The Star Wars Thread

[Julius]

32 minutes ago, Cube said:

I didn't think that those characters were worth their own show, but seeing what happens to clones after order 66 does seem interesting.

Yeah, I agree, though I think they're preferable to the other characters I think they were potentially lining up for the same treatment from S7. Still, it always hurt that they went with a new set of clone commandos over the return of Delta Squad.

But hey, at least Filoni and Lucas made them canon. To some extent. 

What I wouldn't give for a new Republic Commando game. 

[Ronnie]

3 hours ago, Julius said:

My bad! Think I phrased it weirdly, so just to clarify, when I said "both", I was actually referring to the Rebels sequel and Mando S2, not Rebels sequel and Bad Batch. 

Yeah, I genuinely don't think they've had this in the works too long. In fact, the Bad Batch arc we get in S7 of The Clone Wars is just a fully realised version of a rigged version with basic models which they showed off at SWC 2015. Not to take anything away from the production of the show (looks great, I'm sure some lines were re-recorded too), but I do feel like polishing the show for release had Dave Filoni tossing around ideas for characters from the Bad Batch arc and another arc from the final season, and I'm guessing this one got the green light because it was much better received (and is honestly the more interesting direction to take it in). 

I'm expecting Bad Batch to a somewhat limited run show, maybe two arcs at maximum, at least the first time around. Think they'll then go on to realising some of the other planned arcs from TCW on an almost annual basis - it's such an easy way to bring people back to Disney+ for a potentially otherwise quiet month. 

I'd guess this will be Spring/Summer 2021, and the Rebels sequel will be Autumn/Winter 2021.

For some reason I'm getting the impression this is a bigger scale series than you're suggesting, akin to a TCW or Rebels, but maybe it's just a 2 season thing like Resistance. Seems quite limited in scope for anything much longer, not that I know who these characters actually are though, yet. 

 

3 hours ago, Julius said:

Do you think Mando S2 will get delayed? I know filming finished fine but post-production on a project like this, even with people working from home, just seems like it could potentially not go as smoothly as they'd want.

Wouldn't be too surprised if it were to release a bit closer to the end of the year in all honesty. 

I never really considered it getting delayed to be honest, Bob Iger said in May it wasn't going to be pushed, but who knows. Much as I quite enjoyed TROS I think it could have done with a delay till the following year tbh, and so if Mando season 2 needs a couple extra months or whatever, I hope they take it. The trouble is it feels like they've planned the timing of all these properties so they don't eat into each other. Mando till the new year, then straight into the High Republic for a few months, then potentially this Bad Batch show etc... so maybe they're reluctant to shift things around too much.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Ronnie

[Julius]

35 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

For some reason I'm getting the impression this is a bigger scale series than you're suggesting, akin to a TCW or Rebels, but maybe it's just a 2 season thing like Resistance. Seems quite limited in scope for anything much longer, not that I know who these characters actually are though, yet. 

Yeah, I really don't think it will be 4 seasons plus like Rebels and TCW were, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

It's essentially a spin-off sequel series to The Clone Wars which will follow characters introduced in the final season, and while I can't wait to see how it unfolds (Matt Michnovetz has written some episodes for Bad Batch, and worked on both the Umbara and Citadel arcs of TCW, for former is one of my favourite arcs in the show, and is almost universally loved by fans for how well it writes clone troopers, so I'm all in), the utilisation of the same font as TCW for its branding (weird thing to point out I know, but in terms of branding alone it's very clearly positioning itself as a TCW spin-off more than anything else) and the fact this is focusing on the Bad Batch means that yeah, at best, unless it blows up in completely unexpected ways, I think this will be a typically long two season show at best, with potentially even shorter seasons than its predecessors. 

It's just a gut instinct, most of which is based on the info they've shared with us today and how they've treated the animated shows in the past. Realistically, I would guess that it's only been signed off for this first season, and how it's received will help dictate if they're going to go ahead with a second season. Making the seasons shorter to be reactive to that makes the most sense to me. 

I don't think it will take the role of their main series, though. I think we're about to see Lucasfilm Animation undertake two (potentially three?) major projects concurrently for the first time, and I think the Rebels sequel will very firmly be the core focus of theirs. What happens around that, with shows here and there like Bad Batch to allow them to tell other stories, I think will be much more flexible. 

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I never really considered it getting delayed to be honest, Bob Iger said in May it wasn't going to be pushed, but who knows. Much as I quite enjoyed TROS I think it could have done with a delay till the following year tbh, and so if Mando season 2 needs a couple extra months or whatever, I hope they take it. The trouble is it feels like they've planned the timing of all these properties so they don't eat into each other. Mando till the new year, then straight into the High Republic for a few months, then potentially this Bad Batch show etc... so maybe they're reluctant to shift things around too much.

Yeah, TROS I think was kind of selfishly rushed out the door by Iger for him to cap off his Disney tenure with the strongest year imaginable: the culmination of Star Wars and the MCU. It really could have done with more time. He and Disney were the ones who didn't give The Force Awakens the extra time that film might have needed too (as much as I enjoyed it, I think the concept art makes it very clear that they had many more original ideas which were scrapped in favour of mirroring A New Hope). 

