoy the whole thing @Julius, I assume it will be.

Like you said, the one glaring omission is nothing on Lucasfilm Games or the Fallen Order sequel in particular. Really surprising. I guess the game just isn't ready? They never announced a release date but a lot of outlets were suggesting Q4 of this year, looks like it might need more time. 

Re: Tales of the Jedi, I think they're all in on Obi-Wan marketing atm so won't to muddy the waters with other stuff. Looking forward to seeing what it is. Shame the project leaked though or else this would have been a nice little surprise.

The announced a lottery/reservation system for the panels and store too, which is nice, hopefully it all works well. 

Personally the panels I'm most interested in:

Lucasfilm’s Studio Showcase: The big one. Excited to finally see some Andor content, feels like it's been in development for years. Hoping for an update on the film side of things, Rogue Squadron confirmed as still going ahead would be great, even if it doesn't end up being the first film out (which I think would be for the best really)

The High Republic: A really great and refreshing era, that seems to have been mapped out from the beginning. It's a testament to how beloved this era is that this panel is on the second biggest stage.

The Summer of LEGO Star Wars: Curious about this one, it's the main panel on day 2 so sounds like it could be pretty substantial.

Lucasfilm Publishing: Behind the Page: Yes please. I'm a big fan of the non-fiction Star Wars books, the Abrams and especially DK titles, and this panel is dedicated to that.

Mando+ :  A Conversation with Jon Favreau & Dave Filoni: Duh.

Behind the Scenes of The Mandalorian & The Book of Boba Fett: Interesting that this is its own separate panel, literally right after the previous one. But yeah, give me all the behind the scenes stuff!!

Tales of the Jedi: It's kind of nice to go into a panel not knowing anything about the project. I wonder what kind of animation style it'll go for. Something as high quality as The Bad Batch or more like Galaxy of Adventures (still really great looking but obviously a big step down)

Doug Chiang: Designing THE MANDALORIAN: YES. I'm desperate to get into this one. Was hoping for a Doug Chiang panel. His one on The Phantom Menace in 2019 was great.

I am C-3PO with Anthony Daniels: Come on, who doesn't love Anthony Daniels.

Star Wars: The Bad Batch Season 2: Massive fan of the show, one of my most hyped panels for sure, really excited. Hope I get into this one. It'll be nice to finally get a release date, feels like it was pushed to a bit later in the year than originally intended, but that's pure speculation really.

Wonderful World of Wookiees: Sure why not, 

There's also a ton of non-Lucasfilm run panels though annoyingly, the first one I see that looks interesting 'How to Build a Star Wars Droid!' is on at exactly the same time as the LF Showcase! Who does that?! 

3 hours ago, Julius said:

I might take you up on the offer for a little something of merch if possible? I don't know if they've shown any of that stuff off, but I know SWC always seems to nail it with exclusive items (I remember seeing their Loth-cat plushies and thinking they were awesome), so if I see anything once it's announced I might drop you a line if possible?

Yeah absolutely, let me know whatever you want as and when. Even while I'm there I'll take some shots of the various merch stands so if there's anything that catches your eye I'll pick it up. And if you change your mind on autographs, but I do think those need to be bought ahead of schedule. They're still announcing guests though.

3 hours ago, Julius said:

whereas, at least now, it's definitely more spread out, and there's so much in the works simultaneously that it almost feels like they'll have a smaller % of things to show in a way?

They're in a bit of a weird spot this year because while there's lots in the pipeline, there doesn't seem to be much that's actually ready for a big blow out. Obi Wan is out the following day, Andor it's definitely time to reveal that properly, but otherwise the films are surely a ways off, Ahsoka hasn't started filming yet (I don't think?), neither has Lando or the Acolyte etc. Still, the main Showcase panel is an hour and a half so plenty to get through you would think (for reference all the panels, including the Ep IX one, were only an hour last year)

3 hours ago, Julius said:

but the chance just seems so slim without a Jedi Master VIP pass, which it feels like you need to be seduced by the allure of the Dark Side for

To be honest, if they hadn't sold out so quickly I probably would have bitten the bullet. 

Spoiler

 

3 hours ago, Julius said:

otherwise I think waiting in line could simply take up too much time which could be spent elsewhere at Celebration?

According to their tweet today, attendance to the major panels (the first ones of each day) is via the lottery system. I'm fine with that, there's no way I was going to camp out overnight for any of them.

And then it sounds like there's a first come first serve online reservation system each morning for a reserved section of seats at all the other panels. Again, fine by me, sounds like there's still be the option to queue if you don't get a spot with that.

3 hours ago, Julius said:

Which YouTubers/Podcasters are you referring to for the combined panel? That sounds like it could be very cool, and honestly maybe more than the hype for new stuff, the allure of Star Wars Celebration has to be just spending time surrounded by other huge Star Wars fans. I'm sure you'll have a great time! 

Thanks, hope so. Star Wars Explained and Force Center Podcast are doing a combined panel on the first day, followed by a meet-up afterwards. The former just seem like really lovely people, been following them for years now, and the latter are excellent for more thoughtful discussion on the franchise. Dunno if you watch or listen to either but they're highly recommended, I think the latter in particular you'd enjoy. 

Just 4 weeks to go!

Edited April 28, 2022 by Ronnie

[Ronnie]

 

The Gallery: The Book of Boba Fett out now! An hour of behind the scenes goodness

[Julius]

5 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

 

The Gallery: The Book of Boba Fett out now! An hour of behind the scenes goodness

We're eating good today  we've also got the Behind the Mac: Skywalker Sound vid:

And another trailer for Obi-Wan at some point today (might be airing first on Kimmel so maybe it'll be early morning?):

Loads of Obi-Wan merch seems to be popping up too...

