Supergrunch Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I am atheist but that doesn't mean that I have no morals. (not having a go at you haden just clearing it up) I just feel that my morals are not to gain a better afterlife but to have a more enjoyable life for me and for others. That's exactly the point I'm getting at- just because you're an atheist doesn't mean you're a psychopath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 Yeh it does! I jest. I am just intrigued by this counciousness thing. I guess this topic has gone off the rails slightly as I introduced murder instead of say stealing as the action. People have murded in cold blood for their own benifit. I mean this really is just a fact. Often as a last resort and probably in the least unpleasant way as possible but just look at say the old bailey court records and you would find that. Mooogleviper I am intrested in what you say about morality. If this doesnt come from genitics where does this feeling come from? Society is I guess what your saying. To be honest this topic is wearing me down slightly and I think it has run its course. Noone has really adressed my question of why shouldnt I do this not if I can or not which is what I have wanted answered from page 1. I will stop posting unless someone answers this as I dont want to seem like I am trying to create a flame war. Thank you for everyone contributions though. I will let you guys know if I have any other philisophical worries! Again thanks and probably over and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 You should not do it, because if you do it, someone else can do it. And then someone else as well, and someone else after that. And there is anarchy. We must have laws and these "morals" in order to function as a society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 You should not do it, because if you do it, someone else can do it. And then someone else as well, and someone else after that. And there is anarchy. We must have laws and these "morals" in order to function as a society. Still doesnt answer my question. As the whole purpose is that noone else will find out. Again its answering the dont do it becasue of society thing. I am talking about questions of indivdual conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Then the argument is simply that yes, you can do it, but then it may happen that someone else can do it as well, without being found out. And the conscience of the individual kicks in and says "But it may happen to me, and I don't want it to, so I won't do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Still doesnt answer my question. As the whole purpose is that noone else will find out. Again its answering the dont do it becasue of society thing. I am talking about questions of indivdual conscience. So what is it you're asking then? I thought I understood, but clearly I don't. Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 Just why it would be wrong indivdually to kill someone if I can gain from it if theres no outside authority. Not like why I cant or what my biological group herd mechanics tell me what might happen to me. Anyway thanks for the answers. Sorry if I have been pedantic and thanks to everyone I can now carry out my assination of Flinky and nick his DS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Just why it would be wrong indivdually to kill someone if I can gain from it if theres no outside authority. Not like why I cant or what my biological group herd mechanics tell me what might happen to me. Well, if you as an individual didn't feel any sort of guilt, remorse, or aversion to killing someone, then you wouldn't see it as wrong. Other people would see your actions as such, but in your mind there had been no wrongdoing. Right and wrong aren't set in stone, and there is no universal standard. But I'm sure you already know this, so yet again I'm left wondering what you were really asking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Mmm, agreed, Aimless. It seems like you're not looking for a real answer, but instead you're posing a circular question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 No no I was looking for an answer. And its a unirevsal one. Oh man Im to drunk to explain atm erm ifor normal peopts unirversal and its not just forn physocys. But thanks anyway I think the theres no reason comment I got from Ian is the best one tbh. Oh man LYN im gonna be sick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Um... good for you! Drown your sorrows, have fun, relax and take your mind off the "big" questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 lol it was my friends 21st last night which was uber fun so I got to trick my conscience with alchol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 And your internal spellchecker as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Thats always ill but I think I murded it to pieces last night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 May I ask where this question originated from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 May I ask where this question originated from? My Moogle! There you are! I thought I had lost you! *ahem* Sometimes the answer is not as important as the question, so yes, what made you come up with that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 My Moogle! There you are! I thought I had lost you! Don't worry my dearest. Even when we're apart our hearts are still connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Don't worry my dearest. Even when we're apart our hearts are still connected. *blush* Aw, hey... Morality is a tough issue, and I can see where Haden is coming from. Where do you take your compass bearing if you have no religious belief? Ultimately, it is not easy, and one tends to cobble together an individualised answer that has its roots in a number of different sources -religion, upbringing and socially accepted norms. In an atheistic society it is down to the group as a whole to define this. In a way, it is little different from religion in some ways -there is a central ideal or goal to work towards, and this is often defined by either a majority or a single entity with the power of definition itself. So there are paralells. Equally, however, the ideal is based around the continued agreeable survival in the here and now, and not through fear of post-mortem punishment. Though there may be the fear of punishment in the here and now. Actually that raises an interesting point: Prisons are decidedly non-christian things. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and the fact that it is the responsibility of the higher being to exact judgements, not those on the mortal plane. So what is punishment here? Is it perhaps the melding of two ideals, or inspired from the fear that there is no divine retribution? Hmm. Now that the concussion is wearing off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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