NeoBlizz Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Errr.... I think they've just gotten a 1280x768 image and downsized it to 800x480. Not a valid comparison at all. Actually its not. It was said that the screengrabs was taken from Tomb Raider Legends running at 1280x768 and then 800x480, no image manipulation at all. And I can confirm this, Tomb Raider Legend on PC looks just like thoose screenshots, in 1280x768 and in 800x480 when running thoose resolutions. Screengrabs taken by me at approx same location. 1280x768 http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9885/lara1280x7686xk.jpg 800x480 http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3647/lara800x4808zw.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku21 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Displacement mapping doesn't make all the difference - there's not 'one' graphical technique (except raytracing that can only be pulled off in real time by supercomputers) that will upgrade the graphics immensely. It helps, but uses for displacement mapping are limited (it's used mostly for terrain) as displacement maps offer little interactivity. If Nintendo would have such an important technique, they would've had a completely new graphics chip, and in that case it would certainly have additional shaders. But yeah, system_error, let's hope your friend's right. I think the biggest difference we see in all those brandnew games is mostly dedicated to bump-mapping...just lokk @ oblivion...it really uses a lot of bumpmapping, then the hdr lighting is fine too... as we all know nintendo´s patent for bumpmapping-like texture-generation explains, that it´s totally done on the GPU....in comparison: pc´s or the 360 both need the CPU to calculate the normal-vektors for the GPU...Nintendo hereby saves much bandwith on the busses and many mb in the ram in bumpmapping-heavy applications... to the displacementmapping: This picture above is using a 16 bit displacementmap, used by applications like 3ds or maya, when it comes down to processing this map it is totally seen as standard poligons by the CPU,...the displacementmapping in opengl or any other rt3d-sdk is only 2 bits i think and doesn´t provide any performance-leap over a just higher-poligon-model... hdr can be done by any graphics accelerator that can do antialias... but i think they improved the hardwarelights that we´ve seen on gc... and finally : there are many things that can be done through shaders ...but there are not many devs that can really take advantageof it:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Actually its not. It was said that the screengrabs was taken from Tomb Raider Legends running at 1280x768 and then 800x480, no image manipulation at all. And I can confirm this, Tomb Raider Legend on PC looks just like thoose screenshots, in 1280x768 and in 800x480 when running thoose resolutions. Screengrabs taken by me at approx same location. 1280x768 http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9885/lara1280x7686xk.jpg 800x480 http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3647/lara800x4808zw.jpg The 360 downsizes the frame to 800x480 in the same way you would with Paint. It renders it in HD but then downsizes it. At Goku21: Displacement Mapping really offers zero interactivity. If the maps would be considered polygons, they'd have to be rendered as polygons. I agree that bump mapping makes much difference, and I just hope Nintendo pulls it off well in the Revolution - it could make so much of a visual difference. I kind of forgot about the patent, because if it works well the visuals could get a serious upgrade. About the shaders - hardware lights are last century, they need actual shaders. It adds so much to a game's feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultrajamie Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 . I agree that bump mapping makes much difference, and I just hope Nintendo pulls it off well in the Revolution - it could make so much of a visual difference. I kind of forgot about the patent, because if it works well the visuals could get a serious upgrade. About the shaders - hardware lights are last century, they need actual shaders. It adds so much to a game's feel. well.... more 'bad' news then.... the rev editors blog on ign seems to suggest that, based on current developer feedback, shader support isn;t really on the cards today < http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN > anyone on here shed any more light on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-zim Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 yeah dont beleive matt from ign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultrajamie Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 yeah dont beleive matt from ign he has better contacts than any of us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-zim Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 and he has proven this how? he has not always been the most reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 and he has proven this how? he has not always been the most reliable. You seem to have a rant on people giving bad news. Matt Cassamina is the most reliable journalist there is for inside info. If that means developers are still stuck with old programmable hardware T&L in the Cube that'd suck big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demuwan Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 You seem to have a rant on people giving bad news. Matt Cassamina is the most reliable journalist there is for inside info. If that means developers are still stuck with old programmable hardware T&L in the Cube that'd suck big time. Personally I think it is foolish to assume Matt's word is 100% true. Sure he has contacts but with all the speculation rife I wouldn't trust anything but Ninty. E3 is close now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendork Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Personally I think it is foolish to assume Matt's word is 100% true. Sure he has contacts but with all the speculation rife I wouldn't trust anything but Ninty. E3 is close now.QFT, there is too much faith in Matt. It's clear he loves being in the position he is in- it's god like.He's often just having a laugh with you.. I don't consider him to be a source with any more credibility than a paper like the Sun. I don't believe anything about Revolution anymore really, Satoru Iwata and Reggie are the only folks I really listen to when they speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demuwan Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 QFT, there is too much faith in Matt. It's clear he loves being in the position he is in- it's god like.He's often just having a laugh with you.. I don't consider him to be a source with any more credibility than a paper like the Sun. I don't believe anything about Revolution anymore really, Satoru Iwata and Reggie are the only folks I really listen to when they speak. Very true I think he is exploiting his position of power. We all know many (me included) are desperate for Info and he must be lapping up all this attention. Thats a major reason why he just launched his blog. All I can say is after E3 we will find out the truth and all the attention seekers will have a lot of explaining to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-zim Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 You seem to have a rant on people giving bad news. Matt Cassamina is the most reliable journalist there is for inside info. If that means developers are still stuck with old programmable hardware T&L in the Cube that'd suck big time. you are mistaken there because i dont see this as bad news. you might but i do not. i am quiet happy with GC graphics on the Rev. gameplay is what i want. Rant is also strong from my comment on asking for proof. Bigtac is attacked all the time here so when i ask the credibility of someone who started a website from his bedroom and happened to get lucky, i get critisised. oh well the world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultrajamie Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 you are mistaken there because i dont see this as bad news. you might but i do not. i am quiet happy with GC graphics on the Rev. gameplay is what i want. Rant is also strong from my comment on asking for proof. Bigtac is attacked all the time here so when i ask the credibility of someone who started a website from his bedroom and happened to get lucky, i get critisised. oh well the world we live in. harsh innit:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku21 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 well.... more 'bad' news then.... the rev editors blog on ign seems to suggest that, based on current developer feedback, shader support isn;t really on the cards today < http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN > anyone on here shed any more light on this? That was the source of the article that we all know: The source that suggests that ther´s no new shadersupport... bad if...but I really studiet all those fuckin patents, and the ideas are really brilliant( saving much (60%)ram in graphics-calculation, infinitive texturelookups in one pass done by a looped pipeline, making the vektor unit of any CPU about 5 to 6 times stronger by a little trick especialy and only for poligon-calculation, ultra-low-latency-ram can directly cache every hardware-instance in the system, then the panoramically-composided-heightmapped-cubemaps( I´ll draw an explaining picture in the next days and will post it here because I think most people didn´t understand this huge! patent!!) question: was the programable T&L really that bad... I just remember the chrystals and the water in FF:CC... An upgraded version could just again be as fine as uptodate-shaders because 5 years ago it was! ...one dev just said that there are "some things" that the rev can even do better or faster or more efficient or whatever than the 360... not everything but some ... iwata said: good graphics are fundamental but n0t enough... 12 well we´ll have to wait and see ... ahhmm how many days to E3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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