copying the revmote?

[CaVaYeRo]

someone told us that sony had three patent problems with the banana controller:

 

- D-pad and vibration owned by Ninty/inmersion

- 2D Gyroscopic control owned by Microsoft (included in their old Sidewinder series)

 

And also they may have some other problems to delay their console:

 

- graphics look like 360, or not so much better

- they have been accused of being "more of the same"

- they cold reduce the Ps3 final price

- they could include some memory or power

- and the worst would be: they could be waiting for ninty to show all Revolution secrets so they could just use the copy/paste mode

 

But have 2 sure things in mind: 1- ps3 was scheduled for November launch some time ago. 2- Maybe they will have more major problems with the inmersion/vibration/dualshock topic. (still unconfirmed what’s going to happen with that thing)

 

And one last thing: we've been told by developers that they've been using USB dualshock controllers with the PS3 SDK because dualshock 3 is not yet finalized, so we could expect same button scheme for Ps3, nothing like the freehand controller.

 

Anyway, Sony is always using their best method: wait, see, and if successful, copy :P

 

Seeya and sorry 4 the English!

[Flaight]

I think it's rather a cop out to assume that people, who are speculating about Sony copying Nintendo, are paranoid.

 

The hardest part of development in this area is introducing a new idea. It's dangerous and prone to failure (virtual boy anyone?). It's so much easier to wait till something succeeds and build upon it. DCK's view on the logical functions is flawed, not because it's a lie, but because it's only a part of the big picture.

[Achilles]

Sony copied only logical, easy to implement functions of Nintendo's consoles. Those things weren't even invented by Nintendo, they were just late with the Nintendo 64 and advances allowed them to implement stuff like analogue sticks and rumble. Then Sony 'stole' them and improved over them, offering dual shoulder buttons, improved rumble and improved analogues. Sony innovated themselves with the Eyetoy and dancepads but people tend to forget that.

 

Look - because Nintendo made logical improvements on normal gaming hardware, which only made sense and only became affordable some years into the Playstation's lifetime doesn't mean that Sony will copy the Revolution controller because Sony always copies Nintendo. That just doesn't make sense.

 

They were late with the n64 so they decided to make a 3D Mario game that changed the way 3D adventure games were perceived, played, and from that point on, made. Oh and as an afterthought, because technology allowed them, they thought, 'hey why not chuck in analog thumbstick control that's never been done before on this type of game?' Oh and because now that motors were small enough to fit into the size of the N64 rumble pack and that advances in technology created a vacuum to produce greater interactivity with games, they came up with the Rumble Pack. Hell, if only they waited a little longer for the PS2 to come out, maybe they would have saved all that money on R&D and 'stole' as you VERY adequately put, those ideas from Sony instead. Genius. Better yet, they could have stolen the D-Pad, diamond shape button setup and even the shoulder buttons of the PS2 controller! Oh.. wait....

 

Be nice.

[Guest Jordan]

and improved analogues.

 

lmao...

You're joking right? The PS1/2 pads have terrible terrible analouge sticks. Incredibly inaccurate.

[DCK]

Do you think Sony could've showed up or kept on with the flawed D-pad? No. Those things were a brilliant move by Nintendo. They set a new standard for the gaming world by improving the game consoles. There's no way Sony (or Microsoft, or Sega who copied it just as bad but then again they aren't quite as evil, right?) could have showed up with the standard SNES type controller again.

 

This time Nintendo has taken another path. They can't improve the old way of consoles anymore so they invent a new way. If Sony copied the FHC they would go the new way, too. That means Sony could run the risk of losing their old market (which is pretty damn huge) while they don't know if the new market is going to work.

 

Sony will not copy the FHC.

 

lmao...

You're joking right? The PS1/2 pads have terrible terrible analouge sticks. Incredibly inaccurate.

From the PS1 perspective, the analogues easily beat the N64 stick that only lasted one week of Super Smash Brothers, leaving your thumb looking like you put it in a pencil sharpener.

[Achilles]

That's a good point you bring up DCK for Sony not to copy the Revmote. Although, is that a strong enough reason for Sony NOT to copy it. Sony has a huge userbase at the moment because they did better than their competitors in the last generation than what the other consoles did. They all offered the same interface with the same type of games. Differences in games were based more upon theme, genre etc etc rather than HOW the game was played. Just because the userbase of the PS2 is huge doesn't mean that this userbase won't flock to something else that may potentially change the way we play games. Of course, I'm referring to the Rev controller. Now, we know only as much as eachother as to how good or bad it may turn out, but just because it hasn't been proven doesn't mean that it won't be great. If Sony also sees the potential of this controller as much as Nintendo does, then would it not be in their best interest to make that controller standard on their console aswell? If that were the case, it's possible that they would copy the Revmote.

