Gizmo Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 £3 voucher, great. Totally makes up for the week delay and ultimate failure to get me what I ordered from them.
Rummy Posted December 5, 2014 Author Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) They may realise it, but they can't force retailers to take stock, and if retailers are unwilling to take that stock it puts a disproportionate amount of risk onto Nintendo. It's Nintendo's job to predict which products are likely to be desirable, then to make those products available. It's retailers job to predict how much of a product their customer base will want, and to obtain said product in accordance to that prediction. It COULD be Nintendo not making the adapters available in the first place, or it could be that shops failed to predict how many of their customers would want the adapted. In fact, prior to that, Nintendo need their manufacturing partners to produce the adapters in the first place. SO 1) mystery manufacturer 2) Nintendo 3) Shops. I know I got my copy with no problems, I don't know of any one who ordered from Zavvi who had problems. In fact the issues seem to be mostly with ShopTo and Amazon. And as for stock shortages now... I can understand it. Pre-orders are available to reduce the possibility of shortages, with the early adopters giving strong indications of initial demand. I read on here that lots of people made last minute orders. Here's an idea I just had. NoE expected huge demand. They needed till December 5th to manufacture enough adapters. Actual reported demand from shops was surprisingly low, so they only need till November 28th. Release date was adjusted accordingly.... Then lots of people made late pre-orders. Demand surged... Nintendo (and shops) were unable to meet demand. in that scenario... fault lays at the feet of the late pre-orders (for being so late!), Nintendo (for changing the release date) and the shops (for accepting more pre-orders than they could honour). I can think of dozens of scenario's tbh, some where it is Nintendo's fault, some where it is mostly shops fault, some where whatever companies are manufacturing the things are at fault. But tbh, whatever the issue I would blame the shops primarily, for failing to give a clear indication of which pre-orders where likely to be honoured for release, and which would be post release orders. I can see why they would do that though - suppose Amazon did make it clear, but shopto didn't, shopto would look more attractive... so they are banking on people not cancelling orders when it becomes clear it won't be honoured on release. And it's Nintendo's job to produce and distribute a product. Did they enter the market a week ago? No. They've been in it for years. They should know better by now, that's my issue. They aren't actually amateurs, despite how well they do a job of looking it. ahahahahahaha wut. I can't even. I can't fucking even. *RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEE* Edited December 5, 2014 by Rummy Automerged Doublepost
peterl0 Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Wow, tough luck to those who have had orders cancelled! At the moment, at the bottom of the thread, I have an advert for shopto showing the adaptor and controller, which seems a bit cruel. Edited December 5, 2014 by peterl0
Rummy Posted December 5, 2014 Author Posted December 5, 2014 I say everyone complain via whatever means possible. Support, social media, miiverse etc. This is an absolute fucking joke.
Pestneb Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 And it's Nintendo's job to produce and distribute a product. Did they enter the market a week ago? No. They've been in it for years. They should know better by now, that's my issue. They aren't actually amateurs, despite how well they do a job of looking it. Exactly my point, they aren't amateurs. If retailers make an order of 100k pre-order copies, and from experience Nintendo see that retailers generally need 110% of what they pre-order, Nintendo would sensibly produce 110k copies for those retailers. They assume competency from the retailers. If they produce 200k copies on a whim, on a hunch and a guess, or what they "feel" consumers SHOULD want, they are being foolish and are potentially stuck with 90k copies that they then have to flog at a loss. School boy error. I'm not saying 100% that (retailers under ordering) is what has happened, just it is a simplification of what could have happened. As we don't know all the facts of the situation we can't really in a level headed manner lay blame fully on one party or the other. All we know is that somewhere along the line (or several places along the line) mistakes where made and ultimately all parties involved suffer to varying degrees as a result.