[Julius]

Speaking of which...

Hnnnnnng, new poster too:

Think the first trailer was better (music, more intriguing shots) but that's usually the way  don't think I'm ready for this! 

Think my general rule of thumb with Star Wars and managing my expectations with the franchise moving forward is going to be going into things hoping for an 8/10, as that's where I would put Rogue One, Revenge of the Sith in my heart - in my critical mind it's swimming in 7's - and probably The Force Awakens? If this show is generally good to great (writing, set pieces, editing, set design, sound design, etc.), delivers on Star Wars music goodness, and has a good to great lightsaber duel (which I don't think we really got in the sequels, though there were cool moments involving lightsabers, the choreography just wasn't there), I'll be over the moon. 

I rewatched Revenge of the Sith when the first trailer for this came out and I think this month I might rewatch all of the films as it's been the longest period in my life now since being introduced to Star Wars where I've gone the longest between viewings for each film. I'm definitely in the mood for it now. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Julius

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Julius said:

and has a good to great lightsaber duel (which I don't think we really got in the sequels, though there were cool moments involving lightsabers, the choreography just wasn't there)

Strongly disagree. I think the lack of excessive choreography was the whole point. Give me the purposeful, strength and stamina-based lightsaber fights of the sequel trilogy (TFA and TROS especially) any day over the excessively choreographed dancing of the prequels. The former felt real, especially given the characters' relative skill level, the latter just felt like a production. To me at least, because again, opinions and all that.  

1 hour ago, Julius said:

Think my general rule of thumb with Star Wars and managing my expectations with the franchise moving forward is going to be going into things hoping for an 8/10

For me it's more about shedding all expectation about how the story will go. The quality will almost certainly be up there so I try and open myself up to wherever the film-makers and show-runners want to take me storyline wise. Obviously it's a bit constrained here because we know how these characters end up in the future, but still.

1 hour ago, Julius said:

Loads of Obi-Wan merch seems to be popping up too...

 I've enjoyed the almost total media blackout of the Mando-verse (I suspect that was 100% down to Favreau), but it's also nice when they go more old school and release merch early and make people wonder how they'll end up being seen in the films etc. Since Disney took over they seem to have alternated between the two approaches as and when. Given the more predictable storyline here, maybe it makes sense to get merch out early.

As for the trailer, cool! Doesn't show much but the look and tone seem to definitely be there. Nice poster too. 

And thanks for the tip re: the Skywalker Sound vid! I'll be getting getting some popcorn sorted later tonight and watching the TBOBF Disney Gallery episode 

Also, custom Xbox One's revealed, because obv:

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Ronnie

[Ronnie]

The latest in a long, long, line of ultra cute Star Wars things?

[Julius]

39 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Strongly disagree. I think the lack of excessive choreography was the whole point. Give me the purposeful, strength and stamina-based lightsaber fights of the sequel trilogy (TFA and TROS especially) any day over the excessively choreographed dancing of the prequels. The former felt real, especially given the characters' relative skill level, the latter just felt like a production. To me at least, because again, opinions and all that.  

In fairness, I thought it was lacking in comparison to the original trilogy, not the prequels, but probably should have made that more clear in my post  it's not really just the choreography of those duels that I have a problem with, but a whole host of things, the main one being that if you take the lightsaber duels in the OT in a vacuum, there's still a story being told -- you see the development of Vader and Luke across the films in their duels. In the sequels? You don't really get that, but it's not helped by the lack of lightsabers clashing in TLJ and Rey's arc kind of being flat, which you can gather from her duels with Ben in TFA and TROS.

Also, to be clear, it's fine that her arc is flat, but the reason you would want to do that is to then do more complex things with Kylo's arc, which they didn't really do 

Re: the prequels, I've always been fine with them being overly choreographed, but I've always had an explanation for that in my head in the same way I did for the issue people have with midichlorians (which is that the entire point of the things is to show the scientific extrapolation of faith and to boil a concept like the Force down into  has repercussions on said faith). My thought process has always been that this is the Jedi Order at the peak of its powers, and that duels in those times - especially the duel with Maul on Naboo in TPM - are basically a chess match and a ritualistic dance rolled in one; the duel on Naboo is, basically, the most highly produced opera. They're predicting and reacting to each other's movements while incorporating their learned and preferred forms of lightsaber combat. 

Can totally appreciate that's not for everyone, though, but it was entrancing as one of the kids who grew up on the prequels 

55 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

For me it's more about shedding all expectation about how the story will go. The quality will almost certainly be up there so I try and open myself up to wherever the film-makers and show-runners want to take me storyline wise. Obviously it's a bit constrained here because we know how these characters end up in the future, but still.

Yeah, I think that's totally fair.

I definitely got caught up in the hype of the sequels and dove in fully into forums and discussed almost every possibility with anyone I could find willing to listen, but the lack of a cohesive vision for the sequels as a whole meant that - and I do firmly believe this - there is a much stronger sequel story out there on forums, and in videos, etc. Doesn't help at all that they had the wrong talent at times telling the story (Chris Terrio...really?), and above all else and maybe most importantly, they were also rushed out thanks to Iger, which I'll never forgive.

I think a sequel trilogy under Lucasfilm as it is now, which is much more willing to pool ideas together and have a back-and-forth with creatives, would be much stronger. In George's absence it absolutely blows my mind that Filoni wasn't part of those initial discussions of what should be done with regards to the story of the sequel trilogy after they threw away George's treatments. 