 

I think a small indication of how Sony sees this potential is in a tech demo of their very own. If we all remember the Eye-Toy ducks in the bath tub presentation, it shows the concept behind interactivity, of controlling on-screen objects in 3D space via an interface that is not so much an improvement, but a difference to the way we are used to. I'm not sure how accurate I would be to say that the very concept of the Revmote is to do exactly that. Of course, there are differences between the two that I needn't write down as I'm sure you're well aware of what they are, but it's the concept that Sony is no stranger to and is not afraid to explore. This indication I believe increases the probability of Sony copying the Revmote.

 

What I also find rather intrigueing, is that Sony showed us the PS3 controller before the Revmote was revealed. I understand that they have decided to re-design the controller, but isn't it funny how they're doing that and we haven't seen the controller since the unveiling of the Revmote? I dunno. Whatever.

[Pit-Jr]

One thing is for sure, motion detection is the future for gaming.

 

True. Nintendo may (or may not) do it solo this coming generation, but in 5 years, neither Sony or MS will dare try to release a standard controller.

[glucoseaddict]

Anybody who prefers the ps1/ps2 analogue sticks over the N64 one is bananas, imo.

[Hellfire]

Well the PS1/2 analogues came after N64 so they could improve, it's quite normal. Still the N64 analog is great considering it was the first one ever made and it certainly lasts long unlike DCK said. Comparing to the GC and XBOX analogues, Dual Shock analogues suck a lot.

[DCK]

Perhaps I just had bad N64 controllers

 

I found the N64 controller quite good but the analogue just kept breaking on me all the time. Especially when I got Super Smash Brothers - it cost me three controllers.

[gmanprime]

Perhaps I just had bad N64 controllers

 

I found the N64 controller quite good but the analogue just kept breaking on me all the time. Especially when I got Super Smash Brothers - it cost me three controllers.

 

First of all I don't think you played all that much. After a bit of gaming your thumbs become caloused to it.(I know you shouldn't have to have callous but it only takes about 3 hours a week of gaming to get it.)

 

Secondly when you did play you were problly very emotionally attached to steroids and couldn't help but beat you own mother or worse, abouse your analog stick.

 

Third, the first SSB along with most fighters(at the time) were better played with the d-pad anyway you crazy bafoon.

 

Sorry about the harshness

-Deep breath-

"I love that fresh ranting smell":hehe:

[Zicler]

They are delaying the controller because of Immersion. And if the appeal is denied, then they have to pay good money to immersion because of PS2 and PSone, and if they don't want to pay more to have a license from immersion they have to redesign the controller with a diferent vibration feedback. For a rev mote copy they need at least 4 years researching, and they don't own the company would made the gyros. Nintendo said that they have everything calculated to never be copyied by rivals.

[mike-zim]

GAMES. that is the reason why sony will not copy the FHC this gen. they already have games far into development. to now change the mapping for a new type of controller it would just be impossible if they are to meet their Nov'06 release date.

[goku21]

are there really gyros inside that fhc? I don´t think so! then there mustn´t be the sensors in front of your tv... The gyro-technique can measure the movement by itself...(perhaps for tilt-twist-recognition). But there must be some frequenzy-impuls-generator like a crystal-shard. The sensory bars detect these impulses to determine the location in space. the bluetooth is used for the other data that is send by and to the fhc...because as we all know a bluetooth dongle can be anywhere, theres no need for a sensory-bar

[DCK]

First of all I don't think you played all that much. After a bit of gaming your thumbs become caloused to it.(I know you shouldn't have to have callous but it only takes about 3 hours a week of gaming to get it.)

 

Secondly when you did play you were problly very emotionally attached to steroids and couldn't help but beat you own mother or worse, abouse your analog stick.

 

Third, the first SSB along with most fighters(at the time) were better played with the d-pad anyway you crazy bafoon.

Right <_<

 

Firstly - I did play it that much. Both Smash Bros games got me so addicted I played it every day for the year following the launch. The analogue didn't 'grow' on me - it's a damn tough piece of plastic and smashing it all the time around like you do in SSB isn't nice on your thumbs.

 

Second I'll just ignore for stupidness.

 

Third - you have never played Super Smash Bros have you? It's not a 'fighter' at all. It's a smasher.

[gmanprime]

Third - you have never played Super Smash Bros have you? It's not a 'fighter' at all. It's a smasher.

 

What the crap do you mean it wasn't a fighter. I don't think thier even is an official geanra "smasher". Anyway it dosn't matter becuase what I said in the first place still stands, with a little practice SSB is a far more engaging expierience while using the D-pad.

 

 

 

 

 

PS: You suck.... alot.

Ha ha I win the debate.

[Achilles]

They are delaying the controller because of Immersion. And if the appeal is denied, then they have to pay good money to immersion because of PS2 and PSone, and if they don't want to pay more to have a license from immersion they have to redesign the controller with a diferent vibration feedback. For a rev mote copy they need at least 4 years researching, and they don't own the company would made the gyros. Nintendo said that they have everything calculated to never be copyied by rivals.

