Wii U General Discussion

[Wii]

What Adleman says about third parties has truth to it but I think third party games flopping on Nintendo platforms is more down to Nintendo not cultivating an audience which is receptive to the genre of games third parties produce.

 

As said it's a combination of reasons. Some won't buy the console because there are no 3rd party games, developers won't make games because nobody will buy the console. It's the chicken/egg scenario. Nintendo have a whole host of problems, some they can fix more easily and others that I think at this stage will need generations to eradicate.

 

To say there's no audience receptive to genres of games is not true. Take FIFA 13 for example. It was a joke of a game and a lazy effort when it released 2 years ago, yet despite that still to this day it places highly on the Wii U specific chart every week. Sure it's cheap but if EA gave us a proper version it'd sell even better. There's always a market for football games.

[Ashley]

 

'There are two other problems that come to mind. First, at the risk of sounding ageist, because of the hierarchical nature of Japanese companies, it winds up being that the most senior executives at the company cut their teeth during NES and Super NES days and do not really understand modern gaming, so adopting things like online gaming, account systems, friends lists, as well as understanding the rise of PC gaming has been very slow. Ideas often get shut down prematurely just because some people with the power to veto an idea simply don’t understand it.

 

 

Sounds like my work at times. Depressing.

[Dcubed]

Good interview, Dan is really very frank and also level headed.

 

Nintendo evolves at a glacial pace (that's not always a bad thing mind you, it is what has allowed them to continue to focus on quality over all else and the long term over the short term after all!) and really could stand to bring down some layers of buerocracy.

 

And they simply don't invest enough into the 3rd parties that do actually support them (how they still don't have a Sony Pub Fund style scheme in place, when they're so desperate for support, is beyond me!). He's also right when he speaks of the lack of major 3rd parties as a Chicken And The Egg scenario.

 

But chasing the likes of Take Two and EA is largely pointless. A head on battle with MS and Sony is simply a battle that Nintendo cannot win. What they should be doing is funding and absorbing the risk of those other smaller indie companies who are willing to make games that take full advantage of their hardware and the occasional exclusive from Japanese or smaller Western 3rd parties.

 

But either way, do read that interview! It's really good! (and listen to what he says about the Virtual Console! Quality emulation takes time people!)

[Serebii]

But chasing the likes of Take Two and EA is largely pointless. A head on battle with MS and Sony is simply a battle that Nintendo cannot win. What they should be doing is funding and absorbing the risk of those other smaller indie companies who are willing to make games that take full advantage of their hardware and the occasional exclusive from Japanese or smaller Western 3rd parties.

 

I couldn't agree more with this paragraph.

[Hero-of-Time]

The thing is, unless Nintendo can strike gold again, they will need the likes of EA and Take Two. Just look at the best selling games in the UK last year, most of them were 3rd party games which weren't on the Wii U. Whether people on here like these games or not these are the ones that are selling consoles.

 

I agree they should be investing in smaller studios as well. Sony have done a fantastic job in helping indies get games on their platform and it has paid off massively.

 

Western support is needed to be a sales success. Japan is no longer the powerhouse in games development and hasn't been since the last generation. A power shift happened and Nintendo could do with some western studios creating some games with western appeal, just like the N64 era.

 

I think this is why so many were bummed out to see Retro Studios making DKC games. The Wii U already had platformers and with Nintendo finally having a HD console Retro could have entered the arena with a bang rather than a whimper.

[Ramar]

The thing is, unless Nintendo can strike gold again, they will need the likes of EA and Take Two. Just look at the best selling games in the UK last year, most of them were 3rd party games which weren't on the Wii U. Whether people on here like these games or not these are the ones that are selling consoles.

 

For me that is completely not the way Nintendo should go. Say for their next console, Nitendo heavily invests in getting FIFA and CoD onside, their fans are already deeply routed in Xbox and Playstation branding, they won't flock to Nintendo. They're gone. They'll be the spotty kids who think Nintendo is the kids machine and the games they play are the big boys toys.

 

What Nintendo need is along the lines of what @Dcubed said. Investment in indie companies and small studios making quality software. And they need to capture the next generation of consumers.