And like you said, I think they're trying to line things up so that they have a continuous slate of projects to offer on Disney+, but I feel like it's their inflexibility which might have caused them issues before, so if they do need more time I hope they don't hesitate in making the decision to delay things a couple of months as and when it's needed. 

[Ronnie]

Not a weird thing to point out at all re: the font and branding, I thought the exact same thing. I was a bit disappointed by the announcement from a selfish point of view as it's not really something I'm interested in but now I'm pretty hopeful that like you say it might be smaller scale (unless it proves a huge hit obviously).

47 minutes ago, Julius said:

Yeah, TROS I think was kind of selfishly rushed out the door by Iger for him to cap off his Disney tenure with the strongest year imaginable: the culmination of Star Wars and the MCU. It really could have done with more time. He and Disney were the ones who didn't give The Force Awakens the extra time that film might have needed too (as much as I enjoyed it, I think the concept art makes it very clear that they had many more original ideas which were scrapped in favour of mirroring A New Hope).

With Mandalorian I feel like everything is in place for season 2, it's just the post production work that needs sorting, whereas TROS needed more time from a story and editing point of view, things that you can't really rush. I wonder if the previous negative publicity from the Solo course correction, Rogue One reshoots, Benioff and Weiss departures and Ep IX director change, Iger/Lucasfilm were hesitant to delay TROS. At the end of the day though, people will throw abuse at Kathleen Kennedy when to me all those disruptions just prove they want to get things right, and not put out a project Lucasfilm don't believe in. Maybe they could do with easing up a little though, and perhaps Taika Waititi's hiring is a sign they're doing just that.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ronnie

[Julius]

Disney has an earnings call this coming Tuesday. Would not surprise me in the slightest if we see some more official news, or even trailers, drop in the next seven days. 

Fingers crossed.

Mando S2 is still scheduled for October as it stands, and considering that S1 dropped in November and had its first trailer at the end of August, if the marketing timeline is going to be similar, we should see a trailer in the next week or two at the latest. 

And then there's the Rebels sequel. Whenever we get news for that, whether it be next week or next year, I'm sure I'll be over the moon. 

Exciting as announcements for new shows and films are, they've got more than enough announced right now. It's time that we start seeing how far along things are, even if release windows are still going to be nebulous. I mean, I know production and release has been delayed for it, but we haven't heard anything new about Rian's project since The Last Jedi was released, other than that it's still in the works. 

[Will]

4 hours ago, Julius said:

I know production and release has been delayed for it, but we haven't heard anything new about Rian's project since The Last Jedi was released, other than that it's still in the works. 

I’d had it in my head that his films were cancelled rather than delayed. Guess it was just wishful thinking. Hopefully any upcoming changes will see him never let near Star Wars for the rest of time.

[Ronnie]

I genuinely don't understand the hate for Rian Johnson, nor The Last Jedi. If a new trilogy by him gets formally announced tomorrow I'd be over the moon. I think he's fantastic and having recently watched Knives Out has only solidified that view for me. I realise fans aren't happy that Luke wasn't mowing Stormtroopers down with his green lightsaber, but for me Last Jedi is by far my favourite sequel film.

8 hours ago, Julius said:

Disney has an earnings call this coming Tuesday. Would not surprise me in the slightest if we see some more official news, or even trailers, drop in the next seven days. 

Fingers crossed.

Mando S2 is still scheduled for October as it stands, and considering that S1 dropped in November and had its first trailer at the end of August, if the marketing timeline is going to be similar, we should see a trailer in the next week or two at the latest. 

And then there's the Rebels sequel. Whenever we get news for that, whether it be next week or next year, I'm sure I'll be over the moon. 

Exciting as announcements for new shows and films are, they've got more than enough announced right now. It's time that we start seeing how far along things are, even if release windows are still going to be nebulous. I mean, I know production and release has been delayed for it, but we haven't heard anything new about Rian's project since The Last Jedi was released, other than that it's still in the works. 

I'll probably not watch the Mando trailer, or maybe I'll just skim it. Star Wars is pretty good at not showing too much, but still it's only a couple of months away (hopefully), I think I can wait that long. Looking forward to seeing reactions though.

As for Rian, even if Lucasfilm wanted to formalise his trilogy, I'm not sure they ever could sadly. The toxic reaction to him would doom a project before it's even begun. Really sad. Maybe in time but feelings still seem pretty raw.

I agree that with The Bad Batch, the High Republic stuff, Mando, Cassian and Obi Wan shows there's enough that's already been announced. I'd be keen to see an update on the Cassian show. Mando has set the bar really high for that one. Regardless of what they talk about in the coming months, I'm excited for "Phase 2" 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Ronnie

[Julius]

4 hours ago, will' said:

I’d had it in my head that his films were cancelled rather than delayed. Guess it was just wishful thinking. Hopefully any upcoming changes will see him never let near Star Wars for the rest of time.

Well, that's a spicy but not totally unpopular opinion. I'm sure you probably mentioned it back when it released, but maybe your thoughts have changed since, so I'll ask: what were the biggest problems you had with it? 

