Kirkatronics Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Sorry for killing a child? Sorry doesn't and never changes what a person has done, nor the effect it has on the family/friends around the person who was killed. I know it means no blood is spilt, but it still irratates me to high hell, they should be in prison just like everybody else who commits a crime, not let off because they are younger. As it is I don't agree with a life for a life, I dislike the idea of hanging people nor the electric chair, because that then makes us hypocritical, but I don't believe in letting them go scot free. They got new lives, new identities, new homes, a whole new eistance because of something they did which was evil.. I think the death penalty is harsh, and weve evolved from it for most crimes, although we can still be hung for treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 If they are innocent, then its all fine and dandy. But if they are sorry, they still deserve to be locked away with other scum like them. As a humanist, I believe that you should be ready and willing to forgive those who are truly sorry and repenting for how they have wronged you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Yes I know they did, which is why I don't agree with our legal system. I don't think it's fair for the parents to have to go and say ''oh you killed our child, brutually, but never mind eh we forgive you'' it doesn't work like that and if the parents do happen to forgive them they have a heart of solid gold for doing so. I never want children, but if my child was killed like that, I would quite wish for them to stay in prison for a good part of their lives and even then it wouldn't be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 How many of these people do you actually think have common sense, eh? That's what stops most people from committing crimes, and yet they still do. Therefore, they probably have none.Some crimes are commited in pure desperation, like stealing food when you havent eaten in days. Its still wrong, but i think its a bit less punishable than killing a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Fair? That shouldn't come into it, considering they weren't exactly fair when they killed that child.. So you'd rather stoop to their level, as many American states do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 As a humanist, I believe that you should be ready and willing to forgive those who are truly sorry and repenting for how they have wronged you.How can you tell someone is truly sorry?Im sorry, we wont do it again *forgiven* *does it again* im truly sorry this time! *forgiven* *repeat* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Some crimes are commited in pure desperation, like stealing food when you havent eaten in days. Its still wrong, but i think its a bit less punishable than killing a child. I was talking about more serious crimes. Crimes for survival (excluding the likes of killing someone to join a gang in order to survive on an estate, etc), are different, and, to be fair, the courts do take those into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 So you'd rather stoop to their level, as many American states do? No it isn't what I said, I already stated that I do not believe in killing others like the americans do. They get new lives for killing a child, is that really right to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Yes I know they did, which is why I don't agree with our legal system.I don't think it's fair for the parents to have to go and say ''oh you killed our child, brutually, but never mind eh we forgive you'' it doesn't work like that and if the parents do happen to forgive them they have a heart of solid gold for doing so. I never want children, but if my child was killed like that, I would quite wish for them to stay in prison for a good part of their lives and even then it wouldn't be enough. If it was my child, id want a firing squad. But thats un ethical, and id want them to rot in prison. Life should mean LIFE, not 'oh, youve been good.. have 4 years'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 How can you tell someone is truly sorry?Im sorry, we wont do it again *forgiven* *does it again* im truly sorry this time! *forgiven* *repeat* Willy Brant and Auschwitz, anyone? An extreme example I know, but the point stands. An element of judging the person is in order. I'm not suggesting that someone who commits a crime and is truly sorry should be let off, no strings attached. I'm suggesting that lenience is in order. I'm also talking about personal forgiveness, not legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Willy Brant and Auschwitz, anyone? An extreme example I know, but the point stands. An element of judging the person is in order. I'm not suggesting that someone who commits a crime and is truly sorry should be let off, no strings attached. I'm suggesting that lenience is in order. I'm also talking about personal forgiveness, not legal. Those names dont come to mind, ill look them up.But my philosiphy is do the crime, do the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 No it isn't what I said, I already stated that I do not believe in killing others like the americans do. They get new lives for killing a child, is that really right to you? They were young and brought up in terrible conditions. I reckon they are most likely horrified by what they did. If they are, they should not be released to a mob of people who are like-minded (albeit to a greater extent) than yourself. What ever happened to "there is no judge more terrible than ones own conscience"? Those names dont come to mind, ill look them up. You don't know Willy Brant or even Auchwitz? By god, looks like I'm right - I have for a long time thought that the more ignorant a person, the more extreme their views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 They were young and brought up in terrible conditions. I reckon they are most likely horrified by what they did. If they are, they should not be released to a mob of people who are like-minded (albeit to a greater extent) than yourself. What ever happened to "there is no