[Dcubed]

The thing is, unless Nintendo can strike gold again, they will need the likes of EA and Take Two. Just look at the best selling games in the UK last year, most of them were 3rd party games which weren't on the Wii U. Whether people on here like these games or not these are the ones that are selling consoles.

 

I agree they should be investing in smaller studios as well. Sony have done a fantastic job in helping indies get games on their platform and it has paid off massively.

 

Western support is needed to be a sales success. Japan is no longer the powerhouse in games development and hasn't been since the last generation. A power shift happened and Nintendo could do with some western studios creating some games with western appeal, just like the N64 era.

 

I think this is why so many were bummed out to see Retro Studios making DKC games. The Wii U already had platformers and with Nintendo finally having a HD console Retro could have entered the arena with a bang rather than a whimper.

 

Then they need to strike gold again, because chasing the EAs and Take Twos of this world is a lost cause.

 

They represent the very opposite of what Nintendo is about and will never throw their support behind them properly. Likewise, this audience is fully entenched in the Xbox/Playstation ecosystem; brands which have had decades of expertly crafted KGOY marketing/branding aimed directly at the 10-25 male audience. An audience that is simply not going to ever move over to a "kiddy" toy maker.

 

Nintendo have to continue to forge their own path but actually properly support the developers who are actually willing to follow them!

Edited January 21, 2015 by Dcubed

[somme]

We don't even need to play Mario anymore. He can teach himself how to save the Princess.

 

[dazzybee]

It's such a difficult position for Nintendo. They make the best games, they have some decent indie exclusives, some 3rd party. I he exclusives, it isn't working. Sony and MSs way IS working...

 

I sort of feel they do need to compete.

 

Or serious,y temp u production of unique titles but provide alternatives to those huge games people love. So create a Nintendo sports label, get developers to make their serious racer, their open world games etc.

 

If they want to be successful they have to change something, not just increase what they're already doing. U less they're happy not selling 50+ million and just selling shit loads of software. Personally I'd be happy with this, I love Nintendo games, making more is good news to me. But just think as a business they have to change. And I think they will, I think they will start to compete technically and with their services.

[liger05]

But chasing the likes of Take Two and EA is largely pointless. A head on battle with MS and Sony is simply a battle that Nintendo cannot win. What they should be doing is funding and absorbing the risk of those other smaller indie companies who are willing to make games that take full advantage of their hardware and the occasional exclusive from Japanese or smaller Western 3rd parties

 

Extremely defeatist. Nintendo do not need to be #1 they just need to compete. The idea that a video company with such amazing software teams, money in the bank and a history unrivalled by its competitors cannot meet a challenge is ridiculous.

 

If one was to say Nintendo cannot compete in the handheld space vs Sony one would say that's absurd yet when it comes to consoles it's a different matter?

 

Nintendo could get work with Western studios to make the same kind of games EA, Take Two, Ubisoft, Rockstar etc make but they choose not too. That's all on Nintendo.

 

When Nintendo say the likes of Google and Amazon are there competitors and not Sony or MS you have to wonder what's going on?

 

Nintendo are giving up and it's sad to see.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

Extremely defeatist. Nintendo do not need to be #1 they just need to compete. The idea that a video company with such amazing software teams, money in the bank and a history unrivalled by its competitors cannot meet a challenge is ridiculous.

 

If one was to say Nintendo cannot compete in the handheld space vs Sony one would say that's absurd yet when it comes to consoles it's a different matter?

 

Nintendo could get work with Western studios to make the same kind of games EA, Take Two, Ubisoft, Rockstar etc make but they choose not too. That's all on Nintendo.

 

When Nintendo say the likes of Google and Amazon are there competitors and not Sony or MS you have to wonder what's going on?

 

Nintendo are giving up and it's sad to see.

 

But Nintendo aren't giving up.

 

Surely from their point of view they tried to compete with PS2 and Xbox with the GameCube and failed miserably, yet went in a completely different direction with Wii and hit absolute gold dust with it.

 

Nintendo didn't decide this, the consumer decided this, who bought the console in droves and the console transcended the industry.