Rummy Posted December 5, 2014 Author Posted December 5, 2014 Exactly my point, they aren't amateurs. If retailers make an order of 100k pre-order copies, and from experience Nintendo see that retailers generally need 110% of what they pre-order, Nintendo would sensibly produce 110k copies for those retailers. They assume competency from the retailers. If they produce 200k copies on a whim, on a hunch and a guess, or what they "feel" consumers SHOULD want, they are being foolish and are potentially stuck with 90k copies that they then have to flog at a loss. School boy error. I'm not saying 100% that (retailers under ordering) is what has happened, just it is a simplification of what could have happened. As we don't know all the facts of the situation we can't really in a level headed manner lay blame fully on one party or the other. All we know is that somewhere along the line (or several places along the line) mistakes where made and ultimately all parties involved suffer to varying degrees as a result. I'd argue the point however that Smash is a great anomaly in the Nintendo catalogue, so you can't apply those rules like you might do elsewhere. If I was Nintendo I'd probably look at GC hardware sales vs Melee sales, and Wii sales vs Brawl sales too. The former is anomalous because Melee became bigger with time, the latter because the Wii hit a very different market, but still I'd think of that. I'd be in touch my fanbase, and appreciate the hugeness of Smash. Got to any tourney - you don't see ANYONE playing a competitive PM game without a smash pad. You hardly see anyone doing friendlies without it. PM even in itself is a reflection of how huge Smash is. Given the low sales of the Wii U, and if I had the info I mentioned - I'd hazard at simply aiming for a production of 50% of the WiiU's hardware sales at a minimum. Maybe releasing less at first but planning for the target 50% with a view to call it off if sales are slow. I, for one of many, bought my WiiU mostly with knowing Smash was on the horizon. WiiU sales are a good indicator for Nintendo's own products, especially something like Smash. I should mention as well, as I have previously - there is no shortage of solus copies. That's easy to obtain. They've grossly mis-estimated their market when with their experience they really should know better. They shouldn't have to be taking their majority lead from retailers on this one - especially as I think it's a product where normal numbers don't apply. Some factors other than retailers to consider - Smash bros documentary, the Evo controversy, the competitive smash/melee scene, the fact something like PM exists, the wealth of evidence attesting to all these factors on the internet. The stupidly annoying fact is - they weren't even unaware. Evidence shows they know. The fact the GC adapter exists is an answer to a demand. The E3 tourney with the greats, evidence of the demand. It's all there - but someone's fucked up and there's been a disconnection, it's rippling through to the consumers they promised otherwise - and I think it's notably damaging to them with something as important as Smash.
yesteryeargames Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Shopto apparently shipped my controller plus game yesterday , received the controller but the game was missing , the whole reason I had such a delay in the first place was that they needed to be sent together .grrrr I give up :S
Pestneb Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Given the low sales of the Wii U, and if I had the info I mentioned - I'd hazard at simply aiming for a production of 50% of the WiiU's hardware sales at a minimum. Maybe releasing less at first but planning for the target 50% with a view to call it off if sales are slow. You are conveniently ignoring several parties in the whole process to make the situation seem a lot simpler and one dimensional. If retailers will only accept 10k orders from you (despite you informing them quite passionately about how in touch you are with your fanbase), and you have a further 3 million copies on your hands, you then have to store them somewhere. That costs a lot of money, and the longer they stay in that storage, the higher the cost per unit. That cost needs to be passed onto the retailer, which means that as time passes the cost of your product for the consumer would in effect increase, reducing demand. That leaves retailers themselves storing your product, which again, increases costs. On the other side, manufacturers will want assurances regarding their business. They don't want to spend £100k getting their factory ready to make your product, only to be told that after they have made back £90k that they need to wind everything back down and just accept the loss. It's not ALL about the consumer, larger orders carry greater risk to all three levels, and there is a point (for all parties involved) where taking on additional risk out weighs the potential for reward.
Goron_3 Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 My order has also been cancelled. This whole thing is a fucking joke. I've waited for this game for about 5 years and got a Wii U exclusively for it. The fact that that I already have the ONLY wired controller option for the game but can't use it because they haven't made enough adaptors is unreal. Smash is a long term seller; it will sell for years and is seen by many as a reason to buy Nintendo systems. The fact that they couldn't even produce enough to get them through the launch window is unbelievable..Yes, retailers may not have been keen but even the Nintendo store is sold out. The gamepad is far too uncomfortable and has a short battery life, and the Wii-mote has several frames of input lag...The only other option is the Wii U Pro controller but I have 13 years of muscle memory ingrained into the GC controller and it has the benefit of being WIRED. God damn. Thanks a lot Nintendo. I was going to play this through Christmas but I'll be gaming elsewhere now. Eugh.
