Another "I'm buying a new PC" thread!

[The fish]

My two cents, for your dvd drive maybe spend an extra few quid and find one with light scribe support, can be quite a cool feature if you ever find a need for it.

 

My laptop has that if I ever need it, at the moment I'm hunting down a definite (preferably cheaper) replacement for my MoBo.

[McPhee]

Just done a bit of shopping for you Fish to see just how much flexibility there is in £500. See what you think of this;

 

CPU: Intel Core2Duo E7300 - £90.94 @ eBuyer

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L - £70.46 @ Scan

GPU: Sapphire Radeon 4870 512MB - £158.90 @ Pixmania

RAM: 4GB OCZ DDR2 800MHz - £35.99 @ eBuyer

DVD: Samsung DVD-RW - £14.81 @ Scan

HDD: 500GB Western Digital AAKS - £44.25 @ Scan

Case: Antec Sonata III inc 500W PSU (the PSU is a pretty good one in this set, retails seperately for just under £50)

 

All in: £495.34 excl Del.

 

Shipping on Pixmania is a little steep, but they are significantly cheaper than anywhere else for this card. Free super saver delivery available at eBuyer and Hexus.net forum and AVForums members can register for free delivery with Scan.

 

That's the most bang for buck you can get with £500, pretty confident that it can't be beaten

[Nolan]

If I'm reading this correctly, yes your motherboard should support it with any bios version.

 

http://www.asrock.com/support/Yorkfield.asp

 

Btw, your CPU is wolfdale, not yorkfield

[The fish]

If I'm reading this correctly, yes your motherboard should support it with any bios version.

 

http://www.asrock.com/support/Yorkfield.asp

 

Btw, your CPU is wolfdale, not yorkfield

 

I see it, second from the very very bottom, looks fine according to them, thanks a lot for finding that!

 

Just done a bit of shopping for you Fish to see just how much flexibility there is in £500. See what you think of this;

 

CPU: Intel Core2Duo E7300 - £90.94 @ eBuyer

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L - £70.46 @ Scan

GPU: Sapphire Radeon 4870 512MB - £158.90 @ Pixmania

RAM: 4GB OCZ DDR2 800MHz - £35.99 @ eBuyer

DVD: Samsung DVD-RW - £14.81 @ Scan

HDD: 500GB Western Digital AAKS - £44.25 @ Scan

Case: Antec Sonata III inc 500W PSU (the PSU is a pretty good one in this set, retails seperately for just under £50)

 

All in: £495.34 excl Del.

 

Shipping on Pixmania is a little steep, but they are significantly cheaper than anywhere else for this card. Free super saver delivery available at eBuyer and Hexus.net forum and AVForums members can register for free delivery with Scan.

 

That's the most bang for buck you can get with £500, pretty confident that it can't be beaten

 

The one issue I see with that set up, especially with the Radeon 4870 in there, is heat. I know the fan I have lined up is for the CPU specifically, but a big powerful graphics card like won't help things. I've spied that case before, by the way, it's sexy.

 

I'm seriously considering that, I'll see if I can cut the price on bits enough to squeeze a fan in.

 

Oh, and if anyone was wondering, at the mo, all components are Ebuyer prices - free delivery is my vice!

[Nolan]

If you go with McPhees build, the P35 falls into that trap of needing a bios update I believe.

[The fish]

If you go with McPhees build, the P35 falls into that trap of needing a bios update I believe.

 

I was just about to look that up. There's also the issue of power. I dare say that the difference between the 8800GTS and the 4870 HD in wattage is greater than that between a E8400 and an E7300. I'll check that now, actually.

 

EDIT: Aye, McPhee's build uses about 30W under the limit, I'd rather not risk that. That'll also add to the heat problem. Still, thanks for trying, 'Phee. Once I've upped my PSU in the future and have money for a new card, I'll take any advice from you as gospel. Well, I'd take how someone other than me would take gospel...

[McPhee]

I was just about to look that up. There's also the issue of power. I dare say that the difference between the 8800GTS and the 4870 HD in wattage is greater than that between a E8400 and an E7300. I'll check that now, actually.

 

EDIT: Aye, McPhee's build uses about 30W under the limit, I'd rather not risk that. That'll also add to the heat problem. Still, thanks for trying, 'Phee. Once I've upped my PSU in the future and have money for a new card, I'll take any advice from you as gospel. Well, I'd take how someone other than me would take gospel...

 

You'd have no trouble running that system on that PSU, i'm getting 332W or 370W with a 4GHz overclock using the calculator. That, the number of people running more powerfull systems on the same PSU (specifically the 4870 with a more powerfull CPU or even GFX 280's!) and the fact that i have no trouble despite running one of the most power hungry GPUs of all time (x1950 XTX) on a similar PSU make me pretty certain there'd be no problem there. Hardware is getting more power efficient as well, so there shouldn't be any future head aches.