My ultimate issue with the sequels is that, for me, they are often too derivative (structurally, narratively, and, at times, musically too) of the original trilogy - again, I've said this before, but it feels like they were Star Wars films inspired by Star Wars films, more than they were inspired by the things that inspired Star Wars (which is something Mando nails) - and lack the same purposeful storytelling of the original trilogy and, yes, at times, even the prequel trilogy (which loops back around to lack of planning and so on). I think in the long run, they lack the timelessness of the original trilogy and the ideas - but not the execution - of the prequel trilogy. 

This is all a very long way of me saying, that in the case of the sequels, given where I was in my life (a teenager) and my strong affinity for Star Wars and storytelling, I think it's only natural that I kind of thought about the possibilities a lot - for the first time in my life, I had everyone and their mother talking about Star Wars, and I had the time to talk about it with them! Being older and a bit more mature now I'm looking forward to going back to those films and really coming to terms with my thoughts on them, because as much as I think they're a mess, I think there are also some absolutely masterful moments. Plus, I've never felt the hype for anything like I have The Force Awakens, and I am not kidding when I say that I would wake up in the middle of the night to catch trailers as they dropped during Monday Night Football, would walk to college with my phone in my hand watching the trailer or listening to its music, and so on. That film delivered and I think was a solid opener to a trilogy, and I think it's the strongest of the three.

TFA will always hold a very special place in my heart, as will TLJ, but to a lesser extent. TROS...not so much. 

I've talked before about what I hoped a Kenobi show would be (introspective and almost entirely on his head and on Tatooine), but being older and more mature, once we got the concept art I made peace with the fact that they went in a pretty drastically different direction, and yeah, other than watching the trailer a bunch and guessing what things or shots mean, I'm kind of past predicting it all, and I'm ready to just take it all on as it is.

I think for me, though, it's very difficult to completely shed expectations, even on a first watch. I'm obsessed with storytelling and how stories are told - be it film, TV, games, books, or heck even music - and while I prefer to figure things out like my thoughts and break things down further on repeat watches, sometimes I can't turn off the analytical part of my mind which is picking up on a lot of cues hinting at things, the editing, the framing, etc. That's not to say that I'm doing this all the time (my mind turns off when I'm in a cinema most of the time, and no offence to the MCU, but I don't think about it too hard when I'm watching those films). 

Case in point though: I watched an anime film the other day called Paprika - which is wild and absolutely amazing, would highly recommend - and while the story, writing, and characters were all great, most of the time my jaw was on the floor just admiring the editing and framing of the film. That's just how I am sometimes  other times I'm going "well damn this writing is gooooooood", or in the case of watching Christopher Nolan films at home, "WHO THE HELL SOUND MIXED THIS CRAP?!" 

18 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

The latest in a long, long, line of ultra cute Star Wars things?

Looks like an astromech head met a V-Wing and a Buzzdroid in an alley, I dig it! 

Kind of reminds me of R4 a little bit. Would love something at some point to make fun of Obi-Wan completely forgetting about his trusty prequel companion 

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Julius said:

In fairness, I thought it was lacking in comparison to the original trilogy, not the prequels, but probably should have made that more clear in my post 

Oops sorry, you mentioned choreography and I immediately thought of the prequels for some reason. I guess the originals are more of a middle ground between the two, though again the training that Obi-Wan, Vader, Luke (?) had was greater than Rey and definitely Fin, if not Kylo Ren, so that would make sense. I love how Fin doesn't know what he's doing with the saber in TFA, it felt real, I love how Rey got knackered using it in TROS after climbing through the death star wreckage, again it felt real and relatable. Within the context of those films, I think that here and now style of story-telling worked.

1 hour ago, Julius said:

if you take the lightsaber duels in the OT in a vacuum, there's still a story being told -- you see the development of Vader and Luke across the films in their duels. In the sequels? You don't really get that, but it's not helped by the lack of lightsabers clashing in TLJ and Rey's arc kind of being flat, which you can gather from her duels with Ben in TFA and TROS.

I'd probably try countering that by saying that just because one set of films does something, in this case tells a story based on lightsaber battles, doesn't mean another set of films has to. Not sure it's fair to compare them like that. The OT does things the ST doesn't and the ST does things the OT doesn't.

My opinion again, but I also don't think Rey's arc is flat at all. She starts off in TFA desperately seeking to belong somewhere, be with someone, a family. "The belonging you seek is not behind you, but ahead" as Maz says. In TLJ, she seeks that belonging and connection with Kylo Ren until he turns on her and manipulates her saying that she has no one, she doesn't belong anywhere, then in TROS, her true upbringing comes to bear and she turns her back on what came behind her, and chooses found family instead, "be with me", Rey Skywalker etc, found family being one of the great staples of Star Wars story-telling. 

Also have to disagree Kylo doesn't go anywhere. Probably worth bearing in mind that his arc was probably impacted a fair bit by Carrie's passing, it's a miracle they managed to weave her in at all. The part where she becomes one with the force right after her son does in TROS brings a tear to my eye every time. 

1 hour ago, Julius said:

Re: the prequels, I've always been fine with them being overly choreographed, but I've always had an explanation for that in my head in the same way I did for the issue people have with midichlorians (which is that the entire point of the things is to show the scientific extrapolation of faith and to boil a concept like the Force down into  has repercussions on said faith). My thought process has always been that this is the Jedi Order at the peak of its powers, and that duels in those times - especially the duel with Maul on Naboo in TPM - are basically a chess match and a ritualistic dance rolled in one; the duel on Naboo is, basically, the most highly produced opera. They're predicting and reacting to each other's movements while incorporating their learned and preferred forms of lightsaber combat. 