Rummy Posted December 5, 2014 Author Posted December 5, 2014 You are conveniently ignoring several parties in the whole process to make the situation seem a lot simpler and one dimensional. If retailers will only accept 10k orders from you (despite you informing them quite passionately about how in touch you are with your fanbase), and you have a further 3 million copies on your hands, you then have to store them somewhere. That costs a lot of money, and the longer they stay in that storage, the higher the cost per unit. That cost needs to be passed onto the retailer, which means that as time passes the cost of your product for the consumer would in effect increase, reducing demand. That leaves retailers themselves storing your product, which again, increases costs. On the other side, manufacturers will want assurances regarding their business. They don't want to spend £100k getting their factory ready to make your product, only to be told that after they have made back £90k that they need to wind everything back down and just accept the loss. It's not ALL about the consumer, larger orders carry greater risk to all three levels, and there is a point (for all parties involved) where taking on additional risk out weighs the potential for reward. I understand that. It's all risk aversion. I'm not even disagreeing with it - I'm saying Nintendo should have known well enough to take and bear it. 10k to 3million is a conveniently extreme example for you to use to illustrate a point, but I'm not quite suggesting a 30,000% over manufacture as you are there. But ykno what they should do in future? Just make 10 single copies of the next Mario. That'll almost guarantee all stock will sell without any of the storage issues, and fuck anyone else who wanted it. Retailers don't have to store products - let them have what they want, and have storage setup for yourselves(as Nintendo will do, in something people call warehouses) and ensure you've got the product available that when the market, and subsequently the retailer, asks for more, you can get it to them. The manufacturer already got their factory ready to make the product - it's a absolutely unique product of at the moment. There is no alternative doing 100% the same job. You'll also typically pay a manufacturer BEFORE selling the product, because they are manufacturing it for you. You aren't pay them to sell your product off the shelves, or on futures. Their business is manufacture, if they fulfil it, they get their money. On the conditional front - set it out clear with a lead to allow for the possibility of production not being ongoing if demand is shit. It's isn't hard, and I suspect not unheard of, let alone unreasonable. I'd expect in fact it's quite common with new products. You're putting all the costs here on other parties - there isn't a need, Nintendo can take them. They're large enough, and as said not amateurs, that they can front and bear these. They're chosen not to, mostly, because they didn't feel it was worth it to them - which was a gross mis-estimation of the market imo. Wow, tough luck to those who have had orders cancelled!At the moment, at the bottom of the thread, I have an advert for shopto showing the adaptor and controller, which seems a bit cruel. Ha, my mate posted this to me shortly after I set a status...
dazzybee Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 If when Nintendo do something right they manage to fuck it up...
Pestneb Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 I understand that. It's all risk aversion. I'm not even disagreeing with it - I'm saying Nintendo should have known well enough to take and bear it. 10k to 3million is a conveniently extreme example for you to use to illustrate a point, but I'm not quite suggesting a 30,000% over manufacture as you are there. But ykno what they should do in future? Just make 10 single copies of the next Mario. That'll almost guarantee all stock will sell without any of the storage issues, and fuck anyone else who wanted it. Fine I take your point, if retailers did in a timely fashion place pre-orders for the cube adapter then it would have been stupid for Nintendo not to actually fulfill those orders. But equally, if retailers didn't place orders quickly enough then the onus should fall on them. I won't bother defending Nintendo because as I said, we don't know which way it fell. There's also the potential that Nintendo were let down themselves by their manufacturer. At this point my guess would be on the Nintendo/Manufacturer being the source as it seems this is a worldwide thing. Retailers don't have to store products - let them have what they want, and have storage setup for yourselves(as Nintendo will do, in something people call warehouses) and ensure you've got the product available that when the market, and subsequently the retailer, asks for more, you can get it to them. The warehouses aren't free though. I stated that in my reply. I am plucking numbers out of the air here, it is just the point I am making: If the space a cube adapter is sat in within the warehouse cost £10 over the time the adapter is there, that £10 has to be added on to the cost of the product. That means Nintendo either take a loss or pass on the cost to the retailer. The retailer is unlikely to take the added cost out of their profit margin (at least not entirely) so that cost will partially (or fully) be passed on to the consumer. That will drive down demand. It doesn't matter WHO has the product in a warehouse, just that it being in a warehouse is costing somebody, and that cost will be passed on. On top of that, the warehouse being full of GC adapters means less space for other products, which can mean they have to hire out more space. Ideally businesses strive to have items in warehouses for an absolute minimum of time, and that is best done by neither overstocking nor over pricing. The manufacturer already got their factory ready to make the product - it's a absolutely unique product of at the moment. There is no alternative doing 100% the same job. You'll also typically pay a manufacturer BEFORE selling the product, because they are manufacturing it for you. You aren't pay them to sell your product off the shelves, or on futures. Their business is manufacture, if they fulfil it, they get their money. On the conditional front - set it out clear with a lead to allow for the possibility of production not being ongoing if demand is shit. It's isn't hard, and I suspect not unheard of, let alone unreasonable. I'd expect in fact it's quite common with new products. the costs are dependent on the magnitude of the job. If one machine will produce 100k product in the required timescale, and they are asked for 500k, they