23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I genuinely don't understand the hate for Rian Johnson, nor The Last Jedi. If a new trilogy by him gets formally announced tomorrow I'd be over the moon. I think he's fantastic and having recently watched Knives Out has only solidified that view for me. I realise fans aren't happy that Luke wasn't mowing Stormtroopers down with his green lightsaber, but for me Last Jedi is by far my favourite sequel film.

Still haven't seen Knives Out, but was a big fan of his going into The Last Jedi after really enjoying Looper. 

I feel like one of the issues is that he started out with a Saga film. If you took a lot of the main beats and applied them to anyone else in the galaxy, at any other time, in an original story, I feel like it would have been received much better.

Another issue is that him directing this film was hyped to all hell: someone should have told Kathleen Kennedy to not set him up as some mythical filmmaker like she did, nor should they have announced that he was going to take the reins on his own original trilogy of films some two months before launch. It hyped me up at the time, because seriously, how wouldn't it? But looking back, they just put far more pressure on him and the film than was warranted. 

Also, the timeline of the sequel trilogy's story itself that JJ corned Rian into somewhat with that cliffhanger ending really didn't help, especially considering there was no overarching plan for the film. Sure I've mentioned it before, but having TFA happen, TLJ take place in the immediately following week or two, and then TROS a year later is just so poor from a storytelling perspective. It's funny because it feels to me like the sequels could be called: "Rey: That Year I Changed The Galaxy". 

Compare that to the original trilogy, and even the prequels, and I think the timeline is much stronger in that regards. I mean look at the originals in particular, just focusing on Luke's arc: farm boy to Rebel hero in A New Hope; potential-filled but somewhat arrogant Jedi hopeful in The Empire Strikes Back; a humbled and honed Jedi by the end of Return of the Jedi. The main thread and direction that the story was going to go in during ROTJ was also clearly set up at the end of TESB: Vader is Luke's father, now which one of them is going to take the biggest risk and make the choice to bring the other to their side? 

What I will say is that I think The Last Jedi has the highest of highs in the sequel trilogy for me, with some great concepts, but the pacing and execution just weren't there for me. It's quite clearly the only one of the three films which was well managed, finishing principal photography well over a year before release, and I feel like that's the main reason Rian was given his own trilogy: he delivered a risky blockbuster on schedule and within budget on his first try. From a purely studio-facing perspective, it makes sense to me that they would want him back. 

For me, it's on par with The Force Awakens. While that film captured the magic of the original trilogy by firmly gripping to the proven formula (perhaps a little too hard at times), The Last Jedi took risks, which I will always respect. They didn't all land for me, but I knew Rian had the best intentions, and came away with high expectations for The Rise of Skywalker, considering that they still could have gone out on a high with this trilogy. 

That one still hurts the most for me. 

I think the biggest problem overall for me with the sequel trilogy is that it was very clearly influenced by Star Wars, and made by Star Wars fans. Not Flash Gordon, or samurai films (as much as it should have been, at least, though I think Rian was best in this regard with the Rashomon-style thread in TLJ and some of his cinematography), or old westerns, or fresh ideas on the Force influenced by modern society's generally shifting perspective on religion, or old war films, etc. 

That's where I feel The Mandalorian shows best that it understands how to make Star Wars in the modern era: be inspired by the same things as George, by all means pay homage to what has come before in the franchise, but above all else tell a new story from there. 

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I'll probably not watch the Mando trailer, or maybe I'll just skim it. Star Wars is pretty good at not showing too much, but still it's only a couple of months away (hopefully), I think I can wait that long. Looking forward to seeing reactions though.

As for Rian, even if Lucasfilm wanted to formalise his trilogy, I'm not sure they ever could sadly. The toxic reaction to him would doom a project before it's even begun. Really sad. Maybe in time but feelings still seem pretty raw.

I agree that with The Bad Batch, the High Republic stuff, Mando, Cassian and Obi Wan shows there's enough that's already been announced. I'd be keen to see an update on the Cassian show. Mando has set the bar really high for that one. Regardless of what they talk about in the coming months, I'm excited for "Phase 2" 

Yeah...I won't be able to stop myself from watching the Mando trailer  but I respect you for doing so! They are normally pretty good with the trailers, only time I think they dropped the ball under Disney was with TFA, I went in knowing full well what was about to play out with just a little speculation (okay, maybe a lot, but all based on things shown in the trailers!) on my side. 

Instead of a trilogy I wish they gave him a standalone film and saw how it went from there. Rian for me was clearly far more attuned to the same influences as George than JJ was, I would have loved a film about a wandering Jedi. 

Yep, I'm very excited for what we have in store too! Oddly enough, most concerned about Obi-Wan, it's odd to me that they still seem to be having issues with deciding how to best tell that story. I'm sure Ewan will be great, but I feel like if they focus on what I think they should - a spiritual journey for Kenobi where he communes with Qui-Gon and Yoda, learns more about the Force, reflects on his past (Satine and Anakin in particular), perhaps even senses Anakin's mechanical breathing through the Force during meditation, and scares away a caravan of Tusken Raiders rampaging through Tatooine by using the Force to embody a krayt dragon, and all while on Tatooine - then this should just be a film. I get that they need things for Disney+, but there are so many shows in the works, and I feel like this chapter of Obi's life would be better presented in a film.

