Zelda: Twilight Princess Discussion (SPOILERS: BEWARE)

[Jamba]

Keep on subject please, you guys have rambled for over a page about working in a game store. Go make a thread in Gneneral chat or something

[masaki86]

Go make a thread in Gneneral chat or something

 

No thanks, I'd rather not.

 

ANyway, back to Zelda, lets have a quick show of hands;

 

Who thinks the twilight is Ganons doing?

Who thinks the Twilight is Vaatis doing?

Who thinks the Twilight is someone/something elses doing? (Eg. Majora....or new enemy...)

 

For me, I reckon it is Ganons influence. He has somehow found a way to combine the Sacred realm and Hyrule into one big ass realm, and the expansion of the Twilight realm to swallow up Hyrule is this in action.

 

However, I'd love it to be Vaati in his human form!

 

Vaati=the bomb!

[Jamba]

Yeah good call Masaki kun. Gannon and the sacred Realm sound pretty safe bet. It's very life what he was trying to do in Link to the Past in some ways. Now that I think about it, TP does seem to have that same dynamic as it got pretty dark sometimes too.

[masaki86]

Yeah good call Masaki kun. Gannon and the sacred Realm sound pretty safe bet. It's very life what he was trying to do in Link to the Past in some ways. Now that I think about it, TP does seem to have that same dynamic as it got pretty dark sometimes too.

 

ANd also the fact people turn into things when they enter the realm. Sounds like The Dark World in Alttp to me.

[Jamba]

But dammit! Shouldn't Link be a Bunny!? I hope they bring in the Demon kid who's bullying the Blob kid, that would be awesome. Do you think they will still have skeletal chickens too? They were a bit freaky...

[masaki86]

I too am hoping for sly nods back to the series' heritage. Considering this could be the last 'real' zelda, I hope they do stuff like that just for the long term fans!

[EchoDesiato]

Anybody remember this???

 

Mmmmmm

http://media.cube.ign.com/media/014/014914/vids_1.html

 

Hard to believe it was done 5 years ago. I still think its the best iteration of Link yet.

If it weren't for that video I think Wind Waker would've been appreciated more.

[Guest Stefkov]

i think it would be funny if Zelda was the ultimate evil in this game, shes the one controling all the evil, Ganon is just her puppet, Shes getting close to Link so that she can have his peice of the triforce. And in this latest one she tells him and they have a battle at the end and link dies, thus Zelda rules the world.

 

 

i just think a twist would be funny

[ShadowV7]

Certainly make me go WOW

[masaki86]

i think it would be funny if Zelda was the ultimate evil in this game, shes the one controling all the evil, Ganon is just her puppet, Shes getting close to Link so that she can have his peice of the triforce. And in this latest one she tells him and they have a battle at the end and link dies, thus Zelda rules the world.

 

 

i just think a twist would be funny

 

ha...no. sorry wouldn't make sense. Fact is, there have been numerous zelda's(some not even direct lineage) and there have been times where Zelda could have gotten hold of a full triforce(see alttp), plus how could she be the sage in OOT. I'm sure the others would sense her evil.

 

I know it was meant to be fun, but I just thought I'd express my distaste for it.

[ShadowV7]

It could be the same Zelda since the first has the OOT so she can be adult or child at will or that the royal family is planning an uprising

[masaki86]

It could be the same Zelda since the first has the OOT so she can be adult or child at will or that the royal family is planning an uprising

 

Ah well, I'll let you carry on with this merry idea, but the fact remains, this takes place hundreds of years after OOT(iirc), so not the same zelda.

[zeldafan2020]

Well Ganon will definetely be the main villian in TP. that is already confirmed in the march issue of nintendo power magazine. I'd be mad if the main villian were anyone else...all the " real zelda games" not the majora's mask and minish cap shit like that but all the " real zelda games" if you know what I mean, have to have Ganon. and I say fuck Vatti and Majora's evil mask.

[masaki86]

I'd be mad if the main villian were anyone else...all the " real zelda games" not the majora's mask and minish cap shit like that but all the " real zelda games" if you know what I mean, have to have Ganon. and I say fuck Vatti and Majora's evil mask.