obviously need to invest in 5 machines. If demand turns out to have only required 1 machine, the cost per adapter would be 5 times greater than it needed to be. It's not just a case of asking them to "make the single machine run 5 times faster please". You're putting all the costs here on other parties - there isn't a need, Nintendo can take them. They're large enough, and as said not amateurs, that they can front and bear these. They're chosen not to, mostly, because they didn't feel it was worth it to them - which was a gross mis-estimation of the market imo. There is a need - Nintendo don't have free warehouses, the costs are incurred and any cost incurred needs to be passed on to the next party along the line. Manufacturer-> Nintendo-> Retailer -> Consumer. Nintendo can't just tell a manufacturer "oh, make a new factory line for our GC adapter by tomorrow". Even the manufacturer might be reliant on other businesses, supplying raw products at the right price, actually creating the factory lines, work force willing to work for pay and conditions. But whatever
Rummy Posted December 5, 2014 Author Posted December 5, 2014 Fine I take your point, if retailers did in a timely fashion place pre-orders for the cube adapter then it would have been stupid for Nintendo not to actually fulfill those orders. But equally, if retailers didn't place orders quickly enough then the onus should fall on them. I won't bother defending Nintendo because as I said, we don't know which way it fell. There's also the potential that Nintendo were let down themselves by their manufacturer. At this point my guess would be on the Nintendo/Manufacturer being the source as it seems this is a worldwide thing. To their credit, at least for GAME, I hear they got stock exactly to meet their pre-orders. I don't know why amazon got shafted(did ANY amazon orderers get their bundles?) but GAME and I think ShopTo have a bit of a better reputation on delivering the sale, so they stock them up better too. The warehouses aren't free though. I stated that in my reply. I am plucking numbers out of the air here, it is just the point I am making:If the space a cube adapter is sat in within the warehouse cost £10 over the time the adapter is there, that £10 has to be added on to the cost of the product. That means Nintendo either take a loss or pass on the cost to the retailer. The retailer is unlikely to take the added cost out of their profit margin (at least not entirely) so that cost will partially (or fully) be passed on to the consumer. That will drive down demand. It doesn't matter WHO has the product in a warehouse, just that it being in a warehouse is costing somebody, and that cost will be passed on. On top of that, the warehouse being full of GC adapters means less space for other products, which can mean they have to hire out more space. Ideally businesses strive to have items in warehouses for an absolute minimum of time, and that is best done by neither overstocking nor over pricing. They aren't free? Do you know that?? Owned/leased - they have them, it's all about how full they are as you say. Now any sensible business should get something to meet needs, but again I'm not saying simply overproduce and get confused - build it into the plan. Look at it in advance, think what space you have, and account for storage space if needed. You talk about passing on the cost - when has a product ever gone up in price because it isn't selling? It simply just doesn't happen. If anything they drop costs to meet shift the product and avoid storage costs(which yes, would be a cost to Nintendo, but I'm saying it's a risk and they should have taken it). What do you think happened with the WiiU? They misjudged there and hugely overmanufactured - but it didn't up the price, Nintendo had to absorb the cost and figure out what they'd do to sort it out. I'm not denying the risk of it, but I'm saying if they looked properly at their market I don't think it would have been an unworthy one. As for production, do you honestly believe in the history of this and other business nobody has ever said 'Right, I need 10k of B by C, but if it does well then I'm likely gonna need 100k of B by Z, can you handle that?' - the more they do, the more money they make(as profit is likely linked to quantity). It's the same as getting a workman in your house, him doing a good job, and you giving him more work rather than going to someone else. It's really basic business - everyone's after it and will do a job to get it. Add in a 'I'll give you £X for a retainer' as an incentive and bam. the costs are dependent on the magnitude of the job. If one machine will produce 100k product in the required timescale, and they are asked for 500k, they obviously need to invest in 5 machines. If demand turns out to have only required 1 machine, the cost per adapter would be 5 times greater than it needed to be. It's not just a case of asking them to "make the single machine run 5 times faster please". As above. Though you put it all down to machines of sorts - there's no 'GC adapter' machine, so it's more fluid than that. Again, build it into the plan and work towards the potential - it's positive risk taking of sorts. Also 'make a single machine run 5 times faster' isn't quite possible - but if the machine is running 4 hours a day, how about we make it so we run it 12 hours a day to meet demand, instead? They aren't 24/7, and so there's room for extra work. There is a need - Nintendo don't have free warehouses, the costs are incurred and any cost incurred needs to be passed on to the next party along the line. Manufacturer-> Nintendo-> Retailer -> Consumer. Nintendo can't just tell a manufacturer "oh, make a new factory line for our GC adapter by tomorrow". Even the manufacturer might be reliant on other businesses, supplying raw products at the right price, actually creating the factory lines, work force willing to work for pay and conditions. But whatever Again, how do you know they don't have free warehouses? And why does the extra cost need to be passed on to the next party? Absorb them, or some, maybe pass on 10% etc - honestly if all these unexpected costs were always passed down the line and indeed eventualy to the consumer, we would have no stability in market prices - which we do. I'm also not saying they should be 'make a new line by tomorrow' I'm saying they should have had prospective thought to build contingencies into the plan in the event of increased demand. If you only ever, ever, worked to exactly predicted forces you will be out of business very quickly. The wiggle room is needed, and in this case I think they should have really accounted for not only much more wiggle room, but also a much greater baseline.
