The Perils of Decision Making

[Fierce_LiNk]

It has been a long time since I've done one of these, so forgive me if it's a bit crap. Or, very crap.

 

Here goes nothing.

 

 

Upon reading the news regarding a semi-sequel to Umbrella Chronicles, and reading the responses posted, I couldn't help but start a new thread to get some discussion going, about a bigger issue, I feel.

 

From what I have played of Umbrella Chronicles, I did enjoy it. At the time, it was nice to have something a bit different, but in keeping with the Resident Evil universe and feel. At some point, it will definitely make my collection. So, after hearing news of another game in the same (similar) style to this, I wasn't all that surprised, as it seemed to be a little bit of a no brainer. However, after re-thinking my thoughts, I realised it was just that, it is a no brainer.

 

So, let's think back to this in simple terms. What would a game need to do in order to justify a sequel? In my opinion, the product needs to be well received, and therefore it needs to sell. If it sells, you can bet your arse that there will be a sequel at some point. I don't think there are many games out there, right now, which has sold by the bucket load and remained as a standalone title.

 

In terms of Umbrella Chronicles, it was never going to be a title which every Wii owner needed. But, it sold enough, and therefore Capcom can justify the sequel for this. Now, we've received news this morning that they're taking the same route with Darkside Chronicles. In itself, this is acceptable.

 

Now, lets look at another title which has caused a certain amount of controversy over the last few weeks. Excitebots. The same rules apply here. The game was well received, even thought it was not a leading system seller on the Wii, it did enough to warrant another edition. Whilst Monster are keeping in line with the first game, they are also changing and exploring some key concepts and ideas from the first. The game itself features exactly what we were expecting - online play, more fast gameplay, etc. In addition to this, there are other things which we were not expecting. The trucks/bikes being replaced with bots has changed our outlook, but the heart will no doubt still be the same - it will still contain that Excite feel which we have come to love.

 

Why bother? Why bother doing something different, when the title before it was fine as it was. Is there any point? This would imply that change is a bad thing. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" springs to mind. But, do things need to be broken before they are changed?

 

The problem which I can see with Darkside Chronicles is that we have already had a previous experience with Umbrella Chronicles. At first, this seemed like the answer which many of you were picking up on. But, after looking into it, I think there are deeper issues here.

 

Both Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube and Wii edition sold relatively well. Which begs the question, why are we receiving a "sequel" to Umbrella Chronicles, but not 4? This is the problem. Why are some titles receiving sequels, or new editions, whilst others are being left?

 

These are not the only cases for questionable decision making in this day and age. Lets think back to Soul Caliber Legends, and Castlevania Judgement. Two games which I have not played, but two games which I have followed up reasonably closely, so I am not questioning the quality of the games itself, but how these came into being. First off, we have Soul Caliber, whose roots can be traced back to the Dreamcast, with Castlevania going even further back. So, these were already established games, and have come with not only a certain reputation, but a formidable high standard.

 

However, something is amiss here. Did the two just bump into each other and swap identities? Castlevania, an adventure come platforming experience has found its way onto the Wii in the form of Judgement, a fighter. Whilst Soul Caliber, which we have come to love as a loveable fighter, entered the Wii with Soul Caliber Legends, an adventure.

 

Even before playing these games, we are the receiving gamers should be questioning these decisions being made. Why turn Castlevania into a fighter? Why should Soul Caliber become an adventure type? What is to gain here?

 

When creating a game which has come with a past reputation, the developers need to consider what their aims are. Do enough of these developers and publishers do this? Even stranger, do developers play their own games? When looking over the possibilities for another game in the series, they should be asking themselves what they have to gain by "doing the same as before" or "doing something different than before." What is there to gain? In the case of the above mentioned, there needs to be reasons why people take different routes, or keep things the same. As gamers, I think we are entitled to some answers.

[Retro_Link]

I think sadly with the Wii and most Third parties, atm it just come down to making easy money!

 

Don't anyone kid yourselves with RE4 Wii Edition, we got that on Wii simply because Capcom could do a quick port and make easy money, which they did... ALOT!

 

The only Resi games the Wii is really getting, is this new lightgun series, which are again much cheaper to turnover and make money on than creating a new 3rd person Resi adventure.

That's why we aren't seeing one on Wii... because the only one we do have is a cash-in port, and making a new one is too much of an investment for them when they now have the RE:UC engine to go to town on!

 

And with regards to developers playing their own games, it certainly seem Sonic Team don't! And it makes you ask where the developers pride is nowadays, because it seems they don't care if they make a bad game, so long as it lines their pockets!

[Guest Captain Falcon]

Well it all comes down to who holds the purse strings and who is coming up with/ green lighting the ideas.

 

Despite already having the RE4 engine, which is better than 99% of the engines already running on the Wii, Capcom developed a new one and so they might as well get the most out of it. I'm fairly sure they could use for more than a rail shooter. I'd go so far as to say I don't see why they couldn't make a RE game like 4 with it - RE4 is quite a linear game in the way that you go through each section just like a rail shooter.

 

It could be that they have been refining the UC engine and need to test it further before using it for something else - it must be better optimized than the RE4 engine given the time they've had to work on the system.