At the moment I hate the idea of a Kenobi S2. 

[Will]

35 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I genuinely don't understand the hate for Rian Johnson, nor The Last Jedi. If a new trilogy by him gets formally announced tomorrow I'd be over the moon. I think he's fantastic and having recently watched Knives Out has only solidified that view for me. I realise fans aren't happy that Luke wasn't mowing Stormtroopers down with his green lightsaber, but for me Last Jedi is by far my favourite sequel film.

For me it’s the exact opposite, in fact I’d go even further and say that The Last Jedi is by far my least favourite of the entire Skywalker saga.

Just now, Julius said:

Well, that's a spicy but not totally unpopular opinion. I'm sure you probably mentioned it back when it released, but maybe your thoughts have changed since, so I'll ask: what were the biggest problems you had with it?

Luke as a character makes no sense, the situation they’re in makes no sense, the actions of the majority of the characters make no sense. The majority of the film is a bore fest. I honestly can’t think of a single redeeming part of it. I have tried to watch it since and I can’t even sit through a full viewing of it. The Rise of Skywalker was a mess because of having to fix so much of what this film broke.

If he does end up getting to make more Star Wars I’d probably go as far as to not even bother seeing them, something I never thought I’d think about any Star Wars film.

 

[Ronnie]

32 minutes ago, will' said:

Luke as a character makes no sense

Why though? Why doesn't his characterisation make any sense? You wanted him as the badass hero from the original trilogy? People and situations change in 30 years. They didn't go with what was expected and instead told an interesting story.

32 minutes ago, will' said:

the situation they’re in makes no sense

In what way? 

32 minutes ago, will' said:

the actions of the majority of the characters make no sense

Any examples?

Sorry I'm genuinely just trying to understand. Whenever I speak to someone who didn't like the film they have a hard time articulating the actual problem and just throw out macro level things without actually honing in on any specific issue.

32 minutes ago, will' said:

The majority of the film is a bore fest. I honestly can’t think of a single redeeming part of it.

I suspect if social media had been a thing back when Empire Strikes Back had released people would be calling that film a borefest and slamming that fact that Luke "lost".

I think The Last Jedi gave us so many amazing moments, I find it hard to narrow it down. Poe's attack on the cruiser, the Rey/Kyle Ren force connections, Chewie and the Porgs , the betrayal of Snoke and the Praetorian guard sequence that followed, the Hyperspace ramming, the stunning battle on Crait, Luke and Kylo Ren facing off. It had tons of great character moments, it looked absolutely stunning, filmed beautifully, had depth for the first time in a Star Wars film. I can't say enough good things about it.

I'm pretty bad at articulating thoughts, if you're so inclined there's a great YouTube video from CinemaWins (a breath of fresh air YouTube channel that actually celebrates the good instead of tearing everything down like 90% of videos on there). Everything Great about The Last Jedi 

If you don't want to get into it that's fine. I just think if you can get on board with the story decisions Rian decided to tell, the film itself is great. After The Force Awakens, I appreciated a bit of surprise with the storyline.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Ronnie

[Ronnie]

26 minutes ago, Julius said:

Also, the timeline of the sequel trilogy's story itself that JJ corned Rian into somewhat with that cliffhanger ending really didn't help, especially considering there was no overarching plan for the film. Sure I've mentioned it before, but having TFA happen, TLJ take place in the immediately following week or two, and then TROS a year later is just so poor from a storytelling perspective. It's funny because it feels to me like the sequels could be called: "Rey: That Year I Changed The Galaxy". 

I don't mind the shortened time frame really, but I do agree JJ dropped Rian in it with his (admittedly excellent) cliffhanger ending. I suppose Rian could have opened his film 6 months later with Rey still training with Luke but I think a lot of people were keen to see "what happened next".

I can't say I noticed the hyping up of Rian Johnson before the film came out but I wasn't as invested into reading everything about the films back then, like I am now, so will take your word for it! 

28 minutes ago, Julius said:

I think the biggest problem overall for me with the sequel trilogy is that it was very clearly influenced by Star Wars, and made by Star Wars fans. Not Flash Gordon, or samurai films (as much as it should have been, at least, though I think Rian was best in this regard with the Rashomon-style thread in TLJ and some of his cinematography), or old westerns, or fresh ideas on the Force influenced by modern society's generally shifting perspective on religion, or old war films, etc. 

Agree with you on this and how the Mandalorian is the exact opposite. Much as I like JJ and I think he did plenty of great stuff, I think he was probably the wrong man to bring in, with hindsight.

Another thing to remember is, people keep comparing Star Wars to Marvel, but the MCU's early years were rough too. They certainly didn't get everything right, it wasn't until phase 2 and 3 that they hit their stride. Or at least that's the impression I get as a non-fan.

