Posted September 3, 2009 In recent years, the very concept of religion has gained a negative connotation - and not just among atheists, either. While the likes of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins describe religion as mankind's bane and the fundamental enemy of science, progress and enlightenment, some believers do seem to tacitly adopt some aspect of that stance as well by saying things like: "Christianity is NOT a religion, it is a personal relationship!" (Which, apart from being patently wrong, shows how things are perceived at the moment.) When people hear the term "religion", they think of legalism, rituals, hierarchies; people dressing up in strange clothes and performing strange deeds that do not seem to make that much sense; rules of conduct and modes of thought that seem to belong to a bygone age, and seem at least partially incompatible with a post-industrial society. I'd like to contest that notion, or at least to relativise it to a certain degree: Historically speaking, religion wasn't the antithesis of progress, but its very foundation: the first major civilizations were theocracies; codes of law, the written word, agriculture, astronomy, art, even the sciences: all of these (and more!) were pretty much linked to, motivated by, or even based upon religion. The perceived schism between religious thought and the scientific method is a relatively recent phenomenon, and one that would have undoubtedly baffled many of the most well-known forerunners of science as we know it today, such as Isaac Newton. To divorce a sense of the numinous and religious wonder from the pursuit of knowledge seems like a very bad idea to me. Admittedly, most established religions do belong to an earlier age, both in thought and deed, yet it would be foolish to discard the very concept of religion and spirituality out of hand, let alone demonize them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 This isn't going to end well. The concept of religion is not "evil". However, so many denomonations and their followers follow religious texts and teachings to a manic degree, often inciting hatred or discrimination. It can cause evil. But someone peacefully having a faith and following teachings with a pinch of reality salt is ok. (if you have to) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 religion is fine. its just people that are stupid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Are guns evil? No. But they can be used for evil. Or they can be used for good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 BTW navarre, you should post your sources when you take what someone else says and repost it as your own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Religion is the worst thing to happen to humanity. IMCO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Religion isnt evil. But people are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 religion is fine. its just people that are stupid End of story I couldn't disagree more with Rez's statement. History validates the above opinion completley. I would think it would be hard to think of one war that is soley about religion. Before someone shouts crusades nope no way. Religion moved things and shaped sides but cold hard power struggles shaped the day. If this was not the case then all Catholic Nations and all Islamic nations would have been in a constant sate of warfare from now to the end of time. As well as the fact that not all Catholic Nations even fought in all crusades. It was not that simple their was constant behind the doors negotiation. Early Modern period France and Turkey were allied in wars politics, greed and lust of power are what cause wars. Why did France and Turkey ally? Because they both border Austria who was contending for supremacy of Europe with their good catholic friends France! Want another example? Look at the Byzantines Empires transient alliances with whoever the hell they wanted that would cause pincer movements in international politics. This is the Byzantine Empire the offshoot of the Holy Roman Empire and head of the Orthodox church. They played poker with the best of them. Protestants who wanted the Bible translated into their own language were killed. Power! Not Doctrine but religion mis-used. And now for the positives so many charities etc have formed from religion its untrue. Speaking from a christian point of view follow the gospels you get charitable loving views. I realise Im gonna get less people agreeing with me than Cherie Blair would have attend a naked photoshoot of her. In the end I don't really mind as I think most peoples views of religion and its relationship with war in particular are utterly wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 I realise Im gonna get less people agreeing with me than Cherie Blair would have attend a naked photoshoot of her. Clunky. ;P But true! --- I hate most of all, how there are two main denomonations in Christianity, despite them being virtually the same, except that one has ridiculous rules, and is just completely stupid in every sense, when compared to the other. I.e Catholocism? WTF?! Protestantism is right there, and actually doesn't throw bullshit at you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Are guns evil? No. But they can be used for evil. Or they can be used for good. But you remove the gun from the equation....and it prevents the evil. Thats the way I see it anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Clunky. ;P --- I hate most of all, how there are two main denomonations in Christianity, despite them being virtually the same, except that one has ridiculous rules, and is just completely stupid in every sense, when compared to the other. I.e Catholocism? WTF?! Protestantism is right there, and actually doesn't throw bullshit at you. I have to agree although I know a lot of Catholics and love the churches I have big problems with their theology. If I didn't care about any of that shit I would be Orthodox. Epic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 I have a thing about guns. Guns can only cause harm. So yeah. ReZ is right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 But you remove the gun from the equation....and