Yeah that totally makes sense, it comes down to how much training they've all had too etc

2 hours ago, Julius said:

Can totally appreciate that's not for everyone, though, but it was entrancing as one of the kids who grew up on the prequels 

Hey I enjoyed the one in The Phantom Menace! I was very much entertained by it. It was the 5 hour long duel in ROTS that I found a bit silly and tedious.

2 hours ago, Julius said:

I think a sequel trilogy under Lucasfilm as it is now, which is much more willing to pool ideas together and have a back-and-forth with creatives, would be much stronger. In George's absence it absolutely blows my mind that Filoni wasn't part of those initial discussions of what should be done with regards to the story of the sequel trilogy after they threw away George's treatments. 

Much as I adore the sequel trilogy I definitely agree. It kind of reminds me of the MCU and how that took a while to really become watertight and top quality, same thing here. A bit of patience might have been smart, but obv you want to launch with a bang and TFA certainly delivered that at the time. 

2 hours ago, Julius said:

This is all a very long way of me saying, that in the case of the sequels, given where I was in my life (a teenager) and my strong affinity for Star Wars and storytelling, I think it's only natural that I kind of thought about the possibilities a lot - for the first time in my life, I had everyone and their mother talking about Star Wars, and I had the time to talk about it with them! Being older and a bit more mature now I'm looking forward to going back to those films and really coming to terms with my thoughts on them, because as much as I think they're a mess, I think there are also some absolutely masterful moments. Plus, I've never felt the hype for anything like I have The Force Awakens, and I am not kidding when I say that I would wake up in the middle of the night to catch trailers as they dropped during Monday Night Football, would walk to college with my phone in my hand watching the trailer or listening to its music, and so on. That film delivered and I think was a solid opener to a trilogy, and I think it's the strongest of the three.

Fair enough, I think people on either side of the argument about the sequels can agree there are some amazing moments in all three of them. Hell I put on The Last Jedi to watch a quick scene and suddenly an hour has passed. I will say I think the trailers for those films were masterfully made, all three of them. The Obi Wan trailer from today for instance doesn't even compare. Today's one was fine, and I'm sure the series itself will be good, but nothing will get my Star Wars heart racing more than 7 8 and 9 hype. Well, apart from Rebels tbf.

2 hours ago, Julius said:

TFA will always hold a very special place in my heart, as will TLJ, but to a lesser extent. TROS...not so much. 

I've actually really come around on TROS from subsequent rewatches. I never had a problem with the storyline, and it was always full of amazing moments, I just found the pacing, in the first half especially to be waaaay too much. But when you sit and watch individual moments I absolutely love it. From the moment where Han appears and Ben turns back to the light to the end, *chef's kiss*. The quiet moment where the camera is close up on Rey and Kylo and their force connection, and Rey giving the most subtle of nods is one of my fav Star Wars moments. 

2 hours ago, Julius said:

I've talked before about what I hoped a Kenobi show would be (introspective and almost entirely on his head and on Tatooine), but being older and more mature, once we got the concept art I made peace with the fact that they went in a pretty drastically different direction, and yeah, other than watching the trailer a bunch and guessing what things or shots mean, I'm kind of past predicting it all, and I'm ready to just take it all on as it is.

Nice one that's a good way of looking at it. I'm sure the story will show a good reason for him to leave, maybe throw the inquisitors off the scent or something. 

3 hours ago, Julius said:

I think for me, though, it's very difficult to completely shed expectations, even on a first watch. I'm obsessed with storytelling and how stories are told - be it film, TV, games, books, or heck even music - and while I prefer to figure things out like my thoughts and break things down further on repeat watches, sometimes I can't turn off the analytical part of my mind which is picking up on a lot of cues hinting at things, the editing, the framing, etc. That's not to say that I'm doing this all the time (my mind turns off when I'm in a cinema most of the time, and no offence to the MCU, but I don't think about it too hard when I'm watching those films). 

Oh for sure. It's definitely not easy. I guess the reality is more a case of going in expecting a storyline, but also telling myself that it's ok when what actually happens on screen doesn't match those expectations. And I very much enjoy your analytical eye, especially with things like the sound design and soundtrack, aspects which I'm pretty clueless on. 

Sorry if I came across as overly argumentative, it's just fun to talk Star Wars!

[Julius]

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Oops sorry, you mentioned choreography and I immediately thought of the prequels for some reason. I guess the originals are more of a middle ground between the two, though again the training that Obi-Wan, Vader, Luke (?) had was greater than Rey and definitely Fin, if not Kylo Ren, so that would make sense. I love how Fin doesn't know what he's doing with the saber in TFA, it felt real, I love how Rey got knackered using it in TROS after climbing through the death star wreckage, again it felt real and relatable. Within the context of those films, I think that here and now style of story-telling worked. 

Haha no worries, as soon as I started reading your response I knew I should have been a bit more clear and can definitely see why you might have thought I was talking about the prequels  and while I generally though the lightsaber duels in the sequels were lacking by comparison, I don't disagree with some of your points, and I think it made sense to go back to the heft and reality of some of the original trilogy duel moments with the sequels like they did. My favourite lightsaber duel moment in the sequels might be when Rey is backed against a corner, like an animal that's been hunted, but then becomes the hunter: the way that she's almost circling Kylo and toying with him once she gains confidence and feels like she's gaining the upper hand might be one of my favourite Daisy Ridley acting moments in the sequel trilogy. 

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I'd probably try countering that by saying that just because one set of films does something, in this case tells a story based on lightsaber battles, doesn't mean another set of films has to. Not sure it's fair to compare them like that. The OT does things the ST doesn't and the ST does things the OT doesn't.