32 minutes ago, Julius said:

Yep, I'm very excited for what we have in store too! Oddly enough, most concerned about Obi-Wan, it's odd to me that they still seem to be having issues with deciding how to best tell that story. I'm sure Ewan will be great, but I feel like if they focus on what I think they should - a spiritual journey for Kenobi where he communes with Qui-Gon and Yoda, learns more about the Force, reflects on his past (Satine and Anakin in particular), perhaps even senses Anakin's mechanical breathing through the Force during meditation, and scares away a caravan of Tusken Raiders rampaging through Tatooine by using the Force to embody a krayt dragon, and all while on Tatooine - then this should just be a film. I get that they need things for Disney+, but there are so many shows in the works, and I feel like this chapter of Obi's life would be better presented in a film.

I hope that The Rise of Skywalker has taught them to take their time with these things. If they're having trouble deciding how best to tell Obi-Wan's story, then take your time and get it right. No need to rush. I WISH TRoS had been delayed a year, though I suppose Covid would have screwed those plans up anyway !! But yeah Kenobi seems like a one season thing.

[Will]

14 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Why though? Why doesn't his characterisation make any sense? You wanted him as the badass hero from the original trilogy? People and situations change in 30 years. They didn't go with what was expected and instead told an interesting story.

I wanted him to be a character I could believe had developed from the original series Luke. It was unexpected because it made no sense that that was what the character had become. For me it wasn’t interesting at all because I don’t care one bit about this new Luke Skywalker.

18 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

In what way?

They don’t have enough magic fuel to escape but they can go slow enough that some other faster ships can’t catch up with them and they can just trundle along in a stalemate for a few days? Why would anyone on either side allow this to happen?

22 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Any examples?

Sorry I'm genuinely just trying to understand. Whenever I speak to someone who didn't like the film they have a hard time articulating the actual problem and just throw out macro level things without actually honing in on any specific issue.

Things I can think of would be nobody following orders to do things that don’t even have much of a benefit. That idiot girl who loved Finn so much she stopped him from taking out the giant laser thing (I think). I can’t think of other specific examples as (thankfully) it’s been a long time since I saw the film. 

I think the lack of having specific examples if due to find the whole film bad. Like non-stop bad. For me it’s not a few specific things that pull it away from greatness. It’s a non-stop, 100%, all the way through piece of crap. The specific example of it being bad is not needed as you can pick out a part of it at random and it will confirm the thought that it’s bad.

[Happenstance]

44 minutes ago, will' said:

For me it’s the exact opposite, in fact I’d go even further and say that The Last Jedi is by far my least favourite of the entire Skywalker saga.

Luke as a character makes no sense, the situation they’re in makes no sense, the actions of the majority of the characters make no sense. The majority of the film is a bore fest. I honestly can’t think of a single redeeming part of it. I have tried to watch it since and I can’t even sit through a full viewing of it. The Rise of Skywalker was a mess because of having to fix so much of what this film broke.

If he does end up getting to make more Star Wars I’d probably go as far as to not even bother seeing them, something I never thought I’d think about any Star Wars film.

 

I always felt like I’d have been fine with most of The Last Jedi if it just hadn’t been a main trilogy movie. It left the last movie in a scramble to fix plot points and move things along. It was a complete waste of a Skywalker saga movie.

[Ronnie]

21 minutes ago, will' said:

I wanted him to be a character I could believe had developed from the original series Luke. It was unexpected because it made no sense that that was what the character had become. 

Why does it make no sense that a person and circumstances can change in 30 years? And anyway, his sacrifice was the most heroic thing the character could do. He managed to save people including his sister and inspire the galaxy to rise up. That's what that scene at the end was showing, the kids hearing reports of what happened at Crait, and how Luke Skywalker faced off an army of AT-ATs unscathed. It's what inspired a force sensitive boy to dream about standing up for himself, which then eventually led to the Galaxy fleet in IX. 

21 minutes ago, will' said:

They don’t have enough magic fuel to escape but they can go slow enough that some other faster ships can’t catch up with them and they can just trundle along in a stalemate for a few days? Why would anyone on either side allow this to happen?

Why not? Ships need fuel to go to hyperspace and the First Order was shown to have the technology to track them. The latter have no respect for these rebels, they're bugs to be squashed. They showed their arrogance in letting them burn off the remainder of their fuel. 

21 minutes ago, will' said:

That idiot girl who loved Finn so much she stopped him from taking out the giant laser thing (I think)

Why is she an idiot? That act pretty much typified the moral of the film, the Rebels win by "saving what they love, not destroying what they hate". Later shown by Luke's tactics.

21 minutes ago, will' said:

I think the lack of having specific examples if due to find the whole film bad. Like non-stop bad. For me it’s not a few specific things that pull it away from greatness. It’s a non-stop, 100%, all the way through piece of crap. The specific example of it being bad is not needed as you can pick out a part of it at random and it will confirm the thought that it’s bad.

Ok. That's the sentiment with most TLJ haters I try and have a conversation with. "It's a piece of crap, just because. I can't explain why, but it is.". People have an expectation of what a Star Wars film should be and if it does something different and unexpected, it's bad. If Empire had released during the social media bandwagon/echo chamber days it would have got as undeservedly torn apart as this film. Thankfully it didn't.