 

My understanding is that the appeal has already been denied. I couldn't find any sources at this stage because my workplace doesn't allow me access to a great deal of sites. Out of curiosity, why would it take at least four years for them to develop such a control? The concept is the hard part to come up with, with the concept of the controller revealed, it comes down to making a control with the functions of the revmote. I understand that patents were filed and granted for the revmote, but patents don't always guarantee that the 'concept' of the revmote can't be emulated.

 

A point that someone mentioned earlier as to why the revmote wouldn't be copied is because of the games. Good point, it'll take time to redevelop games with the new control method if there were one. But, is it an impossibility? Is it something not achievable? I don't think so personally. Twilight Princess I think is evidence of this. Of course, in saying that, none of us know the extent to which TP will utilise the revmote. But even so, that's something to ponder, no?

[mike-zim]

i take the point of the Zelda adaptation but surely the zelda team knew about the FHC for alot longer than Sony and definately before any third parties do. they have had i would guess at atleast 6 months extra time to impliment a limited rev control system. imagine having to totally change the control system and build it from scratch. and to do it in (being generouse) a year. with the PS3 it is hard enough to develope for because of the power but to totally overhaul all the work that has been going on over the last year? i would say it is not imposible but it is highly impracticle and would be massively expensive.

[Achilles]

I agree with you completely there. BTW, Zicler was right in saying that Sony is waiting for the response on the appeal. There's another appeal if I'm not mistaken. Sorry about that Zicler.

 

Now, let's say that in terms of having to overhaul games development to take advantage of the controller they wouldn't have adequate time to fully implement the features into new games. I don't think this is as much an issue as it may seem, simply because changing the controller interface doesn't neccesarily mean changing an entire game. If a game in question was developed with the revmote in mind, then fair enough, they'd have to start from scratch. But if that were the case, obviously, they wouldn't have to start from scratch because it's already being developed using such an interface. This scenario would NOT apply to PS3 games in development at the moment, so, how does this relate to the possibility that Sony is copying the revmote? Well, lets take one genre as an example. FPSs. Let's say Unreal Tourney... they could make the game based on a conventional control pad, develop everything they needed to in terms of graphics, physics, sound etc. Then, if they were to change the control method to use a mouse and keyboard, would that take long? I understand that it's conception was based on mouse and keyboard, but the idea is that, it's merely changing the control method. Not changing the game. Relate that to the new control method that the revmote adapts, and to me it would seem that this process wouldn't take too long. If this is viable, I'm sure many of you here can relate that to other genres of games aswell.

 

I know there are many 'what if' scenarios stated above, but Sony even said themselves that this system was supposed to be around for 10 years. Realistic? Who knows? But having games that don't fully utilise the control or are based AROUND the new control of the revmote concept in the first year isn't a real big hit to Sony if they can at least get games to work well enough initially. Especially, if the revmote takes off to the potential that Nintendo sees. For Sony, it'll be an investment for the company, for the PS3, in the longevity, and ultimately, popularity and sales of the PS3.

 

Whatever it is, I just have this feeling that Sony has somewhat of a surprise up their sleeves. To me, it seems it would be the control method. All I know is Nintendo should really get the kudos and recognition they deserve without having to fight an uphill battle in a war they never wanted to be in. Or in this case, a naval battle in their unpolluted blue ocean.

[Flaight]

are there really gyros inside that fhc? I don´t think so! then there mustn´t be the sensors in front of your tv... The gyro-technique can measure the movement by itself...(perhaps for tilt-twist-recognition). But there must be some frequenzy-impuls-generator like a crystal-shard. The sensory bars detect these impulses to determine the location in space. the bluetooth is used for the other data that is send by and to the fhc...because as we all know a bluetooth dongle can be anywhere, theres no need for a sensory-bar

 

Can someone expand on this? I'm wondering whether there's a possibility that Sony may be adding a new component inside, which allows such mechanism for FHC in the future (though the PS3-mote itself may not come out for few years).

 

Is there an element that the console itself needs to be "ready" for such an addition? I can't answer that myself as I know next to nothing about the science behind revmote.

 

On one hand there's NES lightgun (hurrah!), on the other hand there's this revmote. (btw how did NES lightgun work?)

[Pestneb]

On one hand there's NES lightgun (hurrah!), on the other hand there's this revmote. (btw how did NES lightgun work?)

 

I'm sure there'll be something in wikipedia / search google, but it basically took a picture of the tv screen, I'm not sure exactly how it picked up whether you had hit a duck or not, however, apparently the game will only work in 480 res. unsure of whether it would work on just 480i or also 480p..

anyway, basically it wouldn't work on 720/1080 resolutions.