My opinion again, but I also don't think Rey's arc is flat at all. She starts off in TFA desperately seeking to belong somewhere, be with someone, a family. "The belonging you seek is not behind you, but ahead" as Maz says. In TLJ, she seeks that belonging and connection with Kylo Ren until he turns on her and manipulates her saying that she has no one, she doesn't belong anywhere, then in TROS, her true upbringing comes to bear and she turns her back on what came behind her, and chooses found family instead, "be with me", Rey Skywalker etc, found family being one of the great staples of Star Wars story-telling. 

I think for me it's not so much that the story is based on the lightsaber duels, but that it's just so informative about the relationship between the characters duelling without having to say much if anything.

Luke's overconfidence in TESB against Vader after being warned by Yoda that he's being an idiot and that it's a trap is both informed by the story up to that point and is clear in how he duels; counter to that, in ROTJ Luke acts like he has everything under control through much of the film (the plan to rescue Han at the start of the film and then the plan to bring his father back to the light) and yet in the end is easily toyed with and manipulated into flying off the handle, beating down his father to the point of submission, and giving into the darkness that's inherently (and unfortunately) human -- his only true moment of maturity in the entire duel is arguably the decision to throw away the lightsaber at the end. 

You're right though, they both have things that they do that the others don't, I just think for me for a lightsaber duel to be more meaningful that there has to be a bit more thought behind it from a storytelling perspective than "well, I guess they duel now?". I don't have much of a problem with Obi-Wan vs Anakin on Mustafar being as long as it is because there's something at stake and it makes sense why the fight is so long and so grueling at times, but personally in terms of storytelling I think the best in the films post-OT is that duel on Naboo, there's just so much more going on from a narrative perspective - the title of the music used literally stating that the fate of the galaxy and this young boy, believe to be the Chosen One, is what is at stake! - that I thought was lacking a bit in the sequels. 

I guess the way I'd put it is that I think they lack the subtlety and depth of some of the other duels in that way: the sequels are very overt in what they are trying to say pretty much all of the time, and that carries over to their duels. I don't think there's a problem with that, and I don't think that's the case all of the time (again: Rey going from hunted to hunter), and I don't think there's a problem with like that at all, I just personally love when a scene or a duel has more going on than meets the eye. 

Total aside: I remember when Star Wars Oxygen covered Revenge of the Sith, and David Collins was talking about how some pompous art connoisseur or whatever basically said Revenge of the Sith's final duel is one of the greatest pieces of modern art ever made. And I mean, if you think about it, while I wouldn't go that far with it, she has a point: everything from the combination of miniatures, to CG, to the long and choreographed duel, to the fact that these two brothers are practically fighting in hell...I can totally see why a pompous art connoisseur might feel that way.

Re: Rey having a flat character arc, all of your points are ones I've recognised and thought about, I think my stumbling block with her personally is that while her arc tries to be one of identity, that's a lot of where her challenges lie. Thinking about it I guess she is a cool inverse of Luke (stuck in her past where he was always stuck in the future, very powerful whereas Luke needs to learn a whole lot), but it feels flat to me in that while she does make progress with her identity, she doesn't really make too many wrong decisions regarding her identity (at times, like in TLJ, it seems like she's about to...and then doesn't). It has admittedly been a while since I've seen the sequels though, so once I rewatch them - and especially given the gap - I'm sure I'll have a better idea of where I stand. And to be clear I am a big fan of her issue with identity, I just think it needed to be challenged more and for her to make wrong decisions around it more to push it further -- for me, at least. 

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Also have to disagree Kylo doesn't go anywhere. Probably worth bearing in mind that his arc was probably impacted a fair bit by Carrie's passing, it's a miracle they managed to weave her in at all. The part where she becomes one with the force right after her son does in TROS brings a tear to my every time. 

It's not that he doesn't go anywhere, but flat arc or not, I think Rey's arc at best is pretty simple and overt, which I think gives a greater space for more complex work with Kylo in doing something we haven't really seen before. He's my favourite part of the sequels by a long shot - because, unfortunately, he's the character I identify most with in the entire saga; same goes for Zuko in The Last Airbender - I just think they needed to do anything with him but have him be the redeemed martyr like Vader, as I think it just retreads over some threads we've already seen before in the Saga about redemption, where something new and more important could be told to the audience: that there are repercussions for your actions, even if in the end you do make the right choice (for me, this would have been him surviving but getting a melancholic rather than a happy ending and being exiled). 

Carrie's passing definitely had an impact, though, you're right. 

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Much as I adore the sequel trilogy I definitely agree. It kind of reminds me of the MCU and how that took a while to really become watertight and top quality, same thing here. A bit of patience might have been smart, but obv you want to launch with a bang and TFA certainly delivered that at the time. 

Yeah, absolutely, and given the MCU's success and that it was acquired and put under the Disney banner, you'd think they would have known better. That's the thing for me with the sequels that's different to how I see it when compared to the prequels: with the prequels, I see great ideas with poorly executed scenes, whereas with the sequels, I see great scenes well executed but lacking an overarching purpose or idea. Kind of makes it funny that they're either side of the original trilogy, which most in the community would agree is the most consistent and achieves a balance somewhere between the two 

I actually think The Force Awakens being as rock solid as it was is what didn't help and only set TLJ and TROS up for further backlash, in that it was rushed out and not only were they handsomely rewarded financially despite that, playing it safe got everyone going "Hell yes, Star Wars is BACK". I really enjoy moments of both, but in TLJ's case, I can totally see why some people got whiplash as we went from "Here you go, Star Wars is back!" to the most purposefully subversive film in the Saga. TROS for me just landed flat at the time as I think ROTS did a better job of feeling like a true finale to the series, and it was the sourest of notes for them to wrap the Saga up on from my perspective. 