Pestneb Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Again, how do you know they don't have free warehouses? And why does the extra cost need to be passed on to the next party? to avoid repeating myself.. I'll quote myself As we don't know all the facts of the situation we can't really in a level headed manner lay blame fully on one party or the other. Well you want to go down this route, some warehouses cost monies! I'll leave the thread now though, I misunderstood the purpose of the thread a bit I think, sorry you guys are upset that you didn't get those adapters, and I hope Nintendo manage to get some to you guys sooner than later.. assuming you guys find it in your hearts to forgive them : peace:
Rummy Posted December 5, 2014 Author Posted December 5, 2014 Fair enough @Pestneb - I can certainly see us going round on the topic, but I respect your input and the discussion. I kinda created the thread to have it, though I guess I didn't want to get as caught up as this generally. It's absolutely true we don't have the facts, and I think the problem is we never do due to a lack of Nintendo's transparency(whereas some will argue the competition have been more engaging). Hope nothing of this sours an opinion of me, I'm just talking as I see it(right or wrong) and as said got a good respect for you. Hope we manage to Smash online at some point!
Mandalore Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Why did no 3rd party make their own controller adaptor? Or why didn't Nintendo let them?
DuD Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 @Rummy, have you checked your Flubit demand recently? I've just logged in to get the order number ready to send them an email and it says my item is dispatched??
Rummy Posted December 5, 2014 Author Posted December 5, 2014 @Rummy, have you checked your Flubit demand recently?I've just logged in to get the order number ready to send them an email and it says my item is dispatched?? Y U DO DIS?!?!?! Mine still says awaiting dispatched, maybe they sourced yours elsewhere or maybe they hate me for kicking up an early fuss
yesteryeargames Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 I am sure lots of stock will start to come in by February , will anyone care about smash by them that's the question ? Nintendo really know how to screw things up . They can print money for an item that probably costs about £3 to make
Goron_3 Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 Spoke to someone at GAME about this today and he said his manager had informed them that they won't get anymore in stock until January/February.
yesteryeargames Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Does anyone have a gamecube adapter they don't want ? I will pay £40 Let down by Amazon , Please pm me thanks
Rummy Posted December 7, 2014 Author Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) I am sure lots of stock will start to come in by February , will anyone care about smash by them that's the question ? Nintendo really know how to screw things up . They can print money for an item that probably costs about £3 to make Spoke to someone at GAME about this today and he said his manager had informed them that they won't get anymore in stock until January/February. Exactly my kind of concerns, especially given there's no doubt people similar to those on here close to jumping to the PS4/XB1 ship. I'm hoping bundles'll be up by January, but you just don't know with Nintendo right now. My other very big concern is going to be that of scalpers trying to make a quick buck on it now too. Some people are going to do it, and that's gonna fuck up some poor folks's gaming(probably mine -.-) Edited December 7, 2014 by Rummy
liger05 Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Cant believe this adaptor stock issue. Luckily my pre-order via amazon was fulfilled even though I have no GC pad (not sure where they are). Nintendo really do know how to create there own fcuk ups.
Debug Mode Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) Apparently more retailers are saying the adapter is discontinued as well as the couple Amiibo. Nintendo is stupidly out of touch, but I have trouble believing they are this crazy to discontinue such a popular product. Not even used mine yet, so this can only be beneficial to me ifI decide to sell it. EDIT: Amazon Japan claiming to have new stock on the 22nd Edited December 7, 2014 by Debug Mode
yesteryeargames Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Apparently more retailers are saying the adapter is discontinued as well as the couple Amiibo. Nintendo is stupidly out of touch, but I have trouble believing they are this crazy to discontinue such a popular product. Not even used mine yet, so this can only be beneficial to me ifI decide to sell it. EDIT: Amazon Japan claiming to have new stock on the 22nd If you do decide I can offer £45 total
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