 

And I say fuck you. Majora's Mask may not be a main story Zelda game, but it is imaginative and brilliant. Nintendo can do what the hell they want. I personally hope Ganon is not the main enemy know, just to piss you off.

[pedrocasilva]

ANyway, back to Zelda, lets have a quick show of hands;

 

Who thinks the twilight is Ganons doing?

Who thinks the Twilight is Vaatis doing?

Who thinks the Twilight is someone/something elses doing? (Eg. Majora....or new enemy...)

 

(...)However, I'd love it to be Vaati in his human form!

 

Vaati=the bomb!

in Zelda TP... Majora mask never happened nor did (or will) link to the past, thus as Vaati part takes place after alttp... he couldn't possibly be on Twilight Princess.

 

lets split it like this:

 

OoT->TP->WW

 

OoT->MM->aLttP->LA(?)->4 Swords

 

 

EDIT:

Well Ganon will definetely be the main villian in TP. that is already confirmed in the march issue of nintendo power magazine. I'd be mad if the main villian were anyone else...all the " real zelda games" not the majora's mask and minish cap shit like that but all the " real zelda games" if you know what I mean, have to have Ganon. and I say fuck Vatti and Majora's evil mask.

Majora Mask is my favorite Zelda ever, don't bash it, just because it lacks Ganon doesn't make it any less zeld"ish", the game is briliant, but not for everyone, it's not a mainstream game.

 

It's a quest for identity made by Link, when people complain Link needs more development... it's all there, in Majora Mask, a true psychological conflict after OoT... that's a great... creative game. if you want to bash it... do better.

[masaki86]

in Zelda TP... Majora mask never happened nor did (or will) link to the past, thus as Vaati part takes place after alttp... he couldn't possibly be on Twilight Princess.

 

lets split it like this:

 

OoT->TP->WW

 

OoT->MM->aLttP->LA(?)->4 Swords

 

Ahah; but you could say WW happened after the child Link ending of OOT. It is plausible(unless Nintendo already confirmed otherwise, I have been out of the TP loop for quite some time now..iirc, they did confirm it was after Adult Link Timeline didn't they?) as Link never returned to save the world due to the fact he never returned from Termina.

 

Oh, and please don't get me started on timeline theories, I could write my dissertation on the topic......

 

edit; screw it here is an extremely basic and ill written version of the parrallel time line imo.

 

OOT><child ending>MM>Oracles

 

OOT><adult ending>TP>WW>ALTTP>LA>LOZ>AOL

 

FS/FSA and Mc are generally considered to be the predecessors to the original OOT.

 

Accepted theories are that Oracles can take place either during 7 year gap in OOT, after AOL as the continuing adventures of Link or pre-LA.

 

In my opinion, they can fit perfectly into the Child link timeline, and take place after MM. There is no Ganon, which allows new beings to try and come to power. The Ganon in FS is not the real Ganon, but a mindless imitation of the original(who is stuck in the adult timeline of chaos) made by those bints(i forget their names).

 

The Adult timeline features all of the 'Main' Zelda games featuring Ganon, as well as the continuation of ALTTP's Link.

[pedrocasilva]

Ahah; but you could say WW happened after the child Link ending of OOT. It is plausible(unless Nintendo already confirmed otherwise, I have been out of the TP loop for quite some time now..iirc, they did confirm it was after Adult Link Timeline didn't they?) as Link never returned to save the world due to the fact he never returned from Termina.

 

Oh, and please don't get me started on timeline theories, I could write my dissertation on the topic......

 

edit; screw it here is the parrallel time line imo.

 

OOT><child ending>MM>MC>FS/FSA

 

OOT><adult ending>TP>WW>ALTTP>LA>LOZ>AOL

 

Accepted theories are that Oracles can take place either during 7 year gap in OOT, after AOL as the continuing adventures of Link or pre-LA.

 

In my opinion, they can fit perfectly into the Child link timeline, and take place after MM but before Minish Cap. There is no Ganon, which allows new beings to try and come to power.

no no... you're getting the story wrong there... after Wind Waker... there's nothing in the storyline... Link to the past takes place hundreds of years after the imprisioning war, who should start around 7 years after Ocarina of Time. anyway... it takes place in the main reality, Wind Waker is a swansong of hyrule, the end of it, forever, they clearly bury it under forever.