 

 

In the instance of Castlevania, I'd say that despite it's impressive legacy, the 3D games have been described as average at best and that is probably more than could be said of their sales.

 

So then you say keep it 2D like the DS games. Well the DS games sell quite well, but they have larger budgets than most titles. Upscale production to a home console version and the margins will become tighter.

 

So they take the risk or doing something new -worthy of a little credit if nothing else. Now whether the devs played it before they shipped it, I have no idea - never played and thus can't vouch for it's quality but it's didn't review too bad overall if I recall.

 

As for SoulCalibur Legends, that looks like a marketing decision of how to exploit the good name of a popular license in a game that can be knocked up quickly and is simple enough that anybody can play it - remember people, according to those folks, most of us Wii owners have never play a videogame before it's invention (yeah right...).

 

They wanted the SC faithful to pick it up and show it to their new console owning friends - they just forgot that the SC audience know what constitutes a good game and so they went no where near it.

 

Not even Lloyd Irving could help them and he's saved not one, but two worlds in just one game.

[Choze]

This is why i stopped being much of a Nintendo fan. The current fans cant stop talking about profit or sales. What happened to the games?

[Fierce_LiNk]

This is why i stopped being much of a Nintendo fan. The current fans cant stop talking about profit or sales. What happened to the games?

 

This is a very odd thing to say. Profit and sales lead to what games gamers receive, on any system. And, I don't know if you've forgotten, but we are on a Nintendo forum, so we're going to get a range of discussion, including sales talk, which makes up a part of what we talk about here.

 

Edit: After looking at the first page of this board, it seems like you have just bypassed all the talk about games, which make up the bluddy majority of discussion, and just came here.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Fierce_LiNk

[Retro_Link]

This is why i stopped being much of a Nintendo fan. The current fans cant stop talking about profit or sales. What happened to the games?

They got worse!... What do you mean?... sure things are getting a bit better now on Wii, but there's been a rise in ports and cash-ins and in numerous cases a fall in quality from Third party efforts, when you compare the first 2 years Wii games with those on other consoles/generations.

 

Only now are we seeing some developers actually delve into the Wii's potential, but even so, with only a couple of exceptions, all Wii games could be have been achieved on the GC.

When you see developers producing games that have minimal effort put into them and are only being made to take advantage of the Wii's success, of course talk turns to profit and sales!

[Choze]

This is a very odd thing to say. Profit and sales lead to what games gamers receive, on any system. And, I don't know if you've forgotten, but we are on a Nintendo forum, so we're going to get a range of discussion, including sales talk, which makes up a part of what we talk about here.

 

I prefer to have a discussion without those words sometimes but yes i understand the importance no doubt! and let me be the first to say PS3 for example is not immune to this stuff Even if those games are higher budget. Alot of it is about treading on the safe path.

 

Yes the variety of these games are lacking. There should be a category called 'lazy'.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I prefer to have a discussion without those words sometimes but yes i understand the importance no doubt! and let me be the first to say PS3 for example is not immune to this stuff Even if those games are higher budget. Alot of it is about treading on the safe path.

 

Yes the variety of these games are lacking. There should be a category called 'lazy'.

 

Having a discussion without these words is fine. But, having this discussion without those words would be nigh on impossible.

[mcj metroid]

let me be the first to say I am shocked and apalled at capcom's decision to make a sequel to resident evil cc. I mean yes it wasn't a bad game but you'd have to be an idiot to make a bad lightgun game in fairness.

 

That's not what annoys me though. At least dead space told us instantly maybe 1 day later that it would be an on-rails game. This dropped every hint that it was something else and then left you with the worst case scenario.

 

Getting people excited over nothing ISNT a good thing, They may think it might get the title attention but it just creates backlash and hate. I think a lot of people underestimate the internet. They did the exact same thing with uc but at least at the time that was an original and new title..

 

On the whole thing. Spin-offs can be experiements that can work wonderfully like mario kart but most of the time they work horribly like every sonic one,soul calibur legends. Like it or not they are cash ins on a brand name and nobody knows this game better than capcom(cough 1000000 megaman games cough)

 

Most people don't agree with them and I have to say most of the time It's nice to see your favourite character in another type of game.. but this works just as badly with movies too when actors change their roles for one movie.. something even for music when artists change their style followed by backlash from fans of the original style.

 

this doesn't just happen in gaming.

[EchoDesiato]

I kind of miss the N64 and Cube days of Nintendo being the underdog.

[Shino]

I kind of miss the N64 and Cube days of Nintendo being the underdog.

 

Yeah me too. We're still buying a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games, and devs still shit on Nintendo. The only difference now is that Nintendo went from most hardcore brand to most casual in the eyes of the media idiots and comment trolls.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

Even if those games are higher budget. Alot of it is about treading on the safe path.

 

Safe patch? Majority of US Top-20 developers are on the red, with those who focused primarily on HD-development are in the worst shape. Before someone says that recession has something to do with it, I must remind that we are still seeing 20 percent growth in revenue on quartely basis. So far consoles go, there isn't recession yet, and never was when majority of these losses were made. HD-model is simply broken, and we will see at least two, perhaps even three TOP-20 publishers to go down this year.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Teppo Holmqvist