judge more terrible than ones own conscience"? You cant use that as a fact. You dont know how they were raised, or how they feel about it. You don't know Willy Brant or even Auschwitz? By god, looks like I'm right - I have for a long time thought that the more ignorant a person, the more extreme their views. Ive just looked it up, and because my memory is so bad i forget the names of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 You cant use that as a fact.You dont know how they were raised, or how they feel about it. Part of the reason the courts ruled as they did is because of the way they were raised. It's quite well known. Ive just looked it up, and because my memory is so bad i forget the names of things. The name Auschwitz isn't something most forget in a hurry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 The way the person is raised is only part of the act, as I recall their parents didn't stand over them while they were kicking that child to death. I understand the courts acted as they did, but it shouldn't be something that rules over the whole case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 The name Auschwitz isn't something most forget in a hurry... I didnt forget it, i forgot its name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I understand the courts acted as they did, but it shouldn't be something that rules over the whole case. It didn't, they weren't exactly found innocent, were they? It only affected a technicality for the end of their sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Maybe if they got new identities, and had to serve the time for their crime. It wouldnt be so bad. (but theres no way of knowing where they are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Maybe if they got new identities, and had to serve the time for their crime. It wouldnt be so bad. (but theres no way of knowing where they are... As far as I am aware, they served the sentence handed down to them. The main reason new identities is to prevent more crimes being committed against them. The main purpose of the legal system in the UK is to prevent more crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 As far as I am aware, they served the sentence handed down to them. The main reason new identities is to prevent more crimes being committed against them. The main purpose of the legal system in the UK is to prevent more crime. Then let's hope they don't grow up and decide to do something so disgusting again shall we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 The way the person is raised is only part of the act, as I recall their parents didn't stand over them while they were kicking that child to death. I understand the courts acted as they did, but it shouldn't be something that rules over the whole case. About their upbringing, I don't think you can comment on it until you know what they'd been through. It wasn't simply their parents shouting at them telling them to be violent. Their upbringing, in fact didn't hold any baring on the case because attitudes like yours led them to be held at her magesty's pleasure with a minimum of 8 years to serve their sentence. That was then extended to 10 years and then to 15 years, mainly to satisfy public reaction, before the European Court of Human Rights finally stepped in. The law has no place for emotion because crap like this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 About their upbringing, I don't think you can comment on it until you know what they'd been through. It wasn't simply their parents shouting at them telling them to be violent. Their upbringing, in fact didn't hold any baring on the case because attitudes like yours led them to be held at her magesty's pleasure with a minimum of 8 years to serve their sentence. That was then extended to 10 years and then to 15 years, mainly to satisfy public reaction, before the European Court of Human Rights finally stepped in. The law has no place for emotion because crap like this happens. No, but it still shouldn't rule the whole case, I never said it should be ruled out to ''satisfy the public'' it shouldn't satisfy anyone, it should be ruled as the court see fit, following the law, including issues of how they were brought up, though it brings into persepctive why the parents weren't given some form of ''punishment'' if it was balantly obvious that they had brought up their children in such a bad way. Crap does happen, but it doesn't mean we can go ''oh let's just let them off because their parents treated them badly'' not every child who has been treated like crap has killed a child, so why did they kill one? It doesn't mean that they should get a harsher nor lighter sententce, but at 14 years of age, you would have known that when your foot connects and kicks that child it is going to hurt them and in their case it killed the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Just to point out, they were both just 10 years old then. Your right, but the court will decide how much bearing their upbringing, and all other factors, will have on the sentence. I'm just saying the in this case other factors, that have no place in a court room, had a massive effect on the sentencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I'm going from my point of view that I knew that kicking a child wasnt a good idea. I was ten when the war with iraq started and by god I knew what was going on then too! Unfortunetly are legal systemis abit pants, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stefkov Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 That's a shit idea - they killed someone, so lets demonstrate how civilised, grown-up, and fair we can be by setting the example of killing them. Well yeah. I'd rather the person be dead that clogging up the prisns everywhere. They're in there for life, might aswell cut it short. Once they've had their 5 minutes of fame on TV for killing someone they'll be forgotten. Once the killing of prisoners gets into a continuous flow, everyone will come to accept that if you kill you will be killed. I sound like Kira. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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