 

As for after MM... if link returned or not... it's not known... but it would be wise to make a triology out of that link "ocarina of time" as the birth of a legend, "Majora Mask" as the f*cked up adventure, and in the end the Imprisioning War as the decline and death of the hero, it could trully be awesome. after all if he's not there who will fight the imprisioning war?

 

I wouldn't fit Oracle series in the storyline because there's no reference whatsoever to the real story, but I'd say LA takes place after aLttP, because not only the artwork is equal but makes incredible sense as link remembers Zelda in a Majora Mask way... actually LA is like Majora Mask, but... after aLttP (whereas MM is after OoT) and LA is even more dramatic.

 

I would rule out the 2 first Zeldas and the CDI games from the main storyline, they don't even have story for appearing. (although the first 2 games deserve their place in history and the CDI ones don't)

 

but sticking up with the official confirmed story relation...

 

OoT adult ending->TP->WW

 

OoT child ending->MM->AllP->4Swords

[masaki86]

I will make no more posts relating to the timeline after this, as I am sick and tired of being dragged into meaningless debates on a pice of 'history' that is not real.

 

A) There is nothing to say that ALTTP could not take place in the new world the Link and Zelda create. It is implied that they will go off to form a new Hyrule. Ganon is not killed in WW. He merely sinks to the bottom of the ocean, frozen in stone. The flood came, and the floods may well disappear, bringing Ganon back to the world of Zelda. There is also nothing to say that a new Game between WW and ALTTP may well be created to further link the storyline.

 

B) For the people to know that the imprisoning war happened(ie Link fighting Ganon in OOT) it would have to take place in the adult timeline, as the child link timeline people would know nothing about it. ALTTP describes the imprisoning war as the sealing of Ganon in the sacred realm. This takes place in OOT, but is altered to a point so we can actually play a game.

 

C) How the hell can you 'rule out the first two Zelda's'? We know they are the descendants of ALTTP's Link and Zelda. We Know that LoZ and AoL are the final games in the timeline as it is the only Game where Ganon actually is killed, full and proper. AoL ends with the information That Ganon will never again return to haunt the lands of Hyrule.

 

D) You cannot say I am wrong and you are right. No one knows. I did not say you were wrong initially mate, as it is not my place to comment on peoples ideas and beliefs, but you came out from the off completely dismissing my theory. You pissed me off sir.

 

edit

 

E) It is confimed that LA takes place directly after ALTTP. The Game manual itself states it. It is not just because 'the artwork is equal and it makes sense'.

 

F) Finally, if you want something based on official confirmed story, we have this.

 

ALTTP>LA>LoZ>AoL That is confirmed.

 

We know that OOT>MM we also know that OOT>WW We also know that OOT>ALTTP due to the references in the SNES manual. We know that WW is a direct follow up of Adult Link timeline, I have already pointed out that ALTTP must take place after Adult Link OOT. From this, it is safe to assume that OOT>WW>ALTTP

 

I have backed up my idea with competent and precise evidence. You have not.

 

/End

 

Say all you want. I accept what you are saying, I just disagree. I am not trying to change your ideas, each to their own. If you had not told me I was wrong, this rant would have been avoided.

[masaki86]

oh, and please read my abridged post. I know you are replying right now, but it is not to the full arguement.

[The Peeps]

Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone fill me in?

 

Didn't you have to end OoT as a child? What's all this child ending, adult ending stuff? You complete the game and then you go back in time to be young again and then eventually go off and fight the Skull Kid...

[pedrocasilva]

I will make no more posts relating to the timeline after this, as I am sick and tired of being dragged into meaningless debates on a pice of 'history' that is not real.

 

A) There is nothing to say that ALTTP could not take place in the new world the Link and Zelda create. It is implied that they will go off to form a new Hyrule. Ganon is not killed in WW. He merely sinks to the bottom of the ocean, frozen in stone. The flood came, and the floods may well disappear, bringing Ganon back to the world of Zelda.