 

Buy the Coolermaster PSU on the other hand and it'll need replacing within a year, it's a very cheap and basic power supply that is stretching the truth a bit by calling itself a 460W PSU.

[The fish]

You'd have no trouble running that system on that PSU, i'm getting 332W or 370W with a 4GHz overclock using the calculator. That, the number of people running more powerfull systems on the same PSU (specifically the 4870 with a more powerfull CPU or even GFX 280's!) and the fact that i have no trouble despite running one of the most power hungry GPUs of all time (x1950 XTX) on a similar PSU make me pretty certain there'd be no problem there. Hardware is getting more power efficient as well, so there shouldn't be any future head aches.

 

Buy the Coolermaster PSU on the other hand and it'll need replacing within a year, it's a very cheap and basic power supply that is stretching the truth a bit by calling itself a 460W PSU.

 

I reckon that CPU thing could be a major issue. In that case, I'll get the case you recommended/CPU, but it's £70. However, it seems like a big enough problem to warrant the change.

 

Ok, I've just done a major reshuffle, and have come up with this:

 

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz (Retail 775) (Aria)

GPU: nVidia GeForce 9800GTX+ 512MB PCI-E (Aria)

HDD: 500GB Seagate Barracuda SATA2 32MB ST3500320AS 7200RPM (Aria)

DVD: Samsung 22x DVDRW IDE, Black (Aria)

Fan: Xilence Red Wing Case Fan 12cm (Aria)

Mobo: Asrock PENRYN1600SLI-110DB Nvidia 650i SLI Socket 775 7.1 Channel Audio ATX (eBuyer)

RAM: Crucial 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Non-ECC Unbuffered (eBuyer)

Case: Antec Sonata III Piano Black Quiet Mid Tower Case - With 500W EarthWatts PSU (eBuyer)

 

All for £488.24

 

Yay, or nay, folks?

 

Oh, and if you're wondering why the extra case fan, In my (very warm) room here at Uni, the only place I can physically put the tower is near the radiator...

 

EDIT: Ok, I've ordered that build as stocks were limited on several components. I should have it all by the 23rd, so I'll let you know how badly I manage to screw up the building of it! Oh, and McPhee, I really was tempted to get that Radeon 4870, but I saw the 9800GTX+ for under £120, and I had to buy it. I stuck with the E8400 because it's a fast muther.

[Nolan]

Hmm, I got a more definant answer on the Mobo/45nm CPU thing. According to my other sources, it'll need the bios update, of course according to asrock themselves it seems it'll be fine.....

 

We'll just wait see. Even if it happens to need the update I think there are a few different things to make updating possible.

[The fish]

Hmm, I got a more definant answer on the Mobo/45nm CPU thing. According to my other sources, it'll need the bios update, of course according to asrock themselves it seems it'll be fine.....

 

We'll just wait see. Even if it happens to need the update I think there are a few different things to make updating possible.

 

On ASRock's website, I found this for the motherboard:

775 Core 2 Duo E8400(E0) 3.0GHz 1333MHz 6MB Wolfdale P1.40

775 Core 2 Duo E8400(C0) 3.0GHz 1333MHz 6MB Wolfdale All

 

What's the difference between C0 and E0?

 

According the Aria, where I'm buying it from, they don't differentiate between the stepping of the CPU's they sell, so it may be luck of the draw...

 

If I do need to update it, is it possible for the core to function without the update, or at least enough to install Windows transfer the updater?

[DCK]

You really should get the 4850. Its performance is on par with the 9800GTX+ (the charts you're looking at measured performance when it came out, and ATI has made huge performance gains with new drivers since then), but it should be cheaper. Also, on Intel boards, you could eventually CrossFire it when you can get another 48xx GPU for cheap.

 

You should also consider spending some 20 pounds extra on a P45 motherboard. It's got some new features, like faster PCI-Express and improved CrossFire, and increased performance that make it worth the money.

[The fish]

You really should get the 4850. Its performance is on par with the 9800GTX+ (the charts you're looking at measured performance when it came out, and ATI has made huge performance gains with new drivers since then), but it should be cheaper. Also, on Intel boards, you could eventually CrossFire it when you can get another 48xx GPU for cheap.

 

You should also consider spending some 20 pounds extra on a P45 motherboard. It's got some new features, like faster PCI-Express and improved CrossFire, and increased performance that make it worth the money.

 

Wait, wait, wait - one problem at a time! I'm trying to find a solution to this motherboard issue first! In the meantime, I've cancelled the sent a cancellation request for the 9800GTX+ as I may have to revert back to the 8800GTS 512MB if a new motherboard costs me dearly...

 

EDIT: Urgh, I've spent most of the day hunting on forums for a board that'll work out of the box. So far, the cheapest I can find is about £80...