I'm really excited to rewatch The Force Awakens, certain scenes of The Last Jedi, and bits and pieces of The Rise of Skywalker. I'm curious to see how my perspective has changed, if it has at all. 

Actually, might as well post this for posterity now, this is how I'd rank the films having been away from them for so long: 

No particular order in those lines by the way I'll post an updated one after I've rewatched them, but I'm curious how you would rank them? (TierMaker here)

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I will say I think the trailers for those films were masterfully made, all three of them. The Obi Wan trailer from today for instance doesn't even compare. Today's one was fine, and I'm sure the series itself will be good, but nothing will get my Star Wars heart racing more than 7 8 and 9 hype. Well, apart from Rebels tbf.

Absolutely, I think the final official trailer for The Force Awakens might be my favourite movie trailer ever. I watched it hundreds of times, I watched it on every device imaginable to see it in different ways...gah, while the second teaser trailer dropped during Celebration that year was definitely magical, nothing will ever get me more than:

Poe screams into a fade of Starkiller Base firing it's laser

Han Solo and the Princess kicks in, the first bit of Stat Wars music in the trailer, as we get sweeping shots of the Jakku chase

"There were stories about what happened..."

"It's true..."

Cut to the gang with Han in the Falcon

...all of it"

T H I S  C H R I S T M A S

Percussion slamming down with the nostalgia of a thousand suns in the Force theme timed with flashes of the Knights of Ren

Just...hnnnnnng, just watching it now still gets me all these years later -- still remember YouTube crashing on me for a split second after it went up! The others are fantastic too, but man, those 20-30 seconds of that trailer get me. Also, shout out to the international trailers for TFA, which were also stupidly excellent. 

Gah, okay, I'm watching the trailers again before I hop into these films, it's definitely getting me hyped 

And yeah, for me I thought today's trailer was fine, but it was kind of in line with the other Disney+ trailers so far (bar maybe The Clone Wars S7 for me) where they've all only really been fine. Well, that and the first trailer probably being my favourite outside of the sequels, just for the shots used and the music specifically (I said I'd cry if we got Duel of the Fates or Battle of the Heroes, and we got both!). 

I don't really know what could get me as hyped as that in terms of new original stuff from Star Wars, though, when it comes to trailers? Maybe when they eventually tackle the Old Republic stuff? 

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I've actually really come around on TROS from subsequent rewatches. I never had a problem with the storyline, and it was always full of amazing moments, I just found the pacing, in the first half especially to be waaaay too much. But when you sit and watch individual moments I absolutely love it. From the moment where Han appears and Ben turns back to the light to the end, *chef's kiss*. The quiet moment where the camera is close up on Rey and Kylo and their force connection, and Rey giving the most subtle of nods is one of my fav Star Wars moments. 

Yeah, this is why I'm really curious about where I'll stand on it, and it's the soundtrack I've dug into the least too (I listened to TFA's and TLJ's hundreds of times) so I'm looking forward to really giving it a proper listen. I thought the story was about as basic and macguffin-y as it could be in my only watches so far back when it released, and poorly executed on top of that, and on top of that, again, just felt like it didn't go as far as it could have (in fairness, I think the MCU ending the Infinity Saga as strongly as it did with Endgame that same year definitely made so much of TROS feel lackluster by comparison). And too many lines made me cringe too -- talking about Endgame, "I am all the Jedi" after having "And I...am...Iron Man" just...gah. It's very frustrating! 

And yet the pacing was absolutely the worst part. I think Rogue One has pretty much the same problem in its first 5-10 minutes, but it then calms down, whereas to quote myself about TROS back after my first watch:

On 19/12/2019 at 2:14 PM, Julius said:

First things first, and what had me holding my head in my hands just twenty minutes or so into this film: the pacing of this film is absolutely atrocious. Opening crawl, trumpets piercing the heavens, yada, yada, yada, then we get Kylo destroying some random alien dudes and finding the Sith wayfinder; travelling to and landing on Exegol, exchange with The Emperor; let's watch Rey run through her training routine, "oh no Kylo got to Exegol and The Emperor is back for real!" followed by "I know the way - let's go to Pasaana!" a few seconds later; and then finally we're on Pasaana, before everything goes down there. And that's just the planets, forgetting other key locations such as ship interiors. 

Now that I think about it, I can't recall many of the traditional transition wipes being used (if any at all?) – if they were, I'm forgetting because the film kept hard cutting from one place to another in a way that it felt like I was slamming my head from one wall to another. Lightspeed skipping is a concept that we're introduced to quite early on in this film before it never returns in any real meaningful way, and that's how I'd best describe the pacing of the film: skip from one beat to the next with a bunch of hard cuts. I can't recall a single scene in this film being given time to breathe. It's like this film was in a rush to get to the ending, and spill out all of its answers on the way there. 

I don't think it would be hyperbole to suggest that this has the worst pacing of any Star Wars film to date. I recall A New Hope being described on multiple occasions as being saved in the edit – I'd argue that The Rise of Skywalker was destroyed in it. 

Man, reading back through that post, while for now I still agree with a lot of it, I was absolutely brutal. This killed me: 

Quote

This film is a fucking mess.

Good God, you can really tell that Oscar-winning screenwriter Chris Terrio (Batman vs Superman, Justice League) had a hand in this script and that JJ has never had to wrap a story up in his life. 

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Sorry if I came across as overly argumentative, it's just fun to talk Star Wars!