 

B) For the people to know that the imprisoning war happened(ie Link fighting Ganon in OOT) it would have to take place in the adult timeline, as the child link timeline people would know nothing about it. ALTTP describes the imprisoning war as the sealing of Ganon in the sacred realm. This takes place in OOT, but is altered to a point so we can actually play a game.

 

C) How the hell can you 'rule out the first two Zelda's'? We know they are the descendants of ALTTP's Link and Zelda. We Know that LoZ and AoL are the final games in the timeline as it is the only Game where Ganon actually is killed, full and proper. AoL ends with the information That Ganon will never again return to haunt the lands of Hyrule. By that fact alone, I am dismissing your idea from here on out partially due to that and point D.

 

D) You cannot say I am wrong and you are right. No one knows. I did not say you were wrong initially mate, as it is not my place to comment on peoples ideas and beliefs, but you came out from the off completely dissing my theory. You pissed me off sir.

 

edit

 

E)It is confimed that LA takes place directly after ALTTP. The Game manual itself states it. It is not just because 'the artwork is equal and it makes sense'.

While I rule Zelda 1 and 2 out of the main storyline... of course Myamoto doesn't, and they take place after OoT and before aLttP if I recall correctly...

 

here it is:

NP: Where do all the Zelda games fall into place when arranged chronologically by their stories?

 

Miyamoto: Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time.

this rules out a link to the past taking place after Wind Waker

 

anyway... that OoT/imprisioning war is valid, but... it could aswell take place 7 years after OoT when Ganon seal might broke due to the "final judgement day" (taken from the 80's cartoons) in the future and in the past, in the future you have no hero of time, thus twilight princess, in the past (and main storyline) you "might" have link from OoT, of course this part could be a assumption. but the imprissioning war could happen in WW storyline without hero of time and in MM storyline with (possibly) Hero of Time there.

 

But, stopping with assumptions...

 

OoT->MM->AlttP-4 Swords (I recall miyamoto saying it takes place after alttp and was the "last/newer" game in the storyline)

 

and...

 

OoT->TP->WW

 

this is what is confirmed, I'm not saying where i'd fit "X" part of the storyline...

 

the other games may very well fit in any of the storylines, specially the ones who take place out of hyrule... but for the main storyline... it's as I stated... as for hyrule from Wind Waker coming back... it could happen and they could explain it, but It's of their interest to keep it that way, they have a main storyline... besides ganon was just a shade of what it once was, and link only had two sages backing him up, that's the end of the hyrulean culture, infact it's already vanishing in the setting we play, and king of hyrule wished for hyrule to stay sealed forever, thus Zelda, Link and Ganon lost their triforce parts... It simply won't happen, in my opinion, the culture was lost, there would be no meaning using that.

 

Lastly I know that about LA... and as you see by what miyamoto says...

 

Anyway sorry for pissing you, as it was not my intention, but I'm right at some points, although I was not claiming to be right, because I wasn't, i was just saying my two cents.

[masaki86]

Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone fill me in?

 

Didn't you have to end OoT as a child? What's all this child ending, adult ending stuff? You complete the game and then you go back in time to be young again and then eventually go off and fight the Skull Kid...

 

Parrallel timelines would be created. The world you saved as an Adult would still be left there, and would recover as and when it happened. The child timeline would know nothing of ganon, and to them, he would never have existed, and the whole event would go unchronicled and what not.

 

It was initially fan speculation at firsy, but Eiji Anouma confirmed that the dual timeline does infact exist.

 

edit-that quote by miyamoto was a long time before Wind Waker, so of course he would not mention it....tbh, localisation issues in the original NP interview have more or less consigned that theory to the waste bin, as recent interviews have stated a lot different.

 

ALso, I have a link where Anouma says FS is the oldest game in the series. We differ here as well.

[The Peeps]

Oh right thanks, I get it. Well I got it while I was waiting for a reply because I had time to think :P but thanks anyway. It was just worded in a way that made it sound like two Links emerged after OoT and that confused me. But I understand that the existing timeline before Link time travels must continue, but also there is an alternate timeline where Link defeated Ganon - Link goes back to the original timeline but this alternate one continues.