[Nolan]

This is about the closest I came to figuring out the C0/E1 issue. It's not very helpful though

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/611

 

Anyways, maybe you should consider just getting a 65nm CPU instead. Yes it isn't quit as wonderful, but they are still great preformers. Some may even be cheaper.

 

The other option is, find a friend who built a PC and see if they have a 65nm CPU you can borrow long enough to update the bios. OR. buy the cheapest crappiest 65nm you can find Like this.

 

I use newegg because compared to everyone else they have a much more navigable site, unfortunately they don't ship outside of the US, but They can give you a list of just 65nm CPUs instead of making you wade through 45 and 65...

[The fish]

Thanks, I'll consider that. At the moment, almost every board I can find depends on the C0/E0 issue - it's entirely luck of the draw which you get, and the board will work out of the box with one but not the other.

 

I've rang a mate of mine who has lots of old CPU's sitting around, and he'll see what he has and get back to me. Other than that, I may be able to take the CPU out of my dad's PC (with a lot of begging) and use that.

 

Would this CPU work with the mobo I was going to order, allowing me to update it? I reckon it should, but I don't want to do something stupid.

[Nolan]

Yea.... it does seem random.

 

Anyways, it seems that if your board will post you can update via USB.

 

http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=121159.msg914880

 

It's an "if" though.

 

If you do decide not to risk it and get a new motherboard. Consider saving on the CPU also with either the E7300 ~90 or for even less the E5200 ~65. The E5200 isn't a Core 2 Duo it's a Pentium Dual-Core, but from what I've heard the PDC aren't as far behind C2D as they once were.

[The fish]

Yea.... it does seem random.

 

Anyways, it seems that if your board will post you can update via USB.

 

I've heard about using a USB like a floppy disk could have been used before. What exactly is posting, may I ask?

 

EDIT: Oh, I see. Is there a really easy way to find out if a mobo can post, or is it a case of wait and see?

[Nolan]

It's just the motherboard Booting up essentially.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherboard#Bootstrapping_using_the_BIOS

 

The motherboard will POST(Power On Self Test), for whatever reason it gets called posting.

 

Some will power up like this and tell you that you have problems or whatever and won't go further will others depending on the problem won't post at all. It your does post with a incorrect CPU you should be able to Flash(update) the Bios to the latest version.

[The fish]

Some will power up like this and tell you that you have problems or whatever and won't go further will others depending on the problem won't post at all. It your does post with a incorrect CPU you should be able to Flash(update) the Bios to the latest version.

 

So it's basically luck of the draw, then?

 

In the mean time, I'll keep hassling friends to see if they have a core that'll work.

 

Going back to what DCK said, as soon as I get confirmation that my 9800GTX+ has been cancelled, I'll order a 4850 HD.

 

EDIT: Random memory: isn't the Radeon 4850 the size of a small car, and as such might not fit in my case?

[McPhee]

This is why i recommended that Gigabyte board, it does 45nm out of the box...

 

The 4850 will fit, but it's a tight fit if you pop a fan on the HDD enclosure. Same goes for the 8800GTS though, in fact i believe they're about the same size.

[Nolan]

It's about 10 inches long iirc so is the 9800/8800 give or take an inch or two.

 

@McPhee, your Gigabyte board is a P35 right? I believe those are old enough to require the update, as I heard it anything older than a P45 will need it.

[The fish]

At the moment, I can still change stuff, as eBuyer took the money out of my account for motherboard, case and RAM, which I cancelled when I thought I was going to need to change the Mobo, but haven't given it back.

 

I may put the whole thing on hold until after Christmas so I have comfortably enough money - I don't want to touch my overdraft without needing too, and I just spotted this at the bottom of the email: "The refund will take up to three working days to clear. "

[Nolan]

Do you mind going AMD?

 

Well, nevermind I'll make suggestions anyways.

 

Mobo1

 

Mobo2

 

Quad-core(slightly more than the E8400)

 

Dual-Core(65nm)

[Ten10]

I used to be an AMD guy myself, but as of late AMD can get their stuff together, so unless price is your deciding factor I would and have gone Intel.

[Nolan]

If he goes with an AMD dual-core he'll save a fair bit over the E8400, not so much over the Motherboard but a little.

 

The only real bad thing is that your not going to get much of an overclock on an AMD. Performance differences are mostly negligible.

[The fish]

If he goes with an AMD dual-core he'll save a fair bit over the E8400, not so much over the Motherboard but a little.

 

The only real bad thing is that your not going to get much of an overclock on an AMD. Performance differences are mostly negligible.

 

By benchmarks, the E8400 still seems better than both of those AMD CPU's for games.

 

AMD in recent years seem to have lost their edge. Last time I had anything to do with desktop components, AMD were both faster and cheaper than Intel cores.