 

If anything they've made a mistake, sales and finance wise, of trying to appease both sets of consumers with the U. Again, we the consumer have showed them that if they produce a powerful machine (don't care what anyone says, producing the same image on TV and Game Pad in HD requires a lot of power) we won't buy it.

 

So next console, it may be as powerful as X1 and PS4 are now (and at that time maybe similar to a Wii U comparisons to 360/PS3 now) but I'd bet they go for the casual gamer again, who actually bought their product not that long ago.

 

Playing devils advocate a bit here, but hopefully my point comes across

[Wii]

Koei Tecmo VP elaborates on Mario Warriors dream project, Masuda open to Pokemon Warriors spin-off

 

The following comes from Koei Tecmo Executive Vice President Hisashi Koinuma...

 

- thinks the Mario idea could actually work

- sees Mario as a character that would need to branch out from hand-to-hand combat

- game could focus on his distinctive moves

- Mario could "blast enemies off the screen or knock them unconscious"

- game would be balanced so the kids could enjoy it as their first action game experience

- adults could enjoy the game with friends and families as a group

 

The following comes from Pokemon Producer Junichi Masuda

 

- open to a Warriors spin-off game if it wasn't too violent

- could work if the player threw out a lot of Pokeballs

- would need a new form of gameplay so as to not feel too familiar

 

http://www.gonintendo.com/s/245654-koei-tecmo-vp-elaborates-on-mario-warriors-dream-project-masuda-open-to-pokemon-warriors-spin-off

 

http://www.polygon.com/a/life-in-japan/Musou-Zelda-Mario

 

I don't know about Mario, wouldn't be a fan of kiddifying it. Something like Fire Emblem would lend itself far better, it has the cast and the weapons, plus it would get people skeptical of turn based games interested in the franchise and might turn them into fans.

[Serebii]

Funny thing is that the Pokémon Company already said no to a Pokémon Warriors spin-off

 

It's such a difficult position for Nintendo. They make the best games, they have some decent indie exclusives, some 3rd party. I he exclusives, it isn't working. Sony and MSs way IS working...

 

I sort of feel they do need to compete.

 

Or serious,y temp u production of unique titles but provide alternatives to those huge games people love. So create a Nintendo sports label, get developers to make their serious racer, their open world games etc.

 

If they want to be successful they have to change something, not just increase what they're already doing. U less they're happy not selling 50+ million and just selling shit loads of software. Personally I'd be happy with this, I love Nintendo games, making more is good news to me. But just think as a business they have to change. And I think they will, I think they will start to compete technically and with their services.

Issue is, to "compete" on the same level as MS and Sony, they need to throw a lot of money at it. MS and Sony go with severely lossleading hardware (not as much this gen though) and Nintendo can't do that for a protracted length of time. They don't have the other divisions to hold the fort while they build the audience in order to make the money back. It is no coincidence that their first financial loss came when they had to sell the 3DS at a loss and it seriously took off at that price. Then the Wii U came at a loss. Now, both bits of hardware are not at a loss and low & behold, they're back in the black, despite being "failing". This is part of why Nintendo is expanding to include QoL and other avenues, to help build the company so it's always fiscally solid, even if they have to absorb a loss again. Just because they have lots of money in the bank doesn't mean they can just burn it by taking a huge loss. It's more logical for them to use it the way they are, in investing in expansion

 

For Nintendo to get exclusive content from these big EA/RockStar titles, they would have to throw the sort of money that's the equivalent of their development costs for 2 big games alone at it, and even then that's no guarantee it'd pay off due to the audiences not being that. @Dcubed is absolutely correct in what they have to do.

 

I do agree that they need to get their own sports label again though, but the name is what sells the other ones. It's highly unlikely that FIFA would sell as well as it does if not for the FIFA label

Edited January 22, 2015 by Serebii
Automerged Doublepost

[liger05]

But Nintendo aren't giving up.

 

Surely from their point of view they tried to compete with PS2 and Xbox with the GameCube and failed miserably, yet went in a completely different direction with Wii and hit absolute gold dust with it.