[masaki86]

 

the other games may very well fit in any of the storylines, specially the ones who take place out of hyrule... but for the main storyline... it's as I stated... as for hyrule from Wind Waker coming back... it could happen and they could explain it, but It's of their interest to keep it that way, they have a main storyline... besides ganon was just a shade of what it once was, and link only had two sages backing him up, that's the end of the hyrulean culture, infact it's already vanishing in the setting we play, and king of hyrule wished for hyrule to stay sealed forever, thus Zelda, Link and Ganon lost their triforce parts... It simply won't happen, in my opinion, the culture was lost, there would be no meaning using that.

 

OMG, there were no sages in ALTTP, LoZ or AoL. Does that mean they arent proper zeldas. Stop with the assumptions. ALso, we know that Link, Zelda and Ganon lose their triforce pieces, it is the only way that the whole triforce can exist in ALTTP in its true form.

 

edit-Link to Eiji Anouma Interview: FS is the oldest in the series

 

However, lets agree to disagree. Think it's for the best than for me to continually drag this off topic and into personal debates.

 

No prob Ninja Mullet; happy to help a fellow Zelda fanboy.

[pedrocasilva]

Parrallel timelines would be created. The world you saved as an Adult would still be left there, and would recover as and when it happened. The child timeline would know nothing of ganon, and to them, he would never have existed, and the whole event would go unchronicled and what not.

 

It was initially fan speculation at firsy, but Eiji Anouma confirmed that the dual timeline does infact exist.

 

edit-that quote by miyamoto was a long time before Wind Waker, so of course he would not mention it....tbh, localisation issues in the original NP interview have more or less consigned that theory to the waste bin, as recent interviews have stated a lot different.

 

ALso, I have a link where Anouma says FS is the oldest game in the series.

...but ganon would still be aprissioned between dimensions...

 

Whereas Link does know what happened in the Future... Adult Zelda stayed in the future, so she infact died in the TP and WW dimension, as TP is confirmed to take place decades after OoT... who knows... she might still be alive

 

anyway... infact that interview took place long before WW, but they wouldn't shift Alttp to it, because it wouldn't make sense, the thing is... they talk about the sages imprisioning ganon but... that wouldn't be remembered as link returned to the past before that happened, but notice, in ooT they don't even talk about imprisioning ganon forever if I recall correctly, just delaying it...

 

when i saw the first video of Twilight Princess I though it was the imprisioning war, with all the battle frontlines in Hyrule Field, if that one happened in the parallel reality where hyrule ceases to exist, why wouldn't it happen in the main one? infact I'm quite convinced, although this is speculation... that TP is the Imprisioning War with the Adult Ending and without the Hero of Time, who ceased to exist, condemning Hyrule to the darkness. now... wouldn't it be wonderfull if the next zelda takes place in a imprissioning war if hero of time happened to be there? (and in the main storyline?)

 

I've read that interview by aonuma stating that, so I's say it takes place after aLttP in the main storyline, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are a Gaiden scenario, making TP in-between is probably to fill holes for possibly the best part of the story, untill they return to the main timeline and kick ass

 

EDIT:

OMG, there were no sages in ALTTP, LoZ or AoL. Does that mean they arent proper zeldas. Stop with the assumptions. ALso, we know that Link, Zelda and Ganon lose their triforce pieces, it is the only way that the whole triforce can exist in ALTTP in its true form.

 

edit-Link to Eiji Anouma Interview: FS is the oldest in the series

 

However, lets agree to disagree. Think it's for the best than for me to continually drag this off topic and into personal debates.

 

No prob Ninja Mullet; happy to help a fellow Zelda fanboy.

I didn't say that... and aLttP refers to the wise men, aren't they reffering to the sages? as for the two first zeldas... as I stated i'm not rulling them out of Zelda series, just out of the main timeline, because I don't see them fitting, although they will, and probably fit there, it was a personal opinion... don't take that part of the reasoning as I saying that it is like this (because I know it isn't, even the article I searched from myiamoto said otherwise, just a personal opinion).

 

Lastly I agree, lets stop going at each other on this, one day if they release a "real timeline" with all the plot holes fixed, then we can talk and see who's right, but we will probably be quite old by then :/ they are to pusblish a "ultimate timeline" for like... 7 years now...