16 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

I always felt like I’d have been fine with most of The Last Jedi if it just hadn’t been a main trilogy movie. It left the last movie in a scramble to fix plot points and move things along. It was a complete waste of a Skywalker saga movie.

TROS didn't need to fix anything.

Rey would have been perfectly fine being a nobody and Snoke would have been perfectly fine with just being a bad guy who rose up with the First Order.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Ronnie

[Will]

23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

But don't you find it a bit more interesting that he didn't become some badass who could save the galaxy all over again?

He didn’t need to be a badass that would save the Galaxy, if he was it wouldn’t make any sense for these films to exist at all. It just needed to make sense that the character in the film evolved from the character we left at the end of VI, which it didn’t. 

23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

A lot of people miss this but his sacrifice was the most heroic thing the character could do. He managed to save people including his sister AND inspire the galaxy to rise up. That's what that scene at the end was showing, the kids hearing reports of what happened at Crait, and how Luke Skywalker faced off an army of AT-ATs unscathed. It's what inspired a force sensitive boy to dream about standing up for himself, which then eventually led to the Galaxy fleet in IX

So did he sacrifice himself or come out of it unscathed? I’m confused by what these kids are inspired by. How did this message get out? The good guys are a few people in a cave, did they have a PR Agency on Coruscant sending out press releases on Luke’s never before seen force abilities? Whichever way you look at it I don’t get how Luke’s sacrifice is the most heroic thing he could do. As the only trained Jedi around it seems like the stupidest to me.

23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Why not? Ships need fuel to go to hyperspace and the First Order was shown to have the technology to track them. The latter have no respect for these rebels, they're bugs to be squashed. They showed their arrogance in letting them burn off the remainder of their fuel. 

But why not just squash them? The whole premise of the movie is nonsense because of this.

23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Why is she an idiot? That act pretty much typified the moral of the film, the Rebels win by "saving what they love, not destroying what they hate". Later shown by Luke's tactics.

Because of her stupid actions. Didn’t she also have some weird and convenient hate for some people on the casino planet they luckily had time for a detour to while on the snail pace space chase? I can’t remember. Don’t the rebels lose overall in this film?

23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Ok. That's the sentiment with most TLJ haters I try and have a conversation with. "It's a piece of crap, just because. I can't explain why, but it is."

I think I’m giving you a fair amount of reason I dislike it. I’m just also saying that in addition to these examples the whole thing sucks.

23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

If Empire had released during the social media bandwagon/echo chamber days it would have got as undeservedly torn apart as this film. Thankfully it didn't.

Would it? I think that’s just a weak reason to link The Last Jedi with the (generally accepted) best film in the series. As someone who’s social media intake is this forum (if that counts) and a few instagram posts a year I’d like to think I’m not too swayed by what most of it is saying.

24 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

TROS didn't need to fix anything.

Rey would have been perfectly fine being a nobody and Snoke would have been perfectly fine with just being a bad guy who rose up with the First Order.

But it wasn’t just those things it tried to fix. It explicitly tried to sort out the mess of Luke’s attitude to things and then it also had to tie up the various messes the film had created. Those two things would have been fine on their own, but these films are part of a bigger existing storyline. If there was no connection to the past films then what would be the point of them being 7, 8 and 9 in the first place?

[Ronnie]

42 minutes ago, will' said:

It just needed to make sense that the character in the film evolved from the character we left at the end of VI, which it didn’t. 

He evolved plenty, just not in the expected way. That's ok though I think, people and circumstances change in 30 years. The fact that he'd grown weary of the Jedi order ways (something Lucas has said was very deliberately shown in the prequels) was a good thing. That he could still inspire the galaxy with his selfless actions was the ultimate heroic thing he could do, while still allowing our new heroes a chance to shine. I thought it was perfect.

42 minutes ago, will' said:

So did he sacrifice himself or come out of it unscathed? I’m confused by what these kids are inspired by. How did this message get out? The good guys are a few people in a cave, did they have a PR Agency on Coruscant sending out press releases on Luke’s never before seen force abilities?

How did the message get out? Why does that matter? It doesn't have to be the good guys who spread the word, plenty in the First Order saw it and Ep 9 shows that there are plenty of defectors in their ranks.

If the last scene of the film hadn't happened, I'd agree with you that his actions weren't important enough but they very purposely chose to show word of his actions had inspired a new generation of kids/force sensitives.

42 minutes ago, will' said:

But why not just squash them? The whole premise of the movie is nonsense because of this.

It was a cat and mouse game, and the Resistance were out of range. The Last Jedi actually added a ton to Star Wars space combat. The First Order were patient, they were picking off the ships one by one once they'd run out of fuel.

42 minutes ago, will' said:

Because of her stupid actions. Didn’t she also have some weird and convenient hate for some people on the casino planet they luckily had time for a detour to while on the snail pace space chase? I can’t remember.

What stupid actions?

Not sure what's weird about hating people who profit from war. 

42 minutes ago, will' said:

I think I’m giving you a fair amount of reason I dislike it. I’m just also saying that in addition to these examples the whole thing sucks.