 

Nintendo didn't decide this, the consumer decided this, who bought the console in droves and the console transcended the industry.

 

If anything they've made a mistake, sales and finance wise, of trying to appease both sets of consumers with the U. Again, we the consumer have showed them that if they produce a powerful machine (don't care what anyone says, producing the same image on TV and Game Pad in HD requires a lot of power) we won't buy it.

 

So next console, it may be as powerful as X1 and PS4 are now (and at that time maybe similar to a Wii U comparisons to 360/PS3 now) but I'd bet they go for the casual gamer again, who actually bought their product not that long ago.

 

Playing devils advocate a bit here, but hopefully my point comes across

 

The wii u isn't a powerful console. What they produced was a console which was barely any more powerful than consoles released 7 years earlier. Why are core gamers going to be interested in a console like that?

 

The casual audience is a fickle one and Nintendo like the others should try to get them in but not as the target demographic.

 

It's not even just about power it's also about services and that's an area Nintendo are well behind on.

 

The GC failed for numerous reasons and power wasn't one of them.

[Serebii]

The wii u isn't a powerful console. What they produced was a console which was barely any more powerful than consoles released 7 years earlier. Why are core gamers going to be interested in a console like that?

 

Because this industry should be about the quality of games, not who has the biggest specs.

[Hero-of-Time]

For me that is completely not the way Nintendo should go. Say for their next console, Nitendo heavily invests in getting FIFA and CoD onside, their fans are already deeply routed in Xbox and Playstation branding, they won't flock to Nintendo. They're gone. They'll be the spotty kids who think Nintendo is the kids machine and the games they play are the big boys toys.

 

I used to think like this but this generation has shown it's not that simple. The 360 was a leader last gen for the types of gamers you describe but this generation many have switched to the PS4, as seen by the sales figures. You just have to look at our own forum to see this situation repeated.

 

If the console is well priced, well advertised, well supported and well connected then people will flock to it. Once one person buys it then a snowball effect starts to happen as more and more people want to play with their friends and be connected. This is another issue with the Wii U in that you don't feel as connected to people on your friends list as you do on the other machines.

 

But Nintendo aren't giving up.

 

Surely from their point of view they tried to compete with PS2 and Xbox with the GameCube and failed miserably, yet went in a completely different direction with Wii and hit absolute gold dust with it.

 

The GameCube failed for many reasons ( look of the machine, no dvd player, very late to the party etc. ) but power wasn't one of them.

 

Nintendo didn't decide this, the consumer decided this, who bought the console in droves and the console transcended the industry.

 

If anything they've made a mistake, sales and finance wise, of trying to appease both sets of consumers with the U. Again, we the consumer have showed them that if they produce a powerful machine (don't care what anyone says, producing the same image on TV and Game Pad in HD requires a lot of power) we won't buy it.

 

So next console, it may be as powerful as X1 and PS4 are now (and at that time maybe similar to a Wii U comparisons to 360/PS3 now) but I'd bet they go for the casual gamer again, who actually bought their product not that long ago.

 

The Wii U not selling was due to Nintendo ignorance and incompetence. They should never had targeted the casual market as it was long gone. Many of us on here even seen this happen in the twilight years of the Wii, yet Nintendo still try tried to target them. Even Iwata has stated that the casual market is fickle. For all the money the Wii made them, the brand has probably done more damage than good in the long run.

 

I love Nintendo games and as a company they will always have a special place in my gaming heart. This being the case I want them to succeed but I just don't see it happening unless you get big western developers on board.

 

The Wii U has shown that you can have some of the best and highest scoring games on the console but if you don't have the support of others then it's gonna to fail commercially.

 

I don't like bringing up the other consoles in here much due to the fanboy wars that break out but so far, this generation Sony have shown you can do it all and be successful. They released a powerful machine, didn't cost much to make ( I think they gain a profit for each machine sold now ), catered to the masses with 3rd party support, got indie developers on board and supported and promoted them, got a bunch of online features right and have a constant feed of games being released.

 

The indie point is a good one because Nintendo were supposed to be making an effort with these guys but it just hasn't come off. Look at the amount of indies that have supported the other 2 ( especially the PS4/Vita ) in comparison to the Wii U.

