adam & steve

[Pestneb]

To address a few of the issues (with the least on topic one first);

 

I find christian extremists more threatening/scary than any other religious exteremists, but thats a different topic.

 

 

different topic perhaps, but just thinking, could someone define christian extremists, because they're getting a bashing, and I'm thinking my definition of them differs to most people on here...

 

a bit more on topic.

 

I think its very important for a child to have good role models, both male and female.

is it better to have a bad father/mother, or to have no father/mother though?

I'd say it would be better to have no mother/father, and to have a good male/female role model, preferably a relation (grandparents/aunt or uncle/mothers or fathers partner) otherwise a family friend.

[Haver]

Do you know what happens in Iran? That my friend is scary. I find your views very perplexing.

 

Yeah - they kill young homosexuals because of their sexuality. Nothing so brutal happens in Western, Christian civilisations, of course.

 

different topic perhaps, but just thinking, could someone define christian extremists, because they're getting a bashing, and I'm thinking my definition of them differs to most people on here...

 

As Wikipedia states, 'in general colloquial speech it is used pejoratively as an umbrella term to cover Fundamentalist Christianity'.

 

However, the line between Christian Fundamentalism and Christian Extremism is blurred. One school of thought places Christian movements that resort to violent tactics under the label of terrorists. The bombing of abortion clinics and killing of doctors involved in abortions is a notable example of Christian terrorism. Those that involve themselves in political campaigns to, for example, remove the separation of church and state in countries like the United States, outlaw abortion, premarital sex, gay marriage or reduce gay rights, are often more widely considered fundamentalists.

 

I certainly use 'extremism' as an umbrella term.

 

Also, to commemorate my triple post, in reference to the 'Political Correctness' thread:

 

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1671556,00.html

[dukkadukka]

As for the children thing i agree with both gaggle64 and mario 114, i mean yeah it is societies fault (that's the part i agree with from you gaggle), but i'm with mario with more or less the rest, you can't do anything about societites views its one of those intangible things in the world that we have no power over...oh well.

but surely it can be changed over time? 50 years ago if you told people about gay marriage they'd laugh at you, then probably kill you.

[mike-zim]

good article. as i was the 1 who posted the PC thread i will be the first to say i agree 100%. but the fact that the "ethnics" dont pass these laws does not mean they do not exist. they are still there and they are rediculouse.

 

i hope more "ethnics" speak up aswell and put an end to the over the top political correctness.

 

back on topic now though.

[Ashley]

Well back to christian extremists; my opinion is based upon my experiences and insights (by that I mean what I read/hear about on the news and such rather then personal experiences) so I obviously don't know everything that goes on, nobody does. But to me it seems that Muslim Extremists (and others say) tend to do suicidal bombings and all that stuff thats often talked about because they feel they are doing it for the good of their family and such. They feel they have sinned and feel that suicide bombings will rectify this (in their opinion).

 

Christian Extremists in my experience tend to just be out after anyone they dislike; be they Pagen, Gay or whatever. I could find examples but I'm making a christmas present and that. Just wanted to explain my opinion.

[Platty]

Christian Extremists are nothing compared to a lot of other Religious extremist groups. I dont understand how you can find them the most threatening with many other groups around the world participating in some ancient, inhumane practices.

 

anyway as for the gay marriage thing. Im unsure about it. Ive got nothing against Gay's infact an old college mate of mine was gay and we didnt have a problem with him except for the fact we called him "batty" which he didnt mind.

 

But yeah the whole getting married thing i dunno, it just doesnt seem right, but meh.

[dukkadukka]

the one thing that all religious extremists have in common is that they manipulate their religion's holy texts into propaganda to preach hatred. i don't know if there's an appropriate equivalent in the qur'an but the bible tells christians to "love thy neighbour", it's unfortunate that a tiny minority choose to ignore this.

[Ashley]

Batty and Platty, sounds like some kind of crimefighting duo.

 

Maybe its because I'm more likely to come under attack/be affected from Christian Extremists than Muslim Extremists (maybe thats not a statistic but its a feeling). And yes maybe im not aware of all the badness that goes on elsewhere, but as long as I put my hands up and admit I don't can't I live in blissful ignorance?

[dukkadukka]

i see your point ashley, you just need to look at american politics in the bush era to see how christian extremism can stunt a nation.

[Platty]

 

Maybe its because I'm more likely to come under attack/be affected from Christian Extremists than Muslim Extremists

 

Not if you live in London like me.

[Haver]

Not if you live in London like me.

 

There's a bigger picture, Platty. Arguably, without the Christian Right, we wouldn't have a Bush government - and we wouldn't be in Iraq right now.

[Platty]

There's a bigger picture, Platty. Arguably, without the Christian Right, we wouldn't have a Bush government - and we wouldn't be in Iraq right now.

 

So wait i may have misunderstood you but are you trying to connect up to the days of Henry VIII and the creation of the Church of England?

[mike-zim]

There's a bigger picture, Platty. Arguably, without the Christian Right, we wouldn't have a Bush government - and we wouldn't be in Iraq right now.