I think a lot of your reasons don't make much sense, but hey, they're yours. I'm not arguing against you not liking the film, you're of course entitled to not like something. I'm just arguing against your suggestion the film is a piece of crap, which I strongly disagree with. You don't get 90% critical rating on Rotten Tomatoes if you're a piece of crap, by a film-maker who's next film got 97%.

42 minutes ago, will' said:

As someone who’s social media intake is this forum (if that counts) and a few instagram posts a year I’d like to think I’m not too swayed by what most of it is saying.

Fair enough.

42 minutes ago, will' said:

But it wasn’t just those things it tried to fix. It explicitly tried to sort out the mess of Luke’s attitude to things and then it also had to tie up the various messes the film had created.

Like I said, I don't think TROS needed to "fix" anything. The prequels already explicitly showed the Jedi order to have lost their way and Luke was simply reacting to that and how history was repeating itself. There was no "mess" imo. From reports, Rian worked far closer with the Lucasfilm story group than JJ ever did, and a ton more respect for the Star Wars universe. JJ just wanted to make a cool film.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Ronnie

[Will]

17 hours ago, Ronnie said:

He evolved plenty, just not in the expected way. That's ok though I think, people and circumstances change in 30 years. The fact that he'd grown weary of the Jedi order ways (something Lucas has said was very deliberately shown in the prequels) was a good thing. That he could still inspire the galaxy with his selfless actions was the ultimate heroic thing he could do, while still allowing our new heroes a chance to shine. I thought it was perfect.

I do think that’s quite a nice video, but it cherry picks very conveniently to prop up it’s case. I would get Luke growing weary of the Jedi order if it was still some massive organization as per the prequels, but it was just him. Why did he choose to rebuild it in such a way that he had to run away from it? I totally agree that it’s fine for him to evolve, even in an unexpected way, but for me the evolution they chose to go with doesn’t really make any sense.

17 hours ago, Ronnie said:

How did the message get out? Why does that matter? It doesn't have to be the good guys who spread the word, plenty in the First Order saw it and Ep 9 shows that there are plenty of defectors in their ranks.

It matters because it’s not consistent with anything we’ve seen previously. In the originals Han doesn’t believe there is such a thing as Jedi, yet now a small battle on an out of the way world is instantly known by all these people. It’s not even this part I really have a problem with, it’s more the fact that he needed to sacrifice himself at all, and the weird way it was done. It’s up there with Padme just losing the will to live in the prequels.

17 hours ago, Ronnie said:

It was a cat and mouse game, and the Resistance were out of range. The Last Jedi actually added a ton to Star Wars space combat. The First Order were patient, they were picking off the ships one by one once they'd run out of fuel.

That’s another good video, but it still doesn’t explain to me why they would hang around on doing this. It’s just a weak plot point to allow all the other stuff to happen.

17 hours ago, Ronnie said:

What stupid actions?

Not sure what's weird about hating people who profit from war. 

Fair enough, I agree with that, couldn’t honestly remember what her deal was. I also can’t really remember what she did in the movie, I just remember her being in the way a lot and causing various things to happen not because it made sense that the character would do that, but because they needed something to get us to the next part of the movie.

17 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I think a lot of your reasons don't make much sense, but hey, they're yours. I'm not arguing against you not liking the film, you're of course entitled to not like something. I'm just arguing against your suggestion the film is a piece of crap, which I strongly disagree with. You don't get 90% critical rating on Rotten Tomatoes if you're a piece of crap, by a film-maker who's next film got 97%.

I don’t really enjoy Star Wars for it’s critical acclaim, it’s not what they’re about for me. The audience score of 43% seems a far fairer indication of the films true worth. Though it is higher than I’d give it.

I do think it’s great that you (and many other people) like it, I REALLY wish I was in the same camp. I wanted to love the sequel trilogy as much as I love the other films in the series. Instead I think they range from pointless (Force Awakens) to downright terrible (Last Jedi). I do appreciate your viewpoint and the time taken to explain it too. I just think Star Wars should be cool moments in a universe that makes coherent sense, something I felt was way off here.

Maybe one day I’ll be able to sit through them fully and re-evaluate my position on them, it would definitely be nice to enjoy all nine films.

[Ronnie]

Quote

THE LEGO STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL TO PREMIERE ON DISNEY+

LEARN THE TRUE MEANING OF LIFE DAY WITH A FESTIVE CELEBRATION OF THE ENTIRE SKYWALKER SAGA IN THE CHARMING LEGO STYLE DEBUTING NOVEMBER 17.

It’s the most wonderful time of the year on Kashyyyk, and LEGO Star Wars fans are invited to journey back to Chewbacca’s homeworld for a Wookiee-sized celebration of the galaxy’s most cheerful and magical holiday — Life Day!

This November, The LEGO Star Wars Holiday Special, — which premieres on Life Day, November 17, 2020 on Disney+, — will reunite Rey, Finn, Poe, Chewie, Rose and all your favorite droids, from R2-D2 to BB-8, for a joyous feast on Life Day, the holiday first introduced in 1978’s Star Wars Holiday Special. The new LEGO special is the first to debut on the streaming platform and will continue the rich longtime collaboration between Lucasfilm and the LEGO Group — playful adventures told in an endearingly irreverent way.