 

Last year the Radio Free Nintendo guys were at E3 and were saying how little a push Nintendo were giving to the indies compared to the other two. In the Sony camp the indie booths were front and centre, whereas what little indies were at Nintendo, were often just stuck in the corner somewhere.

 

Because this industry should be about the quality of games, not who has the biggest specs.

 

I agree it should be about the quality of the games and there was a time when that was the case. Sadly, not that simple anymore though.

 

To be fair specs aren't the big factor here either. Social interaction is a huge part of gaming now and plays a big part in what people will play and buy.

[Serebii]

I agree it should be about the quality of the games and there was a time when that was the case. Sadly, not that simple anymore though.

 

To be fair specs aren't the big factor here either. Social interaction is a huge part of gaming now and plays a big part in what people will play and buy.

 

Nintendo have really been pushing social interaction with the Wii U, though.

[Hero-of-Time]

Nintendo have really been pushing social interaction with the Wii U, though.

 

The thing is, it's baby steps.

 

The other 2 have links with Facebook and the like, and the ability to stream your games to Twitch, which has become a very popular thing. Not to be that guy but voice/chat party is still absent from the machine, as is a decent messaging system.

 

Miiverse is a great way to show what you're playing and record your progress. If fleshed out it could be something very special. However, the console should have this as well as the other stuff, not one or the other.

[Dcubed]

I used to think like this but this generation has shown it's not that simple. The 360 was a leader last gen for the types of gamers you describe but this generation many have switched to the PS4, as seen by the sales figures. You just have to look at our own forum to see this situation repeated.

 

If the console is well priced, well advertised, well supported and well connected then people will flock to it. Once one person buys it then a snowball effect starts to happen as more and more people want to play with their friends and be connected. This is another issue with the Wii U in that you don't feel as connected to people on your friends list as you do on the other machines.

 

What you don't seem to realise here is that the Xbox and Playstation brands are largely interchangable. They target the same audience and both consoles are basically identical outside of some reletively small things, so of course they can substitute for each other. Nintendo's consoles and brand however are like kryptonite to this audience, so they would not go within 10 miles of a Nintendo console, even if both the PS4 and Xbone had the original Xbone DRM and Nintendo offered free online and blowjobs with every purchase.

 

If you're suggesting that Nintendo can suddenly undo the spell of 20+ years of competitor branding, undo all of their entire 35+ year history of "family friendly" branding as a games maker and steal away that massively socially concious audience that wouldn't be caught dead with "kid's toys" overnight, then congratulations! You are saying that Nintendo houses the greatest marketing & branding team who ever lived (and we all know that's definately not the case )

 

You are asking for the impossible here. Nintendo's branding is just completely incompatible with this audience.

 

The GameCube failed for many reasons ( look of the machine, no dvd player, very late to the party etc. ) but power wasn't one of them.

 

Correct. You know what was the biggest problem? The branding, it carries far too much baggage; what with Gamecube being labelled "The Kiddy Console" that should be glaringly obvious.

 

The Wii U not selling was due to Nintendo ignorance and incompetence. They should never had targeted the casual market as it was long gone. Many of us on here even seen this happen in the twilight years of the Wii, yet Nintendo still try tried to target them. Even Iwata has stated that the casual market is fickle. For all the money the Wii made them, the brand has probably done more damage than good in the long run.

 

If Nintendo didn't switch focus back with the Wii, they would be out of the market completely by now. It was a necessary move. The alternative would leave them high and dry with an even more expensive console, with even higher development costs and an even smaller audience.

 

I love Nintendo games and as a company they will always have a special place in my gaming heart. This being the case I want them to succeed but I just don't see it happening unless you get big western developers on board.

 

The Wii U has shown that you can have some of the best and highest scoring games on the console but if you don't have the support of others then it's gonna to fail commercially.

 

I don't like bringing up the other consoles in here much due to the fanboy wars that break out but so far, this generation Sony have shown you can do it all and be successful. They released a powerful machine, didn't cost much to make ( I think they gain a profit for each machine sold now ), catered to the masses with 3rd party support, got indie developers on board and supported and promoted them, got a bunch of online features right and have a constant feed of games being released.