it prevents the evil. Thats the way I see it anyway. The amount of stuff that has happened that has nothing to do with religion in any way that is appalling is endless. World War 1 for example. There are gonna be wars and murder and god knows what else if you take it away or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 But you remove the gun from the equation....and it prevents the evil. Thats the way I see it anyway. Take away the gun, someone will just pick up a knife. It's the same with religion. Take it away, and people will find other excuses to start wars etc. Human nature is the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Take away the gun, someone will just pick up a knife. It's the same with religion. Take it away, and people will find other excuses to start wars etc. Human nature is the problem. Exactly. Religion is a bad thing as it allows those with ill-intentions to justify, of even get support for their ideas. I wouldn't say the idea is evil as such, but more of an easy way to make evil happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Religion is inherantly NOT evil. What a ridiculous thread to make. Just because we haven't had a religion thread in a while doesn't mean we should start off with such a nonsense opening question. Can't we talk about the incongruous, aliens around us that we call 'the public' whom we are utterly unable to comprehend beyond any basic level? Can't we ponder on why, if there is one, a god would provide us with these random individuals we call 'people', and what their true purpose is? I mean, I know my Descartes well enough to not give a crap about the stranger begging on the street, or selling me baked beans, but to apply the logic to religion -- well I can only ever think about it purely as a discipline for the Self, not for the masses. BUT NO. We have to have a stupid question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 religion is fine. its just people that are stupid Because they can't think for themselves? I think religion exists purely to control others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Religion, guns, money. None of these are the root of all evil. People are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Exactly. Religion is a bad thing as it allows those with ill-intentions to justify, of even get support for their ideas. I wouldn't say the idea is evil as such, but more of an easy way to make evil happen. Or allow those with good intentions to use it to use it as a good thing? Calling religion evil is weird unless you have a definition of what evil is from an objective point of view. I guess most peoples would be pure liberalism damage control sort of thing least people killed most living in good condition. I'm actually surprised by the reactions in this thread it makes me think Cherie Blair might have a future career role. Sorry I have to go be sick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) But you remove the gun from the equation....and it prevents the evil. Thats the way I see it anyway. Yes, but what if that gun where replaced by a knife, or some of the other billion-something methods of killing someone? I have to agree although I know a lot of Catholics and love the churches I have big problems with their theology. Aye. Orthodox churches are amongst the best on the planet. Hagia Sophia is the lesbian porn of the world of Christian architecture, and that's without mentioning the beautiful churches in Greece. Damn, you Protestants may be right with the 'theology' part, but you need to start building more beautiful churches. Just because we haven't had a religion thread in a while doesn't mean we should start off with such a nonsense opening question. Nonsense or not, people ask it irregardless. Religion is empirically, objectively not evil. It should be shuffled to the bottom of the 'serious' pile, along with 'Are videogames evil?' and other nonsense arguments, albeit Richard Dawkins and other 'devout' atheists still like to perpetuate religion to be an evil idea. And, what, with him being a professor at a leading national university, he can't possibly be wrong, can he? Edited September 3, 2009 by navarre Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 Yes, but what if that gun where replaced by a knife, or some of the other billion-something methods of killing someone? Dude, if you're gonna kill someone a gun is much more preferable than a knife. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Because they can't think for themselves? I think religion exists purely to control others. What a rash, misguided view of theists. I think you may need to revise the definition of 'thinking for themselves', because in your opinion, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and even atheists are incapable of thinking for themselves simply because they belong to a group with similar religious views. You realise each person is individual, and has very different opinions on things regarding religion? Would you consider me unable to think for myself, because instead of investigating science myself, I accept scientific evidence gathered by others as facts? Dude, if you're gonna kill someone a gun is much more preferable than a knife. It's compeletely irrelevant which instrument is used. I doubt you used the 'gun' analogy simply because a firearm is a more efficient method of killing. Another example- your hands can be used to kill someone. Are your hands evil? Edited September 3, 2009 by navarre Automerged Doublepost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 It's compeletely irrelevant which instrument is used. I doubt you used the 'gun' analogy simply because a firearm is a more efficient method of killing. Another example- your hands can be used to kill someone. Are your hands evil? Do you know what my hands have done? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2009 It's compeletely irrelevant which instrument is used. I doubt you used the 'gun' analogy simply because a firearm is a more efficient method of killing. Another example- your hands can be used to kill someone. Are your hands evil? Its Rez hes "aving a laugh" its his shtick! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