Set after the events of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, Rey leaves her friends to prepare for Life Day as she embarks on a new adventure with BB-8 to gain a deeper knowledge of the Force. At a mysterious Jedi temple, Rey finds herself hurled into a cross-timeline adventure through beloved moments in Star Wars cinematic history, coming into contact with Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi and other iconic heroes and villains from all nine Skywalker saga films. But will she make it back in time for the Life Day feast and learn the true meaning of holiday spirit?  You’ll have to watch to find out!

I'm in !  this could be a lot of fun! Hopefully they'll get as many of the actors involved, I assume Daisy Ridley will be in it for starters.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Ronnie

[Will]

Sounds pretty fun! Will definitely watch it in the run up to Christmas at some point.

[Ronnie]

This is pretty crazy

Oh and #MakeSolo2Happen

[Julius]

1 minute ago, Ronnie said:

This is pretty crazy

Oh and #MakeSolo2Happen

It's getting to the point with this sort of thing where I question if Disney are inevitably going to have projects depend on this more, for example if we were to ever see Luke Skywalker in live-action set between ROTJ and TFA.

It's going to be a difficult line to toe, because while I would have personally much preferred Harrison Ford's younger face to be plastered all over Solo and for a half decent voice actor to have voiced him, you then end up in a situation where Alden Ehrenreich probably doesn't get the role in the first place, or if he does his name isn't advertised, and he isn't doing press junkets (such as with Guy Henry as Tarkin in Rogue One). But then, we do know Lucasfilm has scans of all of their (major) actors' faces, and George was always looking ahead with this sort of thing, so I'm curious to see how it goes. It would certainly make it much easier to tell stories in the GFFA a hundred years from now in live-action, rather than having to lean so heavily on animation. 

As for Solo 2...I don't think it'll happen, purely because of the box office numbers of the first film (I mean, that and the production mess it ended up being). And yes, I know they absolutely did send that film out to die: next to Infinity War, Incredibles 2, et al, oh and not to forget the nonexistent marketing campaign. It was stupid.

Granted, I think we potentially end up with something better out of it, a Disney+ show a la Young Indy. That's all I wanted from the start with a new Han anyways (that and some more stuff between ROTJ and TFA...), heck why not bookend the show HIMYM style and have it be an older Han reminiscing and telling these old stories to a young Ben? 

[Ronnie]

9 hours ago, Julius said:

It's getting to the point with this sort of thing where I question if Disney are inevitably going to have projects depend on this more, for example if we were to ever see Luke Skywalker in live-action set between ROTJ and TFA.

It's going to be a difficult line to toe, because while I would have personally much preferred Harrison Ford's younger face to be plastered all over Solo and for a half decent voice actor to have voiced him, you then end up in a situation where Alden Ehrenreich probably doesn't get the role in the first place, or if he does his name isn't advertised, and he isn't doing press junkets (such as with Guy Henry as Tarkin in Rogue One). But then, we do know Lucasfilm has scans of all of their (major) actors' faces, and George was always looking ahead with this sort of thing, so I'm curious to see how it goes. It would certainly make it much easier to tell stories in the GFFA a hundred years from now in live-action, rather than having to lean so heavily on animation. 

Never really considered Lucasfilm would use the technology for their own projects down the line. I suppose they've already dabbled in it with THAT scene in IX, worked really well too. I think it's likely to be smaller scale stuff like that or at a push Tarkin in Rogue One.

9 hours ago, Julius said:

As for Solo 2...I don't think it'll happen, purely because of the box office numbers of the first film (I mean, that and the production mess it ended up being). And yes, I know they absolutely did send that film out to die: next to Infinity War, Incredibles 2, et al, oh and not to forget the nonexistent marketing campaign. It was stupid.

You would hope they would put a big chunk of the underperformance down to the non-existant marketing campaign. I've no idea why they didn't just release Solo at Christmas time instead of May, I get that they wanted space before IX but releasing so close to TLJ was a big mistake. 

But yeah I'm sure a film won't happen, which is a shame as I loved Solo. Disney+ series would be fun though.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Ronnie

[Julius]

Well apparently Mando S2 has been rated in the Netherlands as 12+ for fear. 

Pretty sure a Spidey cameo is all but confirmed then 

But seriously, not exactly sure what Disney is doing. Might be a bit different to Solo seeing as this will be available through a streaming service, but still, their arrogance about marketing sometimes, especially when it comes to Star Wars (again: Solo), drives me up the wall. Still can't stop thinking about what Bob Iger said a few years ago about how they could hypothetically not announce a grand opening for Galaxy's Edge and he could tweet it out, and millions would still be there on the first day. 

Unless your ear is low to the ground on Star Wars news, would you even know Season 2 is releasing next month? 

[Julius]

Well, speaking of The Mandalorian...

Season 2 starts 30th October! 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Julius

[Ronnie]

Hooray!!

Interesting how they don't call it season 2, maybe I'm reading too much into it. 

Nice new logo, looks like they're doing the sequel trilogy colour coding