 

The indie point is a good one because Nintendo were supposed to be making an effort with these guys but it just hasn't come off. Look at the amount of indies that have supported the other 2 ( especially the PS4/Vita ) in comparison to the Wii U.

 

Last year the Radio Free Nintendo guys were at E3 and were saying how little a push Nintendo were giving to the indies compared to the other two. In the Sony camp the indie booths were front and centre, whereas what little indies were at Nintendo, were often just stuck in the corner somewhere.

 

What they should be doing is bolstering their efforts in courting small independent developers and help build them up to become the next set of powerhouse studios. Now, that's not to say that they haven't already come a long way already, but they could and should be doing a lot more.

 

There's no reason why they cant build up the likes of Wayforward into the next Retro Studios, or gather up the staff who split from Rare and help rebuild that studio into the powerhouse it once was. They should be laying a bigger foundation for the future through supporting the "indie scene" via directly funding these studios, because they're simply never going to garner the support of the big western publishers.

 

Instead of trying to chase a waining giant like COD, they should be looking for the next Minecraft instead!

 

Get these games out at retail too!

[Hero-of-Time]

What you don't seem to realise here is that the Xbox and Playstation brands are largely interchangable. They target the same audience and both consoles are basically identical outside of some reletively small things, so of course they can substitute for each other. Nintendo's consoles and brand however are like kryptonite to this audience, so they would not go within 10 miles of a Nintendo console, even if both the PS4 and Xbone had the original Xbone DRM and Nintendo offered free online and blowjobs with every purchase.

 

If you're suggesting that Nintendo can suddenly undo the spell of 20+ years of competitor branding, undo all of their entire 35+ year history of "family friendly" branding as a games maker and steal away that massively socially concious audience that wouldn't be caught dead with "kid's toys" overnight, then congratulations! You are saying that Nintendo houses the greatest marketing & branding team who ever lived (and we all know that's definately not the case )

 

You are asking for the impossible here. Nintendo's branding is just completely incompatible with this audience.

 

The N64 showed that Nintendo can capture a mature audience if they are targeted correctly. That console was the home of shooters that generation. Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Turok, Jet Force Gemini. It also had good sports titles in ISS and the WWE games, which were far better than the PSOne counterparts.

 

I believe any company can change their image if they want to. Is it easy? Not at all but it certainly can be done. Apple is a fine example of this. With the right marketing and messaging you can gain back marketshare.

 

A big question is, do Nintendo actually want to change and do they want this part of the market? Personally I don't think they do on both accounts. Which makes it frustrating as a gamer because you are then forced to buy another machine to get these types of games.

 

I agree the marketing team Nintendo have is dire and quite frankly should be fired for the job they have done.

[Serebii]

I remember when I was showing ZombiU to a friend. He asked "Why is this on a Nintendo console? That's for kids".

 

It's impossible to shake that image in our age group now

[Dcubed]

The N64 showed that Nintendo can capture a mature audience if they are targeted correctly. That console was the home of shooters that generation. Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Turok, Jet Force Gemini. It also had good sports titles in ISS and the WWE games, which were far better than the PSOne counterparts.

 

I believe any company can change their image if they want to. Is it easy? Not at all but it certainly can be done. Apple is a fine example of this. With the right marketing and messaging you can gain back marketshare.

 

A big question is, do Nintendo actually want to change and do they want this part of the market? Personally I don't think they do on both accounts. Which makes it frustrating as a gamer because you are then forced to buy another machine to get these types of games.

 

I agree the marketing team Nintendo have is dire and quite frankly should be fired for the job they have done.

 

The N64 is near enough 19 years old. That era is long gone and it is not coming back.

 

At some point it becomes virtually impossible to "salvage" a brand in the minds of certain audiences. It's actually much easier to start again with a completely fresh one, like what Disney did with Touchstone.