Not in the slightest! It's always fun to talk Star Wars with you, and more important than I think "agree to disagree" can sometimes be - not just in Star Wars, but in day-to-day life - I think any opportunity to learn from others with different perspectives is both challenging (in that you have to come to terms that maybe you're wrong about something or trying to understand someone else's opinions) and rewarding (see: last set of brackets ). 

So long as no-one is getting hurt by those perspectives (in which case shut them down faster than the Death Star eviscerated Alderaan), I think people miss out on a whole lot of the human experience by not seeking those other perspectives out. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Julius

[Ronnie]

9 hours ago, Julius said:

My favourite lightsaber duel moment in the sequels might be when Rey is backed against a corner, like an animal that's been hunted, but then becomes the hunter: the way that she's almost circling Kylo and toying with him once she gains confidence and feels like she's gaining the upper hand might be one of my favourite Daisy Ridley acting moments in the sequel trilogy. 

Yeah that was cool, I loved the sustained close up on her face, fully lit from the lightsabers flashing, as the force theme starts to play. The Praetorian guard fight in TLJ was excellent I thought too, though tbf that's not really saber on saber. Still a great set-piece as the room around them burns.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

Luke's overconfidence in TESB against Vader after being warned by Yoda that he's being an idiot and that it's a trap is both informed by the story up to that point and is clear in how he duels; counter to that, in ROTJ Luke acts like he has everything under control through much of the film (the plan to rescue Han at the start of the film and then the plan to bring his father back to the light) and yet in the end is easily toyed with and manipulated into flying off the handle, beating down his father to the point of submission, and giving into the darkness that's inherently (and unfortunately) human -- his only true moment of maturity in the entire duel is arguably the decision to throw away the lightsaber at the end. 

Yeah absolutely, it's great stuff. And as an aside, i'd forgotten Luke had thrown his lightsaber away once before haha.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

but personally in terms of storytelling I think the best in the films post-OT is that duel on Naboo, there's just so much more going on from a narrative perspective - the title of the music used literally stating that the fate of the galaxy and this young boy, believe to be the Chosen One, is what is at stake! - that I thought was lacking a bit in the sequels. 

Agree, that's my favourite one too, and I'll happily watch it (and TPM itself) plenty of times, but I do think that within the context of the film itself, that's a perfect example of 'I guess we duel now', and you have to pull yourself out of the film to understand its meaning, based on what we knows happens next, if that makes sense? Still a cool fight though.

But equally, Maul's rematch with Kenobi in Rebels is perfect too, completely different, very short but it fits the story-telling.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

Total aside: I remember when Star Wars Oxygen covered Revenge of the Sith, and David Collins was talking about how some pompous art connoisseur or whatever basically said Revenge of the Sith's final duel is one of the greatest pieces of modern art ever made. And I mean, if you think about it, while I wouldn't go that far with it, she has a point: everything from the combination of miniatures, to CG, to the long and choreographed duel, to the fact that these two brothers are practically fighting in hell...I can totally see why a pompous art connoisseur might feel that way.

It definitely has a lot going on, and at the time I'm sure it must have looked absolutely incredible. I dunno, I just really struggle with that film so it's hard for me to have too much praise about it. The gif of the pair of them twirling their sabers keeps playing in my mind lol. But I know you love Ep 3 and that's awesome. 

9 hours ago, Julius said:

Re: Rey having a flat character arc, all of your points are ones I've recognised and thought about, I think my stumbling block with her personally is that while her arc tries to be one of identity, that's a lot of where her challenges lie. Thinking about it I guess she is a cool inverse of Luke (stuck in her past where he was always stuck in the future, very powerful whereas Luke needs to learn a whole lot), but it feels flat to me in that while she does make progress with her identity, she doesn't really make too many wrong decisions regarding her identity (at times, like in TLJ, it seems like she's about to...and then doesn't). It has admittedly been a while since I've seen the sequels though, so once I rewatch them - and especially given the gap - I'm sure I'll have a better idea of where I stand. And to be clear I am a big fan of her issue with identity, I just think it needed to be challenged more and for her to make wrong decisions around it more to push it further -- for me, at least. 

That's fair enough, she could have been challenged more. Though her killing Kylo Ren and fleeing to Ahch-To for good was a bit of a failing. I wonder if they were wary of making her stumble because of the whole "female protagonist" thing, they didn't want to show her fail because it was a big deal at the time that a Star Wars lead was a woman etc.

It's funny people go on about how TROS U-turned TLJ and while it does in some cases there's also a ton of connections. Luke's shock at how Rey "went straight to the dark" being one.

It's good that you've put some time between re-watching them, I hope when you do rewatch them your appreciation goes up, even if you liked 7 and 8 well enough already. My appreciation for 9 has gone up tons.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

It's not that he doesn't go anywhere, but flat arc or not, I think Rey's arc at best is pretty simple and overt, which I think gives a greater space for more complex work with Kylo in doing something we haven't really seen before. He's my favourite part of the sequels by a long shot - because, unfortunately, he's the character I identify most with in the entire saga; same goes for Zuko in The Last Airbender - I just think they needed to do anything with him but have him be the redeemed martyr like Vader, as I think it just retreads over some threads we've already seen before in the Saga about redemption, where something new and more important could be told to the audience: that there are repercussions for your actions, even if in the end you do make the right choice (for me, this would have been him surviving but getting a melancholic rather than a happy ending and being exiled). 