 

that is a very loose statement. so why was bali bombed then? Wasn't 9/11 before the war? it was just a matter of time. terrorists dont ussually need a reason to kill people, but the war has given them a sick excuse.

 

anyway i thought the thread was about gay rights?

[dukkadukka]

it is mike, but suppression by religious groups has always been one of the biggest issue for gay rights worldwide so it's understandable that the topic has gone off in this direction. i don't mind, as long as no one starts flaming eachother then i don't give a rat's ass.

[BlueStar]

Don't forget there are Christian groups who think 9/11, hurricanes, the london bombings were all God's wrath against The US / England for accepting homosexuals. The ones who celebrate coalition deaths in Iraq and wave signs saying "Thank God for dead troops", "Thank God for 9/11" and "Thank God for AIDS".

 

Nice people.

[Pestneb]

Batty and Platty, sounds like some kind of crimefighting duo.

 

Maybe its because I'm more likely to come under attack/be affected from Christian Extremists than Muslim Extremists (maybe thats not a statistic but its a feeling). And yes maybe im not aware of all the badness that goes on elsewhere, but as long as I put my hands up and admit I don't can't I live in blissful ignorance?

 

What are they going to do though? I guess I see what you mean though, the largest group in opposition to your views are most able to persecute you and try to force you to change, but being in the majority it strikes me as strange that you would feel threatened by a group that is far smaller than the one you are a part of.

[dukkadukka]

pestneb, often it is the smallest groups who make their voice heard the most. muslim extremists in britain are definitely a minority, but i wouldn't call it strange to feel threatened by the attacks they made in london.

[Ashley]

Don't forget there are Christian groups who think 9/11, hurricanes, the london bombings were all God's wrath against The US / England for accepting homosexuals. The ones who celebrate coalition deaths in Iraq and wave signs saying "Thank God for dead troops", "Thank God for 9/11" and "Thank God for AIDS".

 

Nice people.

 

Ah yes, the amusing "Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath because Ellen DeGeneras (sp?) is hosting the Oscars" laughably stupid.

 

And I'd imagine its scarier to live in London but I like in a small town where not much is likely to happen.

[Pestneb]

pestneb, often it is the smallest groups who make their voice heard the most. muslim extremists in britain are definitely a minority, but i wouldn't call it strange to feel threatened by the attacks they made in london.

 

feel threatened in what way though? Personally my life hasn't changed at all since then, I was fortunate not to know any victims of the attack, but I don't see any more threat from them than I do from cars, or old age, which statistically are far more likely to be involved in my eventual death.

[BlueStar]

And I'd imagine its scarier to live in London but I like in a small town where not much is likely to happen.

 

Notice that the only state to suffer an attack in the US, along with the cities containing the financial, high-casualty and symbolic targets voted against Bush, and the people out in the sticks who are highly unlikely to have an Al Quaeda piloted plane flown into their barn killing 2 cows and a farm hand voted for him.

[Ashley]

I think dd just means the overlooming fear that it could happen again, the same way most people have a small fear of flying incase the plane crashed etc. Its kind of a silly fear but still prevails. Or maybe dd just meant something else.

[Haver]

that is a very loose statement. so why was bali bombed then? Wasn't 9/11 before the war? it was just a matter of time. terrorists dont ussually need a reason to kill people, but the war has given them a sick excuse.

 

anyway i thought the thread was about gay rights?

 

Er, what? I am not so foolish to think that terrorism exists solely because of the war on Iraq - however - it has certainly provided ammunition for their cause.

[Haver]

So wait i may have misunderstood you but are you trying to connect up to the days of Henry VIII and the creation of the Church of England?

 

I am referring to the Christian Right, but yes, George Bush invades the Middle East in the name of God - which in turn, encourages Islamic fundamentalism.

[CooInTheZoo]

I cant believe its only just happening in 2005. Apparently Elton John along with over 70 gay couples got married this afternoon. Its awesome, hopefully now the 'stigma' about homosexuals can go away

 

And about the adoption thing, why the hell shouldnt a gay person raise a child? surely if you want a straight parent, you would want a non smoker, a really clever blonde haired blue eyes tall person to raise instead of say a small person or a brunette? In an ideal world, everyone would be the same. However you have proved we are not, go away.

[Haden]

Yeah - they kill young homosexuals because of their sexuality. Nothing so brutal happens in Western, Christian civilisations, of course.

 

Yep and in England we have protests. While your dry sarcasm and highlighting of Western and Christian (two words that strike fear and loathing into any good political student) seems to invalidate your point. I assume you are talking then of the KKK's actions against homosexuals and blacks and Jews and just about anyone who wasn't a WASP. Yes of course this should be regonised and an element of this still exists in America. However it isn't condoned by the State (you can say whatever you want about George Bush but he certianly isn't a racist note the influnece Miss Rice has). Nor is it the dominant culture to be extreme in ones actions. Do not be confused that I am saying that it is not dominant in the culture for people to favour homosexual marrige or not (as in America you could point out they don't) but that is neither here nor there. It doesn't make them extremists it just makes them Christians of a different view. The nature of feeling and expression of it are totally different things and in both cases I think it would be naive and showing partisan political favour to Muslim extremists to compare the East and West in this insitance.