 

Saying that though, you have to ask yourself if it's really worth it. How much money do Sony and MS really make on their consoles? The answer is actually not a lot really; in fact, MS have lost far more money than they've made on the Xbox brand as a whole and Sony wiped out all of their profit made on PS1 and PS2 throughout the PS3 era. What makes it worth it to these companies is that it serves their wider interests as a whole (Blu-ray, Windows etc).

 

Nintendo however has nothing other than games (at least, until QoL arrives that is!), so it's simply not worth it to get back into this money pit battle over a shrinking pie that MS and Sony are at each other's throats for.

 

Besides, it's not what they want to do anyway. They just want to be able to make the games and products that they want to make, while making a healthy profit that offers them the security to carry on comfortably doing what they want to do. Chasing the dudebro dragon isn't in their DNA and it's a losing battle in the end, even if they somehow pulled off the greatest marketing and branding miracle ever devised by man. It just isn't worth it.

[Serebii]

Saying that though, you have to ask yourself if it's really worth it. How much money do Sony and MS really make on their consoles? The answer is actually not a lot really; in fact, MS have lost far more money than they've made on the Xbox brand as a whole and Sony wiped out all of their profit made on PS1 and PS2 throughout the PS3 era. What makes it worth it to these companies is that it serves their wider interests as a whole (Blu-ray, Windows etc).

 

Been agreeing with you so much lately. People don't seem to notice this. Sure, the PS3 and Xbox 360 sold ~80m a piece, but considering the amount they sold, their bottomline has been absolutely horrendous. PS2 even didn't do as much money as it should have, being the best selling video game device of all time.

 

I've been saying all the time that Nintendo just cannot compete with the raw money Sony and MS are capable of throwing at it. Hell, many Microsoft executives want rid of the Xbox Division because of how much money it sinks compared to brings in. It gets their name out there, sure, but it doesn't make financial sense. There's no way in hell MS or Sony would be doing what they are now if they were like Nintendo and JUST a games company.

[Hero-of-Time]

The N64 is near enough 19 years old. That era is long gone and it is not coming back.

 

At some point it becomes virtually impossible to "salvage" a brand in the minds of certain audiences. It's actually much easier to start again with a completely fresh one, like what Disney did with Touchstone.

 

Saying that though, you have to ask yourself if it's really worth it. How much money do Sony and MS really make on their consoles? The answer is actually not a lot really; in fact, MS have lost far more money than they've made on the Xbox brand as a whole and Sony wiped out all of their profit made on PS1 and PS2 throughout the PS3 era. What makes it worth it to these companies is that it serves their wider interests as a whole (Blu-ray, Windows etc).

 

Nintendo however has nothing other than games (at least, until QoL arrives that is!), so it's simply not worth it to get back into this money pit battle over a shrinking pie that MS and Sony are at each other's throats for.

 

Besides, it's not what they want to do anyway. They just want to be able to make the games and products that they want to make, while making a healthy profit that offers them the security to carry on comfortably doing what they want to do. Chasing the dudebro dragon isn't in their DNA and it's a losing battle in the end, even if they somehow pulled off the greatest marketing and branding miracle ever devised by man. It just isn't worth it.

 

I disagree with some of this. Clearly we don't see eye to eye on the issue so i'll just leave it at that as I don't want clog the thread up.

 

It's a case of agreeing to disagree.

[dazzybee]

Gamecube not using normal disks, the kiddy look were two huge things that didn't help. Nintendo have always had SOMETHING to put 3rd parties and people off since Sony came into the fold. Why not try and go toe to toe? It'll work better than their current method. They release a new console next year matching PS4 and XB1 it'll be much cheaper to produce and not loss leading so that isn't an argument.

 

The casuals are GONE!!!! And for as long as their are dedicated consoles, they won't return. What's left are people who really want to play the biggest games. And hopefully the best games but sometimes I feel that's less important. The only way to truly compete is not have hardware which is very old. If a company released a phone that was the same tech as phones even 3 years ago, whatever features it had it would fail. People who buy tech, want the latest tech. Nintendo need to learn this. Along with marketing, social and online services, tie people into the nintendo ecosystem with accounts/loyalty/flexible ownership of digital products, and software which appeals to a wider demographic.