Ah right, I get what you mean now. Redemption is obviously a big part of Star Wars so you could see that coming a mile off, and rightly so, but yeah having him survive would have been cool, and different. It also would have potentially meant more Ben Solo in the future, which I'm all here for, every scene of his was great, brief as they were.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

with the prequels, I see great ideas with poorly executed scenes, whereas with the sequels, I see great scenes well executed but lacking an overarching purpose or idea. Kind of makes it funny that they're either side of the original trilogy, which most in the community would agree is the most consistent and achieves a balance somewhere between the two 

100%. I've been saying the same. Prequels had a great overall story, executed poorly. Sequels had a lacklustre overall story, executed really well. I'm not saying everything needs to be planned out ahead of time because you need some degree of creative freedom (Vader was never meant to be Luke's father in ANH, Leia was never meant to be Luke's sister in TESB), but I do think they've learned their lesson there, the hard way. The High Republic, whilst smaller in scale obviously, has been planned out from the beginning, they know exactly how the various major story beats will go through the three Phases.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

I'm really excited to rewatch The Force Awakens, certain scenes of The Last Jedi, and bits and pieces of The Rise of Skywalker. I'm curious to see how my perspective has changed, if it has at all. 

I'm very interested too, so please get your thoughts down. It'll be keen to hear if you think they work well together. People said TLJ U-turned TFA but I just don't see it. For me it developed the story, just as TESB developed ANH and introduced new things.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

Actually, might as well post this for posterity now, this is how I'd rank the films having been away from them for so long: 

Interesting! Here's mine, very different to yours haha. I toyed with putting Solo in the S rank, but that'd probably go a bit far. To be honest though for me the S and A ranked films are a hair's length away from each other.

Also, even in thumbnail form, that TLJ poster is still stunning.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

Poe screams into a fade of Starkiller Base firing it's laser

Han Solo and the Princess kicks in, the first bit of Stat Wars music in the trailer, as we get sweeping shots of the Jakku chase

"There were stories about what happened..."

"It's true..."

Cut to the gang with Han in the Falcon

...all of it"

T H I S  C H R I S T M A S

Percussion slamming down with the nostalgia of a thousand suns in the Force theme timed with flashes of the Knights of Ren

Fantastic. Chills.

Amazing music too, that's another trait of the sequel trailers, incredible music and beautiful arrangements of classic tracks.

I will say the TFA trailer showed A LOT, whereas now they tend to keep a lot of things under wrap with the Disney+ shows so maybe that's why they don't really hit as hard. I remember they released a Mando season 2 recap trailer thing midway through the show's run during that Investor Day, and it showed spoilery footage from the first 6 episodes, and it was amazing. 

I hadn't seen those international trailers, so thanks for sharing! Man, I just want to watch TFA again now haha.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

And yeah, for me I thought today's trailer was fine, but it was kind of in line with the other Disney+ trailers so far (bar maybe The Clone Wars S7 for me) where they've all only really been fine.

I think it's the spoiler reasons I mentioned above, and also the smaller scale of the Disney+ shows probably = a more low key trailer. I did watch the very first Mando S2 trailer a ton though but that's much more quiet than the epic-ness of the sequel ones, which basically were just there to sell tickets. Everyone and their dog were going to tune into Mando S2 and definitely Kenobi, so they don't need to hit as hard and show much. 

9 hours ago, Julius said:

I don't really know what could get me as hyped as that in terms of new original stuff from Star Wars, though, when it comes to trailers? Maybe when they eventually tackle the Old Republic stuff? 

For me, as a certified spaceship/space battle/pilot nerd it's all about Rogue Squadron. I hope that film is still on track, they doubled down a couple of weeks ago but we'll see. If Patty Jenkins can get the action like Rogue One or the TLJ dreadnought run, yes fucking please. 

I do think they need to come back with more of a bang though so Old Republic would make a lot more sense to return to cinemas with. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

and it's the soundtrack I've dug into the least too (I listened to TFA's and TLJ's hundreds of times) so I'm looking forward to really giving it a proper listen.

The TROS soundtrack seems to be missing a bit. One of my favourite bits from the film is when Poe and Finn rally the troops before the Falcon flies in one direction while the starfighters fly in the other, all to the incredible sound of March of the Resistance (top tier SW tune that, for me), but it's nowhere to be seen on the soundtrack, kind of weird.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

And too many lines made me cringe too -- talking about Endgame, "I am all the Jedi" after having "And I...am...Iron Man" just...gah. It's very frustrating! 

I quite liked Rey's line, it pushed the Jedi narrative forward instead of being stuck to what came before. What a strange coincidence though, you have to imagine it was done independently of Avengers.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

I think Rogue One has pretty much the same problem in its first 5-10 minutes

As someone who timed those opening 10 minutes down to the second, I agree  Much as I enjoyed Gareth Edwards' direction a lot on that film, the choice to have location cards in the opening bits, and then not later on is really jarring to my OCD brain lol.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

I was absolutely brutal

There is definitely a tight, well paced film in there, but it needed a lot more time for editing and huge chunks to be removed (rescuing Chewie served no purpose), which unfortunately they didn't get. Covid struck a couple of months later, so maybe Disney is fine with getting what they did out the door when they did!

9 hours ago, Julius said:

Not in the slightest! It's always fun to talk Star Wars with you, and more important than I think "agree to disagree" can sometimes be - not just in Star Wars, but in day-to-day life - I think any opportunity to learn from others with different perspectives is both challenging (in that you have to come to terms that maybe you're wrong about something or trying to understand someone else's opinions) and rewarding (see: last set of brackets ). 

So long as no-one is getting hurt by those perspectives (in which case shut them down faster than the Death Star eviscerated Alderaan), I think people miss out on a whole lot of the human experience by not seeking those other perspectives out. 

I couldn't possibly add to that  well said.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Ronnie